a wild hypothesis of the of the water dragon

[Castigator.3470]

> @"Knuckle Joe.7408" said:

> I wish that they make it with a plesiosaur, pliosaur or a mosasaur based model. I feel those things were by far the most terrorizing sea creatures that ever lived. Add luminescence to it like someone else described and it would be amazing. Also massive and full of crustaceans, barnacles and other sea creatures attached to it.

>

 

So taking visual cues from the mosasaurus, but long, like a snake, a head like a sea dragon and bioluminescence in a similar manner to a Ghost Leviathan from Subnautica?

[Jimbru.6014]

> @"Castigator.3470" said:

> > @"Knuckle Joe.7408" said:

> > I wish that they make it with a plesiosaur, pliosaur or a mosasaur based model. I feel those things were by far the most terrorizing sea creatures that ever lived. Add luminescence to it like someone else described and it would be amazing. Also massive and full of crustaceans, barnacles and other sea creatures attached to it.

> >

>

> So taking visual cues from the mosasaurus, but long, like a snake, a head like a sea dragon and bioluminescence in a similar manner to a Ghost Leviathan from Subnautica?

 

What I visualize:

- Multiple long necks and draconian heads like a hydra. We've already got some concept art of that.

- Sea turtle kind of body with shell and flippers. Bioluminescence and sea growth all over; this critter has been resting in the sea for thousands of years, so its body should pretty much be a living coral reef.

- Draconian tail ending in big scaly flukes for ship-wrecking tail smashes and terrifying bursts of speed.

- Heads and tail can retract into the shell. That's basically how it was resting on the ocean floor; if we could have gone down and seen it, it would have looked like an undersea mountain or reef with all the growth on it.

- Huge, of course. We're talking "each head can swallow a Charr submarine whole" kind of huge. There's you a cutscene for a trailer...

- Hundreds of feet long for sure, maybe even as big as Kralk. On the surface, it would leave a wake big enough to capsize ships. And if it breached like a whale (which it can) it could easily sink an entire fleet, or even cause a local tsunami. Again, there's already some concept art in that direction.

- Something that big needs a lot of depth to submerge, so defeating it could involve luring it into water too shallow for it to just go under and hide.

- Which could also be explained as water shallow enough to fight in; after all, real combat submarines today have max depths only a few times their length. Unless ANet wants to take the "It's Magic!" excuse to a whole new level, we're not going 6000 fathoms down to fight this thing. Though I can imagine something like the Bitter Cold in Bitterfrost, where the deep ocean is a hazardous environment that we have to create a solution to get to...

[ugrakarma.9416]

For me they can do anything provided they do not over-reuse certain themes and aesthetics:

 

-Caribbean pirate atmosphere.

-The Zhaitan campaign has a lot of ship and water theme, they should be careful not to turn it into a Zhaitan 2.0

-Deserts.

[AgentMoore.9453]

I'm actually hoping it won't have a single body, especially after sucking up Mordremoth's wide-spreading influence. Give me a teeming school of minion fish that occasionally takes the shape of other things when it attacks, maybe capable of spitting out exploding starfish that adhere to enemy vessels.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> For me they can do anything provided they do not over-reuse certain themes and aesthetics:

>

> -Caribbean pirate atmosphere.

> -The Zhaitan campaign has a lot of ship and water theme, they should be careful not to turn it into a Zhaitan 2.0

> -Deserts.

 

I would add onto it, not duplicating Abaddon themes, unless it's intentional to indicate Abaddon had a relation to the DSD (which goes against what they set up so I doubt it).

[Fenom.9457]

> @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> For me they can do anything provided they do not over-reuse certain themes and aesthetics:

>

> -Caribbean pirate atmosphere.

> -The Zhaitan campaign has a lot of ship and water theme, they should be careful not to turn it into a Zhaitan 2.0

> -Deserts.

 

 

IMO a Caribbean pirate expansion would be amazing, but better as another deep sea/islands expansion

[Jimbru.6014]

"Caribbean pirate" theme is what Lion's Arch was when GW2 first came out. A lot of us would like to see it come back, but not at the cost of the same horrors that Scarlet brought.

[ugrakarma.9416]

> @"Fenom.9457" said:

> > @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> > For me they can do anything provided they do not over-reuse certain themes and aesthetics:

> >

> > -Caribbean pirate atmosphere.

> > -The Zhaitan campaign has a lot of ship and water theme, they should be careful not to turn it into a Zhaitan 2.0

> > -Deserts.

>

>

> IMO a Caribbean pirate expansion would be amazing, but better as another deep sea/islands expansion

 

Entire Orr landscape and mobs(the risen here is our version of "zombies pirates" ) + battling zaithan undead ships + Lions Arch wasnt enough?

[Fenom.9457]

> @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> > @"Fenom.9457" said:

> > > @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> > > For me they can do anything provided they do not over-reuse certain themes and aesthetics:

> > >

> > > -Caribbean pirate atmosphere.

> > > -The Zhaitan campaign has a lot of ship and water theme, they should be careful not to turn it into a Zhaitan 2.0

> > > -Deserts.

> >

> >

> > IMO a Caribbean pirate expansion would be amazing, but better as another deep sea/islands expansion

>

> Entire Orr landscape and mobs(the risen here is our version of "zombies pirates" ) + battling zaithan undead ships + Lions Arch wasnt enough?

 

 

I was thinking more pirates of the Caribbean type thing with tropical islands and treasures, curses, pirate crews. Siren’s reef fractal was pretty much what I wanted, now if only if were an expansion with 5+ maps

[Gern.2978]

I'm eager for just about ANY information concerning the water dragon. Because it's the last piece of the puzzle. It will either confirm or deny that there is some kind of relationship between the Elder Dragons and The Six.

[Fenom.9457]

> @"Gern.2978" said:

> I'm eager for just about ANY information concerning the water dragon. Because it's the last piece of the puzzle. It will either confirm or deny that there is some kind of relationship between the Elder Dragons and The Six.

 

 

If we have to tie the elder dragons to something beyond what we already know them to be, I’d rather it at least not be directly related to the gods of one race, just because there are 6 of each. I would rather see a plot written for this especially than a forced one. They could be tied to the mists, as beings created by a new level of entity from beyond tyria, but to keep tyria balanced. And us killing the dragons pissed it off and there we have a new plot. Just off the top of my head, but the main point is that hopefully they don’t related to The Six.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Gern.2978" said:

> I'm eager for just about ANY information concerning the water dragon. Because it's the last piece of the puzzle. It will either confirm or deny that there is some kind of relationship between the Elder Dragons and The Six.

 

ArenaNet has already debunked the potential connection between the Elder Dragons and the Six, about half a dozen times over.

 

At this point, the only connection the two groups may have is that the Six fulfilled the role of balancing their homeworld's antikythera / The All just as the Elder Dragons do for Tyria. If so, then there's a potential issue with having beings that share magic rather than hoard it, as I don't think the Six count as hoarders (or maybe they did but in a non-lethal/civilization destroying manner and they didn't yet know the ramifications, and that's why the Forgotten press for beings that share?).

[norbes.3620]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Gern.2978" said:

> > I'm eager for just about ANY information concerning the water dragon. Because it's the last piece of the puzzle. It will either confirm or deny that there is some kind of relationship between the Elder Dragons and The Six.

>

> ArenaNet has already debunked the potential connection between the Elder Dragons and the Six, about half a dozen times over.

>

> At this point, the only connection the two groups may have is that the Six fulfilled the role of balancing their homeworld's antikythera / The All just as the Elder Dragons do for Tyria. If so, then there's a potential issue with having beings that share magic rather than hoard it, as I don't think the Six count as hoarders (or maybe they did but in a non-lethal/civilization destroying manner and they didn't yet know the ramifications, and that's why the Forgotten press for beings that share?).

 

Well we DO know that the six were forced to leave their homeworld and took a good share from the local civilisation along with them.

 

we DONT know why they had to leave that place. only that it was near destruction of some Kind. no reason, no why, nothing beyond that so it could indeed be possible that the six are related to the destruction of that world. im not even sure if the word "destruction" is mentioned. but nevertheless it's still some Kind of catastrophy wich is.. not Holding much Information cuz thats indeed pretty vague

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"norbes.3620" said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > @"Gern.2978" said:

> > > I'm eager for just about ANY information concerning the water dragon. Because it's the last piece of the puzzle. It will either confirm or deny that there is some kind of relationship between the Elder Dragons and The Six.

> >

> > ArenaNet has already debunked the potential connection between the Elder Dragons and the Six, about half a dozen times over.

> >

> > At this point, the only connection the two groups may have is that the Six fulfilled the role of balancing their homeworld's antikythera / The All just as the Elder Dragons do for Tyria. If so, then there's a potential issue with having beings that share magic rather than hoard it, as I don't think the Six count as hoarders (or maybe they did but in a non-lethal/civilization destroying manner and they didn't yet know the ramifications, and that's why the Forgotten press for beings that share?).

>

> Well we DO know that the six were forced to leave their homeworld and took a good share from the local civilisation along with them.

>

> we DONT know why they had to leave that place. only that it was near destruction of some Kind. no reason, no why, nothing beyond that so it could indeed be possible that the six are related to the destruction of that world. im not even sure if the word "destruction" is mentioned. but nevertheless it's still some Kind of catastrophy wich is.. not Holding much Information cuz thats indeed pretty vague

 

Technically, we don't know any of that. We know they brought humans and Forgotten, but we don't know why they left. It's speculation from suggestions that the world was in devastation or facing catastrophy. And players got that from the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orrian_History_Scrolls[Orrian History Scrolls](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orrian_History_Scrolls) which state:

 

1. That Dwayna chose Tyria and "brought those who would make [it] a paradise" and that she had "led her people to peace."

2. That Balthazar entered the world carrying his father's head.

3. While the other five focused on building a home Lyssa "gave them joy and helped them forget the past" with it being unclear if "them" refers to humanity, the gods, or both.

4. That "what passed beyond in the Mists, only [Abaddon] remember."

 

* This suggests some sort of calamity or war, as Dwayna wouldn't be coming from a paradise to seek a paradise, she wouldn't be coming from peaceful lands to lead people to peace.

* Balthazar carrying his father's head has unclear context - did Balthazar kill him and he carried the head in brutal victory? Was his father killed and he carried the head as a memento mori of past failures? Some other reason?

* Lyssa's line suggests that whatever happened in the past, it was traumatizing, otherwise forgetting the past wouldn't bring joy. Yet only Abaddon (and now Kormir given she gained his knowledge) knows what happened then. Incidentally, Abaddon was the only one who was so gung ho for spreading magic, so maybe that was related to what happened.

 

Point being, we do not _know_ it was some calamity or destruction. It could have been just constant strife and war the gods tired of. Though it is _suggested_ to be something major for six nigh all-powerful beings to take two species and leave it instead of settling matters. But we don't know they "had to leave", just that they did leave.

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"norbes.3620" said:

> > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > @"Gern.2978" said:

> > > > I'm eager for just about ANY information concerning the water dragon. Because it's the last piece of the puzzle. It will either confirm or deny that there is some kind of relationship between the Elder Dragons and The Six.

> > >

> > > ArenaNet has already debunked the potential connection between the Elder Dragons and the Six, about half a dozen times over.

> > >

> > > At this point, the only connection the two groups may have is that the Six fulfilled the role of balancing their homeworld's antikythera / The All just as the Elder Dragons do for Tyria. If so, then there's a potential issue with having beings that share magic rather than hoard it, as I don't think the Six count as hoarders (or maybe they did but in a non-lethal/civilization destroying manner and they didn't yet know the ramifications, and that's why the Forgotten press for beings that share?).

> >

> > Well we DO know that the six were forced to leave their homeworld and took a good share from the local civilisation along with them.

> >

> > we DONT know why they had to leave that place. only that it was near destruction of some Kind. no reason, no why, nothing beyond that so it could indeed be possible that the six are related to the destruction of that world. im not even sure if the word "destruction" is mentioned. but nevertheless it's still some Kind of catastrophy wich is.. not Holding much Information cuz thats indeed pretty vague

>

> Technically, we don't know any of that. We know they brought humans and Forgotten, but we don't know why they left. It's speculation from suggestions that the world was in devastation or facing catastrophy. And players got that from the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orrian_History_Scrolls[Orrian History Scrolls](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orrian_History_Scrolls) which state:

>

> 1. That Dwayna chose Tyria and "brought those who would make [it] a paradise" and that she had "led her people to peace."

> 2. That Balthazar entered the world carrying his father's head.

> 3. While the other five focused on building a home Lyssa "gave them joy and helped them forget the past" with it being unclear if "them" refers to humanity, the gods, or both.

> 4. That "what passed beyond in the Mists, only [Abaddon] remember."

>

> * This suggests some sort of calamity or war, as Dwayna wouldn't be coming from a paradise to seek a paradise, she wouldn't be coming from peaceful lands to lead people to peace.

> * Balthazar carrying his father's head has unclear context - did Balthazar kill him and he carried the head in brutal victory? Was his father killed and he carried the head as a memento mori of past failures? Some other reason?

> * Lyssa's line suggests that whatever happened in the past, it was traumatizing, otherwise forgetting the past wouldn't bring joy. Yet only Abaddon (and now Kormir given she gained his knowledge) knows what happened then. Incidentally, Abaddon was the only one who was so gung ho for spreading magic, so maybe that was related to what happened.

>

> Point being, we do not _know_ it was some calamity or destruction. It could have been just constant strife and war the gods tired of. Though it is _suggested_ to be something major for six nigh all-powerful beings to take two species and leave it instead of settling matters. But we don't know they "had to leave", just that they did leave.

 

Did they bring the forgotten though? I thought the forgotten were part of the Elder Races, with the Mursaat, Seers, Jotun and Dwarves. Even the Mursaat tablets in ember bay advised that the forgotten and Mursaat attempted to defeat Zhaitan and failed.

[Aplethoraof.2643]

[something like this, maybe?](https://releaseyourkraken.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/dagon__demon_prince_of_the_sea_by_michaeljaecks-d5ubvvz.jpg "Something like this, maybe?")

 

Underwater creatures tend to be very different from terrestrial ones. If there is an undersea dragon, I think that it too would be very different.

 

Hand tentacles, mmmm!

[Randulf.7614]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > @"norbes.3620" said:

> > > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > > @"Gern.2978" said:

> > > > > I'm eager for just about ANY information concerning the water dragon. Because it's the last piece of the puzzle. It will either confirm or deny that there is some kind of relationship between the Elder Dragons and The Six.

> > > >

> > > > ArenaNet has already debunked the potential connection between the Elder Dragons and the Six, about half a dozen times over.

> > > >

> > > > At this point, the only connection the two groups may have is that the Six fulfilled the role of balancing their homeworld's antikythera / The All just as the Elder Dragons do for Tyria. If so, then there's a potential issue with having beings that share magic rather than hoard it, as I don't think the Six count as hoarders (or maybe they did but in a non-lethal/civilization destroying manner and they didn't yet know the ramifications, and that's why the Forgotten press for beings that share?).

> > >

> > > Well we DO know that the six were forced to leave their homeworld and took a good share from the local civilisation along with them.

> > >

> > > we DONT know why they had to leave that place. only that it was near destruction of some Kind. no reason, no why, nothing beyond that so it could indeed be possible that the six are related to the destruction of that world. im not even sure if the word "destruction" is mentioned. but nevertheless it's still some Kind of catastrophy wich is.. not Holding much Information cuz thats indeed pretty vague

> >

> > Technically, we don't know any of that. We know they brought humans and Forgotten, but we don't know why they left. It's speculation from suggestions that the world was in devastation or facing catastrophy. And players got that from the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orrian_History_Scrolls[Orrian History Scrolls](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orrian_History_Scrolls) which state:

> >

> > 1. That Dwayna chose Tyria and "brought those who would make [it] a paradise" and that she had "led her people to peace."

> > 2. That Balthazar entered the world carrying his father's head.

> > 3. While the other five focused on building a home Lyssa "gave them joy and helped them forget the past" with it being unclear if "them" refers to humanity, the gods, or both.

> > 4. That "what passed beyond in the Mists, only [Abaddon] remember."

> >

> > * This suggests some sort of calamity or war, as Dwayna wouldn't be coming from a paradise to seek a paradise, she wouldn't be coming from peaceful lands to lead people to peace.

> > * Balthazar carrying his father's head has unclear context - did Balthazar kill him and he carried the head in brutal victory? Was his father killed and he carried the head as a memento mori of past failures? Some other reason?

> > * Lyssa's line suggests that whatever happened in the past, it was traumatizing, otherwise forgetting the past wouldn't bring joy. Yet only Abaddon (and now Kormir given she gained his knowledge) knows what happened then. Incidentally, Abaddon was the only one who was so gung ho for spreading magic, so maybe that was related to what happened.

> >

> > Point being, we do not _know_ it was some calamity or destruction. It could have been just constant strife and war the gods tired of. Though it is _suggested_ to be something major for six nigh all-powerful beings to take two species and leave it instead of settling matters. But we don't know they "had to leave", just that they did leave.

>

> Did they bring the forgotten though? I thought the forgotten were part of the Elder Races, with the Mursaat, Seers, Jotun and Dwarves. Even the Mursaat tablets in ember bay advised that the forgotten and Mursaat attempted to defeat Zhaitan and failed.

 

They are part of the Elder Races, but are not native to Tyria

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forgotten

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > @"norbes.3620" said:

> > > > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > > > @"Gern.2978" said:

> > > > > > I'm eager for just about ANY information concerning the water dragon. Because it's the last piece of the puzzle. It will either confirm or deny that there is some kind of relationship between the Elder Dragons and The Six.

> > > > >

> > > > > ArenaNet has already debunked the potential connection between the Elder Dragons and the Six, about half a dozen times over.

> > > > >

> > > > > At this point, the only connection the two groups may have is that the Six fulfilled the role of balancing their homeworld's antikythera / The All just as the Elder Dragons do for Tyria. If so, then there's a potential issue with having beings that share magic rather than hoard it, as I don't think the Six count as hoarders (or maybe they did but in a non-lethal/civilization destroying manner and they didn't yet know the ramifications, and that's why the Forgotten press for beings that share?).

> > > >

> > > > Well we DO know that the six were forced to leave their homeworld and took a good share from the local civilisation along with them.

> > > >

> > > > we DONT know why they had to leave that place. only that it was near destruction of some Kind. no reason, no why, nothing beyond that so it could indeed be possible that the six are related to the destruction of that world. im not even sure if the word "destruction" is mentioned. but nevertheless it's still some Kind of catastrophy wich is.. not Holding much Information cuz thats indeed pretty vague

> > >

> > > Technically, we don't know any of that. We know they brought humans and Forgotten, but we don't know why they left. It's speculation from suggestions that the world was in devastation or facing catastrophy. And players got that from the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orrian_History_Scrolls[Orrian History Scrolls](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orrian_History_Scrolls) which state:

> > >

> > > 1. That Dwayna chose Tyria and "brought those who would make [it] a paradise" and that she had "led her people to peace."

> > > 2. That Balthazar entered the world carrying his father's head.

> > > 3. While the other five focused on building a home Lyssa "gave them joy and helped them forget the past" with it being unclear if "them" refers to humanity, the gods, or both.

> > > 4. That "what passed beyond in the Mists, only [Abaddon] remember."

> > >

> > > * This suggests some sort of calamity or war, as Dwayna wouldn't be coming from a paradise to seek a paradise, she wouldn't be coming from peaceful lands to lead people to peace.

> > > * Balthazar carrying his father's head has unclear context - did Balthazar kill him and he carried the head in brutal victory? Was his father killed and he carried the head as a memento mori of past failures? Some other reason?

> > > * Lyssa's line suggests that whatever happened in the past, it was traumatizing, otherwise forgetting the past wouldn't bring joy. Yet only Abaddon (and now Kormir given she gained his knowledge) knows what happened then. Incidentally, Abaddon was the only one who was so gung ho for spreading magic, so maybe that was related to what happened.

> > >

> > > Point being, we do not _know_ it was some calamity or destruction. It could have been just constant strife and war the gods tired of. Though it is _suggested_ to be something major for six nigh all-powerful beings to take two species and leave it instead of settling matters. But we don't know they "had to leave", just that they did leave.

> >

> > Did they bring the forgotten though? I thought the forgotten were part of the Elder Races, with the Mursaat, Seers, Jotun and Dwarves. Even the Mursaat tablets in ember bay advised that the forgotten and Mursaat attempted to defeat Zhaitan and failed.

>

> They are part of the Elder Races, but are not native to Tyria

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forgotten

 

Yeah, no, but what I’m saying is was it ever confirmed that the gods brought the forgotten to Tyria in the first place or was it part of the rewritten history.

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > > @"norbes.3620" said:

> > > > > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > > > > @"Gern.2978" said:

> > > > > > > I'm eager for just about ANY information concerning the water dragon. Because it's the last piece of the puzzle. It will either confirm or deny that there is some kind of relationship between the Elder Dragons and The Six.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ArenaNet has already debunked the potential connection between the Elder Dragons and the Six, about half a dozen times over.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > At this point, the only connection the two groups may have is that the Six fulfilled the role of balancing their homeworld's antikythera / The All just as the Elder Dragons do for Tyria. If so, then there's a potential issue with having beings that share magic rather than hoard it, as I don't think the Six count as hoarders (or maybe they did but in a non-lethal/civilization destroying manner and they didn't yet know the ramifications, and that's why the Forgotten press for beings that share?).

> > > > >

> > > > > Well we DO know that the six were forced to leave their homeworld and took a good share from the local civilisation along with them.

> > > > >

> > > > > we DONT know why they had to leave that place. only that it was near destruction of some Kind. no reason, no why, nothing beyond that so it could indeed be possible that the six are related to the destruction of that world. im not even sure if the word "destruction" is mentioned. but nevertheless it's still some Kind of catastrophy wich is.. not Holding much Information cuz thats indeed pretty vague

> > > >

> > > > Technically, we don't know any of that. We know they brought humans and Forgotten, but we don't know why they left. It's speculation from suggestions that the world was in devastation or facing catastrophy. And players got that from the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orrian_History_Scrolls[Orrian History Scrolls](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orrian_History_Scrolls) which state:

> > > >

> > > > 1. That Dwayna chose Tyria and "brought those who would make [it] a paradise" and that she had "led her people to peace."

> > > > 2. That Balthazar entered the world carrying his father's head.

> > > > 3. While the other five focused on building a home Lyssa "gave them joy and helped them forget the past" with it being unclear if "them" refers to humanity, the gods, or both.

> > > > 4. That "what passed beyond in the Mists, only [Abaddon] remember."

> > > >

> > > > * This suggests some sort of calamity or war, as Dwayna wouldn't be coming from a paradise to seek a paradise, she wouldn't be coming from peaceful lands to lead people to peace.

> > > > * Balthazar carrying his father's head has unclear context - did Balthazar kill him and he carried the head in brutal victory? Was his father killed and he carried the head as a memento mori of past failures? Some other reason?

> > > > * Lyssa's line suggests that whatever happened in the past, it was traumatizing, otherwise forgetting the past wouldn't bring joy. Yet only Abaddon (and now Kormir given she gained his knowledge) knows what happened then. Incidentally, Abaddon was the only one who was so gung ho for spreading magic, so maybe that was related to what happened.

> > > >

> > > > Point being, we do not _know_ it was some calamity or destruction. It could have been just constant strife and war the gods tired of. Though it is _suggested_ to be something major for six nigh all-powerful beings to take two species and leave it instead of settling matters. But we don't know they "had to leave", just that they did leave.

> > >

> > > Did they bring the forgotten though? I thought the forgotten were part of the Elder Races, with the Mursaat, Seers, Jotun and Dwarves. Even the Mursaat tablets in ember bay advised that the forgotten and Mursaat attempted to defeat Zhaitan and failed.

> >

> > They are part of the Elder Races, but are not native to Tyria

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forgotten

>

> Yeah, no, but what I’m saying is was it ever confirmed that the gods brought the forgotten to Tyria in the first place or was it part of the rewritten history.

 

[The most recent lore](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Forgotten_Not_Forgotten) is that they A.) served the Five and B.) came from the Mists, but no word on whether they were still specifically brought to Tyria by the Six.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> Did they bring the forgotten though? I thought the forgotten were part of the Elder Races, with the Mursaat, Seers, Jotun and Dwarves. Even the Mursaat tablets in ember bay advised that the forgotten and Mursaat attempted to defeat Zhaitan and failed.

 

Given the Forgotten in Nightfall, they've been known to and of the Six for eons. In particular is [Keeper of Light](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Keeper_of_Light), though other Forgotten who are apparently thousands of years old are suggested. But it's pretty heavily confirmed, the Forgotten have worshiped and revered the Six very, very, very long ago. Since the "First Sun" if not sooner.

 

Even in GW2, there are mentions of them [coming from the Mists](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Forgotten_Not_Forgotten "coming from the Mists") and [serving the Six more than Glint](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystalline_Memories#In_Glint.27s_Lair "serving the Six more than Glint").

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > Did they bring the forgotten though? I thought the forgotten were part of the Elder Races, with the Mursaat, Seers, Jotun and Dwarves. Even the Mursaat tablets in ember bay advised that the forgotten and Mursaat attempted to defeat Zhaitan and failed.

>

> Given the Forgotten in Nightfall, they've been known to and of the Six for eons. In particular is [Keeper of Light](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Keeper_of_Light), though other Forgotten who are apparently thousands of years old are suggested. But it's pretty heavily confirmed, the Forgotten have worshiped and revered the Six very, very, very long ago. Since the "First Sun" if not sooner.

>

> Even in GW2, there are mentions of them [coming from the Mists](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Forgotten_Not_Forgotten "coming from the Mists") and [serving the Six more than Glint](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystalline_Memories#In_Glint.27s_Lair "serving the Six more than Glint").

 

Yeah, I understand that they worship and revere the Six, however the Six showed up in Tyria in 786 BE, while the forgotten were around since like 10,000 BE and beyond, since the last dragon rising. I figured that the Forgotten story has since changed, like the Bloodstone history, Glint’s history and so forth.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> Yeah, I understand that they worship and revere the Six, however the Six showed up in Tyria in 786 BE, while the forgotten were around since like 10,000 BE and beyond, since the last dragon rising. I figured that the Forgotten story has since changed, like the Bloodstone history, Glint’s history and so forth.

 

We actually don't have a date for when the Six showed up in the world. 786 BE is when **humans arrived on Cantha**. Humans and the gods were on Tyria for an unknown amount of time before then. For all we know, they could have shown up around the same time as Forgotten. We don't know.

 

And the oldest date we have confirmed for the Forgotten is, technically, 1769 BE. All dates surrounding Glint is, still, "3,000 years ago", despite 10,000 BE being the date the Priory and mursaat ascribe for the previous dragonrise, which rather suggests the last dragonrise lasted ~8,000 years. Or the Priory+mursaat lore tablets are wrong and there were two previous dragonrises, or the dozens of references of Glint's purification occurring 3,000 years ago are wrong.

[perilisk.1874]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> And the oldest date we have confirmed for the Forgotten is, technically, 1769 BE. All dates surrounding Glint is, still, "3,000 years ago", despite 10,000 BE being the date the Priory and mursaat ascribe for the previous dragonrise, which rather suggests the last dragonrise lasted ~8,000 years. Or the Priory+mursaat lore tablets are wrong and there were two previous dragonrises, or the dozens of references of Glint's purification occurring 3,000 years ago are wrong.

 

Or Steve's second sphere is Time, and he's been screwing with things.

 

[Knuckle Joe.7408]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > Yeah, I understand that they worship and revere the Six, however the Six showed up in Tyria in 786 BE, while the forgotten were around since like 10,000 BE and beyond, since the last dragon rising. I figured that the Forgotten story has since changed, like the Bloodstone history, Glint’s history and so forth.

>

> We actually don't have a date for when the Six showed up in the world. 786 BE is when **humans arrived on Cantha**. Humans and the gods were on Tyria for an unknown amount of time before then. For all we know, they could have shown up around the same time as Forgotten. We don't know.

>

> And the oldest date we have confirmed for the Forgotten is, technically, 1769 BE. All dates surrounding Glint is, still, "3,000 years ago", despite 10,000 BE being the date the Priory and mursaat ascribe for the previous dragonrise, which rather suggests the last dragonrise lasted ~8,000 years. Or the Priory+mursaat lore tablets are wrong and there were two previous dragonrises, or the dozens of references of Glint's purification occurring 3,000 years ago are wrong.

 

Could it be that the human gods are from a future Tyria? I mean, if they are from a whole different world altogether, why does it say that they're big parts of the eternal alchemy? Wouldn't they be completely alien to that?

 

I imagine a future Tyria (probably the same time as we are right now, but in one where the dragons are winning) where the dragons woke up and brought destruction on the world, and either the gods destroyed one or two and then realized the mistake they had done? Would explain how Kormir and presumably the other gods know the destruction that happens when you kill/fight dragons and decided not to step in.

 

Or..

 

They fought them but suffered a crushing defeat because they were not powerful enough and had no one to help them. This one could explain why Abbadon was all "LETS GIVE MAGIC TO THEM COME ON", so they could have an army to stand with them the next time they arose. Again, probably the six were all "They have magic now, they can defend themselves, lets get outta here." when you went to talk to Kormir.

 

Orrrrrr

 

They defeated all the dragons and some gifted individuals absorbed each dragon's magic (would explain the parallel affinities between dragons/gods), but the price was that the world went all Namek and they decided to travel back in time with a handful of their once human brothers.

 

Maybe?

 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Knuckle Joe.7408" said:

> Could it be that the human gods are from a future Tyria? I mean, if they are from a whole different world altogether, why does it say that they're big parts of the eternal alchemy? Wouldn't they be completely alien to that?

 

The Eternal Alchemy is about how everything in the universe works together.

 

The Six may be from another worlds, but they're still of this universe.

 

And as far as we know, time travel is not possible. Just fractals of possible future.

 

>Would explain how Kormir and presumably the other gods know the destruction that happens when you kill/fight dragons and decided not to step in.

 

More likely they know what happens when you imbalance the functions of a world, given the world they came from was distraught in some form.