Why is passive Endure Pain still here?

[Sampson.2403]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"Sampson.2403" said:

> > *polishes his nails*

>

>

> *Looks at OPs AV icon*

> *Files nails silently*

>

> That's a wonderful idea, having to slot things to gain access to mechanics. We should implement it for everyone.

>

 

I'm going to assume that you're talking about mirage cloak? Well, whether or not it's busted is an entirely different topic, but at least I have to push a key to activate mirage cloak.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"Sampson.2403" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"Sampson.2403" said:

> > > *polishes his nails*

> >

> >

> > *Looks at OPs AV icon*

> > *Files nails silently*

> >

> > That's a wonderful idea, having to slot things to gain access to mechanics. We should implement it for everyone.

> >

>

> I'm going to assume that you're talking about mirage cloak? Well, whether or not it's busted is an entirely different topic, but at least I have to push a key to activate mirage cloak.

 

I agree.

 

Pressing a key to avoid _any_ kind of damage _after_ a hard cc has hit you _without needing to use a utility skill or slot a trait_ is _much more acceptable and skillful_ than slotting a trait that prevents one type of damage for two seconds on a one and a half minute cooldown.

 

All passive damage mitigation has got to go. Right now.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Hitman.5829" said:

> because warrior is a melee class.

> Give warrior 1200 range in great sword auto attacks (like revenant hammer throw) and then you can take endure pain out of the game.

> Give high mobility on range weapons for warrior and then we will not need endure pain.

> Give us teleports and stealth then we will not need endure pain.

What are you talking about?

 

Go for a rifle/gs core warr build with unblockable signet, if you want to be mobile and ranged and just spam buttons, because who cares about blocks... oh and 5s weapon swap cooldown for the ultimate carry factor.

 

Your rifle is better than axe/focus on reaper and your GS is better than the reaper gs. And reaper got its burst AND sustain gutted.

 

So wtf. are you talking about? You are still one of the most flexible classes in the game with options others can only dream about.

 

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Passive endure pain doesnt block cc and it doesnt block condi tickage. So i dont see a big problem with it. Elixer whatever blocked it all. That was alittle unbalanced compaired to its counter part.

[The Ace.9105]

Warrior is a l2p entry level class that shouldn't be viable in high tier plays but it is cause it's noob friendly and easy to play. Warrior should definitely lose endure pain and it's sustain if people really think warrior should be getting more damage etc.

 

Warrior already is super cheesy and unfun to play against with it's build of cc, rampage and bursts that hit like a truck and if you don't count everything and don't have stunbreak ready and 3 dodges for the rampage nonsense you'll get hit by insta kill combo which is annoying af and unfair and then on top of that the warrior is arrogant and thinks he is super good player and the best player the game.

 

Also the warrior jumps on your body and makes jokes about you and insults your mother after blocking you. Just cause it's getting carried by bs build.

 

Anet took a route of less damage and more survivability but I'd say it should be less cc, less surv, keep the damage. The passive regen on war is already bs af and boring mechanic that should get gutted and replaced by active stuff.

[Shagaliscious.6281]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> Passive endure pain doesnt block cc and it doesnt block condi tickage. So i dont see a big problem with it. Elixer whatever blocked it all. That was alittle unbalanced compaired to its counter part.

 

Well, Ele got it's passive shocking aura removed, which was strong, but I wouldnt say it was stronger than auto endure pain, and per ANETs previous statement that was I think over the summer? When they said they don't want defensive passives to be too strong, I think endure pain falls into that category, same with the ranger signet of stone.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

There's nothing wrong with having a passive defensive trait. What's wrong is having it give any form of invulnerability.

It just needs to have a different effect. Like pulsing barrier.

 

We have too many skills that heal too much, too often, and these annoying invulnerabilities. Other than long recharge skills like elixir S and mist form, nothing should cause invulnerabilities that last longer than 2s. Many should give barrier instead.

And all these traits that reduce cooldowns for weapons and utilities should stop doing that and instead give additional effects and alter weapon skills.

 

Barrier should also replace many forms of healing partially or completely to reduce how long can someone sustain and bunker down. A self-heal can heal over 75% of someone's health? Nope. That has to stop, it should instead heal 50% at most, any remaining healing past that should instead be barrier so it won't last.

[Kuya.6495]

I dont see a problem with the endure pain trait but a lot of other traits for nerfed too that weren't OP because Anet had decided auto immunity is bad.

 

Actually I might prefer something like 10 sec of prot, regeneration and adrenaline as a auto trait that triggers after 50% hp over the current 2 seconds of damage immunity to be honest.

[Caedmon.6798]

So much salty trolls wanting more nerfs.Warr is mainly a melee brawler class that needs to be in there for a long period of time.Without endure pain/defy pain we dont have the sustain that others have,if you think adren hp/healsig is carrying without the invulns youre ffing delusional.

[Derenaya.3479]

I think many of you miss the point. It‘s not about removing the skill, it‘s about the passive part. Redesign it so it is an active skill that you need to click. Idk make it so that if you fall under X% of health you get a Y second window to activate endure pain (could be a pop up in the window for special skills). Everything‘s better than letting the game cover for you.

[Caedmon.6798]

> @"Derenaya.3479" said:

> I think many of you miss the point. It‘s not about removing the skill, it‘s about the passive part. Redesign it so it is an active skill that you need to click. Idk make it so that if you fall under X% of health you get a Y second window to activate endure pain (could be a pop up in the window for special skills). Everything‘s better than letting the game cover for you.

 

Cus how hard is it to proc the first ep from a warri knowing defy pain wont be there,take some distance while its up and rek him when its over ? I still make use of the fact knowing when my passive will pop,having to press ep doesnt exactly require more skill.

[Derenaya.3479]

> @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > @"Derenaya.3479" said:

> > I think many of you miss the point. It‘s not about removing the skill, it‘s about the passive part. Redesign it so it is an active skill that you need to click. Idk make it so that if you fall under X% of health you get a Y second window to activate endure pain (could be a pop up in the window for special skills). Everything‘s better than letting the game cover for you.

>

> Cus how hard is it to proc the first ep from a warri knowing defy pain wont be there,take some distance while its up and rek him when its over ?

 

My point is that it would introduce a more skillfull play if the game doesn‘t ‚play‘ for you and you‘d need to do it yourself. I never said anything about how hard or easy it is to outplay it.

[Xcution.4768]

Yes nerf war ...idk who will fight soulbeast on side node anymore.

[Kumouta.4985]

cuz condi mirage doesnt care so anet doesnt care

[Lahmia.2193]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> Passive endure pain doesnt block cc and it doesnt block condi tickage. So i dont see a big problem with it. Elixer whatever blocked it all. That was alittle unbalanced compaired to its counter part.

 

As I said before, Necro also had their struck under 50% trait removed and it only gave protection and life force when hit. No cc block, no condi negation, and you still took physical damage. So that argument doesn't work.

[zoopop.5630]

All and Any Passive that ignore Damage in general is rewarding BAD players. I HATED that elixir S was a Passive trait for Engi because it rewarded bad players so much and made fights cheese. I'ts no different for rangers and warriors IMO ranger do not need a passive trait like that AT ALL with the amount of boons/damage they can output so easily on that class. Remove that from them and they wont be the "best" side node monkey class anymore. As for warrior it'll just come to down to them being "Skilled" and actually learning NOT to face tank anything up straight like most classes.

 

Anyway, Reading most of these post showed how bias MOST of the members on the forums really are and why discussion for nerfs/balance is always aids. IF you honestly think warriors NEED to have endure pain because "full counter " was nerf then you are sadly mistaken.

[Solori.6025]

> @"Kumouta.4985" said:

> cuz condi mirage doesnt care so anet doesnt care

 

That is in no small part the communities fault.

Like if people that complained about mirage had actually identified the proper issue ( frequency of condition application) then we wouldn't be in the mess we are in now.

But no, most of you lemmings cried about things that were completely irrelevent. Like torch.

A whole 2 stacks of burning ( or 4 if you let the slow as christmas phantasm hit you)

They nerfed that instead of things like

Ineptitude-

Blinding dissapation-

Lowering the confusion applied by clones-0

lowering the duration of conditions applied by clones so you would need to be active to actually have stacks make a difference (like most condi classes)

You know...things in the right direction..

 

What did people complain about instead...

 

TORCH..

freaking torch..

 

[Shuriken.6738]

lol i wouldn't even use endure pain in defense if the rest traits in line wouldn't be so garbage but yeah nerf it its disgusting op how can you allow something like this in the game

[coro.3176]

Defense in this game used to be about running tanky gear along with a few dodges, sustain (like regen) and the occasional defensive skill.

 

It is SO not like that any more.

 

* **Damage is absolutely insane now**. In the early years of the game, "high burst" used to be something like a thief doing a backstab combo for 9k. Autoattacks were something like 2.5-3.5k. Now, you will get autoattacked for 7.5k from 2000 range (with quickness and unblockable). You will eat a 25k aoe cc combo. You will get burst dead in less than 0.5s out of stealth.

* **tanky gear is useless** - that buys you .. what, 5k more health and a bit of toughness? Great. You'll survive 1 more autoattack or sigil proc. It's no longer worth giving up damage to survive an additional half a second.

* The only way to survive is to chain hard invulns, stealth, and evades while trying to land insane burst of your own. The only class that doesn't play this way is Necro because they don't have access to any of those. But still, they can't build tanky to compensate. That wouldn't help. They can only become more bursty, so it plays like a kamikaze - run from spawn, yolo into fight. Explode, get kills or get killed. respawn. repeat.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

> @"warherox.7943" said:

> > @"Lost Elegy.9276" said:

> > Damage prevention is cancerous on all levels. Hell, the ACTIVES that let you do this is half the reason Elites turned the damage up so high. Gods forbid Warrior facetank an entire team and get punished for it! "HUR DUR, CHARGE IN, USE 5 MOVES AND SPIN OUT DURING MY BALANCED STANCE AND CONDI DAMAGE IMMUNITY!" Nothing is more frustrating than fighting a class with 10 seconds to IGNORE THE ENTIRE GAME. Evasion Spamming, Infinite Stability, Resistance and the like need to outright get removed from the game. It doesn't add complexity or skill to the game, it actively takes away from it.

> > -) If Condis are bad, nerf them. Don't introduce something that screws over classes that aren't exploiting the condi system.

> > -) If CC is bad, nerf the moves that have stuns, pulls, etc. Don't make a status that renders you immune to any form of lockdown that ALSO punishes classes with little access to it. Nothing ruins my enjoyment of this game faster than a man who is REALLY ANGRY ignoring a kitten explosion.

> > -) If Damage is too high, nerf it. Don't introduce ways to completely lock out the classes that aren't abusing 2-second burst combos.

> >

> > WoW, a terrible MMO, understood these simple concepts and had a massive PvP playerbase because the combat was straightforward, easy to learn and hard to master. Guild Wars 2 will never have an active PvP playerbase with a system this janky and illogical. Nothing ruins my enjoyment of this game faster than a man who is REALLY ANGRY ignoring a kitten explosion. Or a mage obsessed with butterflies becoming immune to all forms of damage because they have illusion magic. Like. How do illusions protect you from an explosion the size of the MAP!? How do illusions take a BULLET for you?

>

> It's funny because all they have to do to balance the game is look at GW1. GW1 had a great CC system. You couldn't use a knock down skill on someone already knocked down, you had to time it so your knock down lands the moment they get up. In this game, you don't need to time CC at all because CC will overwrite each other. They need to make it so you can't get CC'd again while you're currently CC'd. Also, every stunbreak should have a stack of stability when you successfully break a stun.

 

Sure...but you can also look at GW1 to see why Anet was also bad at balancing the game. Shadowform is basically the predicessor to the issues gw2 is having right now. Having complete immunity to the game, meanwhile being able to do damage, essentially makes it overpowered and a god mode button.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

> @"Shagaliscious.6281" said:

> > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > Passive endure pain doesnt block cc and it doesnt block condi tickage. So i dont see a big problem with it. Elixer whatever blocked it all. That was alittle unbalanced compaired to its counter part.

>

> Well, Ele got it's passive shocking aura removed, which was strong, but I wouldnt say it was stronger than auto endure pain, and per ANETs previous statement that was I think over the summer? When they said they don't want defensive passives to be too strong, I think endure pain falls into that category, same with the ranger signet of stone.

 

Ele shocking aura (tempest defence) was not strong what so ever. It never stoped any kind of damage, and against ranged targets it was 100% useless. All TD did was stop follow up MELE (whitch with the lowest hp and the lowest toughness was needed) attacks. It was a balanced trait. It was only usefull in certain sitchuation and completely useless in others. It was in no way shape or form over powered. And you can not compair it to a skill like endure pain that is an invul. Like come on an invuln vs a skill that doesn't stop any damage from hitting you.

[Ceit.7619]

> @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:

> > @"warherox.7943" said:

> > > @"Lost Elegy.9276" said:

> > > Damage prevention is cancerous on all levels. Hell, the ACTIVES that let you do this is half the reason Elites turned the damage up so high. Gods forbid Warrior facetank an entire team and get punished for it! "HUR DUR, CHARGE IN, USE 5 MOVES AND SPIN OUT DURING MY BALANCED STANCE AND CONDI DAMAGE IMMUNITY!" Nothing is more frustrating than fighting a class with 10 seconds to IGNORE THE ENTIRE GAME. Evasion Spamming, Infinite Stability, Resistance and the like need to outright get removed from the game. It doesn't add complexity or skill to the game, it actively takes away from it.

> > > -) If Condis are bad, nerf them. Don't introduce something that screws over classes that aren't exploiting the condi system.

> > > -) If CC is bad, nerf the moves that have stuns, pulls, etc. Don't make a status that renders you immune to any form of lockdown that ALSO punishes classes with little access to it. Nothing ruins my enjoyment of this game faster than a man who is REALLY ANGRY ignoring a kitten explosion.

> > > -) If Damage is too high, nerf it. Don't introduce ways to completely lock out the classes that aren't abusing 2-second burst combos.

> > >

> > > WoW, a terrible MMO, understood these simple concepts and had a massive PvP playerbase because the combat was straightforward, easy to learn and hard to master. Guild Wars 2 will never have an active PvP playerbase with a system this janky and illogical. Nothing ruins my enjoyment of this game faster than a man who is REALLY ANGRY ignoring a kitten explosion. Or a mage obsessed with butterflies becoming immune to all forms of damage because they have illusion magic. Like. How do illusions protect you from an explosion the size of the MAP!? How do illusions take a BULLET for you?

> >

> > It's funny because all they have to do to balance the game is look at GW1. GW1 had a great CC system. You couldn't use a knock down skill on someone already knocked down, you had to time it so your knock down lands the moment they get up. In this game, you don't need to time CC at all because CC will overwrite each other. They need to make it so you can't get CC'd again while you're currently CC'd. Also, every stunbreak should have a stack of stability when you successfully break a stun.

>

> Sure...but you can also look at GW1 to see why Anet was also bad at balancing the game. Shadowform is basically the predicessor to the issues gw2 is having right now. Having complete immunity to the game, meanwhile being able to do damage, essentially makes it overpowered and a god mode button.

 

Shadowform built into it it's own weakness, which is that your damage was not able to go over a certain, fairly small amount based on trait allocation in pve. In pvp, your 'god mode button' would literally take 95% of your hp when it ended, so... yeah. Sounds way more balanced than what we are dealing with here, which in essential that damage scaled up way too fast compared to defense.

[Shagaliscious.6281]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > @"Shagaliscious.6281" said:

> > > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > > Passive endure pain doesnt block cc and it doesnt block condi tickage. So i dont see a big problem with it. Elixer whatever blocked it all. That was alittle unbalanced compaired to its counter part.

> >

> > Well, Ele got it's passive shocking aura removed, which was strong, but I wouldnt say it was stronger than auto endure pain, and per ANETs previous statement that was I think over the summer? When they said they don't want defensive passives to be too strong, I think endure pain falls into that category, same with the ranger signet of stone.

>

> Ele shocking aura (tempest defence) was not strong what so ever. It never stoped any kind of damage, and against ranged targets it was 100% useless. All TD did was stop follow up MELE (whitch with the lowest hp and the lowest toughness was needed) attacks. It was a balanced trait. It was only usefull in certain sitchuation and completely useless in others. It was in no way shape or form over powered. And you can not compair it to a skill like endure pain that is an invul. Like come on an invuln vs a skill that doesn't stop any damage from hitting you.

 

It's a passive defense trait though, and ANET said they wanted to get rid of those traits. And to say it never stopped any type of damage is ridiculous. Any thief running daze on steal would steal + daze, and backstab for a lot of damage. That trait was strong in that situation, although I would also argue a good player wouldn't need that trait, as you should break stun and dodge right after you get dazed in that situation, since it's almost guaranteed a thief is about to backstab you.

[Krieger.4712]

> @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> So much salty trolls wanting more nerfs.Warr is mainly a melee brawler class that needs to be in there for a long period of time.Without endure pain/defy pain we dont have the sustain that others have,if you think adren hp/healsig is carrying without the invulns youre ffing delusional.

 

Exactly.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

> @"Ceit.7619" said:

> > @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:

> > > @"warherox.7943" said:

> > > > @"Lost Elegy.9276" said:

> > > > Damage prevention is cancerous on all levels. Hell, the ACTIVES that let you do this is half the reason Elites turned the damage up so high. Gods forbid Warrior facetank an entire team and get punished for it! "HUR DUR, CHARGE IN, USE 5 MOVES AND SPIN OUT DURING MY BALANCED STANCE AND CONDI DAMAGE IMMUNITY!" Nothing is more frustrating than fighting a class with 10 seconds to IGNORE THE ENTIRE GAME. Evasion Spamming, Infinite Stability, Resistance and the like need to outright get removed from the game. It doesn't add complexity or skill to the game, it actively takes away from it.

> > > > -) If Condis are bad, nerf them. Don't introduce something that screws over classes that aren't exploiting the condi system.

> > > > -) If CC is bad, nerf the moves that have stuns, pulls, etc. Don't make a status that renders you immune to any form of lockdown that ALSO punishes classes with little access to it. Nothing ruins my enjoyment of this game faster than a man who is REALLY ANGRY ignoring a kitten explosion.

> > > > -) If Damage is too high, nerf it. Don't introduce ways to completely lock out the classes that aren't abusing 2-second burst combos.

> > > >

> > > > WoW, a terrible MMO, understood these simple concepts and had a massive PvP playerbase because the combat was straightforward, easy to learn and hard to master. Guild Wars 2 will never have an active PvP playerbase with a system this janky and illogical. Nothing ruins my enjoyment of this game faster than a man who is REALLY ANGRY ignoring a kitten explosion. Or a mage obsessed with butterflies becoming immune to all forms of damage because they have illusion magic. Like. How do illusions protect you from an explosion the size of the MAP!? How do illusions take a BULLET for you?

> > >

> > > It's funny because all they have to do to balance the game is look at GW1. GW1 had a great CC system. You couldn't use a knock down skill on someone already knocked down, you had to time it so your knock down lands the moment they get up. In this game, you don't need to time CC at all because CC will overwrite each other. They need to make it so you can't get CC'd again while you're currently CC'd. Also, every stunbreak should have a stack of stability when you successfully break a stun.

> >

> > Sure...but you can also look at GW1 to see why Anet was also bad at balancing the game. Shadowform is basically the predicessor to the issues gw2 is having right now. Having complete immunity to the game, meanwhile being able to do damage, essentially makes it overpowered and a god mode button.

>

> Shadowform built into it it's own weakness, which is that your damage was not able to go over a certain, fairly small amount based on trait allocation in pve. In pvp, your 'god mode button' would literally take 95% of your hp when it ended, so... yeah. Sounds way more balanced than what we are dealing with here, which in essential that damage scaled up way too fast compared to defense.

 

Shadowform usto not be so nerfed...all those things that made shadowform do negative effects were repercussions of constant nerfing to the skill over years,

 

They didn't want to go and smiters boon nerf it because players were playing the game literally only to farm with this build (Underworld speed clears and the like) and everytime it was nerfed there was an uproar. That's how broken this skill was that people had become dependent on it to clear hours worth of content in 20 minutes.

 

But like i said, Shadowform is the precurser to what we have now. The invuln procs while being able to do damage is far worse than shadowform, even though shadowform was the worst offender of gw1 history. Just shows how kittened up the balancing is for gw2.