Is mesmer the most niche class?

[FLEUR.7458]

I've been playing GW2 since beta, and because in original GW I played Mesmer (and followed the release of the Mesmer class since its announcement), my first character and main was of course a Mesmer. I've done all of my achievement hunting, story missions, map completion, etc on my Mesmer. Though I have had alts for a long time, I never really played them beyond just completing the story. I always sub-par geared them and took no time to learn rotations because they were just stand by alts in case I ever grew bored of my original profession.

 

At release of PoF I specced mirage, played it for a bit - got a little into the story, and then I did something I havent done before - I switched to my viper reaper. I literally melted everything in the story line, had no problem in map completion, never died, did tons of damage. It sort of made me wonder why I even play mesmer. Then I realized I had grown comfortable in a niche.

 

My mesmer was useful for 3 things:

 

Fractals (if a mesmer wasnt already in the group)

Raids

HP trains

 

But outside of those instances (in which other professions can perform easier and with less hostility from other players, and with an easier rotation/utility knowledge) my mesmer is pretty useless. Its fallen short in PvP and WvW.

 

And so, I guess I'm just wondering now - why do we play this class?

[Curunen.8729]

Why do we play Mesmer?

 

Because it's the only reason GW2 is worth playing compared to all the other generic fantasy/techy classes.

 

The day I stop playing Mesmer is the day I stop playing GW2.

[glenndevis.8327]

The game isn't balanced around open world content really. It's designed so every class can do open world content well but some can just do it a lot better than others.

Fractals & Raids are pretty much all the relevant endgame PvE content in the game so don't worry about that.

PvP mesmer is a strong class but mostly coz of portal & moa really. In WvW mesmer is pretty much utility in zergs from what I know (I barely WvW so correct me if im wrong.) Mesmer is a strong roam class as well.

 

Mesmer isn't necessarily a niche class, but it's definitely the most unique class.

And why play mesmer? Personally I just LOVE the idea of an illusionist type of class. I love messing with the opponents head, confusing them and just being an annoying little shit for my enemy. Helping people with portal is really nice as well.

In PvE I've never been much of a support, tank or dps support player but I love mesmer despite being that kind of class.

 

Mesmer is probably my fav class out of any mmo i've ever played.

[OriOri.8724]

Mesmer is designed as a niche class, and that's the problem. A lot of choices were made in its original design to push it towards this niche, but unfortuately that niche doesn't work in competitive environments, and the compromises that were made to the core class to balance it for competitive environment makes it painful to play in some PvE situations.

[Ojimaru.8970]

> @FLEUR.7458 said:

> At release of PoF I specced mirage, played it for a bit - got a little into the story, and then I did something I havent done before - I switched to my viper reaper. I literally melted everything in the story line, had no problem in map completion, never died, did tons of damage. It sort of made me wonder why I even play mesmer. Then I realized I had grown comfortable in a niche.

 

Hard to respond to this considering I have no idea what and how you approached encounters as a Mirage.

 

> My mesmer was useful for 3 things:

>

> Fractals (if a mesmer wasnt already in the group)

> Raids

> HP trains

>

> But outside of those instances (in which other professions can perform easier and with less hostility from other players, and with an easier rotation/utility knowledge) my mesmer is pretty useless. Its fallen short in PvP and WvW.

 

This is the part that really confuses me. DPS Mesmers, whether Power or Condition Damage, have one of the easiest rotations in the game and are therefore able to maintain their DPS easily in a realistic scenario. And no other profession can perform _anywhere_ as well as a Chronomancer in boon sharing, Alacrity, _and_ Quickness. I will admit that the skill ceiling for Mesmers is among the highest in the game, and many players have this assumption that one Mesmer player is as good as the rest. People expect you to hot-swap utilities like you're MacGyver, nail jumping puzzles like a pro, and execute content and sequence skips like the best speedrunners in the world.

 

And frankly, that's why I play my Mesmer.

 

[hamburger.6431]

I'm having fun playing condi mesmian scepter/pistol axe/torch for pve. Personally. I love having the constant movement in melee range and it sure beats the hell out of scepter for larger groups of mobs.

[atlashugged.7642]

No mesmer isn't the most niche class. However mesmer does seem to be the class that inspires the most "pity me, the poor main" type posts, besides necromancer.

 

Life is good as a mesmer player: In instanced PvE you've got access to two highly desirable buffs making you THE support class, and can do adequate dps if you want to. In Open World PvE you've got all sorts of utility to cheese with and help out randoms and an easy time with high invuln uptime and good damage. In PvP mesmers are the best burst class, and bring all sorts of utility with Moa and Portal. Mesmers are valued in pretty much every aspect of the game, once you hit 80.

[OriOri.8724]

> @atlashugged.7642 said:

> No mesmer isn't the most niche class. However mesmer does seem to be the class that inspires the most "pity me, the poor main" type posts, besides necromancer.

>

> Life is good as a mesmer player: In instanced PvE you've got access to two highly desirable buffs making you THE support class, and can do adequate dps if you want to. In Open World PvE you've got all sorts of utility to cheese with and help out randoms and an easy time with high invuln uptime and good damage. In PvP mesmers are the best burst class, and bring all sorts of utility with Moa and Portal. Mesmers are valued in pretty much every aspect of the game, once you hit 80.

 

Be honest with yourself here. Chrono got quickness and alacrity (both of which are no longer even unique to it mind you. Firebrand can easily output perma quickness now, and Rev has alacrity on a core traitline and an elite spec!) because mesmer was so niche before that it offered nothing else other than well timed reflects, portal and SoI to organized groups.

[zealex.9410]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> > @atlashugged.7642 said:

> > No mesmer isn't the most niche class. However mesmer does seem to be the class that inspires the most "pity me, the poor main" type posts, besides necromancer.

> >

> > Life is good as a mesmer player: In instanced PvE you've got access to two highly desirable buffs making you THE support class, and can do adequate dps if you want to. In Open World PvE you've got all sorts of utility to cheese with and help out randoms and an easy time with high invuln uptime and good damage. In PvP mesmers are the best burst class, and bring all sorts of utility with Moa and Portal. Mesmers are valued in pretty much every aspect of the game, once you hit 80.

>

> Be honest with yourself here. Chrono got quickness and alacrity (both of which are no longer even unique to it mind you. Firebrand can easily output perma quickness now, and Rev has alacrity on a core traitline and an elite spec!) because mesmer was so niche before that it offered nothing else other than well timed reflects, portal and SoI to organized groups.

 

Yet no class can provide both as well as chrono with as much dmg avoidance and cc.

[Esplen.3940]

Guardian always had "better" reflects than Mesmer. They had lower uptime, but more reliability, and their reflect damage is usually superior due to them having actual %damage buffs.

 

Portal is no longer unique to Mesmer with Watchwork Portal Device, White Mantle Portal Device, and Sand Swell. Although Sand Swell can't be used to cross many gaps (but it can be used as a blink), and the Portal Devices either cost a lot of money per use or have a long cooldown.

[atlashugged.7642]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> > @atlashugged.7642 said:

> > No mesmer isn't the most niche class. However mesmer does seem to be the class that inspires the most "pity me, the poor main" type posts, besides necromancer.

> >

> > Life is good as a mesmer player: In instanced PvE you've got access to two highly desirable buffs making you THE support class, and can do adequate dps if you want to. In Open World PvE you've got all sorts of utility to cheese with and help out randoms and an easy time with high invuln uptime and good damage. In PvP mesmers are the best burst class, and bring all sorts of utility with Moa and Portal. Mesmers are valued in pretty much every aspect of the game, once you hit 80.

>

> Be honest with yourself here. Chrono got quickness and alacrity (both of which are no longer even unique to it mind you. Firebrand can easily output perma quickness now, and Rev has alacrity on a core traitline and an elite spec!) because mesmer was so niche before that it offered nothing else other than well timed reflects, portal and SoI to organized groups.

 

I honestly don't know why mesmer got what it got in its long patch history. I'm not an anet dev. All I can tell you is the current state of the mesmer class and the whining whiners that play it. It seems that mesmer is good, but the players will be eternally dissatisfied. I don't know what it is about my favorite class that attracts you people, but I love the class anyways.

[takatsu.9416]

It's the most fun. I love the action it provides , mobility in and out of range, explosions left right center, active defense using so many blocks and evades, tons of utilities , tons of survival skills, but all of them in your complete control, and it's a class that rewards skill imho. We arent going to have the same numbers on paper but skillfully playing the mesmer feels really good and also even in the most challenging difficult complicated situations where most classes who seemed good on paper or for simpler scenarios , mesmers can still shine imo. Okay even if it's just that more skill is necessary to keep mesmer competitive enough in most situations, that's already fun to me. I feel players greatly respect and still fear good mesmer players. I feel like it's mesmer players who know the issues with the class and end up complaining.

[Ojimaru.8970]

> @Esplen.3940 said:

> Guardian always had "better" reflects than Mesmer. They had lower uptime, but more reliability, and their reflect damage is usually superior due to them having actual %damage buffs.

 

Except that a Chronomancer can push out three to four Feedbacks, and another four more reflects with Temporal Curtain and Phantasmal Warden.

 

[Esplen.3940]

> @Ojimaru.8970 said:

> > @Esplen.3940 said:

> > Guardian always had "better" reflects than Mesmer. They had lower uptime, but more reliability, and their reflect damage is usually superior due to them having actual %damage buffs.

>

> Except that a Chronomancer can push out three to four Feedbacks, and another four more reflects with Temporal Curtain and Phantasmal Warden.

 

Keyword here:

> `had`

 

Lower uptime due to Wardens. More reliability due to Wardens (WoR > FB before it became ground target). Higher damage due to traits.

 

Once Mimic got updated, it was contentious who had better uptime (counting that you don't usually need to reflect for a whole minute straight).

With CS (and Mimic), you're using a high cd ability for higher uptime on utility, which is fine, but it was still a pretty weak reflect until Superiority Complex hit.

 

Right now, if you stack Compounding Power, Fencer's Finesse, and Superiority Complex you get really nasty reflects, but it's still questionable who has better reflects (not more). It really depends on what and how you need/use reflects.

[OriOri.8724]

> @Esplen.3940 said:

> Guardian always had "better" reflects than Mesmer. They had lower uptime, but more reliability, and their reflect damage is usually superior due to them having actual %damage buffs.

>

> Portal is no longer unique to Mesmer with Watchwork Portal Device, White Mantle Portal Device, and Sand Swell. Although Sand Swell can't be used to cross many gaps (but it can be used as a blink), and the Portal Devices either cost a lot of money per use or have a long cooldown.

 

Not sure about your implied claim that feedback isnt' a reliable reflect. As forthe white mantle portal devices, those were released after HoT, so after chrono, and thus aren't all that relevant. Same with sand swell, released years after HoT was.

[Justine.6351]

Mesmer reflects > Guardian reflects

 

It's not really a question when guardian only has one reflect lol. Firebrand might change this idk yet.

[Esplen.3940]

It's almost as if people aren't reading what I'm writing. But they are reading, even if it's just a few out of context words.

[Justine.6351]

> @Esplen.3940 said:

> It's almost as if people aren't reading what I'm writing. But they are reading, even if it's just a few out of context words.

 

You were measuring reflects by the damage they did but failed to mention permeating wrath.

 

You didn't take into account the other utility that the mesmer reflect skills bring to the table along with their varied delivery methods.

[Esplen.3940]

> @Justine.6351 said:

> > @Esplen.3940 said:

> > It's almost as if people aren't reading what I'm writing. But they are reading, even if it's just a few out of context words.

>

> You were measuring reflects by the damage they did but failed to mention permeating wrath.

>

> You didn't take into account the other utility that the mesmer reflect skills bring to the table along with their varied delivery methods.

 

Let's see what I said. (Also Permeating Wrath?? I get that it arbitrarily increases damage, but Virtue of Justice isn't really a good baseline for Guardian having higher Reflect damage than Mesmer.)

 

> @Esplen.3940 said:

> Guardian always had "better" reflects than Mesmer. They had lower uptime, but more reliability, and their reflect damage is usually superior due to them having actual %damage buffs.

 

"Better" (in quotes because subjective and situational) due to higher reliability and damage. Lower uptime, though.

 

The higher damage was because Mesmer had access to fewer traits that would buff their (non Phantasm) damage output.

 

> @Esplen.3940 said:

> > @Ojimaru.8970 said:

> >

> > Except that a Chronomancer can push out three to four Feedbacks, and another four more reflects with Temporal Curtain and Phantasmal Warden.

>

> Keyword here:

> > `had`

>

> Lower uptime due to Wardens. More reliability due to Wardens (WoR > FB before it became ground target). Higher damage due to traits.

>

> Once Mimic got updated, it was contentious who had better uptime (counting that you don't usually need to reflect for a whole minute straight).

> With CS (and Mimic), you're using a high cd ability for higher uptime on utility, which is fine, but it was still a pretty weak reflect until Superiority Complex hit.

>

> Right now, if you stack Compounding Power, Fencer's Finesse, and Superiority Complex you get really nasty reflects, but it's still questionable who has better reflects (not more). It really depends on what and how you need/use reflects.

 

So here I talk about Warden, FB, and updated Mimic. Admittedly, there were more traits that allowed reflects, such as Master of Fragmentation and Temporal Curtain, but TC had/has a much lower Z ceiling than Wall of Reflection making it sometimes just as unwieldy as Wardens (see: reliability). Additionally, if you count Temporal Curtain, you forego damage boosts as it requires traiting into Inspiration, making you supportive in nature.

 

> @Justine.6351 said:

> Mesmer reflects > Guardian reflects

>

> It's not really a question when guardian only has one reflect lol. Firebrand might change this idk yet.

 

So yes, Mesmer currently has better and more reflects than Guardian currently, but that is not how it has always been. Mesmer always had more, but better is defined by what you are aiming for, and uptime wasn't always the deciding factor. There were, however, a few instances where Mesmer reflects were better (Alphard and Belka cheese, notably). In other situations, Guardian was more desired for their higher reflect damage.

 

The rise of Assassin's (1 year after release) helped Mesmer bring their reflect damage up (because it used the enemies power and your Crit Chance/Crit Damage), but Guardian multipliers were still more powerful than Mesmer, so a Guardian would hit the same numbers without requiring underwater exploits and maintaining illusions. Keep in mind illusions did not have 95% damage reduction from non-targeted abilities until the release of HoT, October 23, 2015. [(source)](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2015-10-23#BALANCE.2C_BUG-FIXING.2C_POLISH)

 

 

[Justine.6351]

> @Esplen.3940 said:

> > @Justine.6351 said:

> > > @Esplen.3940 said:

> > > It's almost as if people aren't reading what I'm writing. But they are reading, even if it's just a few out of context words.

> >

> > You were measuring reflects by the damage they did but failed to mention permeating wrath.

> >

> > You didn't take into account the other utility that the mesmer reflect skills bring to the table along with their varied delivery methods.

>

> Let's see what I said. (Also Permeating Wrath?? I get that it arbitrarily increases damage, but Virtue of Justice isn't really a good baseline for Guardian having higher Reflect damage than Mesmer.)

>

> > @Esplen.3940 said:

> > Guardian always had "better" reflects than Mesmer. They had lower uptime, but more reliability, and their reflect damage is usually superior due to them having actual %damage buffs.

>

> "Better" (in quotes because subjective and situational) due to higher reliability and damage. Lower uptime, though.

>

> The higher damage was because Mesmer had access to fewer traits that would buff their (non Phantasm) damage output.

>

> > @Esplen.3940 said:

> > > @Ojimaru.8970 said:

> > >

> > > Except that a Chronomancer can push out three to four Feedbacks, and another four more reflects with Temporal Curtain and Phantasmal Warden.

> >

> > Keyword here:

> > > `had`

> >

> > Lower uptime due to Wardens. More reliability due to Wardens (WoR > FB before it became ground target). Higher damage due to traits.

> >

> > Once Mimic got updated, it was contentious who had better uptime (counting that you don't usually need to reflect for a whole minute straight).

> > With CS (and Mimic), you're using a high cd ability for higher uptime on utility, which is fine, but it was still a pretty weak reflect until Superiority Complex hit.

> >

> > Right now, if you stack Compounding Power, Fencer's Finesse, and Superiority Complex you get really nasty reflects, but it's still questionable who has better reflects (not more). It really depends on what and how you need/use reflects.

>

> So here I talk about Warden, FB, and updated Mimic. Admittedly, there were more traits that allowed reflects, such as Master of Fragmentation and Temporal Curtain, but TC had/has a much lower Z ceiling than Wall of Reflection making it sometimes just as unwieldy as Wardens (see: reliability). Additionally, if you count Temporal Curtain, you forego damage boosts as it requires traiting into Inspiration, making you supportive in nature.

>

> > @Justine.6351 said:

> > Mesmer reflects > Guardian reflects

> >

> > It's not really a question when guardian only has one reflect lol. Firebrand might change this idk yet.

>

> So yes, Mesmer currently has better and more reflects than Guardian currently, but that is not how it has always been. Mesmer always had more, but better is defined by what you are aiming for, and uptime wasn't always the deciding factor. There were, however, a few instances where Mesmer reflects were better (Alphard and Belka cheese, notably). In other situations, Guardian was more desired for their higher reflect damage.

>

> The rise of Assassin's (1 year after release) helped Mesmer bring their reflect damage up (because it used the enemies power and your Crit Chance/Crit Damage), but Guardian multipliers were still more powerful than Mesmer, so a Guardian would hit the same numbers without requiring underwater exploits and maintaining illusions. Keep in mind illusions did not have 95% damage reduction from non-targeted abilities until the release of HoT, October 23, 2015. [(source)](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2015-10-23#BALANCE.2C_BUG-FIXING.2C_POLISH)

>

>

 

Lol he doesn't know reflected projectiles, and any dot damage they cause, trigger voj....

 

You make it out to be like reflected projectile damage means something with all this talk about damage modifiers. What? pve? Reflecting projectiles in a pvp environment is an additional means to punish people mildly, not to flat out kill them. It isn't until you have a burn guard place a wall of reflect in zerging that projectile reflect dealing damage becomes a notable thing, and that's because of widespread burning, not power damage.

[Pyroatheist.9031]

> @FLEUR.7458 said:

> I've been playing GW2 since beta, and because in original GW I played Mesmer (and followed the release of the Mesmer class since its announcement), my first character and main was of course a Mesmer. I've done all of my achievement hunting, story missions, map completion, etc on my Mesmer. Though I have had alts for a long time, I never really played them beyond just completing the story. I always sub-par geared them and took no time to learn rotations because they were just stand by alts in case I ever grew bored of my original profession.

>

> At release of PoF I specced mirage, played it for a bit - got a little into the story, and then I did something I havent done before - I switched to my viper reaper. I literally melted everything in the story line, had no problem in map completion, never died, did tons of damage. It sort of made me wonder why I even play mesmer. Then I realized I had grown comfortable in a niche.

>

> My mesmer was useful for 3 things:

>

> Fractals (if a mesmer wasnt already in the group)

> Raids

> HP trains

>

> But outside of those instances (in which other professions can perform easier and with less hostility from other players, and with an easier rotation/utility knowledge) my mesmer is pretty useless. Its fallen short in PvP and WvW.

>

> And so, I guess I'm just wondering now - why do we play this class?

 

Well, lets see.

#PvE

###Open World and Story

So I've geared up my mirage in full vipers/sinister etc, and it's actually incredibly solid open world compared to what mesmer has had to struggle with since launch.

When specced appropriately, the amount of damage it can unload on a very regular basis is very respectable. It also has the capability, with a quick weapon and

couple major trait swaps, to respec into a high sustain dps boss-killing build. When doing bounty trains in completely random mish-mashes of players, I hit top dps

of a large squad every single time unless one of the bounties has a cancerous anti-mesmer mod. This basically demonstrates that mirage is able to produce

extremely reliable single target dps in non-optimal scenarios; perfect for open world fights. Same goes for all the story stuff: melt normal things, minor respec for

bosses to melt those too.

###Fractals and Dungeons

Don't bring your mirage here...but you don't need to. Chrono exists! Chrono still exists and is still one of the very best classes you can slot into a party to make it

drastically better. A properly played chrono is an extremely valuable player in all fractals and dungeons.

###Raids

Obviously, the chronotank is still the meta of metas. It's challenging to play, extremely vital to the performance of a group, and absolutely required. Mirage and

power mesmer are also solid choices for raid DPS now on many, though not all, fights. You're not going to top the QT dps charts, but you very well might get top

dps in actual raid parties due to the extreme reliability of dps that the builds enable.

 

#PvP

Mirage is a decent duelist, condie chrono is still a solid choice, portal and moa and still portal and moa. Mesmer still and likely always will have somewhat of a slot...but honestly who plays PvP these days...

 

#WvW

For roaming and small groups, both mirage and chrono are extremely powerful, in a variety of builds at that. Full glassy burst chrono is still potent, condie chrono is still excellent, full support chrono is a valuable player in a havoc group. Mirage is an excellent WvW condition duelist, and can be sorta shoe-horned into a power build as well. In large groups, mirage is pretty awful right now, but support chrono is incredibly valuable with high output stability, boon reapplication, resistance generation, superspeed potential, aoe control, and aoe healing. Any good WvW group comp is going to include some chronos because of their powerful support abilities.

 

And...that's about it. You can't just take 1 build and expect it to work in every aspect of the game. However, a mesmer player that is familiar with the breadth of what the class can provide and able to master all of those different playstyles will be extremely valuable in every single aspect of the game.

 

[Esplen.3940]

2 things.

 

1: My posts are always PvE related unless explicitly or contextually stated.

 

2: Stop arguing with yourself.

 

> @Justine.6351 said:

> Mesmer reflects > Guardian reflects

>

> It's not really a question when guardian only has one reflect lol. Firebrand might change this idk yet.

 

----

 

> @Justine.6351 said:

> You make it out to be like reflected projectile damage means something with all this talk about damage modifiers. It isn't until you have a burn guard place a wall of reflect in zerging that projectile reflect dealing damage becomes a notable thing, and that's because of widespread burning, not power damage.

 

Meanwhile I yielded the disclaimer:

 

> @Esplen.3940 said:

>Mesmer always had more, but **better is defined by what you are aiming for,** and uptime wasn't always the deciding factor.

 

I would say that this completely lines up with your point, but you've contradicted yourself, so I don't know where or what your stance is other than you only care about WvW balance?? (Because that's totally a thing, right?)

[Justine.6351]

> @Esplen.3940 said:

> 2 things.

>

> 1: My posts are always PvE related unless explicitly or contextually stated.

>

> 2: Stop arguing with yourself.

>

> > @Justine.6351 said:

> > Mesmer reflects > Guardian reflects

> >

> > It's not really a question when guardian only has one reflect lol. Firebrand might change this idk yet.

>

> ----

>

> > @Justine.6351 said:

> > You make it out to be like reflected projectile damage means something with all this talk about damage modifiers. It isn't until you have a burn guard place a wall of reflect in zerging that projectile reflect dealing damage becomes a notable thing, and that's because of widespread burning, not power damage.

>

> Meanwhile I yielded the disclaimer:

>

> > @Esplen.3940 said:

> >Mesmer always had more, but **better is defined by what you are aiming for,** and uptime wasn't always the deciding factor.

>

> I would say that this completely lines up with your point, but you've contradicted yourself, so I don't know where or what your stance is other than you only care about WvW balance?? (Because that's totally a thing, right?)

 

Stop seeing things that arnt there.

 

Mesmer reflects are better with more sources, varied delivery and utility tied in. Guardians can actually deal damage with reflects through permeating wrath. I'd still take mesmer reflects over guardian reflects any day of the week because they are not a one-and-done.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @Pyroatheist.9031 said:

> > @FLEUR.7458 said:

> > I've been playing GW2 since beta, and because in original GW I played Mesmer (and followed the release of the Mesmer class since its announcement), my first character and main was of course a Mesmer. I've done all of my achievement hunting, story missions, map completion, etc on my Mesmer. Though I have had alts for a long time, I never really played them beyond just completing the story. I always sub-par geared them and took no time to learn rotations because they were just stand by alts in case I ever grew bored of my original profession.

> >

> > At release of PoF I specced mirage, played it for a bit - got a little into the story, and then I did something I havent done before - I switched to my viper reaper. I literally melted everything in the story line, had no problem in map completion, never died, did tons of damage. It sort of made me wonder why I even play mesmer. Then I realized I had grown comfortable in a niche.

> >

> > My mesmer was useful for 3 things:

> >

> > Fractals (if a mesmer wasnt already in the group)

> > Raids

> > HP trains

> >

> > But outside of those instances (in which other professions can perform easier and with less hostility from other players, and with an easier rotation/utility knowledge) my mesmer is pretty useless. Its fallen short in PvP and WvW.

> >

> > And so, I guess I'm just wondering now - why do we play this class?

>

> Well, lets see.

> #PvE

> ###Open World and Story

> So I've geared up my mirage in full vipers/sinister etc, and it's actually incredibly solid open world compared to what mesmer has had to struggle with since launch.

> When specced appropriately, the amount of damage it can unload on a very regular basis is very respectable. It also has the capability, with a quick weapon and

> couple major trait swaps, to respec into a high sustain dps boss-killing build. When doing bounty trains in completely random mish-mashes of players, I hit top dps

> of a large squad every single time unless one of the bounties has a cancerous anti-mesmer mod. This basically demonstrates that mirage is able to produce

> extremely reliable single target dps in non-optimal scenarios; perfect for open world fights. Same goes for all the story stuff: melt normal things, minor respec for

> bosses to melt those too.

> ###Fractals and Dungeons

> Don't bring your mirage here...but you don't need to. Chrono exists! Chrono still exists and is still one of the very best classes you can slot into a party to make it

> drastically better. A properly played chrono is an extremely valuable player in all fractals and dungeons.

> ###Raids

> Obviously, the chronotank is still the meta of metas. It's challenging to play, extremely vital to the performance of a group, and absolutely required. Mirage and

> power mesmer are also solid choices for raid DPS now on many, though not all, fights. You're not going to top the QT dps charts, but you very well might get top

> dps in actual raid parties due to the extreme reliability of dps that the builds enable.

>

> #PvP

> Mirage is a decent duelist, condie chrono is still a solid choice, portal and moa and still portal and moa. Mesmer still and likely always will have somewhat of a slot...but honestly who plays PvP these days...

>

> #WvW

> For roaming and small groups, both mirage and chrono are extremely powerful, in a variety of builds at that. Full glassy burst chrono is still potent, condie chrono is still excellent, full support chrono is a valuable player in a havoc group. Mirage is an excellent WvW condition duelist, and can be sorta shoe-horned into a power build as well. In large groups, mirage is pretty awful right now, but support chrono is incredibly valuable with high output stability, boon reapplication, resistance generation, superspeed potential, aoe control, and aoe healing. Any good WvW group comp is going to include some chronos because of their powerful support abilities.

>

> And...that's about it. You can't just take 1 build and expect it to work in every aspect of the game. However, a mesmer player that is familiar with the breadth of what the class can provide and able to master all of those different playstyles will be extremely valuable in every single aspect of the game.

>

 

Nice summery, but you did not disprove TC. All you said was mesmer is very useful in its niche as chrono, which no one disputes.

 

Mesmers niche is being currently THE support class you want for group content.

 

Should that get taken away, the class as a whole would be in a worse state than any other class ingame, even those which are not dps meta in raids for example (because you can always take along a subpar dps, but a subpar support class will get benched).

[Justine.6351]

Stupid question,

 

I was messing around with just an open world pver solo damage chrono and I ended up domination, dueling, chrono with full wells traited for alacrity. I still had my wvw commander/wanderer gearing and felt like I was doing good damage. Is full zerker wells a build?