Climbing out of gold is impossible, Change my mind

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

> @"Abelisk.4527" said:

> I dropped down to gold 3 twice this season, am back to top 25 :blush:

 

How did match maker allow such a long swing???

 

Did this happen when you were using a single profession or multiple???

[Abelisk.4527]

> @"Crystal Paladin.3871" said:

> > @"Abelisk.4527" said:

> > I dropped down to gold 3 twice this season, am back to top 25 :blush:

>

> How did match maker allow such a long swing???

>

> Did this happen when you were using a single profession or multiple???

 

I tried yolo meme builds and then at Gold I tryharded on my Mesmer.

[Andromeda.8293]

I haven't played for 1.5 years, but in the past week I qued, placed t2 plat played a bit to T3 plat, got bored, played on my necro (I'm not very good at necro or anything other than ele), tanked myself to bottom of Gold (almost silver), then decided to tryhard a bit on healbot tempest - which everyone tells me is trash now - and it took me about 2 days but I'm back to T2 plat. So it's certainly possible, and I did not que dead time zones, solo que only, I played EU prime time as well. Maybe just try and figure out why the games were lost and ways to of made it go more smoothly.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Be the best gold player you can. We can swing up or down cause we are PvP monkeys

[dceptaconroy.7928]

I'm half decent, but I'm one of those dorks that sticks to their main class, reaper... I also soloq 90% of the time. When I do the maths with just those variables I understand my limitations. Add to that afks and spanners that may as well be afkers and I'm a strong gold 2. Just knowing what you're working with is half the issue.. have fun and get that coin.

[Derenaya.3479]

Welp need the next season for more :D Thx for the tips and comments of everyone :D

 

https://i.imgur.com/nyJlpJK.jpg

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Derenaya.3479" said:

> Welp need the next season for more :D Thx for the tips and comments of everyone :D

>

> https://i.imgur.com/nyJlpJK.jpg

 

Grats!

[Durzlla.6295]

You can absolutely move up and personal skill absolutely matters, you have to both be good at your class AND at rotating though to escape from gold, but it’s certainly doable.

 

Keep in mind though no matter how amazing you may be, there will be SOME games you’re not winning, but those aren’t as common or guaranteed as you may think, even games where you have someone constantly dying 1v3 mid is winnable, if you’re carrying hard enough.

 

Also, I would try to avoid playing in off times, idk why but it always seems like that’s when my games are just always a stomp one way or another.

[peekayed.4360]

> @"Dajas.4715" said:

> What I don't get is that a lot off people in plat have a win ratio off just over 50% who are they more "skilled" then people with the same win ratio in say bronze silver?

 

I assume it's the matchmaking. People get matched throughout all divisions, so my guess would be that platinum players grind their teeth into the ground to maintain their w/l, while carrying their respective silver "partners" into their 50% w/l. The difference might be that platinum players can control their losing streaks better (by just stopping to play OR actually carrying games) than silver players, who have trouble climbing by themselves.

 

Unrelated to above quoted post: I wonder if conquest is the only ranked mode, because capping points kind of prevents "lopsided matches" to end in 10 minutes of spawn-camping. I also wonder, if after the 2-3 minutes mark, the matchmaking algorithm just throws people together in a way, where 1-2 platinum/above players get matched with anything below, to maintain the pretence of an "alive" game for the sake of match-quality. I wonder what people prefer, fast queues, or quality matches, but I wonder a lot of things. One thing I'm wondering about especially is the amount of bots that get outed on these forums, and after finding one of those bots myself (4000 matches played just this season), I wonder why there's nothing done about it. But there is no transparancy, there are never any answers, and so all I can do is wonder why this company is deliberately crashing their game into a massive wall.

 

But at least I get to use a cute plush griffon as my avatar, so whatever.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Stay in gold...fight them all.

 

 

[Bast.7253]

Well it can be done, but you’re better off playing less games. The more you play the worse matchmaking will be for you. And if you’re losing a bunch just stop doing ranked because you will get the same people over and over again. I did like 800 games this season and was everywhere from gold 1 to play 2 grinding shards and gold. Finally climbed back up to plat but that was after like a 12 game losing streak earlier today.

 

Some games you just can’t carry. It’s pretty much predetermined. Maybe as a thief if you just avoid fighting all game and just cap things when people aren’t looking. But 9 times out of 10 I get the team with the two necros and the firebrand that somehow die mid. I have a bad habit of switching to whatever I think is most helpful but in most cases I think it’s better to just play one thing and stick with it.

[Xcution.4768]

I just feel that the moment you stop carrying games or you are no longer able to carry the game with your own personal efforts .........that the actual rating for your.

[bluri.2653]

I will happily help you check your vods or so and give you pointers

[Derenaya.3479]

> @"bluri.2653" said:

> I will happily help you check your vods or so and give you pointers

 

I don‘t have vods or anything atm but I‘d be interessted in something else if you have the time to explain. I always watch your stream (I play thief as well) and you often say things like ,,Our slb is fighting their warrior (just an example), that‘s a good setup for him, I don‘t need to +1 that.“ Which are setups I don‘t need to plus and which should I plus? What If I have a stall setup (weaver vs whatever e.g.) do I plus that? As I said above, just answer if you have time to spare (as it‘s quite a deep question imo) :D

[bluri.2653]

> @"Derenaya.3479" said:

> > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > I will happily help you check your vods or so and give you pointers

>

> I don‘t have vods or anything atm but I‘d be interessted in something else if you have the time to explain. I always watch your stream (I play thief as well) and you often say things like ,,Our slb is fighting their warrior (just an example), that‘s a good setup for him, I don‘t need to +1 that.“ Which are setups I don‘t need to plus and which should I plus? What If I have a stall setup (weaver vs whatever e.g.) do I plus that? As I said above, just answer if you have time to spare (as it‘s quite a deep question imo)

 

Pm me ingame or give ur discord acc and we can talk np

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"peekayed.4360" said:

> > @"Dajas.4715" said:

> > What I don't get is that a lot off people in plat have a win ratio off just over 50% who are they more "skilled" then people with the same win ratio in say bronze silver?

>

> I assume it's the matchmaking. People get matched throughout all divisions, so my guess would be that platinum players grind their teeth into the ground to maintain their w/l, while carrying their respective silver "partners" into their 50% w/l. The difference might be that platinum players can control their losing streaks better (by just stopping to play OR actually carrying games) than silver players, who have trouble climbing by themselves.

>

> Unrelated to above quoted post: I wonder if conquest is the only ranked mode, because capping points kind of prevents "lopsided matches" to end in 10 minutes of spawn-camping. I also wonder, if after the 2-3 minutes mark, the matchmaking algorithm just throws people together in a way, where 1-2 platinum/above players get matched with anything below, to maintain the pretence of an "alive" game for the sake of match-quality. I wonder what people prefer, fast queues, or quality matches, but I wonder a lot of things. One thing I'm wondering about especially is the amount of bots that get outed on these forums, and after finding one of those bots myself (4000 matches played just this season), I wonder why there's nothing done about it. But there is no transparancy, there are never any answers, and so all I can do is wonder why this company is deliberately crashing their game into a massive wall.

>

> But at least I get to use a cute plush griffon as my avatar, so whatever.

 

Your skill ceiling is an equilibrium point. It doesn't matter whether that ceiling is 900 or 1500. The further you are from this equilibrium point, the faster you will move toward it before your win ratio begins to level out.

 

Of course, this breaks down a bit in a few scenarios. For instance, if you're in the top 5 then there is no possibility of matchmaking ever providing you with competition above your rating level. Thus you will always lose more from a loss than you gain from a win and you will need to maintain better than a 50/50 win ratio to maintain equilibrium. In reality, this likely applies to most (if not all!) of the top 250 as it's unlikely that enough players from that pool are present and close enough in rating (since it covers 3 rating tiers!) to avoid a significant point disparity between wins and losses.

 

It also likely breaks down if you game the system in some way. But for most players, you should expect close to a 50/50 win rate regardless of rating level.

[Shon.6419]

I got 4 wins out of 10 games in placements because of afk-ers and bad rotations and decisions. I started in Silver high t3 10 days before the season ended I was in platinum.

Don't play when tilted( damn this doesn't sound like me :D) or once you lose 2 games in a row take a break.

[voltaicbore.8012]

> @"Shon.6419" said:

> I got 4 wins out of 10 games in placements because of afk-ers and bad rotations and decisions. I started in Silver high t3 10 days before the season ended I was in platinum.

> Don't play when tilted( kitten this doesn't sound like me :D) or once you lose 2 games in a row take a break.

 

I am constantly annoying my guild by recommending this. "Queue discipline!" is what I always shout, and it's the biggest favor you can do for yourself if rating matters to you.

 

Leaning into losing streaks hoping to turn it around - that error is not just limited to spvp, it's the fundamental hazard of gambling and pops up in other forms of decision making too.

 

Looks like OP made it into plat though, gj!

[Justine.6351]

So I am uniquely qualified to "change your mind".

 

I placed Plat 1 on hammer rev.

Continued to play hammer rev into the season a few games at a time.

Decided I wanted to work on Legendary Backpack achievements so played chronomancer (2 wells, 2 mantras) and ended up taking to gold 1 and played quite a few games.

Got back onto hammer rev and ended season in Plat 1.

 

130 games played

64 games won

[Ben Phongluangtham.1065]

Some interesting data:

 

29.7% of the players who placed in the top half of gold (1350-1499) finished the season in plat or higher. Highest Finish: 1843

7.5% of the players who placed in the bottom half of gold (1200-1349) finished the season in plat or higher. Highest Finish: 1802

1.1% of the players who placed below gold (0-1199) finished the season in plat or higher. Highest Finish: 1680

Lowest placement to hit plat: 686

[dieterengelhardt.8759]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> Some interesting data:

>

> 29.7% of the players who placed in the top half of gold (1350-1499) finished the season in plat or higher. Highest Finish: 1843

> 7.5% of the players who placed in the bottom half of gold (1200-1349) finished the season in plat or higher. Highest Finish: 1802

> 1.1% of the players who placed below gold (0-1199) finished the season in plat or higher. Highest Finish: 1680

> Lowest placement to hit plat: 686

 

BenP u are my hero. Thanks for those stats. I really dig statistics like that :)

[Devilman.1532]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> Some interesting data:

>

> 29.7% of the players who placed in the top half of gold (1350-1499) finished the season in plat or higher. Highest Finish: 1843

> 7.5% of the players who placed in the bottom half of gold (1200-1349) finished the season in plat or higher. Highest Finish: 1802

> 1.1% of the players who placed below gold (0-1199) finished the season in plat or higher. Highest Finish: 1680

> Lowest placement to hit plat: 686

 

So its not impossible but highly unlikely. If your 10 placement matches don't go well youre pretty much boned. If you got stuck with a few matches of AFKers (who don't actually DC) total idiots no one could carry, the multitude of bots etc... How does this system make sense at all? How does it encourage people to keep playing when they know there is a 70% chance they will never get out of gold hell? If you placed in mid to low gold you have virtually no chance. You people need to scrap the 10 placement match trash system.

[Gaming Digi.9741]

> @"Derenaya.3479" said:

> Okay so here I am, stuck in gold since like 200 games and I came to the conclusion that it is impossible to climb out of it if you don't get placed in platin in the first place or win 10 times in a row (which is pretty much impossible). People are just to braindead in gold, necros who go far instead of fighting with their fb, people who run into a 3-1 in mid instead of waiting for the team and so on I'm sure you saw these people as well. I rarely get close games, it's either you won the dice roll and the enemy team has the idiot or you lost it and you loose 500-200.

>

> So my statement stands, try to change my mind.

 

> @"everyman.4375" said:

> > @"Derenaya.3479" said:

> > Okay I guess my statement was clearly refuted and I'll just try to rank up anyway. So I'd be interessted in your opinion on what would be the best class to carry?

>

> Thief or revenant.

 

I'm sorry to say this, but as explained up in the thread, Thief (Core, DD, or DE) and Revenant (Herald or Renegade) are the WORST solo carries you can have. IE, Thief has a poor presence in 1v1s, teamfights where it's all AoEs, and when outnumbered, and only excels in +1 and decapping, closely followed by Mirage, which can Teamfight, 1v1, +1, 1vX, decap, etc, almost as fast as a Thief. We had a debate on a Discord where we stated that Mirage is second best at mobility only because of Initiative Thief has, and second best by not a lot.

 

Meanwhile, Herald and Renegade are in one of the worst situations in-game in PvP balance-wise, since they have only impact when they are allowed to have said impact. Keep any of the two in check and you'll have an easy 4v5. Herald can barely 1v1, has poor mobility off-point (yes, you have perma swiftness, but that doesn't even begin to cope for teleports on a free range. Oh and both thief and mirage have better mobility overall ^^), isn't guaranteed to excel in +1s if the matchup isn't right (or if you have a little lower skill-cap), it can absolutely not 1vX. It really only excels in teamfights when babysitted . So no, Thief and Revenant are not at all the best solo carries out there.

 

I'd suggest playing something like Holo (which can effectively 1v1, 1vX, teamfight, and has a decent mobility due to perma swiftness and all those leap finishers that make 'em rather good at rotating, or Mirage, for the same reason as taking Holo.

 

I read above, OP, that you mained Thief. You won't be able to push out of the Gold Frenzy unless you adapt your class to the match-up you encounter. Double mesmer? Go thief. Double thief? Go holo. Double necro? Go mesmer. Proper awareness of your team composition and the ennemy's team composition will make it easier for you to win. Also, when you see you're on a losing spree, just stop PvP for a few hours and come back later.

 

That's coming from someone who pûshed through the Gold Frenzy up to Plat and was too lazy to un-decay to Plat XD

[Spartacus.3192]

> @"Devilman.1532" said:

> > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > Some interesting data:

> >

> > 29.7% of the players who placed in the top half of gold (1350-1499) finished the season in plat or higher. Highest Finish: 1843

> > 7.5% of the players who placed in the bottom half of gold (1200-1349) finished the season in plat or higher. Highest Finish: 1802

> > 1.1% of the players who placed below gold (0-1199) finished the season in plat or higher. Highest Finish: 1680

> > Lowest placement to hit plat: 686

>

> So its not impossible but highly unlikely. If your 10 placement matches don't go well youre pretty much boned. If you got stuck with a few matches of AFKers (who don't actually DC) total idiots no one could carry, the multitude of bots etc... How does this system make sense at all? How does it encourage people to keep playing when they know there is a 70% chance they will never get out of gold hell? If you placed in mid to low gold you have virtually no chance. You people need to scrap the 10 placement match trash system.

 

I agree that the 10 initial matches have way more impact than they should. In a previous season i had 2 matches with an AFK and 1 with a DC. That literally can make a match almost unwinnable. Whereas this season i had players who played to win with no AFK and no DC and i won 8 of my 10 matches.

[Deaths.9165]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> Some interesting data:

>

> 29.7% of the players who placed in the top half of gold (1350-1499) finished the season in plat or higher. Highest Finish: 1843

> 7.5% of the players who placed in the bottom half of gold (1200-1349) finished the season in plat or higher. Highest Finish: 1802

> 1.1% of the players who placed below gold (0-1199) finished the season in plat or higher. Highest Finish: 1680

> Lowest placement to hit plat: 686

 

Thank u for ur shared datas, which undermine my obeservations.

 

First of all the ranking doesnt show just ur skill, it also shows how many seasons u have played.

 

If u start for the first time pvp in gw2 and are an average player u will end up in gold. It is nearly impossible to climb up to plat or silver. Next season based on ur playstyle of the season u climb up to platinum or drop to silver.

 

Next issue is matchmaking. Their is some kind of diminishing return. The more gmase u play it is more likley u will be matched with bad players. SO it is highly recommanded that u dont grind in pvp for ranks.

 

The profession u choose is improtant. If u choose profession which are not like used alot u will be matched with better players. If u use professions who are alot used u will be matched with bad players. Same goes for builds.

 

Next issue is duo solo. If u are high scored and ur bro is low scored. It is more likley u will end up in a winning match.

 

This is my observations for matchmaking. Their are for sure other things that are implemented in the matchmaking. For me the ranks do not mean anything. Cause they dont mirror the actual skill of the player. the ranks just mirror his play habbits.

 

If u are interessted in ranks u should just give up ur playstyle and learn how the matchmaking works. Its is a very comlex allrythm, and the score is just 1 of the variables. in 1-3 seasons u will climb urself up to legendary.

 

If u want to farm in pvp. The backpiece or the legendary or just gold u just should give up on the rankings cause the matchmaking will recognize ur farming habbit and will match u with bad players.