After 5 years, I created a thief and I'm learning thief and engineer right now.

[ybintell.1984]

As I've already stated in this thread (https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63342/im-getting-fed-up-with-seeing-other-classes-generating-20-stacks-of-might-without-having-to-combo#latest), I got tired of being beaten by other classes that don't have to sacrifice any tankiness to get damage because they can generate and maintain 15+ stacks of might without having to blast/leap finish within combo fields. I am tired of fighting Warriors who run at me with 25 stacks of might immediately upon entering combat. I'm tired of being beaten and made to feel unskilled by power necros maintaining 20 stacks of might without comboing. I'm tired of being beaten by tanky classes that also do more damage than me, a scholar profession wearing light armour.

 

I am a scholar class wearing light armour. I am *ENTITLED* to do more damage. *I* am the one who should be generating 25 stacks of might at the press of a button. Certainly *NOT* a Warrior.

 

I'm tired of being the only scholar profession that does no damage. I'm tired of being the only scholar profession with no builtin surivability. I'm tired of having to micromanage too many aspects of my class in order to perform on par with other classes that have lower cooldowns on their critical skills and much faster casting times. I'm tired of theorycrafting new builds all the time.

 

@"Cellofrag.4057" discovered the Rune of Evasion build, but I had already theorycrafted it at least 6 months ago and had been using it and I discarded it because I needed more damage. I crafted Rune of Evasion long before Cellofrag discovered it. Anybody telling me that I haven't done my homework is wrong.

 

Elementalist is a worthless class. Let's stop being delusional. I'm learning thief. Elementalist has been trash for 5 years. Nothing is going to change. This video (

) was made over 5 years ago, and Elementalist is still trash. They don't care. Stop feeling hope or thinking it's going to change. Elementalist is going to be the underclass forever.

 

I'm done being the loser, I want to win and I want to feel good and I want to have the experience of knowing that when I spent 50 minutes playing yesterday, at least 60-70% of that was at least spent winning. If I'm going to be wasting time on a video game, I should at least be winning in that time that I put into the game. What's the point in playing a video game if you're losing in real life and *ALSO* losing in the game too? That's just dumb. I'm not dumb.

[Justine.6351]

You will probably want to play holosmith as it will have enough buttons like ele to not feel one dimensional.

[Aigleborgne.2981]

I share your pain. However, I play ele because it is more fun than other professions. Winning is my goal, but I don't mind to have a low ratio as long as I get fun while playing.

I remembered loosing all my games at starcraft 1 release because terrans were UP at that time. It didn't stop me from playing a loosing race because I enjoyed every games I lost.

 

If winning is all that matter, you should pick top pvp professions or play offline games. Even if ele were good, you could still face more skilled players and loose no matter what.

 

 

[Jski.6180]

> @"Aigleborgne.2981" said:

> I share your pain. However, I play ele because it is more fun than other professions. Winning is my goal, but I don't mind to have a low ratio as long as I get fun while playing.

> I remembered loosing all my games at starcraft 1 release because terrans were UP at that time. It didn't stop me from playing a loosing race because I enjoyed every games I lost.

>

> If winning is all that matter, you should pick top pvp professions or play offline games. Even if ele were good, you could still face more skilled players and loose no matter what.

>

>

 

That fine until you have to play with other ppl who dont want eles any more. Its nice to just 1v1 for fun not to always win but your not 1v1 your playing with a group. If your on ele after the countess nerfs your more harmful for the group then good. You are actively "meme" ppl by playing ele.

[Phoenix the One.4071]

The problem with Cellofrags build is it is only good at trolling points..

And due to him being so skilled it seems better than it is.

One mistake and you are dead.

 

I would like the minor master to grant 200 vitality, and 10% of your total vitality is converted to power and toughness.

 

The Minor Grand master could then inherit the old minor master.

Than would grant Weaver a bit more breathing room.

 

Masters fortitude could be replaced with Masters touch: After using your dual skill you can access to your main elements 3rd skill for 5 sec. Increase the range of dual skill by 100ft.

[Fortus.6175]

Troll self healing builds are the thing holding ele's back from proper buffs. We wont get a working damage build until we further nerf self sustain. FA got further nerfed by removing tempest defense, making that trait line even worse, so now we are even more pidgeon-holed into water/arcane.

 

I still find ele's fun, and yes I have to constantly suffer bashing and harrasment from my team for choosing to play staff tempest or D/D tempest, I'm getting the heat for it when the onus is on ANet to fix whats broken, not for the players to give up the class they have played for over 80% of their time. And quite honestly? It is hard to blame those people, everyone wants to win and dont want handicaps on their team.

 

Bring ele's class fantasy back; **DAMAGE DEALER**, not a troll point staller with no real contribution to their team, outdone by other decappers that can actually kill their opponents if left alone, while still contributing to objectives and teamfights.

[Alatar.7364]

Just came here to say that you did not discover anything about Rune of Evasion, it was 1xcondi Clear every 10 seconds on Dodge roll. The new reworked rune of evasion (the useful one) was a multiple (up to **all**) condi clear for every dodge skill, not just 1xper dodge roll.

 

Claiming you discovered the Rune of Evasion build six months ago is silly, as it was **literally complete garbage** so nobody used it and it did not work at all the same way as it did before 1icd which made it actually useful.

[ybintell.1984]

> @"Alatar.7364" said:

> Just came here to say that you did not discover anything about Rune of Evasion, it was 1xcondi Clear every 10 seconds on Dodge roll. The new reworked rune of evasion (the useful one) was a multiple (up to **all**) condi clear for every dodge skill, not just 1xper dodge roll.

>

> Claiming you discovered the Rune of Evasion build six months ago is silly, as it was **literally complete garbage** so nobody used it and it did not work at all the same way as it did before 1icd which made it actually useful.

 

And yet I crafted the runes and tried them out either way and used that build back when it granted swiftness after dodgeroll because it still made sense back then as well because swiftness cleanses conditions with the weaver grandmaster trait.

 

Sit back down.

[Alatar.7364]

> @"ybintell.1984" said:

> > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > Just came here to say that you did not discover anything about Rune of Evasion, it was 1xcondi Clear every 10 seconds on Dodge roll. The new reworked rune of evasion (the useful one) was a multiple (up to **all**) condi clear for every dodge skill, not just 1xper dodge roll.

> >

> > Claiming you discovered the Rune of Evasion build six months ago is silly, as it was **literally complete garbage** so nobody used it and it did not work at all the same way as it did before 1icd which made it actually useful.

>

> And yet I crafted the runes and tried them out either way and used that build back when it granted swiftness after dodgeroll because it still made sense back then as well because swiftness cleanses conditions with the weaver grandmaster trait.

>

> Sit back down.

 

You're missing the point.

You didn't theorycraft the Rune of Evasion build at all because it was before the Sigils Rework so it literally could not exist.

Pretending that you "invented" it long before someone else is blatant lie because you took something that had nothing to do with the actual Evasion build and was completely useless (everybody knew it).

 

"I invented a build that cleanses one condi every ten seconds so it must be the same as a build based on different mechanic that cleanses all conditions on any evading skill, so logical I must have invented an unknown build 6 months from now!" Really... once again, everyone knew about the rune and nobody used it because it was useless, don't try to take credit from people who made an actually useful build when the rune was reworked.

[ybintell.1984]

> @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > @"ybintell.1984" said:

> > > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > Just came here to say that you did not discover anything about Rune of Evasion, it was 1xcondi Clear every 10 seconds on Dodge roll. The new reworked rune of evasion (the useful one) was a multiple (up to **all**) condi clear for every dodge skill, not just 1xper dodge roll.

> > >

> > > Claiming you discovered the Rune of Evasion build six months ago is silly, as it was **literally complete garbage** so nobody used it and it did not work at all the same way as it did before 1icd which made it actually useful.

> >

> > And yet I crafted the runes and tried them out either way and used that build back when it granted swiftness after dodgeroll because it still made sense back then as well because swiftness cleanses conditions with the weaver grandmaster trait.

> >

> > Sit back down.

>

> You're missing the point.

> You didn't theorycraft the Rune of Evasion build at all because it was before the Sigils Rework so it literally could not exist.

> Pretending that you "invented" it long before someone else is blatant lie because you took something that had nothing to do with the actual Evasion build and was completely useless (everybody knew it).

>

> "I invented a build that cleanses one condi every ten seconds so it must be the same as a build based on different mechanic that cleanses all conditions on any evading skill, so logical I must have invented an unknown build 6 months from now!" Really... once again, everyone knew about the rune and nobody used it because it was useless, don't try to take credit from people who made an actually useful build when the rune was reworked.

 

No, it wasn't useless: It was a consistent extra condition cleanse every 10 seconds without having to switch into water. It was more than a good idea. The fact that there was a stronger version of it due to a subsequent change doesn't change the fact that I **DID** theorycraft it and I **DID** the research on all the runes, and I **LOOKED** for synergetic runes and I thought hard about how to make my weaver more viable, and I **found** it, and I put in the effort and **TRIED** it.

 

So yes, I absolutely **DID** theorycraft it on my own, 6 months ago. Subsequent changes don't nullify the fact that it absolutely was a condi cleanse; the fact that the condi cleansing became stronger with a subsequent patch doesn't cancel the thrust of my argument: I have personally put in the effort into thinking about how to make my weaver work.

 

So once again: get off my back and sit back down.

[Alatar.7364]

> @"ybintell.1984" said:

> > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > @"ybintell.1984" said:

> > > > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > > Just came here to say that you did not discover anything about Rune of Evasion, it was 1xcondi Clear every 10 seconds on Dodge roll. The new reworked rune of evasion (the useful one) was a multiple (up to **all**) condi clear for every dodge skill, not just 1xper dodge roll.

> > > >

> > > > Claiming you discovered the Rune of Evasion build six months ago is silly, as it was **literally complete garbage** so nobody used it and it did not work at all the same way as it did before 1icd which made it actually useful.

> > >

> > > And yet I crafted the runes and tried them out either way and used that build back when it granted swiftness after dodgeroll because it still made sense back then as well because swiftness cleanses conditions with the weaver grandmaster trait.

> > >

> > > Sit back down.

> >

> > You're missing the point.

> > You didn't theorycraft the Rune of Evasion build at all because it was before the Sigils Rework so it literally could not exist.

> > Pretending that you "invented" it long before someone else is blatant lie because you took something that had nothing to do with the actual Evasion build and was completely useless (everybody knew it).

> >

> > "I invented a build that cleanses one condi every ten seconds so it must be the same as a build based on different mechanic that cleanses all conditions on any evading skill, so logical I must have invented an unknown build 6 months from now!" Really... once again, everyone knew about the rune and nobody used it because it was useless, don't try to take credit from people who made an actually useful build when the rune was reworked.

>

 

> So once again: get off my back and sit back down.

 

Cute that you're taking it so personally.

I don't think you know what theorycraft is.

[ybintell.1984]

@"Alatar.7364" I don't really know what you're expecting. I made a fairly frustrated, bitter thread, and I explained that I've played this class for 5 years, and I've tried tonnes of different builds, runes, etc.

 

I mention that included in the set of things I've theorycrafted and tried is the rune of evasion build which I had theorycrafted on my own and tried, before the rework, to see how good it would be. I made this statement as an example of the amount of thought I put into the class and trying to make it work.

 

You decide to latch onto that and make it your opportunity to look cool and edgy by pointing out the obvious: that the reworked Rune of Evasion effect was stronger than the pre-rework Rune of Evasion effect.

 

What kind of reaction were you expecting from me? Warmth?

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Rune of evasion in the mender sword build has been on metabattle before patch, and before they suggest Rune of Leadership etc.

Because it also gave Fury and crippled enemies.

 

Edit : And I'm also a bit bothered by people who claims they "invented" thing in GW2. Mostly when it's just a rune or a trait change. At the very best they were the first to use it or to popularize, but people would discover by themself too.

I change runes, sigil and amulet every day, I try different specs too, I don't feel like I'm creating new things. I mean there are 7 specs, 3 at once, some specs, traits and combination are more obvious, more effective; there are a lot of runes and sigils, but when you specialize or even if you're trying a niche build (like Aura, or Burning...) it restricts the choice ... there are not that many possibilities. Even if you discover builds by yourself it's pretty sure others already have, or will too. After that it's just a question of preference and skillful.

[PrZone.4753]

> @"ybintell.1984" said:

> As I've already stated in this thread (https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63342/im-getting-fed-up-with-seeing-other-classes-generating-20-stacks-of-might-without-having-to-combo#latest), I got tired of being beaten by other classes that don't have to sacrifice any tankiness to get damage because they can generate and maintain 15+ stacks of might without having to blast/leap finish within combo fields. I am tired of fighting Warriors who run at me with 25 stacks of might immediately upon entering combat. I'm tired of being beaten and made to feel unskilled by power necros maintaining 20 stacks of might without comboing. I'm tired of being beaten by tanky classes that also do more damage than me, a scholar profession wearing light armour.

>

> I am a scholar class wearing light armour. I am *ENTITLED* to do more damage. *I* am the one who should be generating 25 stacks of might at the press of a button. Certainly *NOT* a Warrior.

>

> I'm tired of being the only scholar profession that does no damage. I'm tired of being the only scholar profession with no builtin surivability. I'm tired of having to micromanage too many aspects of my class in order to perform on par with other classes that have lower cooldowns on their critical skills and much faster casting times. I'm tired of theorycrafting new builds all the time.

>

> @"Cellofrag.4057" discovered the Rune of Evasion build, but I had already theorycrafted it at least 6 months ago and had been using it and I discarded it because I needed more damage. I crafted Rune of Evasion long before Cellofrag discovered it. Anybody telling me that I haven't done my homework is wrong.

>

> Elementalist is a worthless class. Let's stop being delusional. I'm learning thief. Elementalist has been trash for 5 years. Nothing is going to change. This video (

) was made over 5 years ago, and Elementalist is still trash. They don't care. Stop feeling hope or thinking it's going to change. Elementalist is going to be the underclass forever.

>

> I'm done being the loser, I want to win and I want to feel good and I want to have the experience of knowing that when I spent 50 minutes playing yesterday, at least 60-70% of that was at least spent winning. If I'm going to be wasting time on a video game, I should at least be winning in that time that I put into the game. What's the point in playing a video game if you're losing in real life and *ALSO* losing in the game too? That's just dumb. I'm not dumb.

 

made over 5 years ago and still trash? there was a time in which DD cele ele was king.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

Could't agree more. I get twice the health and more damage in normal gameplay as a revenant with a similar playstyle and I don't have to deal with the terrible balance. And I'm talking about revenant that has like 3 "meta" builds for all its gamemodes.

[Infusion.7149]

Honestly I would go with revenant or engineer rather than thief , maybe even firebrand (nerfed recently though). Thief is rather skill spam due to initiative mechanic, whereas revenant and engineer get their extra skills from kits/toolkit plus legends respectively. Revenant has its own problem in that utilities are rigid in nature but at least you get 2 legends.

[ybintell.1984]

> @"Infusion.7149" said:

> Honestly I would go with revenant or engineer rather than thief , maybe even firebrand (nerfed recently though). Thief is rather skill spam due to initiative mechanic, whereas revenant and engineer get their extra skills from kits/toolkit plus legends respectively. Revenant has its own problem in that utilities are rigid in nature but at least you get 2 legends.

 

I ended up joining the S o u l t r a I n

[Axl.8924]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> > @"Aigleborgne.2981" said:

> > I share your pain. However, I play ele because it is more fun than other professions. Winning is my goal, but I don't mind to have a low ratio as long as I get fun while playing.

> > I remembered loosing all my games at starcraft 1 release because terrans were UP at that time. It didn't stop me from playing a loosing race because I enjoyed every games I lost.

> >

> > If winning is all that matter, you should pick top pvp professions or play offline games. Even if ele were good, you could still face more skilled players and loose no matter what.

> >

> >

>

> That fine until you have to play with other ppl who dont want eles any more. Its nice to just 1v1 for fun not to always win but your not 1v1 your playing with a group. If your on ele after the countess nerfs your more harmful for the group then good. You are actively "meme" ppl by playing ele.

 

does that go for only spvp or spvp and WVW?

[Jski.6180]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > @"Aigleborgne.2981" said:

> > > I share your pain. However, I play ele because it is more fun than other professions. Winning is my goal, but I don't mind to have a low ratio as long as I get fun while playing.

> > > I remembered loosing all my games at starcraft 1 release because terrans were UP at that time. It didn't stop me from playing a loosing race because I enjoyed every games I lost.

> > >

> > > If winning is all that matter, you should pick top pvp professions or play offline games. Even if ele were good, you could still face more skilled players and loose no matter what.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > That fine until you have to play with other ppl who dont want eles any more. Its nice to just 1v1 for fun not to always win but your not 1v1 your playing with a group. If your on ele after the countess nerfs your more harmful for the group then good. You are actively "meme" ppl by playing ele.

>

> does that go for only spvp or spvp and WVW?

 

Both i would say as spvp is 5 ppl (worst here) and wvw 50 or more (not as bad and a lot less control but it will get worst soon) and no one likes to be left out in the cold of groups when your not the right build or the right classed needed.

 

[steki.1478]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > @"Aigleborgne.2981" said:

> > > I share your pain. However, I play ele because it is more fun than other professions. Winning is my goal, but I don't mind to have a low ratio as long as I get fun while playing.

> > > I remembered loosing all my games at starcraft 1 release because terrans were UP at that time. It didn't stop me from playing a loosing race because I enjoyed every games I lost.

> > >

> > > If winning is all that matter, you should pick top pvp professions or play offline games. Even if ele were good, you could still face more skilled players and loose no matter what.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > That fine until you have to play with other ppl who dont want eles any more. Its nice to just 1v1 for fun not to always win but your not 1v1 your playing with a group. If your on ele after the countess nerfs your more harmful for the group then good. You are actively "meme" ppl by playing ele.

>

> does that go for only spvp or spvp and WVW?

 

Ele still does pretty well in large wvw blobs (dps weaver or heal temp), especially when you have more of them (but not too many). Roaming is pretty sad on ele though, unless you're playing minstrel temp with a group.

[Jski.6180]

> @"steki.1478" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > > @"Aigleborgne.2981" said:

> > > > I share your pain. However, I play ele because it is more fun than other professions. Winning is my goal, but I don't mind to have a low ratio as long as I get fun while playing.

> > > > I remembered loosing all my games at starcraft 1 release because terrans were UP at that time. It didn't stop me from playing a loosing race because I enjoyed every games I lost.

> > > >

> > > > If winning is all that matter, you should pick top pvp professions or play offline games. Even if ele were good, you could still face more skilled players and loose no matter what.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > That fine until you have to play with other ppl who dont want eles any more. Its nice to just 1v1 for fun not to always win but your not 1v1 your playing with a group. If your on ele after the countess nerfs your more harmful for the group then good. You are actively "meme" ppl by playing ele.

> >

> > does that go for only spvp or spvp and WVW?

>

> Ele still does pretty well in large wvw blobs (dps weaver or heal temp), especially when you have more of them (but not too many). Roaming is pretty sad on ele though, unless you're playing minstrel temp with a group.

 

Its competing with rev and now that rev can support 10 targets and do dmg at the same time and is much harder to kill keeps ele sub par in wvw blobs. Wvw meta is 3 classes and one elite skill. Healing tempest is just not there yet no stab support realty holds it back. Roaming bruiser builds are not bad just sub par that just ele right now every thing is sub par and its lacking may effects.

[steki.1478]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > > > @"Aigleborgne.2981" said:

> > > > > I share your pain. However, I play ele because it is more fun than other professions. Winning is my goal, but I don't mind to have a low ratio as long as I get fun while playing.

> > > > > I remembered loosing all my games at starcraft 1 release because terrans were UP at that time. It didn't stop me from playing a loosing race because I enjoyed every games I lost.

> > > > >

> > > > > If winning is all that matter, you should pick top pvp professions or play offline games. Even if ele were good, you could still face more skilled players and loose no matter what.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > That fine until you have to play with other ppl who dont want eles any more. Its nice to just 1v1 for fun not to always win but your not 1v1 your playing with a group. If your on ele after the countess nerfs your more harmful for the group then good. You are actively "meme" ppl by playing ele.

> > >

> > > does that go for only spvp or spvp and WVW?

> >

> > Ele still does pretty well in large wvw blobs (dps weaver or heal temp), especially when you have more of them (but not too many). Roaming is pretty sad on ele though, unless you're playing minstrel temp with a group.

>

> Its competing with rev and now that rev can support 10 targets and do dmg at the same time and is much harder to kill keeps ele sub par in wvw blobs. Wvw meta is 3 classes and one elite skill. Healing tempest is just not there yet no stab support realty holds it back. Roaming bruiser builds are not bad just sub par that just ele right now every thing is sub par and its lacking may effects.

 

Rev cant compete in choke fights with ele, 2 eles can wipe almost whole squad in any lords room/bridge. Just like it cant compete when you have 5-10 eles for open field, constantly dropping meteors. As well as some weird terrain spots/ledges where revs can't hit their CoR. It's just more reliable because damage comes from short cd skills, but it has less damage potential making them fairly balanced in comparison.

 

Rev being able to support 10 people would mean that you can swap a few revs for eles because you don't need to overstack same 3 boons for no reason.

 

You don't play tempest for stab anyway. Just like you don't play herald/scrapper for stab either. They are heal/cleanse bots with some utility on the side. None of them are sub par, they are just not needed in big amounts. 2-3 per 50 is usually enough because they can affect more than 5 people unlike fb. Tempest is also the only support besides chrono who has actual CC.

 

Just because it's not stacked in every group and not providing stab, doesn't mean it's sub par. Druid is sub par, the healers I mentioned are pretty strong.

[Dace.8173]

I can't take any complaint that tries to position themselves as more worthless than Necromancer seriously. I mean, come on ......Elementalist has had longer stints at the top. Elementalist may be going through some rough times right now but let's not blow it out of proportion.

[steki.1478]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> I can't take any complaint that tries to position themselves as more worthless than Necromancer seriously. I mean, come on ......Elementalist has had longer stints at the top. Elementalist may be going through some rough times right now but let's not blow it out of proportion.

 

Noticed recently that every sub is full with "this class is anet's least favorite child" posts. When you see mesmer mains complaining how their class sucks, you've seen everything.

 

Necro is broken in wvw/pvp but needs babysitter. Ele has op sustain in pvp but does no damage. Every class has something broken and something worthless, there's no point of comparing the opposite ones from different classes, which is quite common sadly.

 

It would be same like druid complaining how he's useless in wvw when soulbeast can kill players with 2-3 autos.

[Jski.6180]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> I can't take any complaint that tries to position themselves as more worthless than Necromancer seriously. I mean, come on ......Elementalist has had longer stints at the top. Elementalist may be going through some rough times right now but let's not blow it out of proportion.

 

Has not been top for years now its been bottom and its only getting worst. Ele was topped because there was not as much boon spam back then but now there is so you need to be part of that boon spam (ele is not) or part of the counter (ele is not that too). It use to be ele has the best protection support in the game and it was never perma. Now its a joke to not have perma protection lol.