Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > U guys need to reassess ur tactics if thief is 1v1 u regularly if ur on any class other than necro or mesmer > > > > > > > > Even reaper stands a good chance vs melee theif. > > > > > > Lul. If you're a good thief, even the best reaper won't even hit you once > > > > Not talking about deadeye. > > Yeah. And I'm talking about daredevil I don't remember seeing a "good" delaredevil effortlessly beat, let alone not get hit as you say vs a reaper since way, way before pof, way before dash got nerfed, pi got nerfed, AA got nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Halo,soulbeast, mirage and warrior rule the 1v1’s Eles and thief’s have to out play their opponents unless they are against the few they counter, or players not aware of their surroundings, been ganked by few DE’s but if they fail the burst which is often their dead or they run because they can’t do anything else lol.guards are great 1v1 aswell just don’t have any disengaging capabilities unless dh and even then not good of pressured by out numbered fights that consist of classes with better mobility. People complain about thiefs ability to reset even though their sustain is to low to stay and fight and lets be real here, these days classes like holo,soulbeast mirage list goes on can reset mid fight while laughing, they don’t need to reposition lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > U guys need to reassess ur tactics if thief is 1v1 u regularly if ur on any class other than necro or mesmer > > > > > > > > > > Even reaper stands a good chance vs melee theif. > > > > > > > > Lul. If you're a good thief, even the best reaper won't even hit you once > > > > > > Not talking about deadeye. > > > > Yeah. And I'm talking about daredevil > > I don't remember seeing a "good" delaredevil effortlessly beat, let alone not get hit as you say vs a reaper since way, way before pof, way before dash got nerfed, pi got nerfed, AA got nerfed. If u get coughs by shroud 2 or 4 than DD gets chewed fast but if u use ur mobility to bait them out u can take them down pretty easy as their other skill casts are so slow. But yeah those to skills hit real hard lol but considering their poor mobility that’s fine in my book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > U guys need to reassess ur tactics if thief is 1v1 u regularly if ur on any class other than necro or mesmer > > > > > > > > > > > > Even reaper stands a good chance vs melee theif. > > > > > > > > > > Lul. If you're a good thief, even the best reaper won't even hit you once > > > > > > > > Not talking about deadeye. > > > > > > Yeah. And I'm talking about daredevil > > > > I don't remember seeing a "good" delaredevil effortlessly beat, let alone not get hit as you say vs a reaper since way, way before pof, way before dash got nerfed, pi got nerfed, AA got nerfed. > > If u get coughs by shroud 2 or 4 than DD gets chewed fast but if u use ur mobility to bait them out u can take them down pretty easy as their other skill casts are so slow. But yeah those to skills hit real hard lol but considering their poor mobility that’s fine in my book Poor mobility out side of combat sure. Though in combat, some reapers are actually moving to runes of speed, and with an #5 and spectual walk, they are far from slow in combat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emi.4152 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 I'm honestly surprised by thief being in 4th for 1 v 1. at least in my own experience. Mesmer 20/ 80 ish for the thief if power. 60 / 40 if condi? but only if they feel like sticking around. something like that Ranger hardcounters thief. at equal skill levels there is no reason a ranger should ever lose Engineer hardcounters thief. or rather, holo hardcounters thief. if the stars align the thief might have a chance? Warrior 50 / 50 if skilled vs skilled. low to average skill level matchups would be heavily in the warrior's favor i would think. Revenant 70 / 30? ish in the favor of the rev Elementalist like 70 / 30 ish in favor of ele. unless its yolo fresh air... then... who knows~ Guardian hardcounters thief and has done so since the beginning of the game Necro depends on skill level... at lower skill levels its really easy for the necro to random down a thief. skilled vs skilled would favor the thief like 20/ 80? but a necro that knows how to 1 v 1 and doesn't panic is super rare so... yes, a 'good' thief should be able to position perfectly, bait skills out, and out maneuver against 'insert profession here' but against an equally good player they would be able to counter a thief in just as many ways. there are almost no favorable match ups for thief and a bunch of hardcounters running around in wvw. most zerg builds have enough sustain to reach a safe tower unless they're being dumb and decide that, "of course, why shouldn't i be able to beat that roamer on my zerg build?" the irony is out of all the classes i could find all alone in wvw... i'm most excited to find another thief... since then i'm almost guaranteed to get a bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > U guys need to reassess ur tactics if thief is 1v1 u regularly if ur on any class other than necro or mesmer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even reaper stands a good chance vs melee theif. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lul. If you're a good thief, even the best reaper won't even hit you once > > > > > > > > > > Not talking about deadeye. > > > > > > > > Yeah. And I'm talking about daredevil > > > > > > I don't remember seeing a "good" delaredevil effortlessly beat, let alone not get hit as you say vs a reaper since way, way before pof, way before dash got nerfed, pi got nerfed, AA got nerfed. > > > > If u get coughs by shroud 2 or 4 than DD gets chewed fast but if u use ur mobility to bait them out u can take them down pretty easy as their other skill casts are so slow. But yeah those to skills hit real hard lol but considering their poor mobility that’s fine in my book > > Poor mobility out side of combat sure. Though in combat, some reapers are actually moving to runes of speed, and with an #5 and spectual walk, they are far from slow in combat While that’s 100% true and a great use of the runes other classes in which most already have far more built in combat mobility have access to those very runes aswell, or can opt to use different runes for a different set of bonuses while maintaining great in combat mobility thus still making reapers in combat mobility less. Using a rune as a band aid to raise a classes in combat mobility to a level where it can compete with other classes points to a problem with the class itself in my eyes. I don’t play reaper much these days cuz feels like ur running around in concrete boots lol and swinging the gs feels realistically weighty which is a disadvantage against classes that can swing them like there styrofoam,withought constantly having to Proc a boon to proc a rune lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 > @"Emi.4152" said: > I'm honestly surprised by thief being in 4th for 1 v 1. at least in my own experience. > > Mesmer 20/ 80 ish for the thief if power. 60 / 40 if condi? but only if they feel like sticking around. something like that > Ranger hardcounters thief. at equal skill levels there is no reason a ranger should ever lose > Engineer hardcounters thief. or rather, holo hardcounters thief. if the stars align the thief might have a chance? > Warrior 50 / 50 if skilled vs skilled. low to average skill level matchups would be heavily in the warrior's favor i would think. > Revenant 70 / 30? ish in the favor of the rev > Elementalist like 70 / 30 ish in favor of ele. unless its yolo fresh air... then... who knows~ > Guardian hardcounters thief and has done so since the beginning of the game > Necro depends on skill level... at lower skill levels its really easy for the necro to random down a thief. skilled vs skilled would favor the thief like 20/ 80? but a necro that knows how to 1 v 1 and doesn't panic is super rare so... > > yes, a 'good' thief should be able to position perfectly, bait skills out, and out maneuver against 'insert profession here' but against an equally good player they would be able to counter a thief in just as many ways. there are almost no favorable match ups for thief and a bunch of hardcounters running around in wvw. most zerg builds have enough sustain to reach a safe tower unless they're being dumb and decide that, "of course, why shouldn't i be able to beat that roamer on my zerg build?" > > the irony is out of all the classes i could find all alone in wvw... i'm most excited to find another thief... since then i'm almost guaranteed to get a bag. Exactly lol I’m not a good player compared to a lot of the skilled guys out there but my ranger and guard which I roam mostly on love seeing thiefs alone lol they pose a threat rarely only if all their burst somehow hits me and if they make zero mistakes, if they don’t run off that is lol. Like I said I’m not great so I make mistakes often and still down them easy,5 or less hits thier dead lol. Their great Roamer to +1 and to get from A to B but at actual fighting they suck lol hense all the resets and only a highly skilled player that know their opponents class as well as they kno the thief class itself stand a chance in most 1v1 fights. Other than perma stealth DE ganks but again if that burst fails they run allowing us both to reset lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EremiteAngel.9765 Posted January 15, 2019 Author Share Posted January 15, 2019 > @"Emi.4152" said: > I'm honestly surprised by thief being in 4th for 1 v 1. at least in my own experience. > > Mesmer 20/ 80 ish for the thief if power. 60 / 40 if condi? but only if they feel like sticking around. something like that > Ranger hardcounters thief. at equal skill levels there is no reason a ranger should ever lose > Engineer hardcounters thief. or rather, holo hardcounters thief. if the stars align the thief might have a chance? > Warrior 50 / 50 if skilled vs skilled. low to average skill level matchups would be heavily in the warrior's favor i would think. > Revenant 70 / 30? ish in the favor of the rev > Elementalist like 70 / 30 ish in favor of ele. unless its yolo fresh air... then... who knows~ > Guardian hardcounters thief and has done so since the beginning of the game > Necro depends on skill level... at lower skill levels its really easy for the necro to random down a thief. skilled vs skilled would favor the thief like 20/ 80? but a necro that knows how to 1 v 1 and doesn't panic is super rare so... > > yes, a 'good' thief should be able to position perfectly, bait skills out, and out maneuver against 'insert profession here' but against an equally good player they would be able to counter a thief in just as many ways. there are almost no favorable match ups for thief and a bunch of hardcounters running around in wvw. most zerg builds have enough sustain to reach a safe tower unless they're being dumb and decide that, "of course, why shouldn't i be able to beat that roamer on my zerg build?" > > the irony is out of all the classes i could find all alone in wvw... i'm most excited to find another thief... since then i'm almost guaranteed to get a bag. I would be inclined to side with your analysis of thief if I had not seen a highly skilled thief in action. I saw a sword pistol core thief defeat a skilled boonbeast 1 on 1 with well timed interrupts and bursts. I've seen that boonbeast dueling others and his win rate was usually at least 90%. It was just mind-blowing at a stage when everyone (except corrupt necros) seems to be struggling against boonbeast builds, which are becoming just as prevalent as LB builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said: > I saw a sword pistol core thief defeat a skilled boonbeast 1 on 1 with well timed interrupts and bursts. > I've seen that boonbeast dueling others and his win rate was usually at least 90%. > It was just mind-blowing at a stage when everyone (except corrupt necros) seems to be struggling against boonbeast builds, which are becoming just as prevalent as LB builds. I had a duel on S/P thief with a boonbeast. It was a 10 minute stall match. No chance of killing each other. We both moved on then. I doubt S/P can reliably kill that cancerbeast. Sword is too static and predicable. Just move to 1200 range to recover (ez for a boonbeast) and the thief can't reach you anymore with instant bursts as long as steal is on cooldown. So I think your boonbeast had pretty bad positioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said: > > @"Emi.4152" said: > > I'm honestly surprised by thief being in 4th for 1 v 1. at least in my own experience. > > > > Mesmer 20/ 80 ish for the thief if power. 60 / 40 if condi? but only if they feel like sticking around. something like that > > Ranger hardcounters thief. at equal skill levels there is no reason a ranger should ever lose > > Engineer hardcounters thief. or rather, holo hardcounters thief. if the stars align the thief might have a chance? > > Warrior 50 / 50 if skilled vs skilled. low to average skill level matchups would be heavily in the warrior's favor i would think. > > Revenant 70 / 30? ish in the favor of the rev > > Elementalist like 70 / 30 ish in favor of ele. unless its yolo fresh air... then... who knows~ > > Guardian hardcounters thief and has done so since the beginning of the game > > Necro depends on skill level... at lower skill levels its really easy for the necro to random down a thief. skilled vs skilled would favor the thief like 20/ 80? but a necro that knows how to 1 v 1 and doesn't panic is super rare so... > > > > yes, a 'good' thief should be able to position perfectly, bait skills out, and out maneuver against 'insert profession here' but against an equally good player they would be able to counter a thief in just as many ways. there are almost no favorable match ups for thief and a bunch of hardcounters running around in wvw. most zerg builds have enough sustain to reach a safe tower unless they're being dumb and decide that, "of course, why shouldn't i be able to beat that roamer on my zerg build?" > > > > the irony is out of all the classes i could find all alone in wvw... i'm most excited to find another thief... since then i'm almost guaranteed to get a bag. > > I would be inclined to side with your analysis of thief if I had not seen a highly skilled thief in action. > > I saw a sword pistol core thief defeat a skilled boonbeast 1 on 1 with well timed interrupts and bursts. > I've seen that boonbeast dueling others and his win rate was usually at least 90%. > It was just mind-blowing at a stage when everyone (except corrupt necros) seems to be struggling against boonbeast builds, which are becoming just as prevalent as LB builds. That would have been cool to see for sure. Thing is that player is probably skilled enough on most classes and do the same. Thing is if u need to be at a very high skill level to be effective and stand a chance against most classes and the fact thief is known for that compared to other professions makes a statement in on itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said: > > I saw a sword pistol core thief defeat a skilled boonbeast 1 on 1 with well timed interrupts and bursts. > > I've seen that boonbeast dueling others and his win rate was usually at least 90%. > > It was just mind-blowing at a stage when everyone (except corrupt necros) seems to be struggling against boonbeast builds, which are becoming just as prevalent as LB builds. > I had a duel on S/P thief with a boonbeast. It was a 10 minute stall match. No chance of killing each other. We both moved on then. > > I doubt S/P can reliably kill that cancerbeast. Sword is too static and predicable. Just move to 1200 range to recover (ez for a boonbeast) and the thief can't reach you anymore with instant bursts as long as steal is on cooldown. > > So I think your boonbeast had pretty bad positioning. U sir are a very good player to pose a draw on boonbeast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emi.4152 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said: > > @"Emi.4152" said: > > I'm honestly surprised by thief being in 4th for 1 v 1. at least in my own experience. > > > > Mesmer 20/ 80 ish for the thief if power. 60 / 40 if condi? but only if they feel like sticking around. something like that > > Ranger hardcounters thief. at equal skill levels there is no reason a ranger should ever lose > > Engineer hardcounters thief. or rather, holo hardcounters thief. if the stars align the thief might have a chance? > > Warrior 50 / 50 if skilled vs skilled. low to average skill level matchups would be heavily in the warrior's favor i would think. > > Revenant 70 / 30? ish in the favor of the rev > > Elementalist like 70 / 30 ish in favor of ele. unless its yolo fresh air... then... who knows~ > > Guardian hardcounters thief and has done so since the beginning of the game > > Necro depends on skill level... at lower skill levels its really easy for the necro to random down a thief. skilled vs skilled would favor the thief like 20/ 80? but a necro that knows how to 1 v 1 and doesn't panic is super rare so... > > > > yes, a 'good' thief should be able to position perfectly, bait skills out, and out maneuver against 'insert profession here' but against an equally good player they would be able to counter a thief in just as many ways. there are almost no favorable match ups for thief and a bunch of hardcounters running around in wvw. most zerg builds have enough sustain to reach a safe tower unless they're being dumb and decide that, "of course, why shouldn't i be able to beat that roamer on my zerg build?" > > > > the irony is out of all the classes i could find all alone in wvw... i'm most excited to find another thief... since then i'm almost guaranteed to get a bag. > > I would be inclined to side with your analysis of thief if I had not seen a highly skilled thief in action. > > I saw a sword pistol core thief defeat a skilled boonbeast 1 on 1 with well timed interrupts and bursts. > I've seen that boonbeast dueling others and his win rate was usually at least 90%. > It was just mind-blowing at a stage when everyone (except corrupt necros) seems to be struggling against boonbeast builds, which are becoming just as prevalent as LB builds. i mean.. no offense but... how often do you see that happen? yes, i've seen 1 thief beat a big bad boonbeast therefore thief must be a strong 1 v 1er. there's a gap in logic there somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 > @"Emi.4152" said: > > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said: > > > @"Emi.4152" said: > > > I'm honestly surprised by thief being in 4th for 1 v 1. at least in my own experience. > > > > > > Mesmer 20/ 80 ish for the thief if power. 60 / 40 if condi? but only if they feel like sticking around. something like that > > > Ranger hardcounters thief. at equal skill levels there is no reason a ranger should ever lose > > > Engineer hardcounters thief. or rather, holo hardcounters thief. if the stars align the thief might have a chance? > > > Warrior 50 / 50 if skilled vs skilled. low to average skill level matchups would be heavily in the warrior's favor i would think. > > > Revenant 70 / 30? ish in the favor of the rev > > > Elementalist like 70 / 30 ish in favor of ele. unless its yolo fresh air... then... who knows~ > > > Guardian hardcounters thief and has done so since the beginning of the game > > > Necro depends on skill level... at lower skill levels its really easy for the necro to random down a thief. skilled vs skilled would favor the thief like 20/ 80? but a necro that knows how to 1 v 1 and doesn't panic is super rare so... > > > > > > yes, a 'good' thief should be able to position perfectly, bait skills out, and out maneuver against 'insert profession here' but against an equally good player they would be able to counter a thief in just as many ways. there are almost no favorable match ups for thief and a bunch of hardcounters running around in wvw. most zerg builds have enough sustain to reach a safe tower unless they're being dumb and decide that, "of course, why shouldn't i be able to beat that roamer on my zerg build?" > > > > > > the irony is out of all the classes i could find all alone in wvw... i'm most excited to find another thief... since then i'm almost guaranteed to get a bag. > > > > I would be inclined to side with your analysis of thief if I had not seen a highly skilled thief in action. > > > > I saw a sword pistol core thief defeat a skilled boonbeast 1 on 1 with well timed interrupts and bursts. > > I've seen that boonbeast dueling others and his win rate was usually at least 90%. > > It was just mind-blowing at a stage when everyone (except corrupt necros) seems to be struggling against boonbeast builds, which are becoming just as prevalent as LB builds. > > i mean.. no offense but... how often do you see that happen? yes, i've seen 1 thief beat a big bad boonbeast therefore thief must be a strong 1 v 1er. there's a gap in logic there somewhere... Yes, the gap in logic is your average personal experience in your average tier with the enemies you meet on average vs the known capabilities of the class in the hands of good players. The class **should** be judged on the latter. Its like... I can beat 9 out of 10 condi mirages I meet in a 1v1. Because I bring cleanse. And I can also beat 9 out of 10 thieves. Because I bring sustain. Should I argue that the mesmer and thief is the worst 1v1 classes based on how often I see good players? No because thats not really representative of the capabilities of the class. The good players set the standard. Anything else just indicate how *easy* it is against players that cant fight the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emi.4152 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"Emi.4152" said: > > > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said: > > > > @"Emi.4152" said: > > > > I'm honestly surprised by thief being in 4th for 1 v 1. at least in my own experience. > > > > > > > > Mesmer 20/ 80 ish for the thief if power. 60 / 40 if condi? but only if they feel like sticking around. something like that > > > > Ranger hardcounters thief. at equal skill levels there is no reason a ranger should ever lose > > > > Engineer hardcounters thief. or rather, holo hardcounters thief. if the stars align the thief might have a chance? > > > > Warrior 50 / 50 if skilled vs skilled. low to average skill level matchups would be heavily in the warrior's favor i would think. > > > > Revenant 70 / 30? ish in the favor of the rev > > > > Elementalist like 70 / 30 ish in favor of ele. unless its yolo fresh air... then... who knows~ > > > > Guardian hardcounters thief and has done so since the beginning of the game > > > > Necro depends on skill level... at lower skill levels its really easy for the necro to random down a thief. skilled vs skilled would favor the thief like 20/ 80? but a necro that knows how to 1 v 1 and doesn't panic is super rare so... > > > > > > > > yes, a 'good' thief should be able to position perfectly, bait skills out, and out maneuver against 'insert profession here' but against an equally good player they would be able to counter a thief in just as many ways. there are almost no favorable match ups for thief and a bunch of hardcounters running around in wvw. most zerg builds have enough sustain to reach a safe tower unless they're being dumb and decide that, "of course, why shouldn't i be able to beat that roamer on my zerg build?" > > > > > > > > the irony is out of all the classes i could find all alone in wvw... i'm most excited to find another thief... since then i'm almost guaranteed to get a bag. > > > > > > I would be inclined to side with your analysis of thief if I had not seen a highly skilled thief in action. > > > > > > I saw a sword pistol core thief defeat a skilled boonbeast 1 on 1 with well timed interrupts and bursts. > > > I've seen that boonbeast dueling others and his win rate was usually at least 90%. > > > It was just mind-blowing at a stage when everyone (except corrupt necros) seems to be struggling against boonbeast builds, which are becoming just as prevalent as LB builds. > > > > i mean.. no offense but... how often do you see that happen? yes, i've seen 1 thief beat a big bad boonbeast therefore thief must be a strong 1 v 1er. there's a gap in logic there somewhere... > > Yes, the gap in logic is your average personal experience in your average tier with the enemies you meet on average vs the known capabilities of the class in the hands of good players. > > The class **should** be judged on the latter. > > Its like... I can beat 9 out of 10 condi mirages I meet in a 1v1. Because I bring cleanse. And I can also beat 9 out of 10 thieves. Because I bring sustain. > > Should I argue that the mesmer and thief is the worst 1v1 classes based on how often I see good players? > > No because thats not really representative of the capabilities of the class. The good players set the standard. Anything else just indicate how *easy* it is against players that cant fight the class. I'm not entirely sure what you're arguing for or against Oo granted, balancing for the top level players makes a certain amount of sense, but should not be the only thing that balance should be based on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"Emi.4152" said: > > > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said: > > > > @"Emi.4152" said: > > > > I'm honestly surprised by thief being in 4th for 1 v 1. at least in my own experience. > > > > > > > > Mesmer 20/ 80 ish for the thief if power. 60 / 40 if condi? but only if they feel like sticking around. something like that > > > > Ranger hardcounters thief. at equal skill levels there is no reason a ranger should ever lose > > > > Engineer hardcounters thief. or rather, holo hardcounters thief. if the stars align the thief might have a chance? > > > > Warrior 50 / 50 if skilled vs skilled. low to average skill level matchups would be heavily in the warrior's favor i would think. > > > > Revenant 70 / 30? ish in the favor of the rev > > > > Elementalist like 70 / 30 ish in favor of ele. unless its yolo fresh air... then... who knows~ > > > > Guardian hardcounters thief and has done so since the beginning of the game > > > > Necro depends on skill level... at lower skill levels its really easy for the necro to random down a thief. skilled vs skilled would favor the thief like 20/ 80? but a necro that knows how to 1 v 1 and doesn't panic is super rare so... > > > > > > > > yes, a 'good' thief should be able to position perfectly, bait skills out, and out maneuver against 'insert profession here' but against an equally good player they would be able to counter a thief in just as many ways. there are almost no favorable match ups for thief and a bunch of hardcounters running around in wvw. most zerg builds have enough sustain to reach a safe tower unless they're being dumb and decide that, "of course, why shouldn't i be able to beat that roamer on my zerg build?" > > > > > > > > the irony is out of all the classes i could find all alone in wvw... i'm most excited to find another thief... since then i'm almost guaranteed to get a bag. > > > > > > I would be inclined to side with your analysis of thief if I had not seen a highly skilled thief in action. > > > > > > I saw a sword pistol core thief defeat a skilled boonbeast 1 on 1 with well timed interrupts and bursts. > > > I've seen that boonbeast dueling others and his win rate was usually at least 90%. > > > It was just mind-blowing at a stage when everyone (except corrupt necros) seems to be struggling against boonbeast builds, which are becoming just as prevalent as LB builds. > > > > i mean.. no offense but... how often do you see that happen? yes, i've seen 1 thief beat a big bad boonbeast therefore thief must be a strong 1 v 1er. there's a gap in logic there somewhere... > > Yes, the gap in logic is your average personal experience in your average tier with the enemies you meet on average vs the known capabilities of the class in the hands of good players. > > The class **should** be judged on the latter. > > Its like... I can beat 9 out of 10 condi mirages I meet in a 1v1. Because I bring cleanse. And I can also beat 9 out of 10 thieves. Because I bring sustain. > > Should I argue that the mesmer and thief is the worst 1v1 classes based on how often I see good players? > > No because thats not really representative of the capabilities of the class. The good players set the standard. Anything else just indicate how *easy* it is against players that cant fight the class. Yeah no! If a player has to be really skilled to play a class and be as effective as all other classes with average players than somthing is wrong,like ur logic. I’ve seen great core necro’s so gues there in a great spot to. We’ve all seen great players on all classes so by u and few others logic thier all in great spots lol so gues balance achieved,good job arenet lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 A great player can polish any turd lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > Halo,soulbeast, mirage and warrior rule the 1v1’s Eles and thief’s have to out play their opponents unless they are against the few they counter, or players not aware of their surroundings, been ganked by few DE’s but if they fail the burst which is often their dead or they run because they can’t do anything else lol.guards are great 1v1 aswell just don’t have any disengaging capabilities unless dh and even then not good of pressured by out numbered fights that consist of classes with better mobility. People complain about thiefs ability to reset even though their sustain is to low to stay and fight and lets be real here, these days classes like holo,soulbeast mirage list goes on can reset mid fight while laughing, they don’t need to reposition lol Hahaha the times of warrior being on a number one spot in 1v1s are long gone, what year are you playing at? 2013? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > Halo,soulbeast, mirage and warrior rule the 1v1’s Eles and thief’s have to out play their opponents unless they are against the few they counter, or players not aware of their surroundings, been ganked by few DE’s but if they fail the burst which is often their dead or they run because they can’t do anything else lol.guards are great 1v1 aswell just don’t have any disengaging capabilities unless dh and even then not good of pressured by out numbered fights that consist of classes with better mobility. People complain about thiefs ability to reset even though their sustain is to low to stay and fight and lets be real here, these days classes like holo,soulbeast mirage list goes on can reset mid fight while laughing, they don’t need to reposition lol > > Hahaha the times of warrior being on a number one spot in 1v1s are long gone, what year are you playing at? 2013? Who said warrior was #1? I believe I said mirage,ranger,engi(holo) and warrior last. So u think in 1v1 sbr or core warrior don’t fare well against necro,thief and guard? Sry I forgot to put rev in list lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > I’ve seen great core necro’s so gues there in a great spot to. We’ve all seen great players on all classes so by u and few others logic thier all in great spots lol so gues balance achieved,good job arenet lol See, you do understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > I’ve seen great core necro’s so gues there in a great spot to. We’ve all seen great players on all classes so by u and few others logic thier all in great spots lol so gues balance achieved,good job arenet lol > See, you do understand it. Haha I think I do! The way forums are around here DE must be most balanced of all,seems like a lot of players are performing well on it and are using it to its potential lol thanks for changing my outlook :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodjur.1284 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > U guys need to reassess ur tactics if thief is 1v1 u regularly if ur on any class other than necro or mesmer > > > > > > > > > > Even reaper stands a good chance vs melee theif. > > > > > > > > Lul. If you're a good thief, even the best reaper won't even hit you once > > > > > > Not talking about deadeye. > > > > Yeah. And I'm talking about daredevil > > I don't remember seeing a "good" delaredevil effortlessly beat, let alone not get hit as you say vs a reaper since way, way before pof, way before dash got nerfed, pi got nerfed, AA got nerfed. Then you must simply not see many good or even mediocre daredevils. Reaper vs Thief (de, dd or core) is probably the most lopsided matchup in the game. Since the recent big reaper nerf it's even sillier as reaper can't just spiteful spirit+procs to at least kill terrible thieves. > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said: > > > I saw a sword pistol core thief defeat a skilled boonbeast 1 on 1 with well timed interrupts and bursts. > > > I've seen that boonbeast dueling others and his win rate was usually at least 90%. > > > It was just mind-blowing at a stage when everyone (except corrupt necros) seems to be struggling against boonbeast builds, which are becoming just as prevalent as LB builds. > > I had a duel on S/P thief with a boonbeast. It was a 10 minute stall match. No chance of killing each other. We both moved on then. > > > > I doubt S/P can reliably kill that cancerbeast. Sword is too static and predicable. Just move to 1200 range to recover (ez for a boonbeast) and the thief can't reach you anymore with instant bursts as long as steal is on cooldown. > > > > So I think your boonbeast had pretty bad positioning. > > U sir are a very good player to pose a draw on boonbeast. Does anyone even play boonbeast, it seems terrible for WvW. I only encounter one ever few days even while roaming a few hours a day, and I can't recall actually dying to one... The build seems very overhyped for WvW. Even if it was good it doesn't seem that cancer to fight, a build with medium tankiness, healing and damage seems like an overall very fair build. > @"Emi.4152" said: > I'm honestly surprised by thief being in 4th for 1 v 1. at least in my own experience. > > Mesmer 20/ 80 ish for the thief if power. 60 / 40 if condi? but only if they feel like sticking around. something like that > Ranger hardcounters thief. at equal skill levels there is no reason a ranger should ever lose > Engineer hardcounters thief. or rather, holo hardcounters thief. if the stars align the thief might have a chance? > Warrior 50 / 50 if skilled vs skilled. low to average skill level matchups would be heavily in the warrior's favor i would think. > Revenant 70 / 30? ish in the favor of the rev > Elementalist like 70 / 30 ish in favor of ele. unless its yolo fresh air... then... who knows~ > Guardian hardcounters thief and has done so since the beginning of the game > Necro depends on skill level... at lower skill levels its really easy for the necro to random down a thief. skilled vs skilled would favor the thief like 20/ 80? but a necro that knows how to 1 v 1 and doesn't panic is super rare so... > > yes, a 'good' thief should be able to position perfectly, bait skills out, and out maneuver against 'insert profession here' but against an equally good player they would be able to counter a thief in just as many ways. there are almost no favorable match ups for thief and a bunch of hardcounters running around in wvw. most zerg builds have enough sustain to reach a safe tower unless they're being dumb and decide that, "of course, why shouldn't i be able to beat that roamer on my zerg build?" > > the irony is out of all the classes i could find all alone in wvw... i'm most excited to find another thief... since then i'm almost guaranteed to get a bag. Disagree on this. Thief def earns at least 4th spot. You can beat most classes 1v1 if good. Warrior is way better than 50/50, depending a bit on build Necro is more like 95/5 if both are remotely good, there's just no counterplay the necro can really do Guardian should be easy Rev I can't say honestly, haven't really played the MU Ele varies a lot depending on build Holo generally counters thief I believe, found them easy to kill on my holo at least. Condi mirage is good vs Thief, Power mirage isn't great, but not awful Ranger I am not certain, I'd have to imagine it's in the rangers favor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovu.7560 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Rangers and thieves explode each other. I can 100->0 a glass thief with the press of two buttons on my zerk SB (assuming they forget where their dodge key is) but I'm running a build that can be 2 shot by those same thieves if they happen to get the drop -- and they have a lot of tools to allow them to get the drop. The fight ends quickly, regardless. To say "ranger hardcounters thief" would be a lie, at best "ranger stalemates a thief" if they're playing tanky. I have a modest 200~ hours or so on my melee daredevil and find the hardest matchups for me are warriors, engineers, druids and dragonhunters (I get so easily baited, and sometimes have difficulty landing that opening blow against their aegis). I'm not sure how, but I have an easier time dealing with mirages on my thief than my ranger. (For that matter I handle them better on my scourge, too. I think its all of the projectile hate mirage has in conjunction with their normal evades.) As for the poll, this is my view. Mesmer Ranger Thief Warrior Engineer Revenant Guardian Necro Elementalist That's how I voted. Ranger and thief are interchangeable, as are warrior and engineer. I actually have difficulty with warriors and engineers on both my ranger and thief. I honestly find roaming necros to be more of a threat than elementalists. ~ Kovu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EremiteAngel.9765 Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 > @"Kovu.7560" said: > Rangers and thieves explode each other. I can 100->0 a glass thief with the press of two buttons on my zerk SB (assuming they forget where their dodge key is) but I'm running a build that can be 2 shot by those same thieves if they happen to get the drop -- and they have a lot of tools to allow them to get the drop. The fight ends quickly, regardless. To say "ranger hardcounters thief" would be a lie, at best "ranger stalemates a thief" if they're playing tanky. > I have a modest 200~ hours or so on my melee daredevil and find the hardest matchups for me are warriors, engineers, druids and dragonhunters (I get so easily baited, and sometimes have difficulty landing that opening blow against their aegis). I'm not sure how, but I have an easier time dealing with mirages on my thief than my ranger. (For that matter I handle them better on my scourge, too. I think its all of the projectile hate mirage has in conjunction with their normal evades.) > > As for the poll, this is my view. > > Mesmer > Ranger > Thief > Warrior > Engineer > Revenant > Guardian > Necro > Elementalist > > That's how I voted. Ranger and thief are interchangeable, as are warrior and engineer. I actually have difficulty with warriors and engineers on both my ranger and thief. > I honestly find roaming necros to be more of a threat than elementalists. > > ~ Kovu But if you're a ranger then Necros will just be bags to you XD And as we pass the 100 votes mark, here are the results for most OP 1 vs 1 combat strength class beginning 2019! 2.5 Mesmer 2.9 Ranger 3.5 Engineer 4.2 Thief 5.3 Revenant 5.3 Warrior 6.1 Elementalist 7.2 Guardian 8.0 Necro Thank you all for the participation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now