Astralporing.1957 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > Might as well have some legendary equipment thats actually based on something besides pay to win, or show up and chat to win. > > > > > > > > They already have legendaries based on 'something besides pay to win.' Read: Every legendary released so far. > > > > > > Haha collecting currency on a map? That's just showing up and pressing 1 just like raids and wvw. The other half of the process of crafting them is straight up gold which is pay 2 win. Or in my case playing the top. No skill or gameplay required for that half of the recipe. > > > > Weird, I was roaming in WvW a while back and ran into a group of three hostiles, all from the same guild, at a camp. Just pressing 1 was not sufficient to win. > > Oh I was talking about a zerg, u press one and things die. Yes... you die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasimir.6239 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"Rasimir.6239" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > Might as well have some legendary equipment thats actually based on something besides pay to win, or show up and chat to win. > > > > > > > > > > > > They already have legendaries based on 'something besides pay to win.' Read: Every legendary released so far. > > > > > > > > > > Haha collecting currency on a map? That's just showing up and pressing 1 just like raids and wvw. The other half of the process of crafting them is straight up gold which is pay 2 win. Or in my case playing the top. No skill or gameplay required for that half of the recipe. > > > > > > > > Weird, I was roaming in WvW a while back and ran into a group of three hostiles, all from the same guild, at a camp. Just pressing 1 was not sufficient to win. > > > > > > Oh I was talking about a zerg, u press one and things die. Funny thing is that if I was in a zerg pressing 1 vs you roaming 3v1 I'm getting 10x more rewards then you would be. See the problem. > > You mean the problem of people having fun playing smallscale/solo while you are not enjoying your time playing with the zerg? That sure sounds like a problem, but the fix is right there :D . > > Yah and where is the reward for the higher level of skill. Almost nothing in this game rewards that, it only rewards teamwork, skill is irrelevant, which is the point of my post. I don't think you understood what I was trying to say ;) . When I smallscale in WvW, I get a ton of rewards. I get some loot, karma, wxp from fighting players, guards, dolyaks, taking camps, towers, and even the occasional keep if the map happens to be empty, but that really is only on the sideline. I do get considerable loot from the reward tracks I have running, and those don't care if I run around solo or in a blob. Most important for me though is that I get a ton of fun and satisfaction from that kind of play, wether solo or with a friend or two, that no amount of boring karma training, no matter if in wvw or anywhere else, can give me. There's more to rewards than just gold and prestige, just as there's more to achieve in life than just money and prestige. Just last night I was fooling around on EBG with my husband and a very good friend. We built a golem and tried a sneaky attack on an opposing tower. Suddenly there was an outcry of "mom, what is that golem supposed to mean???" from the next room, and up come my teenage daughter and her boyfriend (we're playing against their server this week) to defend said tower. In the end there were a lot more defenders that eventually wiped us (with me making my first sneaky golem exit since I just recently fully skilled that line), but we did hold out a good while and had a ton of fun. Seeing how playing the game is my entertainment time, that fun is imensely more valuable to me than even a hundred gold in loot could be. If you want "reward" for your skill, it's there in the fun and satisfaction you get from pulling off whatever it is you try to do in game that doesn't come easy to you. Nobody cares if you push some garish skin in their face just to show that you are better than them. If you can't find enough fun and satisfaction in what you do, maybe the problem is a lot deeper than just "no reward for higher level skill". Btw, spending your time in a way that leads to your well-being is also a kind of skill that many people today seem to not possess ;) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TamX.1870 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108", I think I have sort of understood what you are after. Not sure thought, but if Queen's Gauntlet is one example what you are looking for, then I know what you mean. I would count out WoW-like grinding of abandoned and outleveled instances from this. Yes, they may give you skins and such, as well as old achievements, outdated gear pieces and abandoned currencies, but they are hardly count as challenging & rewarding solo content. Yes, true, the previous game I played - happening to be one of those many WoW-clones - rewarded in to some extent if undermanning instances, but only if you undermanned the newest ones, at hardest tier. Soloing such were definitely challenging solo content, but most of those looking for such challenge did it only once, as it usually took too much time to be anything profitable - it was still better to grind them with groups. Undermanning group content is probably always possible. If group content can't be undermanned when people are experienced enough, it is tremendously hard for experienced players when they are new with the content, and, more importantly, if it can't be undermanned, you can never take newcomers (players who are new with that instance, but hopefully experienced on their class) to a group to teach them the instance secrets. This game does not reward from that, which is IMO just fine: experts who can underman the instance are still not punished if taking some extra players with them. The problem here is such, that if game has lots of rewarding solo content, it becomes from MMO to a single player game with in-game chat as option. On the other hand, if group content is kept rewarding and made soloable, it becomes a grind fest, because it is then far too easy for groups. Most MMOs, no matter if concentrating on PvE or PvP side, including WoW and all its clones, try to offer group content, and they try to give incentives for players to group up for content. It is their advantage over single player games. I wouldn't mind if we see bit more content like Queen's Gauntlet, and hopefully 1vs1 ranked queues at some point, but at the same time, I think that an MMO PvE gives up its greatest strength over single player games if it is not based on grouping. Online PvP games you can have - and we have a lot - that are entirely single player games (like poker, chess, fortnite). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > Might as well have some legendary equipment thats actually based on something besides pay to win, or show up and chat to win. > > > > > > > > > > They already have legendaries based on 'something besides pay to win.' Read: Every legendary released so far. > > > > > > > > Haha collecting currency on a map? That's just showing up and pressing 1 just like raids and wvw. The other half of the process of crafting them is straight up gold which is pay 2 win. Or in my case playing the top. No skill or gameplay required for that half of the recipe. > > > > > > Weird, I was roaming in WvW a while back and ran into a group of three hostiles, all from the same guild, at a camp. Just pressing 1 was not sufficient to win. > > > > Oh I was talking about a zerg, u press one and things die. > Yes... you die. > > Lol u can spam one for hours and as long as you stay in the center u wont die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 > @"Rasimir.6239" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"Rasimir.6239" said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > Might as well have some legendary equipment thats actually based on something besides pay to win, or show up and chat to win. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They already have legendaries based on 'something besides pay to win.' Read: Every legendary released so far. > > > > > > > > > > > > Haha collecting currency on a map? That's just showing up and pressing 1 just like raids and wvw. The other half of the process of crafting them is straight up gold which is pay 2 win. Or in my case playing the top. No skill or gameplay required for that half of the recipe. > > > > > > > > > > Weird, I was roaming in WvW a while back and ran into a group of three hostiles, all from the same guild, at a camp. Just pressing 1 was not sufficient to win. > > > > > > > > Oh I was talking about a zerg, u press one and things die. Funny thing is that if I was in a zerg pressing 1 vs you roaming 3v1 I'm getting 10x more rewards then you would be. See the problem. > > > You mean the problem of people having fun playing smallscale/solo while you are not enjoying your time playing with the zerg? That sure sounds like a problem, but the fix is right there :D . > > > > Yah and where is the reward for the higher level of skill. Almost nothing in this game rewards that, it only rewards teamwork, skill is irrelevant, which is the point of my post. > > I don't think you understood what I was trying to say ;) . > > When I smallscale in WvW, I get a ton of rewards. I get some loot, karma, wxp from fighting players, guards, dolyaks, taking camps, towers, and even the occasional keep if the map happens to be empty, but that really is only on the sideline. I do get considerable loot from the reward tracks I have running, and those don't care if I run around solo or in a blob. > > Most important for me though is that I get a ton of fun and satisfaction from that kind of play, wether solo or with a friend or two, that no amount of boring karma training, no matter if in wvw or anywhere else, can give me. There's more to rewards than just gold and prestige, just as there's more to achieve in life than just money and prestige. > > Just last night I was fooling around on EBG with my husband and a very good friend. We built a golem and tried a sneaky attack on an opposing tower. Suddenly there was an outcry of "mom, what is that golem supposed to mean???" from the next room, and up come my teenage daughter and her boyfriend (we're playing against their server this week) to defend said tower. In the end there were a lot more defenders that eventually wiped us (with me making my first sneaky golem exit since I just recently fully skilled that line), but we did hold out a good while and had a ton of fun. Seeing how playing the game is my entertainment time, that fun is imensely more valuable to me than even a hundred gold in loot could be. > > If you want "reward" for your skill, it's there in the fun and satisfaction you get from pulling off whatever it is you try to do in game that doesn't come easy to you. Nobody cares if you push some garish skin in their face just to show that you are better than them. If you can't find enough fun and satisfaction in what you do, maybe the problem is a lot deeper than just "no reward for higher level skill". > > Btw, spending your time in a way that leads to your well-being is also a kind of skill that many people today seem to not possess ;) . You're not actually suggesting that you get more rewards from solo roaming in wvw then you do in a zerg are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasimir.6239 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"Rasimir.6239" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"Rasimir.6239" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > Might as well have some legendary equipment thats actually based on something besides pay to win, or show up and chat to win. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They already have legendaries based on 'something besides pay to win.' Read: Every legendary released so far. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Haha collecting currency on a map? That's just showing up and pressing 1 just like raids and wvw. The other half of the process of crafting them is straight up gold which is pay 2 win. Or in my case playing the top. No skill or gameplay required for that half of the recipe. > > > > > > > > > > > > Weird, I was roaming in WvW a while back and ran into a group of three hostiles, all from the same guild, at a camp. Just pressing 1 was not sufficient to win. > > > > > > > > > > Oh I was talking about a zerg, u press one and things die. Funny thing is that if I was in a zerg pressing 1 vs you roaming 3v1 I'm getting 10x more rewards then you would be. See the problem. > > > > You mean the problem of people having fun playing smallscale/solo while you are not enjoying your time playing with the zerg? That sure sounds like a problem, but the fix is right there :D . > > > > > > Yah and where is the reward for the higher level of skill. Almost nothing in this game rewards that, it only rewards teamwork, skill is irrelevant, which is the point of my post. > > > > I don't think you understood what I was trying to say ;) . > > > > When I smallscale in WvW, I get a ton of rewards. I get some loot, karma, wxp from fighting players, guards, dolyaks, taking camps, towers, and even the occasional keep if the map happens to be empty, but that really is only on the sideline. I do get considerable loot from the reward tracks I have running, and those don't care if I run around solo or in a blob. > > > > Most important for me though is that I get a ton of fun and satisfaction from that kind of play, wether solo or with a friend or two, that no amount of boring karma training, no matter if in wvw or anywhere else, can give me. There's more to rewards than just gold and prestige, just as there's more to achieve in life than just money and prestige. > > > > Just last night I was fooling around on EBG with my husband and a very good friend. We built a golem and tried a sneaky attack on an opposing tower. Suddenly there was an outcry of "mom, what is that golem supposed to mean???" from the next room, and up come my teenage daughter and her boyfriend (we're playing against their server this week) to defend said tower. In the end there were a lot more defenders that eventually wiped us (with me making my first sneaky golem exit since I just recently fully skilled that line), but we did hold out a good while and had a ton of fun. Seeing how playing the game is my entertainment time, that fun is imensely more valuable to me than even a hundred gold in loot could be. > > > > If you want "reward" for your skill, it's there in the fun and satisfaction you get from pulling off whatever it is you try to do in game that doesn't come easy to you. Nobody cares if you push some garish skin in their face just to show that you are better than them. If you can't find enough fun and satisfaction in what you do, maybe the problem is a lot deeper than just "no reward for higher level skill". > > > > Btw, spending your time in a way that leads to your well-being is also a kind of skill that many people today seem to not possess ;) . > > You're not actually suggesting that you get more rewards from solo roaming in wvw then you do in a zerg are you? I'm not suggesting anything. I'm saying that I'm getting a lot more of the rewards that are valuable to me (fun and satisfaction) solo and smallscale, while I get mostly boredom running with a zerg. To me my entertainment time is too valuable to waste it on boring activities, no matter what else is given to me to go with the boredom. Incidentally that's also one of the reasons why I rarely ever watch tv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuks.8241 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 I think you should focus more on the game than the rewards. This is not a classic mmo where you need to grind all the time to stay relevant for the current content. You can get geared for pretty much anything in no time. The reward is the game not the pixel armor at the end. You can easily find yourself a challenge if you want it. But if you want rainning loot I think you should play something with loot boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 Since the last threads accepted answer is that yes, teamwork is rewarded over skill. I'd like to propose that single player content which requires a high degree of skill be introduced to the game. This can be done via solo dungeons, rollerbeetle races, jumping puzzles like mad king tower. Anything that allows us to utilize high level gaming skill with no help or carry from others. As such there should also be a very exclusive rewards for solo achieving such feats, comparable to the skill and time put in to obtain said reward. This is a fine departure from every other game mode or activity in gw2 which usually allows a player to show up and posses an average amount or less then average amount of skill, but as long as a player can be carried by others or simply shows up, is handsomely rewarded nonetheless. This devalues items since they can all be obtained via showing up or being carried or by opening our wallets. This results in everyone standing around with the same legendaries and it dosent feel unique or exclusive obtaining them, because everyone else has them. Why not use a players skill to be the determining factor in whether a legendary is exclusive or difficult to obtain. This seems much more logical to me then the current methods of obtaining the legendaries we have. Tldr: Add in exclusive rewards which can only be obtained via an individual's skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starhunter.6015 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Doesn't gen2 legendaries pretty much cover this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauried.5608 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Its an MMO, not a single player game. Far too much effort for Devs to develop single player content for a tiny subset of the player base. The entire concept of exclusive rewards goes against everything that MMOs are designed for. The entire game is based on teamwork, not skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airdive.2613 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Within a week there will be guides and step-by-step walkthroughs on the internet, then someone will find a way to cheese the content and thus exclusive rewards will lose their credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolliemonkeyboi.6481 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 I'v been a solo player since launch and in some ways, yes. i think soloable, high skill content would be nice. That said, fairly easy multiplayer content can be quite challenging for a solo player. unique rewards already exist in the game ("everyone" doesnt have a legendary. i dont) and the wardrobe system allows you to create a unique character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauried.5608 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Getting a legendary or a unique character via the wardrobe system is not skill related, it just involved a time investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 > @"mauried.5608" said: > Its an MMO, not a single player game. > Far too much effort for Devs to develop single player content for a tiny subset of the player base. > The entire concept of exclusive rewards goes against everything that MMOs are designed for. > The entire game is based on teamwork, not skill. > I'd like to think that the entire game is based on teamwork AND skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauried.5608 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 But what do you mean by skill? The only skill thats relevant to playing an MMO, is being able to punch buttons on a keyboard fast enuf and being able to move a mouse around quickly. If a player has a poor internet connection with high latency, all the skill in the world wont help them in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 > @"starhunter.6015" said: > Doesn't gen2 legendaries pretty much cover this ? Well one third is obtained by showing up to meta events and pressing 1 the other 2/3s is by mindlessly playing the game to earn gold, opening your wallet or playing the tp. Where does an individual's skill come into play with these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 > @"mauried.5608" said: > But what do you mean by skill? > The only skill thats relevant to playing an MMO, is being able to punch buttons on a keyboard fast enuf and being able to move a mouse around quickly. > If a player has a poor internet connection with high latency, all the skill in the world wont help them in the game. > I already said a new difficult dungeon that can only be soloed. A very difficult jumping puzzle like mad kings clock tower but make it harder and throw in random elements and make it time sensitive. Or a very difficult rollerbeetle mount race that throws out hazards or random elements and has to be completed in a very tight window of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 > @"mauried.5608" said: > But what do you mean by skill? > The only skill thats relevant to playing an MMO, is being able to punch buttons on a keyboard fast enuf and being able to move a mouse around quickly. > If a player has a poor internet connection with high latency, all the skill in the world wont help them in the game. > Hey listen, man. I roll my face across the keyboard faster than ANYONE. Why am I not #1 in PvP already? Something's up with that. I think everyone else is cheating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > I already said a new difficult dungeon that can only be soloed. A very difficult jumping puzzle like mad kings clock tower but make it harder and throw in random elements and make it time sensitive. Or a very difficult rollerbeetle mount race that throws out hazards or random elements and has to be completed in a very tight window of time. In my opinion these suggestions would target such a small sub-set of the GW population such that ANet wouldn't see fit to spend resources toward them. However, if you are able to show enough player interest and enthusiasm, then they might. /me shrugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > I already said a new difficult dungeon that can only be soloed. A very difficult jumping puzzle like mad kings clock tower but make it harder and throw in random elements and make it time sensitive. Or a very difficult rollerbeetle mount race that throws out hazards or random elements and has to be completed in a very tight window of time. > In my opinion these suggestions would target such a small sub-set of the GW population such that ANet wouldn't see fit to spend resources toward them. However, if you are able to show enough player interest and enthusiasm, then they might. > > /me shrugs > Yah but they made raids and almost nobody does those, this would be much easier to implement and balance then that endeavour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipso.8653 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 > @"mauried.5608" said: > Its an MMO, not a single player game. > Far too much effort for Devs to develop single player content for a tiny subset of the player base. > The entire concept of exclusive rewards goes against everything that MMOs are designed for. > The entire game is based on teamwork, not skill. > GW2 is more of a single player game than anything else. You don't even have to interact with other players, ever, they might as well be NPC's in most cases. It's more like Massively Single Player Online that just happens to have other solo players logged in at the same time. WvW is the most social aspect of this game, and also the most neglected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaFishBob.6518 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 I get your sentiment but if this kind of suggestion would have any chance, it really needs to address the potential benefits to Anet such that they might see it worth diverting resources and accepting the risks at trying to make this kind of content if you want the best results coming out of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 The OP has suggested adding unique/exclusive rewards...but no compelling reason for ANet to do so. There is a correlation between time spent playing, on average, and income from the game. Is there such a correlation between skill gated exclusive rewards and average spending on the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Hot was such a type of difficult content, which was repeatedly nerfed because it was too hard for the average players. Anet had limited too much to the tryhard crowd. And with no gearprogression, the only reward is skins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palador.2170 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 So, is this about wanting harder single player content? Or is this really about wanting exclusive rewards? To be honest, this sounds like what the "we want raids" crowd used to say. "Give us the content we want! And then, you have to give us special rewards for doing it!" No. The content should be reward enough. If you need some bright and shiny pixel toy to show the world what a special snowflake you are, then it's not about the game at all. Content most people can't finish means content most people are not enjoying, and if everyone finishes it then the rewards are hardly the exclusive items you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts