Does anet listen to the pvp community?

[Archer.4362]

60 post more or less published new and anet responds only to one, it is a wonder what the pvp community cares about.

[Ziggityzog.7389]

Short answer No.

 

Long answer is pvp failed when there was lack of diversity with game modes then forcing players into a wintrade wars with duos and lack of competitive pvp without doing a major overhaul. So instead of improving pvp all resources are put into making every update have shiny new buyable skins, some pve stuff and once every year or so a major pvp update. besides that resources are spent on a "Racing game" that is a flop like all the ideas with a pvp side in gw2.

 

Besides some TDM maps that would have helped but are made and left to die in a random area and never be used from the start. Nothing much new in 4 years.

[Fortus.6175]

As much as I like to vent out, we need to keep in mind one thing; devs are people and whether they are passionate about a certain mode or not, it means they have biases, as well as goals and hopes. I'm willing to bet no dev wants any mode to be purposely bad, or neglected, rather than thinking there is some evil scheme at the hands of devs, we have to understand that PvP is difficult to balance and it is near impossible to "please everyone", with that being said, I think what we are missing right now are resources, not as in only dev resources, but rather a new system for figuring out how to evaluate how certain classes/builds are doing, with some community involvement.

 

Anet invested into sPvP esports as some point, which unfortunately did not work at the time for several factors;

 

- They hadn't grown and promoted PvP too much before that, half of my guild didn't even know it was going on at the time!

 

- We are now closer to a more balanced state, but back then the game was in worse shape. Sure, we have outliers right now like soulbeast/holo/mirage/spellbreaker, but back then it was only 1-2 hard DPS, 1 mesmer portal and 2-3 bunkers. That is neither fun to play agaisnt, nor fun to watch.

 

- Esports scene was still in the "early" stage, dominated mostly by spectator-friendly LoL and CS:GO, Overwatch faced similar problems on its first 2 years and it wasn't until they completely revamped their spectator mode that they started getting some traction. MMO's are not know for bringing in a crowd, although I still strongly believe GW2 does have the tools now to make it, if they promote the game and the game mode!

 

Overall I do think that Anet cares, but they gave it a try in a bad moment, there was a chance in leadership and I can guarantee you that internally they are trying to push PvP again, given our _just slightly_ faster cadence on releases, but since the previous investment didn't work, they are probably still apprehensive into doing such a big investment. I think what the mode needs is the community to show ANet PvP can and will work, but we might need to take the initiative.

[Apolo.5942]

No, many of the worst pvp and wvw issues could be solved by implementing runes/sigils tailored specifically for those modes.

 

Like superior rune of the world v worlder...

(1): +25 toughness

(2): +25 vitality

(3): +50 toughness

(4): +50 vitality

(5): +100 toughness

(6): Reduce damage taken from players by X%.

 

Make the X relevant enough and you can normalize player bonuses and damage by tailoring the environment through runes, it would literally have no impact on pve because other bonuses would be better.

 

It takes very little effort to implement something like this, they simply dont want or care enough to do it.

 

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> Does anet listen to the pvp community?

Listen? Sure.

 

Lack of response and lack of the response desired by any particular poster (or even 60 such posters) has nothing to do with whether we've been heard. And, having been heard, there's no guarantee that ANet agrees and even when they do agree with the issue, there's no guarantee that they don't have a different solution in mind.

 

****

As a reminder, [here's one developer recommendations for how they want to see feedback](http://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/157238832062/i-remember-your-52080-rule-and-it-was-an-awesome):

 

* Speak for yourself

* Speak honestly. Avoid hyperbole.

* Speak about problems. Don’t propose solutions.

* Speak to a comrade, not an enemy

* Speak with brevity

* Speak without expectations

[Archer.4362]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > Does anet listen to the pvp community?

> Listen? Sure.

>

> Lack of response and lack of the response desired by any particular poster (or even 60 such posters) has nothing to do with whether we've been heard. And, having been heard, there's no guarantee that ANet agrees and even when they do agree with the issue, there's no guarantee that they don't have a different solution in mind.

>

> ****

> As a reminder, [here's one developer recommendations for how they want to see feedback](http://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/157238832062/i-remember-your-52080-rule-and-it-was-an-awesome):

>

> * Speak for yourself

> * Speak honestly. Avoid hyperbole.

> * Speak about problems. Don’t propose solutions.

> * Speak to a comrade, not an enemy

> * Speak with brevity

> * Speak without expectations

 

 

then of the 60 new post, does not any deserve an answer?

[Apolo.5942]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> Don’t propose solutions.

 

Very telling...

 

[Vieux P.1238]

At this point, it does not matter if they do or not. In the end, They will pay for it.

Everybody is waiting for the most anticipated MMO of 2019 which i will not say it's

name for fear of reprisal.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Apolo.5942" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > Don’t propose solutions.

>

> Very telling...

>

 

The actual quote is:

> Speak about problems. Don’t propose solutions.

 

And the quote isn't necessarily from an ANet dev; it's from the blog (link above).

 

The point is that it's more helpful to your interests to explain simply & clearly what the issue is, rather than attempting to solve it without knowing the constraints under which the studio has to operate.

 

> @"Archer.4362"

> then of the 60 new post, does not any deserve an answer?

Deserving of an answer? I think that largely depends on the post. Many are just rants and there's no possible response that would satisfy.

 

Regardless, the question a business has to answer is "how much time should developers spend talking about the game versus how much should they spend developing the game?" Unless they hire someone intimate with balancing to speak to us full time for a week or three every balance patch, there's simply no way to have a helpful conversation. Balance isn't about whether this class or that class can do this job or that; it's about whether the game is balanced overall.

 

****

Both responses miss the other recommendations, which are meant to be considered together, especially: don't expect anything in particular and treat the devs like a teammate (not like an opponent).

[phokus.8934]

> @"Apolo.5942" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > Don’t propose solutions.

>

> Very telling...

>

 

It's ANet telling us that they know better. Which, based off of their balances changes, they don't. Grant it, some of the ideas proposed are pure ludicrous but those are overtly obvious.

[Ziggityzog.7389]

After being a loyal customer and vet player since gw1. If things arent just more then duo circlequest come February when Anthem comes out then ill have to ditch guild wars till a new expansion with a pvp update or just a new game like gw1 4k remastered or gw3.

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

If you expect nothing you won't be disappointed.

 

See them as salesman and yourself as consumer and maaaybe you'll feel slightly better. The forum may seem like a good communication place but its just part of the image, in truth they're not here to make friends. Unfortunately PvP is not their main source of income and so their focus won't be entertaining PvP crowd.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

It's a good thing they don't honestly. Most of the ideas presented here are, frankly, quite terrible.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

> @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> It's a good thing they don't honestly. Most of the ideas presented here are, frankly, quite terrible.

 

That’s an understatement.

[Fortus.6175]

> @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> It's a good thing they don't honestly. Most of the ideas presented here are, frankly, quite terrible.

 

I have seen changes being proposed here that have made it live. Specifically remember asking for staff fire 4 to have longer range a few of years ago, and they delivered. Now, I wont say it was all thanks to me because I'm sure that had been proposed before, but it happened a couple of months after my thread caught traction on the ele subforum, so there is a chance.

 

I have also proposed changing staff air 3 and staff earth 5 to ignore Y axis (since any bump up or down, or drop on the floor will basically count as distance, as well as drops make the skill disappear, effectively making the skill useless) and to travel faster (since it literally misses if the person is not even consciously strafing to make it miss), or better yet, behave more like ranger's LB 4.

 

I have also proposed changing the tech for the grandmaster in fire; Blinding Ashes, since the ability only affects the first and closest target and has no ICD per target, making AoE blinds incredibly inconvenient if a clone/pet/minion is closer to you than the target you have targeted.

 

Some suggestions are QoL, rather than your "typical" " Delete Y cuz I dont like it and I dont care about those that play it". Having an attitude of "we know better" or "you think you want it but you dont" has never really worked for other games, players can have good critical reasoning skills and be able to pinpoints areas of concern, it might help devs decipher or make it easier to arrive at the root of to the "problem".

 

And in fact I do remember reading here in this very forums a dev comment somewhere saying this: " The more information the better, dont just say what you dont like, say what you would like changed so that we can better understand where you are coming from and how you see the issue" Im paraphrasing but thats what I took from that post. I'm sure they appreciate people putting thoughts into their arguments rather than flail their arms around spewing dislikes and attacks.

[Dahkeus.8243]

Yes, but they don't always agree with the community, which is why so many here say "no".

[MiGFiD.1760]

I think the history of GW2's PvP plays a lot like the Human Gods of Tyria: They were there and had given PvP a lot of attention before (e-sports and tourneys), but ultimately left for another project or something (PvE and the likes).

 

I'm sure they lurk the forums and watch a few videos regarding the state of the game's PvP. I'm also sure they have a plan, but lack the resources to execute it.

[Simonoly.4352]

In terms of balance concern posts, the majority are from players making terrible nerf suggestions based purely on the last thing that beat them in a competitive PvP mode. So no, I don't think Anet is particularly bothered by what is being discussed.

[Solori.6025]

> @"Simonoly.4352" said:

> In terms of balance concern posts, the majority are from players making terrible nerf suggestions based purely on the last thing that beat them in a competitive PvP mode. So no, I don't think Anet is particularly bothered by what is being discussed.

 

I would say Anet has a really bad habit of listening to the people that cry the loudest.

Post from another thread puts it best

> > > @"Spartacus.3192" said:

> > > So when people say mesmer is ANET's favorite class, they're not kidding.

> >

> > I would say ANet's favorite ~~class~~ profession is non of the 9, it's the forums' baddies.

> > "Elusive Mind is op" (which all mesmers warned before PoF released)

> > ANet deleted EM from game

> >

> > "Look at how much evade uptime mirage has!"

> > ANet - Vigor nerfed to oblivion, rune of adventurer/sigil of energy nerfed

> >

> > "Portal needs to go, it's so op"

> > ANet - Portal deleted

> >

> > "Gosh BF needs to be tonedown!"

> > ANet - BF nerfed

> >

> > "Are you blind ANet? Power mesmer is so op, 100-0 in one sec!"

> > Power block, Mental Anguish and Confunding Suggestions nerfed.

> >

> > This are all true and you can look for the complains just before the nerf arrived on forums.

> >

> > And there are many more examples, feel free to ask for them.

>

>

This is also a trend with

Warrior complaints.( full counter repeatedly nerfed, nerfs to warrior sustain and damage)

Holosmith complaints (nerfs to damage and most recently elixer s)and

Thief complaints ( nerfs to deaths judgement, malice bonuses and lead attacks)

Anet has a bad habit of looking at people that cry the loudest for feedback. Look at the archives, before every nerf. Someone drowns themselves in tears.

 

 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Yes, it does, it's one of the reasons of the awful balance state at the game.

They should put someone capable of not kneeling before cries and good at identifying issues at charge of balance (looking at you Izzy).

[sephiroth.4217]

Everything is ducked up when they listen to the community...

 

Just take the almighty solo queue for example, while a LOT of us were happy playing the game with friends there were unhappy players here demanding a change, Anet listened and since then the playerbase has shrunk so low that not even the match maker works anymore and to make it even worse, it drew in a bunch of toxic solo players who put way too much emotion into an arbitrary number.

[gw niko.1049]

I played the game since beta and almost only pvp.

The whole "original"-pvp-community, who played the game like the first 2 years, is gone and that not for nothing.

 

Even all famous pvp players who ever played the game are gone by now. Like Helseth ect.

Anet totaly fcked up pvp and from like 1 1/2years after launch, it has always only been getting worse.

 

NO. I by myself wrote like about 3-4 posts about problems in pvp and I watched the forums for some time and there where many post addressing the very same problems, even today.

They never listent, never communicated and never cared shit about cometetiv pvp.

[gw niko.1049]

I´m telling you it´s useless. There will either be a MIRICAL happening and a 180deree change in pvp or NOTHING positiv in that matter.

Alone because of the xPack-classes, that are so fck OP compared to the core, it only can be changed by a 180deree change and no little patch will fix this anymore.

 

But seriously. Don´t expect anything at this point.

 

If you are interested in good pvp, you can only hope for a new MMORPG to come in the next 2 years.

[vesica tempestas.1563]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > Does anet listen to the pvp community?

> Listen? Sure.

>

> Lack of response and lack of the response desired by any particular poster (or even 60 such posters) has nothing to do with whether we've been heard. And, having been heard, there's no guarantee that ANet agrees and even when they do agree with the issue, there's no guarantee that they don't have a different solution in mind.

>

> ****

> As a reminder, [here's one developer recommendations for how they want to see feedback](http://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/157238832062/i-remember-your-52080-rule-and-it-was-an-awesome):

>

> * Speak for yourself

> * Speak honestly. Avoid hyperbole.

> * Speak about problems. Don’t propose solutions.

> * Speak to a comrade, not an enemy

> * Speak with brevity

> * Speak without expectations

 

You think? check out ele forum, ele has had clear and obvious issues for over a year in pvp, many many good simple to implement suggestions have been provided. In a year and over 20 patches the issues have not been addressed, and furthermore the changes that have been made are in some cases nonsensical and reek of poor impact analysis. One of the fundamentals of good software planning is to seek out high impact lost cost changes and go after them early and often and fast. I do wonder if the people responsible for balance are in fact developers - maybe that is the core issue?

 

as a reminder, there has not been a single competitive ele build in spvp in over a year, and changes this year have in fact made builds worse! only weaver/dagger is playable - was there any demand AT ALL for a 130 yard ele spec??

[SPESHAL.9106]

In many cases, they actually do listen as evidenced by all the hotfixes necessary where players catch things they didn't.

 

With certain professions though, they are really slow to react to what the playerbase is telling them. I'm sure there is a reason, but it's more likely related to resources and priorities versus disagreeing with what's obvious to everyone.