Too many maps

[Jasonbdj.4021]

"Please, no more content" I see

 

 

[Dami.5046]

I would love more areas that aren't maybe linked to a story or even an event, to be found and explored a bit like the old Dry Top in Gw1.

Why would you not want to explore other places?

Crikey no hope for an expansion if the player base are crying about the size of the game *now*

 

[zealex.9410]

Can i like ask where you guys get the replayability from map exploration? Idk if im missing something but usually after i explore the map i dont do it again... because u know... i saw everything on the map.

 

It takes me around 20 mins, lets say an hour if i want to look at the scenery but thats about it.

 

So im rather curious, am i missing big parts of the maps or smth?

[Gorani.7205]

New maps are (currently) not the core of the problem of thinning player bases. It is the event scaling or the ANET created farming hot spots that cause the problem.

e.g. Serpent's Ire in Vabbi I have seen only succeed on a community organized map event happening once a week

e.g. Graveraiser in Domain of Istan, because everyone is just focused on the loot train (Akali/GH/Palawdan) you don't get help for the pre event that is over so quickly, because of horrible scaling

 

Sadly it currently is the Mantra of "be there when it's fresh" or suffer severe consequences of finishing it later (on top of the big grind that is LS4 & PoF for collections and other things)

[Kilamanjaro.2705]

I love new maps, drop day is epic for me.

However, I have never gotten serpents ire once successfully due to being away from game for a few months when it dropped. I think after awhile these maps to be revisited and rescaled for solo or duo completion possibilities. The ability to leave a map that is clearly only running a specific loot train would be nice too. (If you wanna run bounties in Ishtan, and end up in a farm map, you're just screwed until the map fills up. Then once pala or GH is done, the farm may end up on your new map as scouts find it)

 

[SkyShroud.2865]

I mentioned long long long time ago that there will be too many maps at the rate in which anet is going with one map per story. Nobody cares.

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"Dami.5046" said:

> I would love more areas that aren't maybe linked to a story or even an event, to be found and explored a bit like the old Dry Top in Gw1.

> Why would you not want to explore other places?

> Crikey no hope for an expansion if the player base are crying about the size of the game *now*

>

 

But this game doesn't lend as well enough to simple exploration to pull that off. The game's design is very rewards driven, which leads to player behavior being very event/goal driven. GW1 had a distinct advantage in that its quest structure had you exploring across maps, rather then localized within it. But because quests and scripting among Anet's slowest production areas in GW2, we have this huge problem where the low frequency causes a lot of people to cluster up on the latest content, burn out on it, and never look back.

 

Side Stories were supposed to address this issue, but that largely fell apart due to greater player interest in "new maps" due to how fast we burn through activities on them. Whens the last time you've spent a substantial amount of time in the Main POF maps, for anything other then farming? The maps are great for exploration, but we treat it mostly like a transitory obstacle since the most rewarding aspects are focused in a very small range of places. And given the one-shot nature of collections and achievements, theres no reason to revisit places if they aren't explicitly part of some list of things needed for the reward system.

 

I think at this point, the problem comes down to Anet not being capable of maintaining a release cadence that takes advantage of map recycling. And now made worse in that those maps are mutually exclusive to LS chapters. We may have reached the pinnacle of GW2's ability to expand properly for large world content. I'm not saying they need to whole sale shift gears.... but they do NEED more Complimentary content that can reuse existing assets, and offer it as a new activity. But like I said... the event scripting and design is their weakest area of development, and is going to be needed the most to make this work. Come to think of it.... did we even see a conclusion to the Rift side story?

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> Can i like ask where you guys get the replayability from map exploration? Idk if im missing something but usually after i explore the map i dont do it again... because u know... i saw everything on the map.

>

> It takes me around 20 mins, lets say an hour if i want to look at the scenery but thats about it.

>

> So im rather curious, am i missing big parts of the maps or smth?

You know you get rewards for map completion right? A full world run is several BL keys, plenty if lucky. Its the same with stories. I've actually gotten a precursor drop from the main story and I can assure you that it wasnt on the first and only run.

 

[serialkicker.5274]

I agree, too many maps. I'd rather see 2 big maps per expansion and all story happens there and maps would change according to events - new events, new npcs, new groups appearing in new episode as story goes on.

[Miko.9410]

I see that a lot of people love new maps mainly because of exploration. Don't understand me wrong, I like that too. But I think it should be in a slower pace. It's shame that there are some great events in previous maps, but they are hard to be done or you need to wait for specific day/hour for some organized run. And with new maps coming every LS episode this will only be a bigger problem. For old and regular players this is not a concern as they usually complete and get all or almost all rewards and achivmennts and they actually have no reason to come back, but I think we should look also at the casual players that can have hard time doing some events.

[lothefallen.7081]

I absolutely **agree** that a new map with every update creates an infrastructural problem with regards to player population density. While **I enjoy exploring**, especially areas that were of import to the GW1 story like Thunderhead Keep, I do think that these **maps eventually become defunct**, or worse, provide content that is inaccessible or **hard to complete due to an inadequate distribution of players** when the rewards are no longer relevant, desired, worth the time investment, or any combination of the three. This is quickly happening with some of the older living story **maps that only have replay value until a player farms the minimum required amount of map-based currency** to purchase their shinys or their meta-necessary ascended stat trinkets. Not only is it a shame that these beautifully designed maps with countless hours of art and design labor poured into them have little player distribution as time goes on, but it all adds up to a game world that is more fragmented and less cohesive overall.

 

Despite this, on some level, I think ArenaNet realizes this, but, **I hypothesize that the economic draw of this strategy is too alluring to pull back from for ArenaNet** simply because it's arguably the best way to bring back their targeted demographic majority of the players and get them to purchase gems. As long as the players come back and populate one map, purchase gems, and spend hours grinding for the map rewards, they are the demographic likely to spend. I think this is why you see a design hegemony that favors this strategy, but ultimately it's not a long-term sustainable model, especially if new players get to maps and find no one to help them or group with since the rewards for the majority wave of the player base have dried up. This issue is exacerbated by farms in maps like Istan that overcentralize the distribution of lucrative loot gains into one map. You see similar issues in Silverwastes or any map that has rewards worthwhile. Simply put, players will always gravitate toward gameplay systems and areas in an MMO where the time investment vs reward ratio is in their favor. For this systemic problem, **I see a variety of solutions**, some of which, ArenaNet seems to already be considering or has implemented to a lesser degree:

 

1. Add collections that require currencies or otherwise content completion (boss kills, boss drops, scavenger hunts, etc) from maps that don't see much player volume.

 

2. Make sure rewards vs. time investment are balanced in all maps or if this is not possible, buff rewards, reward systems (Treasure Hunt in Desert Highlands for example) in maps that are under performing. Although farms like Istan are fun and lucrative, we have to consider if this type of unequal distribution is healthy for the game as a whole.

 

3. Fix scaling issues that exacerbate the distribution issues we see with mobs, bosses, and rewards in a general sense.

 

4. Add rewards to work towards or achievement specific rewards rather than tons of green and blue loot. Players want to feel a sense of connection with the content they're doing and the loot they get from it. Examples of this currently would be the Chak, Aurilium, and other infusions that draw players to big meta events. Special items like these (although not necessarily just infusions) with low drop % should be added to all content that sees low player distribution to give players more choice where to play.

 

5. Challenges that are very map-specific, not just a new Griffon riding course or race in every map. I think less challenges, but more unique challenges with interesting rewards beyond trash loot, bloodstone dust, and a green would do more to spur unique and genuine interest in a map rather than interest in a map specifically because it's mechanically lucrative with relatively low time investment to farm there.

 

I'm sure there are a ton more suggestions to fix these potential issues with population distribution, but these stand out to me as the most immediate.

[Chyanne Waters.8719]

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > @"Miko.9410" said:

> > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > There can't be too many maps. However, it's difficult to fill them with events worth repeating.

> >

> > So perhaps there could be a map every second episode? And we would get some new events in previous maps or take people back to old ones, add new achievements or bounties or something along those lines

>

> Yeah pve has enough maps! How about they just make more maps for WvW instead?

 

Well they tried that and the player base rejected them instead of welcoming the uniqueness of them

[Despond.2174]

Nope. Bring on more. I want more options, a larger world. Everything is fast to get to and travel across so I see no problem. More maps please. :)

[Adenin.5973]

> @"Miko.9410" said:

> Does anyone else think that we are getting to a point where there is too many maps? Especially if we continue with this pace, one map per episode?

>

> I am also happy when we get new map to explore, new achievements etc. but on the other side maps from previous episodes or expansion are getting emptier. It happens every time: there are many groups and people doing stories and achievements when it comes out and perhaps also after next episode. But after two, three new maps people just move on. That's probably because they completed most of the achievements and got what they wanted, but this is getting a problem for others that want to do bounties or some more group oriented achievements or events.

>

> In my opinion this should slow down and perhaps move stories back to previous released maps or maybe even to core ones. And probably would also help a lot if player who buy expansion wouldn't need to buy each episode separately, that one I really don't get and seen a bit unfair.

>

> I can't see this ending well, especially if there will be another expansion with 4maps and LS episodes each with new map. This are just my thoughts and I would like to hear your opinions :)

 

I wished we would get away with the entire 3 months waiting for 4 hours of story and a throw away map that you play for a few hours and then never return.

 

We have already enough maps, new maps should be released with new expansions or maybe 1-2 halfway through the expac cycle.

 

What we need is not more maps, we need more mechanics, systems, rewards and things to do. Because that's what this game is so desperately lacking for longterm players. Instead of a new map, they could've released something like the WoW warfronts (just a fun GW2 version of them), just with a PvP option for example. Make it story themed if you want to, where one half of players gets corrupted by the brand and then tries to conquer a keep, that the other players need to defend. Slap a new armor set with rare drop chance as reward in it, get some good gold rate in and you have longterm players crying tears of joy for weeks if not months already.

 

These are the things we need, not one time only throw away content sparsely spread across each year and then sometimes a pretty slim expac releases that also adds no reaplayability or character progression whatsoever.