hugo.4705 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 That map is special, we are at a limit where jormag minions, primordius and branded could "cohabit". Indeed: Destroyers in Mount maelstrom and Icebroods in Snowen drifts. (Branded where we are, Thunderhead peaks) :) I noticed something when travelling through maps recently: Does an elder dragon avoid to corrupt minions already corrupted by another dragon? They are 0 map since the beginning where you can meet two types of draconic minions! And if it was the case, would they fight together? I don't think so but maybe? :p But here is where I arrive: They are 0 branded asuras or sylvaris. Why? They are located on mordremoth domain. Whereas we can find risen asuras due to the pact presence in Orr. But then, who is corrupted by primordius? We never saw fire-asuras... oh wait.. asuras turn into destroyers when corrupted? That's strange. Argh it's easier with kralkatorrik! So now, asuras and sylvaris have more chances to become branded... ;o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Andrew Gray.5816 Posted January 17, 2019 ArenaNet Staff Share Posted January 17, 2019 Dragon Minions cannot be corrupted by other dragons. That's why the Sylvari are immune to Zhaitan's magic in Orr. At the time they just thought they were special or something, but by Season 2 it's revealed to be because they were already technically minions of Mordremoth. Dragon's Watch (and mortals in general) have very little insight into the dragons' motivations or thought process to deduce why they tend to not overlap. (Though as a side note, if I recall correctly, when Mordremoth got all riled up he did mess up some waypoints in maps that other minions exist in.) Destroyers are forged by Primordus rather than being existing creatures that are corrupted. Some are forged in shapes of existing creatures, but they are hand-made by Primordus. He is a special snowflake (a giant, lava snowflake) in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugo.4705 Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 Oh thanks for that helpful answer! Ah Primordus he is special.. maybe he is the nicer elder dragon after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Andrew Gray.5816 Posted January 17, 2019 ArenaNet Staff Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"hugo.4705" said: > Oh thanks for that helpful answer! Ah Primordus he is special.. maybe he is the nicer elder dragon after all. I can assure you he has a very warm embrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Could dragon minions be corrupted if whichever dragon they belong to was killed? Like, could Sylvari now be corruptible since Mordremoth is gone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugo.4705 Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 Ah thx! Got the same question in my head too! :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H.6142 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Some current events have caused dragon minions to collide, and they will fight each other. I think this happened in The Mordrem invasion and ley energy collecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Doesn't Subject Alpha show that multi corruption is possible though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugo.4705 Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"Randulf.7614" said: > Doesn't Subject Alpha show that multi corruption is possible though? Yeah and simulacrum of subject Beta too in sandswept my guess is dragons are avoiding themselves, but you can force it like anything else through experimentation. Impossible isn't Inquest! (Should become my new catchphrase.. xD) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 What about what happened at the end of the second story instance of this episode? Not to give out any spoilers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"Andrew Gray.5816" said: > Dragon Minions cannot be corrupted by other dragons. That's why the Sylvari are immune to Zhaitan's magic in Orr. But it was stated in-game that the immunity came from the Pale Tree's protection during Season 2, and this was **restated** in the promotions for Heart of Thorns as if to reaffirm any doubt that the prior statements were due to the unknown revelation: Pale Tree: There are those who reject _my protection_. It leaves them vulnerable in ways they cannot imagine, in ways they never were before. _I shield you_ as best I can and will for as long as I can. PC:You're talking about dragon corruption. We've been immune to it. Pale Tree: Yes. In the past, my children have been immune. But Mordremoth's corruption is powerful, and just as Zhaitan created the undead from so many creatures, so Mordremoth's corruption can change you. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rallying_Call PC: Sylvari were invulnerable to corruption. But not with Mordremoth. Why? Ogden Stonehealer: You refer to Scarlet and Aerin. Similar symptoms. Yes. Ogden Stonehealer: I am no expert, but they're immature as a race. Their concept of nightmare and Dream is simplistic at best. Ogden Stonehealer: Too black and white, too unsophisticated to explain the changes affecting some of them. Ogden Stonehealer: _The Pale Tree is said to protect them_ from the corruption of the other dragons. They both rejected her, no? Ogden Stonehealer: It makes sense that sylvari would be vulnerable to Mordremoth, a plant-based being like themselves. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Arcana#At_the_Durmand_Priory The Elder Dragon can implant thoughts in its creations—thoughts they may even believe to be their own—and only a combination of immense willpower _and the protection of the Pale Tree_ can prevent Mordremoth from taking control. https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/points-of-interest-episode-18-summary/ So request for clarify: Is the PoI article being retconned under the usual "what happens in-game take canonical precedence", or is the Points of Interest article incorrect/misleading and refers to something other than the immunity to dragon corruption the phrase was used for months prior? And how does Subject Alpha, Kudu's Monster, and Subject Beta, all of whom show multiple dragons' corruption, fit into this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"Matt H.6142" said: > Some current events have caused dragon minions to collide, and they will fight each other. I think this happened in The Mordrem invasion and ley energy collecting. We actually have only seen dragon minions interact with each other in CoE, when they are apparently under Alpha's control. The Mordrem Invasion did have a mordrem event at a spot a destroyer event occurs, and they could occur simultaneously, but the mordrem in the invasions were set to invisible / neutral to all other NPCs, so the only way to get the destroyers and mordrem to fight - or mordrem and NC, or mordrem and centaur, or mordrem and bears - would be to get the mordrem to damage a destroyer or vice versa while they're attacking players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walhalla.5473 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 > @"Randulf.7614" said: > Doesn't Subject Alpha show that multi corruption is possible though? Not only Subject Alpha, but Kudu's Monster from CoE Story Mode and Subject Beta also show that cross corruption is possible and if the Inquest can do this, the Elder Dragons should also be able to do multi corruptions. My guess was always that a minions doesn't switch its master when its corruted by another dragon. Basically that a Risen who got branded would still be loyal to Zhaitan instead of switching over to Kralkatorrik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > @"Andrew Gray.5816" said: > > Dragon Minions cannot be corrupted by other dragons. That's why the Sylvari are immune to Zhaitan's magic in Orr. > > But it was stated in-game that the immunity came from the Pale Tree's protection during Season 2, and this was **restated** in the promotions for Heart of Thorns as if to reaffirm any doubt that the prior statements were due to the unknown revelation: > > Pale Tree: There are those who reject _my protection_. It leaves them vulnerable in ways they cannot imagine, in ways they never were before. _I shield you_ as best I can and will for as long as I can. > PC:You're talking about dragon corruption. We've been immune to it. > Pale Tree: Yes. In the past, my children have been immune. But Mordremoth's corruption is powerful, and just as Zhaitan created the undead from so many creatures, so Mordremoth's corruption can change you. > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rallying_Call > > PC: Sylvari were invulnerable to corruption. But not with Mordremoth. Why? > Ogden Stonehealer: You refer to Scarlet and Aerin. Similar symptoms. Yes. > Ogden Stonehealer: I am no expert, but they're immature as a race. Their concept of nightmare and Dream is simplistic at best. > Ogden Stonehealer: Too black and white, too unsophisticated to explain the changes affecting some of them. > Ogden Stonehealer: _The Pale Tree is said to protect them_ from the corruption of the other dragons. They both rejected her, no? > Ogden Stonehealer: It makes sense that sylvari would be vulnerable to Mordremoth, a plant-based being like themselves. > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Arcana#At_the_Durmand_Priory > > The Elder Dragon can implant thoughts in its creations—thoughts they may even believe to be their own—and only a combination of immense willpower _and the protection of the Pale Tree_ can prevent Mordremoth from taking control. > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/points-of-interest-episode-18-summary/ > > > So request for clarify: Is the PoI article being retconned under the usual "what happens in-game take canonical precedence", or is the Points of Interest article incorrect/misleading and refers to something other than the immunity to dragon corruption the phrase was used for months prior? > > And how does Subject Alpha, Kudu's Monster, and Subject Beta, all of whom show multiple dragons' corruption, fit into this? I noticed a lot of the quotes from Ogden and the Pale Tree are before Sylvari were discovered to be dragon minions. It’s possible that Ogden has incorrect information and that the Pale Tree is an unreliable narrator, trying to still guard her secret. It would simplify the story though, if it’s because Sylvari are dragon minions, that they couldn’t be corrupted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > I noticed a lot of the quotes from Ogden and the Pale Tree are before Sylvari were discovered to be dragon minions. It’s possible that Ogden has incorrect information and that the Pale Tree is an unreliable narrator, trying to still guard her secret. It would simplify the story though, if it’s because Sylvari are dragon minions, that they couldn’t be corrupted. Hence my addition of post-reveal that restates it from an Word of God (thus not unreliable narrator) source. And I would disagree about it simplifying. Because it raises the questions about Subject Alpha, Kudu's Monster, and even Caithe in this new episode even being possible. And you then have to create some convoluted "well, dragon minions can't be corrupted by other dragons except in xyz situations". Whereas with the Dream being the protection, it would then be some external force preventing corruption, similar to the Forgotten's/Exalted's magic being incorruptible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > I noticed a lot of the quotes from Ogden and the Pale Tree are before Sylvari were discovered to be dragon minions. It’s possible that Ogden has incorrect information and that the Pale Tree is an unreliable narrator, trying to still guard her secret. It would simplify the story though, if it’s because Sylvari are dragon minions, that they couldn’t be corrupted. > > Hence my addition of post-reveal that restates it from an Word of God (thus not unreliable narrator) source. Sorry, I didn’t see the reference. > "well, dragon minions can't be corrupted by other dragons except in xyz situations". . I suspect this will be the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 I do wonder if Subject Alpha and Kudu’s monster were exposed to several different dragon energies at the same time. One should really ask the question if a human is placed in an arena and is shot by equal amounts of dragon energy from 4 different dragon sources, whose minion does it become? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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