Solori.6025 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"herrmartell.7109" said: > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > No you did miss the point, a weaver cannot 100-0 you in 1-2s except on scepter and you'll see it coming as it has poor blinking abilities. A rev can blink on you and 100-0 you from 1500 range. > > > > > > > > I dare you to point out which Revenant skill has a 1,500 range. I DARE YOU. > > > > > > > > These are the only ways a Revenant can close the gap between you and him: > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frigid_Blitz <= 900 > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathstrike <= 600 > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Devour_Brand <= 1200 (and this one only works underwater) > > > > > > > > Now, let's check a Revenant's ranged skills: > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shattershot <= 900 An example of Renegade's range > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hammer_Bolt <= 1200 You can't die vs a Revenant's hammer unless you are sucidal > > > > > > > > None of these skills are hard hitters, and none can be spammed. The joke's on you. > > > > > > > > > I wouldn't admit to being here since 2014 if you don't understand the difference between a rev 100-0 and a weaver 100-0. > > > > > > > > LOL you just keep making a fool out of yourself. > > > > > > OK. > > > > > > So as others have pointed out Phase Traversal -> Deathstrike is 1800 but a realistic estimate is 1500 and phase traversal grants quickness so you'll get that damage as a +1 from deathstrike most of the time especially when done from such a range if the person doesn't see you. Lets count the skill coefficients: > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathstrike 0.3 > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathstrike_(second_skill) 2.0 > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Precision_Strike 0.49 x3 > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shackling_Wave 2.25 (note cast time increased to just under 1s so more counter to the follow up after DS, quickness makes it about 0.6s) > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unrelenting_Assault 0.57 (I think this is per strike so x5 for 2.8) > > > > > > So the best thing to do is PT -> DS -> DS 2nd hit -> Precision Strike for a total of 3.8 in skill coefficients. If instead you used Unrelenting Assault you'd get 5.1, Shackling Wave you'd get 4.5 hence the cast increase we saw in the patch. > > > > > > What about weaver though? > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plasma_Beam 2.2 > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Electric_Discharge 0.25 x2 > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Strike 1.2 > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Blast 1.4 > > > > > > So clearly if we use all these skill we get a total coefficient of 5.1 FA weaver is the clear winner in burst...but it has to be within 900 range to do it while the rev can be much further away however in range ele can burst slightly faster than the rev depending on which skills rev uses, ele takes about 1.25s while the rev takes 1.5-2s depending on quickness. Ele would have to burn LF do close this gap and is unlikely to do so especially if they wish to use it as part of burst which would be completely unnecessary and a fools move when they're rocking 5.1 in total coefficients. > > > > > > That's not the whole picture though, rev can stack as many damage bonuses as ele while getting to and maintaining 25 might which gives 50% more power damage and near 100% crit chance. This gives an exceptionally high amount of damage over weaver especially using burst of strength before hand which would push the damage into competitive levels with a weaver easily. Also ele's follow up is complete garbage while rev maintains high pressure in a +1 role while having the tools to survive if needed. > > > > > > That's just on paper, the reality is Rev has vastly outperformed weaver for +1 for a long time now hence why you barely see FA weavers and see revs far more often. > > > > > > Rev needs a nerf but so does every class nearly, everything has been dialled up to 11 with HoT then PoF took this even further. > > > > It's actually not slightly faster. An Ele burst Much faster than a rev- > > > > After Phase Traversal and shackling wave you will have used 45 energy- on a fresh engage that means you then have to switch legends, then continue, then hope you aren't counter bursted, as rev doesn't have the sustain once those skills you listed are used. > > Like we have to factor in energy for everything a rev does as well. Just listing skills doesn't do any justice as they ( revenants) have to be actively managing resources. > > > > True but you also have to factor in time taken to get to the +1 if they start at the same point, if you PT, DS you've used 45 energy for the +1 but you got there much faster than the ele. If you just use PT + Shackling Wave you covered less distance but you also immob the person which is going to help with follow up but is a slower combo even with quickness. If you PT+Precision strike you retain much more energy but it does less damage. > > There's a ton of variables and as you say energy needs to be accounted for as well which is why I only listed 2 skill combos when adding rev coefficients as they can really only use 2 then legend swap and precision strike after that because of it's low cost. That's without mentioning did they use burst of strength and switch to shiro? How much might do they have? Those will affect survivability and damage considerably. > > Either way if focused a FA weaver will go down much faster than a rev if they're using arcane blast. If the weaver doesn't use arcane blast (uses arcane shield) the damage from FA weaver is lowered a lot but can get more survivability however at that point rev would burst better no matter the combo. This is why I said that in reality people are and have been using rev instead of FA weaver for a long time now, it's rare enough to see ele's let alone a FA weaver. YEa I went in on my rev again. I thought energy regen was much slower than it actually is. It's quite possible to PT-DS- then follow up with any other 10 cost skill as you should have about 20 ish energy from the regen that kicks in from combat. Also- Don't get the wrong idea I am in no way defending rev damage- I'm still salty from the power mirage nerfs ^_^ I would be more than happy for EVERY POWER BUILD to be as useful as the one I currently enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dami.5046 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Class killed me so I want it nerfed. Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus.3192 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 > @"Solori.6025" said: > > YEa I went in on my rev again. I thought energy regen was much slower than it actually is. > It's quite possible to PT-DS- then follow up with any other 10 cost skill as you should have about 20 ish energy from the regen that kicks in from combat. > Also- > Don't get the wrong idea I am in no way defending rev damage- I'm still salty from the power mirage nerfs ^_^ > I would be more than happy for EVERY POWER BUILD to be as useful as the one I currently enjoy > oooh oohhh i wanna play this game. I logged into WVW last night on my power rev and was killed by a power mirage. ANET pls nerf power mirage. Its OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 > @"Solori.6025" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > @"herrmartell.7109" said: > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > No you did miss the point, a weaver cannot 100-0 you in 1-2s except on scepter and you'll see it coming as it has poor blinking abilities. A rev can blink on you and 100-0 you from 1500 range. > > > > > > > > > > I dare you to point out which Revenant skill has a 1,500 range. I DARE YOU. > > > > > > > > > > These are the only ways a Revenant can close the gap between you and him: > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frigid_Blitz <= 900 > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathstrike <= 600 > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Devour_Brand <= 1200 (and this one only works underwater) > > > > > > > > > > Now, let's check a Revenant's ranged skills: > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shattershot <= 900 An example of Renegade's range > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hammer_Bolt <= 1200 You can't die vs a Revenant's hammer unless you are sucidal > > > > > > > > > > None of these skills are hard hitters, and none can be spammed. The joke's on you. > > > > > > > > > > > I wouldn't admit to being here since 2014 if you don't understand the difference between a rev 100-0 and a weaver 100-0. > > > > > > > > > > LOL you just keep making a fool out of yourself. > > > > > > > > OK. > > > > > > > > So as others have pointed out Phase Traversal -> Deathstrike is 1800 but a realistic estimate is 1500 and phase traversal grants quickness so you'll get that damage as a +1 from deathstrike most of the time especially when done from such a range if the person doesn't see you. Lets count the skill coefficients: > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathstrike 0.3 > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathstrike_(second_skill) 2.0 > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Precision_Strike 0.49 x3 > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shackling_Wave 2.25 (note cast time increased to just under 1s so more counter to the follow up after DS, quickness makes it about 0.6s) > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unrelenting_Assault 0.57 (I think this is per strike so x5 for 2.8) > > > > > > > > So the best thing to do is PT -> DS -> DS 2nd hit -> Precision Strike for a total of 3.8 in skill coefficients. If instead you used Unrelenting Assault you'd get 5.1, Shackling Wave you'd get 4.5 hence the cast increase we saw in the patch. > > > > > > > > What about weaver though? > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plasma_Beam 2.2 > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Electric_Discharge 0.25 x2 > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Strike 1.2 > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Blast 1.4 > > > > > > > > So clearly if we use all these skill we get a total coefficient of 5.1 FA weaver is the clear winner in burst...but it has to be within 900 range to do it while the rev can be much further away however in range ele can burst slightly faster than the rev depending on which skills rev uses, ele takes about 1.25s while the rev takes 1.5-2s depending on quickness. Ele would have to burn LF do close this gap and is unlikely to do so especially if they wish to use it as part of burst which would be completely unnecessary and a fools move when they're rocking 5.1 in total coefficients. > > > > > > > > That's not the whole picture though, rev can stack as many damage bonuses as ele while getting to and maintaining 25 might which gives 50% more power damage and near 100% crit chance. This gives an exceptionally high amount of damage over weaver especially using burst of strength before hand which would push the damage into competitive levels with a weaver easily. Also ele's follow up is complete garbage while rev maintains high pressure in a +1 role while having the tools to survive if needed. > > > > > > > > That's just on paper, the reality is Rev has vastly outperformed weaver for +1 for a long time now hence why you barely see FA weavers and see revs far more often. > > > > > > > > Rev needs a nerf but so does every class nearly, everything has been dialled up to 11 with HoT then PoF took this even further. > > > > > > It's actually not slightly faster. An Ele burst Much faster than a rev- > > > > > > After Phase Traversal and shackling wave you will have used 45 energy- on a fresh engage that means you then have to switch legends, then continue, then hope you aren't counter bursted, as rev doesn't have the sustain once those skills you listed are used. > > > Like we have to factor in energy for everything a rev does as well. Just listing skills doesn't do any justice as they ( revenants) have to be actively managing resources. > > > > > > > True but you also have to factor in time taken to get to the +1 if they start at the same point, if you PT, DS you've used 45 energy for the +1 but you got there much faster than the ele. If you just use PT + Shackling Wave you covered less distance but you also immob the person which is going to help with follow up but is a slower combo even with quickness. If you PT+Precision strike you retain much more energy but it does less damage. > > > > There's a ton of variables and as you say energy needs to be accounted for as well which is why I only listed 2 skill combos when adding rev coefficients as they can really only use 2 then legend swap and precision strike after that because of it's low cost. That's without mentioning did they use burst of strength and switch to shiro? How much might do they have? Those will affect survivability and damage considerably. > > > > Either way if focused a FA weaver will go down much faster than a rev if they're using arcane blast. If the weaver doesn't use arcane blast (uses arcane shield) the damage from FA weaver is lowered a lot but can get more survivability however at that point rev would burst better no matter the combo. This is why I said that in reality people are and have been using rev instead of FA weaver for a long time now, it's rare enough to see ele's let alone a FA weaver. > > YEa I went in on my rev again. I thought energy regen was much slower than it actually is. > It's quite possible to PT-DS- then follow up with any other 10 cost skill as you should have about 20 ish energy from the regen that kicks in from combat. > Also- > Don't get the wrong idea I am in no way defending rev damage- I'm still salty from the power mirage nerfs ^_^ > I would be more than happy for EVERY POWER BUILD to be as useful as the one I currently enjoy > Rev energy regen is 1 energy every .2 seconds which is 5 energy per second and is not affected by any traits, chill, or alacrity. A pt-ds combo takes 45 energy and A bit less than 1sec to cast. So at the completion of the combo you will be at around 8 or 9 energy and will need to take a slight pause to afford a 10 energy shackling wave or a little over a second for 15 energy unrelenting assault. Side note if you hit a rev with cc at this time they are basically dead since it is 4 secs to afford a stunbreak unless legend swap is off CD meaning meaning they were running around in shiro for at least 8 seconds meaning most of their might stacks from glint would have fallen off so their opening burst would be very weak. You probably tested it in wvw/pve where phase traversal is at 30 energy instead of 35 giving you an extra second of energy to get smoother opening combos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solori.6025 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 > @"ArthurDent.9538" said: > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > @"herrmartell.7109" said: > > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > > No you did miss the point, a weaver cannot 100-0 you in 1-2s except on scepter and you'll see it coming as it has poor blinking abilities. A rev can blink on you and 100-0 you from 1500 range. > > > > > > > > > > > > I dare you to point out which Revenant skill has a 1,500 range. I DARE YOU. > > > > > > > > > > > > These are the only ways a Revenant can close the gap between you and him: > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frigid_Blitz <= 900 > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathstrike <= 600 > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Devour_Brand <= 1200 (and this one only works underwater) > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, let's check a Revenant's ranged skills: > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shattershot <= 900 An example of Renegade's range > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hammer_Bolt <= 1200 You can't die vs a Revenant's hammer unless you are sucidal > > > > > > > > > > > > None of these skills are hard hitters, and none can be spammed. The joke's on you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wouldn't admit to being here since 2014 if you don't understand the difference between a rev 100-0 and a weaver 100-0. > > > > > > > > > > > > LOL you just keep making a fool out of yourself. > > > > > > > > > > OK. > > > > > > > > > > So as others have pointed out Phase Traversal -> Deathstrike is 1800 but a realistic estimate is 1500 and phase traversal grants quickness so you'll get that damage as a +1 from deathstrike most of the time especially when done from such a range if the person doesn't see you. Lets count the skill coefficients: > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathstrike 0.3 > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathstrike_(second_skill) 2.0 > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Precision_Strike 0.49 x3 > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shackling_Wave 2.25 (note cast time increased to just under 1s so more counter to the follow up after DS, quickness makes it about 0.6s) > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unrelenting_Assault 0.57 (I think this is per strike so x5 for 2.8) > > > > > > > > > > So the best thing to do is PT -> DS -> DS 2nd hit -> Precision Strike for a total of 3.8 in skill coefficients. If instead you used Unrelenting Assault you'd get 5.1, Shackling Wave you'd get 4.5 hence the cast increase we saw in the patch. > > > > > > > > > > What about weaver though? > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plasma_Beam 2.2 > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Electric_Discharge 0.25 x2 > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Strike 1.2 > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Blast 1.4 > > > > > > > > > > So clearly if we use all these skill we get a total coefficient of 5.1 FA weaver is the clear winner in burst...but it has to be within 900 range to do it while the rev can be much further away however in range ele can burst slightly faster than the rev depending on which skills rev uses, ele takes about 1.25s while the rev takes 1.5-2s depending on quickness. Ele would have to burn LF do close this gap and is unlikely to do so especially if they wish to use it as part of burst which would be completely unnecessary and a fools move when they're rocking 5.1 in total coefficients. > > > > > > > > > > That's not the whole picture though, rev can stack as many damage bonuses as ele while getting to and maintaining 25 might which gives 50% more power damage and near 100% crit chance. This gives an exceptionally high amount of damage over weaver especially using burst of strength before hand which would push the damage into competitive levels with a weaver easily. Also ele's follow up is complete garbage while rev maintains high pressure in a +1 role while having the tools to survive if needed. > > > > > > > > > > That's just on paper, the reality is Rev has vastly outperformed weaver for +1 for a long time now hence why you barely see FA weavers and see revs far more often. > > > > > > > > > > Rev needs a nerf but so does every class nearly, everything has been dialled up to 11 with HoT then PoF took this even further. > > > > > > > > It's actually not slightly faster. An Ele burst Much faster than a rev- > > > > > > > > After Phase Traversal and shackling wave you will have used 45 energy- on a fresh engage that means you then have to switch legends, then continue, then hope you aren't counter bursted, as rev doesn't have the sustain once those skills you listed are used. > > > > Like we have to factor in energy for everything a rev does as well. Just listing skills doesn't do any justice as they ( revenants) have to be actively managing resources. > > > > > > > > > > True but you also have to factor in time taken to get to the +1 if they start at the same point, if you PT, DS you've used 45 energy for the +1 but you got there much faster than the ele. If you just use PT + Shackling Wave you covered less distance but you also immob the person which is going to help with follow up but is a slower combo even with quickness. If you PT+Precision strike you retain much more energy but it does less damage. > > > > > > There's a ton of variables and as you say energy needs to be accounted for as well which is why I only listed 2 skill combos when adding rev coefficients as they can really only use 2 then legend swap and precision strike after that because of it's low cost. That's without mentioning did they use burst of strength and switch to shiro? How much might do they have? Those will affect survivability and damage considerably. > > > > > > Either way if focused a FA weaver will go down much faster than a rev if they're using arcane blast. If the weaver doesn't use arcane blast (uses arcane shield) the damage from FA weaver is lowered a lot but can get more survivability however at that point rev would burst better no matter the combo. This is why I said that in reality people are and have been using rev instead of FA weaver for a long time now, it's rare enough to see ele's let alone a FA weaver. > > > > YEa I went in on my rev again. I thought energy regen was much slower than it actually is. > > It's quite possible to PT-DS- then follow up with any other 10 cost skill as you should have about 20 ish energy from the regen that kicks in from combat. > > Also- > > Don't get the wrong idea I am in no way defending rev damage- I'm still salty from the power mirage nerfs ^_^ > > I would be more than happy for EVERY POWER BUILD to be as useful as the one I currently enjoy > > > > Rev energy regen is 1 energy every .2 seconds which is 5 energy per second and is not affected by any traits, chill, or alacrity. A pt-ds combo takes 45 energy and A bit less than 1sec to cast. So at the completion of the combo you will be at around 8 or 9 energy and will need to take a slight pause to afford a 10 energy shackling wave or a little over a second for 15 energy unrelenting assault. Side note if you hit a rev with cc at this time they are basically dead since it is 4 secs to afford a stunbreak unless legend swap is off CD meaning meaning they were running around in shiro for at least 8 seconds meaning most of their might stacks from glint would have fallen off so their opening burst would be very weak. You probably tested it in wvw/pve where phase traversal is at 30 energy instead of 35 giving you an extra second of energy to get smoother opening combos. IIRC PhaseTraversal has a small damage hit added to it. If that hits doesn't your energy regen begin at that moment? If we assume that PT hits - finishes it's .2ish aftercast where the rev returns to a standing position, then .5 for theactivation of deathstrike, add in the latency for thesecond command and for it to finish it's cast as well, you should be back to around 10ish energy? While in the mist I was able to chain 3 attacks together, but PT hit the target, havent tried it with not connecting :o Edit: I also hate math....dont make me math T_T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solori.6025 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 > @"Spartacus.3192" said: > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > YEa I went in on my rev again. I thought energy regen was much slower than it actually is. > > It's quite possible to PT-DS- then follow up with any other 10 cost skill as you should have about 20 ish energy from the regen that kicks in from combat. > > Also- > > Don't get the wrong idea I am in no way defending rev damage- I'm still salty from the power mirage nerfs ^_^ > > I would be more than happy for EVERY POWER BUILD to be as useful as the one I currently enjoy > > > > oooh oohhh i wanna play this game. I logged into WVW last night on my power rev and was killed by a power mirage. ANET pls nerf power mirage. Its OP. y r u liek dis *sad pepe* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 > @"ArthurDent.9538" said: > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > @"herrmartell.7109" said: > > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > > No you did miss the point, a weaver cannot 100-0 you in 1-2s except on scepter and you'll see it coming as it has poor blinking abilities. A rev can blink on you and 100-0 you from 1500 range. > > > > > > > > > > > > I dare you to point out which Revenant skill has a 1,500 range. I DARE YOU. > > > > > > > > > > > > These are the only ways a Revenant can close the gap between you and him: > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frigid_Blitz <= 900 > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathstrike <= 600 > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Devour_Brand <= 1200 (and this one only works underwater) > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, let's check a Revenant's ranged skills: > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shattershot <= 900 An example of Renegade's range > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hammer_Bolt <= 1200 You can't die vs a Revenant's hammer unless you are sucidal > > > > > > > > > > > > None of these skills are hard hitters, and none can be spammed. The joke's on you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wouldn't admit to being here since 2014 if you don't understand the difference between a rev 100-0 and a weaver 100-0. > > > > > > > > > > > > LOL you just keep making a fool out of yourself. > > > > > > > > > > OK. > > > > > > > > > > So as others have pointed out Phase Traversal -> Deathstrike is 1800 but a realistic estimate is 1500 and phase traversal grants quickness so you'll get that damage as a +1 from deathstrike most of the time especially when done from such a range if the person doesn't see you. Lets count the skill coefficients: > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathstrike 0.3 > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathstrike_(second_skill) 2.0 > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Precision_Strike 0.49 x3 > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shackling_Wave 2.25 (note cast time increased to just under 1s so more counter to the follow up after DS, quickness makes it about 0.6s) > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unrelenting_Assault 0.57 (I think this is per strike so x5 for 2.8) > > > > > > > > > > So the best thing to do is PT -> DS -> DS 2nd hit -> Precision Strike for a total of 3.8 in skill coefficients. If instead you used Unrelenting Assault you'd get 5.1, Shackling Wave you'd get 4.5 hence the cast increase we saw in the patch. > > > > > > > > > > What about weaver though? > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plasma_Beam 2.2 > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Electric_Discharge 0.25 x2 > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Strike 1.2 > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Blast 1.4 > > > > > > > > > > So clearly if we use all these skill we get a total coefficient of 5.1 FA weaver is the clear winner in burst...but it has to be within 900 range to do it while the rev can be much further away however in range ele can burst slightly faster than the rev depending on which skills rev uses, ele takes about 1.25s while the rev takes 1.5-2s depending on quickness. Ele would have to burn LF do close this gap and is unlikely to do so especially if they wish to use it as part of burst which would be completely unnecessary and a fools move when they're rocking 5.1 in total coefficients. > > > > > > > > > > That's not the whole picture though, rev can stack as many damage bonuses as ele while getting to and maintaining 25 might which gives 50% more power damage and near 100% crit chance. This gives an exceptionally high amount of damage over weaver especially using burst of strength before hand which would push the damage into competitive levels with a weaver easily. Also ele's follow up is complete garbage while rev maintains high pressure in a +1 role while having the tools to survive if needed. > > > > > > > > > > That's just on paper, the reality is Rev has vastly outperformed weaver for +1 for a long time now hence why you barely see FA weavers and see revs far more often. > > > > > > > > > > Rev needs a nerf but so does every class nearly, everything has been dialled up to 11 with HoT then PoF took this even further. > > > > > > > > It's actually not slightly faster. An Ele burst Much faster than a rev- > > > > > > > > After Phase Traversal and shackling wave you will have used 45 energy- on a fresh engage that means you then have to switch legends, then continue, then hope you aren't counter bursted, as rev doesn't have the sustain once those skills you listed are used. > > > > Like we have to factor in energy for everything a rev does as well. Just listing skills doesn't do any justice as they ( revenants) have to be actively managing resources. > > > > > > > > > > True but you also have to factor in time taken to get to the +1 if they start at the same point, if you PT, DS you've used 45 energy for the +1 but you got there much faster than the ele. If you just use PT + Shackling Wave you covered less distance but you also immob the person which is going to help with follow up but is a slower combo even with quickness. If you PT+Precision strike you retain much more energy but it does less damage. > > > > > > There's a ton of variables and as you say energy needs to be accounted for as well which is why I only listed 2 skill combos when adding rev coefficients as they can really only use 2 then legend swap and precision strike after that because of it's low cost. That's without mentioning did they use burst of strength and switch to shiro? How much might do they have? Those will affect survivability and damage considerably. > > > > > > Either way if focused a FA weaver will go down much faster than a rev if they're using arcane blast. If the weaver doesn't use arcane blast (uses arcane shield) the damage from FA weaver is lowered a lot but can get more survivability however at that point rev would burst better no matter the combo. This is why I said that in reality people are and have been using rev instead of FA weaver for a long time now, it's rare enough to see ele's let alone a FA weaver. > > > > YEa I went in on my rev again. I thought energy regen was much slower than it actually is. > > It's quite possible to PT-DS- then follow up with any other 10 cost skill as you should have about 20 ish energy from the regen that kicks in from combat. > > Also- > > Don't get the wrong idea I am in no way defending rev damage- I'm still salty from the power mirage nerfs ^_^ > > I would be more than happy for EVERY POWER BUILD to be as useful as the one I currently enjoy > > > > Rev energy regen is 1 energy every .2 seconds which is 5 energy per second and is not affected by any traits, chill, or alacrity. A pt-ds combo takes 45 energy and A bit less than 1sec to cast. So at the completion of the combo you will be at around 8 or 9 energy and will need to take a slight pause to afford a 10 energy shackling wave or a little over a second for 15 energy unrelenting assault. Side note if you hit a rev with cc at this time they are basically dead since it is 4 secs to afford a stunbreak unless legend swap is off CD meaning meaning they were running around in shiro for at least 8 seconds meaning most of their might stacks from glint would have fallen off so their opening burst would be very weak. You probably tested it in wvw/pve where phase traversal is at 30 energy instead of 35 giving you an extra second of energy to get smoother opening combos. Yes the shiro trap (as I'm calling it) is a very unforgiving lesson and I've fallen into the problem of going shiro, using a utility skill and bam no energy a few times. Takes a while to get used to it but once you've properly sorted out your rotations and made sure you're not engaging without a stunbreak you're fine. I've always thought charged mists was interesting as a source of bonus energy for going shiro and getting more from shiro....but it's not comparable to Song of the Mists let alone Roiling Mists, near 100% crit is just so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus.3192 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 > @"Solori.6025" said: > > @"Spartacus.3192" said: > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > YEa I went in on my rev again. I thought energy regen was much slower than it actually is. > > > It's quite possible to PT-DS- then follow up with any other 10 cost skill as you should have about 20 ish energy from the regen that kicks in from combat. > > > Also- > > > Don't get the wrong idea I am in no way defending rev damage- I'm still salty from the power mirage nerfs ^_^ > > > I would be more than happy for EVERY POWER BUILD to be as useful as the one I currently enjoy > > > > > > > oooh oohhh i wanna play this game. I logged into WVW last night on my power rev and was killed by a power mirage. ANET pls nerf power mirage. Its OP. > > y r u liek dis > *sad pepe* haha just get tired of everyone always complaining everytime they die to a class. Given Anet's history they probably will listen and do something so might as well add to the noise to counterbalance the other posts. just to clarify Power mirage is fine. Condi not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 > @"Solori.6025" said: > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said: > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > > @"herrmartell.7109" said: > > > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > > > No you did miss the point, a weaver cannot 100-0 you in 1-2s except on scepter and you'll see it coming as it has poor blinking abilities. A rev can blink on you and 100-0 you from 1500 range. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dare you to point out which Revenant skill has a 1,500 range. I DARE YOU. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These are the only ways a Revenant can close the gap between you and him: > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frigid_Blitz <= 900 > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathstrike <= 600 > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Devour_Brand <= 1200 (and this one only works underwater) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, let's check a Revenant's ranged skills: > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shattershot <= 900 An example of Renegade's range > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hammer_Bolt <= 1200 You can't die vs a Revenant's hammer unless you are sucidal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > None of these skills are hard hitters, and none can be spammed. The joke's on you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wouldn't admit to being here since 2014 if you don't understand the difference between a rev 100-0 and a weaver 100-0. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LOL you just keep making a fool out of yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. > > > > > > > > > > > > So as others have pointed out Phase Traversal -> Deathstrike is 1800 but a realistic estimate is 1500 and phase traversal grants quickness so you'll get that damage as a +1 from deathstrike most of the time especially when done from such a range if the person doesn't see you. Lets count the skill coefficients: > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathstrike 0.3 > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathstrike_(second_skill) 2.0 > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Precision_Strike 0.49 x3 > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shackling_Wave 2.25 (note cast time increased to just under 1s so more counter to the follow up after DS, quickness makes it about 0.6s) > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unrelenting_Assault 0.57 (I think this is per strike so x5 for 2.8) > > > > > > > > > > > > So the best thing to do is PT -> DS -> DS 2nd hit -> Precision Strike for a total of 3.8 in skill coefficients. If instead you used Unrelenting Assault you'd get 5.1, Shackling Wave you'd get 4.5 hence the cast increase we saw in the patch. > > > > > > > > > > > > What about weaver though? > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plasma_Beam 2.2 > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Electric_Discharge 0.25 x2 > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Strike 1.2 > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Blast 1.4 > > > > > > > > > > > > So clearly if we use all these skill we get a total coefficient of 5.1 FA weaver is the clear winner in burst...but it has to be within 900 range to do it while the rev can be much further away however in range ele can burst slightly faster than the rev depending on which skills rev uses, ele takes about 1.25s while the rev takes 1.5-2s depending on quickness. Ele would have to burn LF do close this gap and is unlikely to do so especially if they wish to use it as part of burst which would be completely unnecessary and a fools move when they're rocking 5.1 in total coefficients. > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not the whole picture though, rev can stack as many damage bonuses as ele while getting to and maintaining 25 might which gives 50% more power damage and near 100% crit chance. This gives an exceptionally high amount of damage over weaver especially using burst of strength before hand which would push the damage into competitive levels with a weaver easily. Also ele's follow up is complete garbage while rev maintains high pressure in a +1 role while having the tools to survive if needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > That's just on paper, the reality is Rev has vastly outperformed weaver for +1 for a long time now hence why you barely see FA weavers and see revs far more often. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rev needs a nerf but so does every class nearly, everything has been dialled up to 11 with HoT then PoF took this even further. > > > > > > > > > > It's actually not slightly faster. An Ele burst Much faster than a rev- > > > > > > > > > > After Phase Traversal and shackling wave you will have used 45 energy- on a fresh engage that means you then have to switch legends, then continue, then hope you aren't counter bursted, as rev doesn't have the sustain once those skills you listed are used. > > > > > Like we have to factor in energy for everything a rev does as well. Just listing skills doesn't do any justice as they ( revenants) have to be actively managing resources. > > > > > > > > > > > > > True but you also have to factor in time taken to get to the +1 if they start at the same point, if you PT, DS you've used 45 energy for the +1 but you got there much faster than the ele. If you just use PT + Shackling Wave you covered less distance but you also immob the person which is going to help with follow up but is a slower combo even with quickness. If you PT+Precision strike you retain much more energy but it does less damage. > > > > > > > > There's a ton of variables and as you say energy needs to be accounted for as well which is why I only listed 2 skill combos when adding rev coefficients as they can really only use 2 then legend swap and precision strike after that because of it's low cost. That's without mentioning did they use burst of strength and switch to shiro? How much might do they have? Those will affect survivability and damage considerably. > > > > > > > > Either way if focused a FA weaver will go down much faster than a rev if they're using arcane blast. If the weaver doesn't use arcane blast (uses arcane shield) the damage from FA weaver is lowered a lot but can get more survivability however at that point rev would burst better no matter the combo. This is why I said that in reality people are and have been using rev instead of FA weaver for a long time now, it's rare enough to see ele's let alone a FA weaver. > > > > > > YEa I went in on my rev again. I thought energy regen was much slower than it actually is. > > > It's quite possible to PT-DS- then follow up with any other 10 cost skill as you should have about 20 ish energy from the regen that kicks in from combat. > > > Also- > > > Don't get the wrong idea I am in no way defending rev damage- I'm still salty from the power mirage nerfs ^_^ > > > I would be more than happy for EVERY POWER BUILD to be as useful as the one I currently enjoy > > > > > > > Rev energy regen is 1 energy every .2 seconds which is 5 energy per second and is not affected by any traits, chill, or alacrity. A pt-ds combo takes 45 energy and A bit less than 1sec to cast. So at the completion of the combo you will be at around 8 or 9 energy and will need to take a slight pause to afford a 10 energy shackling wave or a little over a second for 15 energy unrelenting assault. Side note if you hit a rev with cc at this time they are basically dead since it is 4 secs to afford a stunbreak unless legend swap is off CD meaning meaning they were running around in shiro for at least 8 seconds meaning most of their might stacks from glint would have fallen off so their opening burst would be very weak. You probably tested it in wvw/pve where phase traversal is at 30 energy instead of 35 giving you an extra second of energy to get smoother opening combos. > > IIRC PhaseTraversal has a small damage hit added to it. If that hits doesn't your energy regen begin at that moment? > If we assume that PT hits - finishes it's .2ish aftercast where the rev returns to a standing position, then .5 for theactivation of deathstrike, add in the latency for thesecond command and for it to finish it's cast as well, you should be back to around 10ish energy? > > While in the mist I was able to chain 3 attacks together, but PT hit the target, havent tried it with not connecting :o > > Edit: I also hate math....dont make me math T_T Yes PT does a 1.0 coefficient strike and gives you 2 unblockable hits with a damage boost and gives quickness regardless of striking. It's a really nice skill, objectively overloaded but I think for it's energy cost that does justify the amount in some ways. Personally I'd love to see the cost reduced by about 10 for no damage buff from the skill, I feel like Shiro should be able to use it frequently but that really can't be allowed at the same time that it's giving so much. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Traversal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solori.6025 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 > @"Spartacus.3192" said: > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > @"Spartacus.3192" said: > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > > YEa I went in on my rev again. I thought energy regen was much slower than it actually is. > > > > It's quite possible to PT-DS- then follow up with any other 10 cost skill as you should have about 20 ish energy from the regen that kicks in from combat. > > > > Also- > > > > Don't get the wrong idea I am in no way defending rev damage- I'm still salty from the power mirage nerfs ^_^ > > > > I would be more than happy for EVERY POWER BUILD to be as useful as the one I currently enjoy > > > > > > > > > > oooh oohhh i wanna play this game. I logged into WVW last night on my power rev and was killed by a power mirage. ANET pls nerf power mirage. Its OP. > > > > y r u liek dis > > *sad pepe* > > haha just get tired of everyone always complaining everytime they die to a class. Given Anet's history they probably will listen and do something so might as well add to the noise to counterbalance the other posts. > > just to clarify Power mirage is fine. Condi not so much. Same. Like I wouldn't mind if people that complained about a class, stated a reasonable situation, knew exactly what skill or combo was performed, made efforts to emulate the same combo, then presented the argument with viable, alternative solutions that took into account the strengths and weaknesses of the class. Is that asking too much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 > @"Spartacus.3192" said: > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > @"Spartacus.3192" said: > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > > YEa I went in on my rev again. I thought energy regen was much slower than it actually is. > > > > It's quite possible to PT-DS- then follow up with any other 10 cost skill as you should have about 20 ish energy from the regen that kicks in from combat. > > > > Also- > > > > Don't get the wrong idea I am in no way defending rev damage- I'm still salty from the power mirage nerfs ^_^ > > > > I would be more than happy for EVERY POWER BUILD to be as useful as the one I currently enjoy > > > > > > > > > > oooh oohhh i wanna play this game. I logged into WVW last night on my power rev and was killed by a power mirage. ANET pls nerf power mirage. Its OP. > > > > y r u liek dis > > *sad pepe* > > haha just get tired of everyone always complaining everytime they die to a class. Given Anet's history they probably will listen and do something so might as well add to the noise to counterbalance the other posts. > > just to clarify Power mirage is fine. Condi not so much. I think the issue is people aren't properly putting it in context. For me Rev is doing too much damage but so is every other meta build and active defences at the moment would be overbearing if left untouched while damage is nerfed. There's also a lot of builds that do really high damage without really investing in damage, I'll say this about revenant, at least it takes it's power damage line devastation! It's why I created a poll about whether people thought damage was too high, fine, too low and asked them to put context in the comments. Yes this is a shameless plug to help keep it seen by devs and people as only comments keep it bumped up on the front page. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63078/is-damage-too-high/p1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"Spartacus.3192" said: > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > @"Spartacus.3192" said: > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > > > > YEa I went in on my rev again. I thought energy regen was much slower than it actually is. > > > > > It's quite possible to PT-DS- then follow up with any other 10 cost skill as you should have about 20 ish energy from the regen that kicks in from combat. > > > > > Also- > > > > > Don't get the wrong idea I am in no way defending rev damage- I'm still salty from the power mirage nerfs ^_^ > > > > > I would be more than happy for EVERY POWER BUILD to be as useful as the one I currently enjoy > > > > > > > > > > > > > oooh oohhh i wanna play this game. I logged into WVW last night on my power rev and was killed by a power mirage. ANET pls nerf power mirage. Its OP. > > > > > > y r u liek dis > > > *sad pepe* > > > > haha just get tired of everyone always complaining everytime they die to a class. Given Anet's history they probably will listen and do something so might as well add to the noise to counterbalance the other posts. > > > > just to clarify Power mirage is fine. Condi not so much. > > I think the issue is people aren't properly putting it in context. For me Rev is doing too much damage but so is every other meta build and active defences at the moment would be overbearing if left untouched while damage is nerfed. There's also a lot of builds that do really high damage without really investing in damage, I'll say this about revenant, at least it takes it's power damage line devastation! > > It's why I created a poll about whether people thought damage was too high, fine, too low and asked them to put context in the comments. Yes this is a shameless plug to help keep it seen by devs and people as only comments keep it bumped up on the front page. > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63078/is-damage-too-high/p1 The sad thing is, I don’t think Balance Devs have any incentive to Nerf both Damage and Defense in a well thought out manner, history has shown a lack of restraint and only pure knee jerk reactions in most cases. I have been saying it for years that they need to look at both Damage and Defenses needing nerfs to have a healthy PvP game yet here we still are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forgotten by Jana.7819 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Rev is the most balanced class out there . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alatar.7364 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > just few minutes ago; i was hit with 10k+ with this skill https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Smash This skill has a 1¼ recharge. I suggest Anet to reduce its effects and increase its charges. > No, this skill has a 8 seconds recharge and no charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solori.6025 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > just few minutes ago; i was hit with 10k+ with this skill https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Smash This skill has a 1¼ recharge. I suggest Anet to reduce its effects and increase its charges. > > > > No, this skill has a 8 seconds recharge and no charges. See this is why you need to learn things about classes @Burnfall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ketsu.4569 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 ITT people who don't understand the energy system get outplayed by people who do. ZOmG Rev can evade multiple times in a row with shrio RS! Yeah and then have the energy left over for ...*drumroll*... Absolutely nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugheszie.6291 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > ITT people who don't understand the energy system get outplayed by people who do. > > ZOmG Rev can evade multiple times in a row with shrio RS! Yeah and then have the energy left over for ...*drumroll*... Absolutely nothing else. > > bUt i WaS kIlLeD bY rEv, PlZ NeRf! Is bascially how players who don't want to try different tactics are acting towards classes, in all MMOS. It needs to stop and devs need to stop listening to the tiny amount of those players and ruining classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apolo.5942 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Please... Here is the poll about current OP clases. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63182/most-op-class-dec-14-2018/p1 Revenant is not even on the radar with a meager 2% of the votes unlike mesmer and ranger who both have 35%+ of the votes. There are much higher priorities which really do have a consensus on being broken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ario.8964 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Rev is barely hanging in the meta as it is. It doesn't possess the same access to spammable defenses every other class has, it doesn't have stab so cc is a good counter. The only reason rev is useable right now is because OH sword can near 1 shot people. Nerf that damage and you will see rev enter another period of utter uselessness. Rev is in need of buffs more than nerfs, but nerfs to OH sword would be welcome when the other issues are addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderzShadow.2506 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 > @"DaShi.1368" said: > I just played against one and lost badly. High damage, high evades, high cc, instant teleport, unblockable attacks, and no cooldown on skills. How do you counter something like that? High evades, **no.** no cd on skills, **no.** high CC, **not anymore than any other class**. What class are you playing? I started up a Rev a month ago, I suggest you do the same. It is a challenging experience. I suggest you start in Bronze and try to move to plat with a Rev. I'll tell you what rev does not have good heal Terrible Condi Clear Easy access to stab Blocks dmg immunes 'significant ranged' attacks pets stealth escapability. No plethora of builds. Everyone knows what a Rev is going to do. Also, Rev has -Energy gated abilities plus Cooldowns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderzShadow.2506 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > rev..shiro/glint "can have a lot" of evades when they go defensive mode. seen it many times where they chained dodge rip shadows dodge rip shadows staff #5 another dodge swapping back to glint with full energy, all the time they are kiting away. I just started playing Rev recently, thanks for the tips :P But rly, more evades than my soulbeast? sword/dagger 2 leaps from sword 2, an evade from sword 3 an evade from dagger 4 and a 1200 Leap from my bird Add in a solid heal that cleanses condis Stealth Immune to dmg Easy access to stab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avigrus.2871 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said: > I think we can say that according to 99% of the playerbase, every class needs a nerf so long as it's not the class they play Except Ele.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus.3192 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 > @"Avigrus.2871" said: > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said: > > I think we can say that according to 99% of the playerbase, every class needs a nerf so long as it's not the class they play > > Except Ele.. nah people will still want it nerfed. "just to be sure" :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Crinny.6190 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 > @"Spartacus.3192" said: > > @"Avigrus.2871" said: > > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said: > > > I think we can say that according to 99% of the playerbase, every class needs a nerf so long as it's not the class they play > > > > Except Ele.. > > nah people will still want it nerfed. "just to be sure" :lol: yeah i hear Riptide has some amazing heals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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