Since this latest patch has a support Fractal Firebrand build been established?

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > Please no, unless you are absolutely new to the game and are eating attacks left and right, there is no reason to take toughness unless for tanking purposes (which is raids). Maybe a bit vitality on support Firebrand since you are over-capping boon duration a lot with full harrier if you want to feel slightly safer and are inexperienced. Even that is not needed though, survival with 11.5k base hit points is more than doable.

>

> no matter how you a experienced, we talking about common role for support, and if we not go with magic 500kp party we should be ready that half party will be eat everything, and donwstate will be part of rotation. So now you choose: leave that party, or asap ress and during that eat too.

 

While I am critical of PUG groups, sorry but with this kind of performance I will leave the group (unless it's guildies). If my healing output on a harrier Firebrand is not good enough to keep people alive in T4 fractals, the people in group need to go back to T2 or T3 and are way out of their league in T4.

 

At the same time, every point invested in toughness is a point not going to healing, boon duration or power. That's 2/3rds of stats wasted on a support build.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

FB already get 250 toughness from quickness.

[Nephalem.8921]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"Nephalem.8921" said:

> >Removing any boon duration scaling from SOI was a huge mistake.

> I am playing chrno long time too, and think that soi changes don't break something totaly. Dont't like soi and think that it nerfed ? - so remove it at all from utils bar. How I understand main idea of that change was possibilitie use other utils configuration, and no any mistake - idea implemented. As fb you can choose many variaty from skills, and this is ok !

 

It allows chronos to run almost no boon duration gear in raids and low boon duration in fractals while providing alacrity + quickness. They have way too high dps that way. Renegade for example needs crazy high boon duration just for alacrity and can get outdamaged by a boon chrono on some fractal bosses.

Boon chronos take the double phantasm strike trait now which is just way too strong on a support role.

[lare.5129]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

 

> While I am critical of PUG groups, sorry but with this kind of performance I will leave the group

so don't forget to keep this mind in any comment about builds and stats, especial from support side

 

> At the same time, every point invested in toughness is a point not going to healing, boon duration or power. That's 2/3rds of stats wasted on a support build.

power without cap precision and ferosity also don't bring to you insane profit. If you will up dps from 2k to 4k and give some additional change to trigger yourself in downstate mostly with rule that is you die - die all team, if dps - you bring he back , or continue survive 4/5

 

 

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

>

> > While I am critical of PUG groups, sorry but with this kind of performance I will leave the group

> so don't forget to keep this mind in any comment about builds and stats, especial from support side

>

> > At the same time, every point invested in toughness is a point not going to healing, boon duration or power. That's 2/3rds of stats wasted on a support build.

> power without cap precision and ferosity also don't bring to you insane profit. If you will up dps from 2k to 4k and give some additional change to trigger yourself in downstate mostly with rule that is you die - die all team, if dps - you bring he back , or continue survive 4/5

>

>

 

Except power is a must take, since I can't go 2 stats on ascended gear.

 

I said 2/3rds loss specifically because of power being useless.

[vaxjani.9073]

> @"Yasi.9065" said:

> As for 1-healer pug t4+cms runs this is what we have had best results on:

> - 1 Harrier renegade

> - 1 Power Firebrand with Pack Runes

> - 1 Power Bannerwarrior PS

> - 2 power DPS

>

> Boon remove is an issue, because if you force bannerwarrior to play a tactics spellbreaker build, thats quite a dps loss. However, theres several dps builds that you can run on boon-heavy instability days. Holosmith with mines, daredevil with trickery, power chrono. For "unproblematic" fractals with boons your renegade can just play mallyx instead of ventari. It reduces kalla uptime, but its an easy solution.

 

I would personally change the renegade to Harrier + Zealot with dev, salvation + Pack Runes. It heals enough already without Monk Runes and Pack also gives the same boon duration. Full Harrier is an overkill (you only need full armor + earrings with Potent Lucent Oil and Concentration sigil with 170 agony), and with the rest Zealot + Pack you can reach 100% crit chance. This also means your FB can take Scholar Runes.

 

Also Tactics Spb isnt that much of a dps loss. Most Spb i see play it with Strength and its fine but it is harder to play and worse in adapting (would only recommend in really fast kills where you only have to remove boons 1 per phase).

I personally play it with Discipline, playing with Spb 1-1-1 and Break Enchantments. It plays literally the same as Core Warrior. When the boons pop up you just remove them with the utility. This means you dont have to swap to your second weapon set and be stuck on it for 10s, you only have to swap for breakbars (you can use mace instead of dagger for CC as it gives more breakbar damage). This is especially good for MAMA where you have to CC and remove boons from the adds quickly while still being able to swap back to Axe for dps on the boss after CCs.

And its damage is still pretty close to core warrior on every encounter (around 1k less on average).

 

 

 

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

You don't need PS with Ren. F2 gives you 15 mights (~20 sec or more, I don't remember) every 8sec with alacrity; FB can pre-buff mights too before engaging.

Tactics ? Even you're all power berserker/diviner I don't know if it is worth the DPS sacrifice to play Empower Allies in 5man group *Unless you play war of course, and not SpB.

 

After that, IMO there is not "one" optimal comp.

I mean of course, ren+fb+war+soulbeast+dps is strong. Support FB+war+3DPS is worth too. Chrono+War+3DPS still work good too.

But with all the new instabilities and the new fractal I 've also seen good scourge actually doing there job : epidemic, boon removal etc, on contrary I saw more and more thiefs and weavers be OS in the first seconds because of mobs with 25 might fury quickness or 300%dmg and weaver/thief with-30%hp (=8k HP) or birds focusing them. I've also seen this week groups looking for 2 healers/support, like Druid + FB, and no joke it was better than 3 years of chrono+druid.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> No one support class needed diviner stats if we talk about fractals, especialy fb. Support should have lot of toghnees, sometimes vitality and very stable stand on ground, never be in downstate, and ready include take other from downstate in rotation. So harrier is not optimal choose too.

>

> What about raids - yes some setup can be uses deviner, but that don't bring somethig incredably in total count.

>

> Bring for rev diviner - make him totally depend to have fb sup in party - bad idea too.

 

Its more the opposite way around diviner stats are far superior for support hybrid built which we use in fractals. Same support with more dps it is very simple . In raids chrono were tanks too so they use stats whit toughness which diviner stats don't have. And yes I know you can't crit with this gear .

 

But I also think looking in wvw into those stats for support rev there is a idea .

 

> @"Nephalem.8921" said:

> > @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said:

> > The problem(s) with FB+ Rev is who of the 2 should be healer ? I would say FB because he is a worse dps and better at healing and a lot more boons.

> > Until the news stats came there were no real alternative Rev became automatically a healer too( with harrier stats)

> >

> > Rev and chrono should run both diviner stats now . There are also the problem Rev is incredible raw to see in pve

> >

> > FB can work with both with chrono the down side is you need to change a mantra to might and the amount of fury is a bit low.

> >

> > A support rev on the other side can't really work with a druid you get an insane amount of might but no quickness

>

> Power or even condi FB are far superior dps to rene. Revenant has still huge energy problems even after 4 years. You are either mediocre dps and have no support or good support and kitten dps. Especially alacrity rene since it needs 78% boon duration for perma alacrity.

> Also Fb has a lot of burst while rene has almost none. Fractals were designed without a healer in mind. You really don't need a healer for most of the fractals. In fact playing fb + diviner rene feels like playing with a pug druid because kalla elite adds so much heal without investing in any healing power. It will pretty much die completely if they ever nerf it though. Power revenant needs buffs in pve. Or chrono needs dps nerfs. Rene provides only alacrity + lifesteal and can get outdamaged by a boonchrono on some fights. Removing any boon duration scaling from SOI was a huge mistake.

 

Energy problem is maybe a reason but you must compare it to the old meta how dmg can you do with a diviner + berserker gear on support rev 3-5k ?(under realistic conditions) Then it is enough . That chrono can outperform rev with the same stats is properly true. I think its a bit of personal taste for me as an ele more boons means more dmg also with quickness Firebrand you don't have all the other perks .

 

Yes SoI is stupid how it works not only doesn't it work properly with the type of content we have it also has an insane exploitable character now like a lot of dps chrono in the group with Soi (or just 1 for fractals) and pre stacking.

 

About the energy problem do the mistlocks singularities rest the amount of energy ? (They should)

I also know about the energy problems I have a condi rev when you use you weapons skills to the fullest you have just enough energy per rota for 1-2 class skills. Which is if you have to use them all a bit low. Maybe they could change it so that using some class skills will give you back 90% of the energy.

 

Edit:

OH someone already done making a build : [https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Renegade_-_Boon_Support_Power_DPS_(Fractal)](https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Renegade_-_Boon_Support_Power_DPS_(Fractal) "https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Renegade_-_Boon_Support_Power_DPS_(Fractal)")

[phs.6089]

I'm not sure toughness in fractals draws aggro. If someone can link me any source of this.

I know several bosses will aggro on downed. I know almost for sure Ensolyss in CM often goes after low HP player.

But I never seen a boss or mob to aggro on toughness, given I had full magi druids in party.

[Asum.4960]

> @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said:

> The problem(s) with FB+ Rev is who of the 2 should be healer ? I would say FB because he is a worse dps and better at healing and a lot more boons.

> Until the news stats came there were no real alternative Rev became automatically a healer too( with harrier stats)

>

> Rev and chrono should run both diviner stats now . There are also the problem Rev is incredible raw to see in pve

>

> FB can work with both with chrono the down side is you need to change a mantra to might and the amount of fury is a bit low.

>

> A support rev on the other side can't really work with a druid you get an insane amount of might but no quickness

 

FB is both the superior hybrid DPS (Quickbrand) as well as Healer/support (Harrier).

 

Alacrigade is about ~23k DPS, Power Quickbrand is ~25k DPS and Condi Quickbrand ~29k DPS.

 

But since FB is also the better Healer/Boon Support imo, it doesn't really matter.

If you want a safer comp, run support FB and Alacrigade, if you want slightly more DPS, run support Renegade and Quickbrand.

 

FB can run Sword, or preferably Axe for pulls/cc for perma Fury.

Also, Support FB can solo Maintain 25 Might as well, so yea, sup FB also works well with a Chrono.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

I know that my main problem is what I should write in the LFG when I search a group now ?^^

something like : T4 dailies +rec | P+F| Healer , Support , BS , DPS (I'm already in it as dps)

 

The problem is there are some people who recently start to run necro as healer so this isn't really clear

 

Next try : T4 dailies +rec | P+F| Druid/FB , Support , BS , DPS

 

Now someone could think I'm looking for a quickness firebrand argha

 

Next try : T4 dailies +rec | P+F| (Heal : Druid/FB) , Support , BS , DPS

 

Now chrono and rev could be felt left out because I don't name call them

 

Next try : T4 's +rec | P+F| (Heal : Druid/FB) , (Support: Chrono/Rev) , BS , DPS

 

Now I need at least make pointer that I need a FB when I got a Rev

 

Next try : T4 's+rec| P+F| (Heal : Druid/FB) , (Support: Chrono/Rev*) , BS , DPS

 

So now I want to see how someone squeeze EXP or CM and KPs in without getting into the next row^^ (which I'm believe I'm already in testing after this)

 

EDIT : okay way too long

 

Next try : T4 's+rec|P+F|(H:Druid/FB),(S:Chrono/Rev*),BS,DPS ..works kinda

 

[phs.6089]

> @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said:

> I know that my main problem is what I should write in the LFG when I search a group now ?^^

> something like : T4 dailies +rec | P+F| Healer , Support , BS , DPS (I'm already in it as dps)

>

> The problem is there are some people who recently start to run necro as healer so this isn't really clear

>

> Next try : T4 dailies +rec | P+F| Druid/FB , Support , BS , DPS

>

> Now someone could think I'm looking for a quickness firebrand argha

>

> Next try : T4 dailies +rec | P+F| (Heal : Druid/FB) , Support , BS , DPS

>

> Now chrono and rev could be felt left out because I don't name call them

>

> Next try : T4 's +rec | P+F| (Heal : Druid/FB) , (Support: Chrono/Rev) , BS , DPS

>

> Now I need at least make pointer that I need a FB when I got a Rev

>

> Next try : T4 's+rec| P+F| (Heal : Druid/FB) , (Support: Chrono/Rev*) , BS , DPS

>

> So now I want to see how someone squeeze EXP or CM and KPs in without getting into the next row^^ (which I'm believe I'm already in testing after this)

>

> EDIT : okay way too long

>

> Next try : T4 's+rec|P+F|(H:Druid/FB),(S:Chrono/Rev*),BS,DPS ..works kinda

>

 

Try T4s +recs LF babysitter+DPS, works like a charm for me but I don't wait 20-30 minutes for perfect composition

[Yasi.9065]

> @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> You don't need PS with Ren. F2 gives you 15 mights (~20 sec or more, I don't remember) every 8sec with alacrity; FB can pre-buff mights too before engaging.

> Tactics ? Even you're all power berserker/diviner I don't know if it is worth the DPS sacrifice to play Empower Allies in 5man group *Unless you play war of course, and not SpB.

 

Thats where you are quite wrong. Energy constraints (and radius) make might buffing on renegade a farce. The shorter the fight, the less of a problem it is ofc. But I can tell you from experience that renegade might stack is very spotty and it drops to zero when you need it most... due to the renegade running out of energy and having to prioritize between alacrity, kalla elite and might. You'd have to drop AP for invigoration, which is quite a dps loss in fractals... not to mention you will still run out of energy.

Effectively its more like 10 might upkeep, and thats only when everything works out nicely. If you have to cc on renegade, then you are mostly down to around 8. If you have to heal a lot - which is rather normal in pug grps - then you are down to basically 0.

Core bannerwarrior is already meta, and for longer fights you can just bring dumplings and precast elite banner at singularity. Together with the might from firebrand (scepter) and **some** might from renegade you are at 25 without really loosing anything... this whole thing becomes an issue if you want to use spellbreaker for boon remove... and only then. But theres other options for that.

 

> @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> After that, IMO there is not "one" optimal comp.

> I mean of course, ren+fb+war+soulbeast+dps is strong. Support FB+war+3DPS is worth too. Chrono+War+3DPS still work good too.

> But with all the new instabilities and the new fractal I 've also seen good scourge actually doing there job : epidemic, boon removal etc, on contrary I saw more and more thiefs and weavers be OS in the first seconds because of mobs with 25 might fury quickness or 300%dmg and weaver/thief with-30%hp (=8k HP) or birds focusing them. I've also seen this week groups looking for 2 healers/support, like Druid + FB, and no joke it was better than 3 years of chrono+druid.

 

No, Im sorry. But Im not talking about t4 pug groups here. Im talking about a meta comp for t4+CMs that works with players put together from lfg. Your scourge "might" have done a good job, but I can tell you right away, even a holosmith can do the same and do more boss dps. In terms of aoe boon remove, domi dps chrono is unsurpassed and for single target mallyx on renegade is better than anything Ive seen.

And ofc fb is better. FB has instant casts and you "only" have to stack properly. No difficult rotation. No placing wells perfectly. No CS.

[Yasi.9065]

> @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said:

> I know that my main problem is what I should write in the LFG when I search a group now ?^^

> something like : T4 dailies +rec | P+F| Healer , Support , BS , DPS (I'm already in it as dps)

>

> The problem is there are some people who recently start to run necro as healer so this isn't really clear

>

> Next try : T4 dailies +rec | P+F| Druid/FB , Support , BS , DPS

>

> Now someone could think I'm looking for a quickness firebrand argha

>

> Next try : T4 dailies +rec | P+F| (Heal : Druid/FB) , Support , BS , DPS

>

> Now chrono and rev could be felt left out because I don't name call them

>

> Next try : T4 's +rec | P+F| (Heal : Druid/FB) , (Support: Chrono/Rev) , BS , DPS

>

> Now I need at least make pointer that I need a FB when I got a Rev

>

> Next try : T4 's+rec| P+F| (Heal : Druid/FB) , (Support: Chrono/Rev*) , BS , DPS

>

> So now I want to see how someone squeeze EXP or CM and KPs in without getting into the next row^^ (which I'm believe I'm already in testing after this)

>

> EDIT : okay way too long

>

> Next try : T4 's+rec|P+F|(H:Druid/FB),(S:Chrono/Rev*),BS,DPS ..works kinda

>

 

On t4s you just have to make sure you have might, protection, quickness, fury. Boon remove on days with boon instabilities. Cleave for fractals with lots of adds (cliffside, underground etc.). Dont overcomplicate things, its only t4 without CMs.

 

For t4+CMs, you have to be more specific. But ofc, you can search for fb, harrier renegade, bannerPS and boonremove (if necessary).

 

Apropos boonremove. On Vengeance instability you dont really need to bother with it atm, just pull adds nicely and they die before doing much harm.

[Yasi.9065]

> @"Asum.4960" said:

> > @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said:

> > The problem(s) with FB+ Rev is who of the 2 should be healer ? I would say FB because he is a worse dps and better at healing and a lot more boons.

> > Until the news stats came there were no real alternative Rev became automatically a healer too( with harrier stats)

> >

> > Rev and chrono should run both diviner stats now . There are also the problem Rev is incredible raw to see in pve

> >

> > FB can work with both with chrono the down side is you need to change a mantra to might and the amount of fury is a bit low.

> >

> > A support rev on the other side can't really work with a druid you get an insane amount of might but no quickness

>

> FB is both the superior hybrid DPS (Quickbrand) as well as Healer/support (Harrier).

>

> Alacrigade is about ~23k DPS, Power Quickbrand is ~25k DPS and Condi Quickbrand ~29k DPS.

>

> But since FB is also the better Healer/Boon Support imo, it doesn't really matter.

> If you want a safer comp, run support FB and Alacrigade, if you want slightly more DPS, run support Renegade and Quickbrand.

>

> FB can run Sword, or preferably Axe for pulls/cc for perma Fury.

> Also, Support FB can solo Maintain 25 Might as well, so yea, sup FB also works well with a Chrono.

 

What people tend to forget is that kalla elite uptime is very important to determine the "real" dmg of div renegade. You can say in fractals 10% uptime are about 1k per player, thats a really rough estimation, so you get an idea of it. A harrier renegade usually has a higher kalla elite uptime if things run smoothly, a diviner renegade has better uptime when things go down the drain.

 

I contest btw that fb is the better healer. A harrier renegade can heal through agony. A fb cant. A power fb can still put out enough aegis to comfortably lazily ignore mechanics, a harrier renegade can bring ventari tablet projectile hate.

 

Might on fb is a lot like might on renegade. It looks nice on paper, but in reality, you have to sacrifice quite a bit to reach and then maintain those 25. And tbh, why even bother with it? Core bannerwarrior is meta. He already runs the traits for it. At the most you have to bring dumplings instead of the expensive food that shall not be named. Shifting might onto bannerwarrior also has the added benefit that you are totally flexible. You can run div or harrier renegade, paired with heal or berserker fb. You can run 2 healer, 1 healer or 0 healer, whatever you find first.

[Asum.4960]

> @"Yasi.9065" said:

> > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > > @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said:

> > > The problem(s) with FB+ Rev is who of the 2 should be healer ? I would say FB because he is a worse dps and better at healing and a lot more boons.

> > > Until the news stats came there were no real alternative Rev became automatically a healer too( with harrier stats)

> > >

> > > Rev and chrono should run both diviner stats now . There are also the problem Rev is incredible raw to see in pve

> > >

> > > FB can work with both with chrono the down side is you need to change a mantra to might and the amount of fury is a bit low.

> > >

> > > A support rev on the other side can't really work with a druid you get an insane amount of might but no quickness

> >

> > FB is both the superior hybrid DPS (Quickbrand) as well as Healer/support (Harrier).

> >

> > Alacrigade is about ~23k DPS, Power Quickbrand is ~25k DPS and Condi Quickbrand ~29k DPS.

> >

> > But since FB is also the better Healer/Boon Support imo, it doesn't really matter.

> > If you want a safer comp, run support FB and Alacrigade, if you want slightly more DPS, run support Renegade and Quickbrand.

> >

> > FB can run Sword, or preferably Axe for pulls/cc for perma Fury.

> > Also, Support FB can solo Maintain 25 Might as well, so yea, sup FB also works well with a Chrono.

>

> What people tend to forget is that kalla elite uptime is very important to determine the "real" dmg of div renegade. You can say in fractals 10% uptime are about 1k per player, thats a really rough estimation, so you get an idea of it. A harrier renegade usually has a higher kalla elite uptime if things run smoothly, a diviner renegade has better uptime when things go down the drain.

>

> I contest btw that fb is the better healer. A harrier renegade can heal through agony. A fb cant. A power fb can still put out enough aegis to comfortably lazily ignore mechanics, a harrier renegade can bring ventari tablet projectile hate.

>

> Might on fb is a lot like might on renegade. It looks nice on paper, but in reality, you have to sacrifice quite a bit to reach and then maintain those 25. And tbh, why even bother with it? Core bannerwarrior is meta. He already runs the traits for it. At the most you have to bring dumplings instead of the expensive food that shall not be named. Shifting might onto bannerwarrior also has the added benefit that you are totally flexible. You can run div or harrier renegade, paired with heal or berserker fb. You can run 2 healer, 1 healer or 0 healer, whatever you find first.

 

I've been running support FB almost everyday in CM's + T4 since even before the patch, so about 3 months now, so when I say I can maintain 25 Might better and more consistent than even a Druid, it's not only "on paper", and I don't really feel like I have to sacrifice much for it.

 

The runs are still much smoother than all the ones I tried with a heal Renegade, due to more consistent heals, higher burst heals when needed and better boon support.

 

Playing without full Support FB is kind of painful to me now, as the Stab spam with the elite Mantra etc. preventing all the little knockbacks and dazes in Fractals makes it just so much more enjoyable to me.

Providing every boon aside from Alacrity, very frequent Stability and Aegis as well as Projectile hate and very high sustained healing as well as massive burst healing allows you to carry like nothing else I've seen.

 

There is ofc a possibility that most support Renegades I've played with just haven't been all that good and that it indeed can carry equally hard as a support FB, but it's very hard to find something I can't outheal as FB, even Agony (old SA) + Poison.

The only limit I have found so far was loads of trash with Enraged and with Sugar rush together with Boon Overload, Frailty or Outflanked with lot's of adds.

But even then I can still switch out Radiance for Virtues and heal even more.

 

In the about 8 runs I tried with a support Renegade, I had more wipes than in over 100 runs with Support FB (which makes wiping almost impossible, aside from mechanical group wipes etc).

 

Not saying I don't like both comp's though, not least of all since I appreciate the variety of playing Quickbrand from time to time.

 

 

As for writing LFG's, I can see how it might be a bit confusing what to look for atm.

I generally look for Chrono/Rene, BS, 2DPS, since I can just adjust what I will be playing depending on what joins, but if you are going in as DPS, that obviously doesn't work.

If you want to keep it flexible, looking for Support/Hybrid FB/Ren (or Heal Ren/FB and Quickbrand/Alacrigade) could work, even if it's still somewhat clunky. Then whatever support or hybrid joins first, determines what you are looking for in the other slot.

 

That said, I actually really don't like this be all end all composition mentality this community has, and gladly take some LFG confusion if it means some variety in my daily runs.

[DutchRiders.2871]

Renegade has no burst dps, fire brand does have burst. Hence if anything the renegade should heal. As a healer renegade can still increase damage through cc/Kalla elite.

 

 

However for most groups you will find out that you dont need a healer. With the support renegade and FB bring even on full dps.

[Rodrick.1942]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> I'm not sure toughness in fractals draws aggro. If someone can link me any source of this.

> I know several bosses will aggro on downed. I know almost for sure Ensolyss in CM often goes after low HP player.

> But I never seen a boss or mob to aggro on toughness, given I had full magi druids in party.

 

My experience of being a fully minstrel FB can prove it, usually when I solo support T4 pug. Like in molten boss fractal, dredge usually comes after me first (or in TO with these sunspear ), but to be honest, that make things easier for everyone because I'm the one who control the position of these mobs( or small boss) while maintain all boons( well just no alacrity) and give aegis for teammate to block critical or aoe strike. Plus my healing effect are way higher than other hybrid build.

 

[Zenith.7301]

> @"Yasi.9065" said:

> > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > Fact is most people don't have support renegades since it's an incredibly niche build even in PvE, so the most realistic scenario is that Harrier FB will replace a druid and alongside the zerker/diviner chrono will have a group with perma quickness, alacrity, stability, and a ton of aegis.

> >

> > Druid is not in a great place imo as a healer and is easily replaced by a soulbeast.

> >

> > You would have soulbeast, chrono, harrier fb, bs war, then whatever DPS you want, usually a dragonhunter because break bars are totally busted for burst power specs.

> >

> > It's a complete carry comp and does the fractals in your average group much quicker.

>

> On EU its way easier to find a harrier renegade and a berserker+pack runes firebrand than the reverse. Trying to force a chrono into that comp lowers its value a lot, you either replace kalla elite and more cc with SoI that you dont need in fractals, or blocks, superior dps and signet share with SoI that you dont need.

> Might is something a boonchrono doesnt supply at all anymore, however, if bs has to provide all 25 mightstacks then he needs strength runes (yes, we tested this), lowering bs dps quite a bit.

>

> Why exactly do you want to force a boonchrono in there? Because of pulls? FB GS5 + Tome1 skill3 work nicely, renegade can help out with axe5, but its not even necessary.

> Or is it because of skips? Quite a lot skips a weaver can do as well. Or a daredevil. Or a power chrono

>

> As for 1-healer pug t4+cms runs this is what we have had best results on:

> - 1 Harrier renegade

> - 1 Power Firebrand with Pack Runes

> - 1 Power Bannerwarrior PS

> - 2 power DPS

>

> Boon remove is an issue, because if you force bannerwarrior to play a tactics spellbreaker build, thats quite a dps loss. However, theres several dps builds that you can run on boon-heavy instability days. Holosmith with mines, daredevil with trickery, power chrono. For "unproblematic" fractals with boons your renegade can just play mallyx instead of ventari. It reduces kalla uptime, but its an easy solution.

 

On NA the amount of times I have found a support rene in LFG in the past 2 months since I ask for healer and not specifically a druid is : A SINGLE TIME.

 

It is truly a very niche spec so few people in NA play, I'd rather settle for a Harrier FB since the Harrier FB still serves as a useful healer alongside a chrono for alacrity with stability and aegis spam on top.

 

Support renegade on its own provides....healing and Kalla (since if you don't find a quickbrand, you'll run a chrono anyways). But I'll take nearly perma stab for Skorvald, Artsariv, and MAMA any day over Kalla elite as it will in most realistic scenarios translate to far more DPS by allowing people to turret those hectic phases without getting pinballed around.

 

I love my power chrono DPS above all, but if the team doesn't have a guardian of any kind I will always bring mine instead because I cannot stress how vital stability and aegis are for smooth burn phases, and renegade lacks that.

 

And that's truly the problem, renegade is way more reliant on FB to be attractive to a comp than FB needs renegade to be attractive because guardian utility is crazy stupid.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

You'll lose less to take SpB than take trickery in thief or a power chrono over an other DPS or mines over bomb or grenade kit.

 

You'll lose less to NOT take PS war (because it means runes and/or food/sigil) than to take Lasting Legacy over RR if you play harrier Ren with Salvation (because you don't need RR at all with Ventari) in fractals. I don't know how you test you ren but I can assure you you can maintain perma alacrity perma 25 mights, and Soulcleave and the healing skill one when you swap to kalla.

If you play diviner with Invocation, yes, you can't pass over RR and you can't maintain 25 mights alone, or you sacrifice the perma alacrity for the mights. Still you have FB, may you have weaver, holo to cap the 25.

Stop Making PS war/SpB a thing, it is NOT needed *edit, in a Ren Healer comp.

[zoomborg.9462]

> @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > @"Yasi.9065" said:

> > > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > > Fact is most people don't have support renegades since it's an incredibly niche build even in PvE, so the most realistic scenario is that Harrier FB will replace a druid and alongside the zerker/diviner chrono will have a group with perma quickness, alacrity, stability, and a ton of aegis.

> > >

> > > Druid is not in a great place imo as a healer and is easily replaced by a soulbeast.

> > >

> > > You would have soulbeast, chrono, harrier fb, bs war, then whatever DPS you want, usually a dragonhunter because break bars are totally busted for burst power specs.

> > >

> > > It's a complete carry comp and does the fractals in your average group much quicker.

> >

> > On EU its way easier to find a harrier renegade and a berserker+pack runes firebrand than the reverse. Trying to force a chrono into that comp lowers its value a lot, you either replace kalla elite and more cc with SoI that you dont need in fractals, or blocks, superior dps and signet share with SoI that you dont need.

> > Might is something a boonchrono doesnt supply at all anymore, however, if bs has to provide all 25 mightstacks then he needs strength runes (yes, we tested this), lowering bs dps quite a bit.

> >

> > Why exactly do you want to force a boonchrono in there? Because of pulls? FB GS5 + Tome1 skill3 work nicely, renegade can help out with axe5, but its not even necessary.

> > Or is it because of skips? Quite a lot skips a weaver can do as well. Or a daredevil. Or a power chrono

> >

> > As for 1-healer pug t4+cms runs this is what we have had best results on:

> > - 1 Harrier renegade

> > - 1 Power Firebrand with Pack Runes

> > - 1 Power Bannerwarrior PS

> > - 2 power DPS

> >

> > Boon remove is an issue, because if you force bannerwarrior to play a tactics spellbreaker build, thats quite a dps loss. However, theres several dps builds that you can run on boon-heavy instability days. Holosmith with mines, daredevil with trickery, power chrono. For "unproblematic" fractals with boons your renegade can just play mallyx instead of ventari. It reduces kalla uptime, but its an easy solution.

>

> On NA the amount of times I have found a support rene in LFG in the past 2 months since I ask for healer and not specifically a druid is : A SINGLE TIME.

>

> It is truly a very niche spec so few people in NA play, I'd rather settle for a Harrier FB since the Harrier FB still serves as a useful healer alongside a chrono for alacrity with stability and aegis spam on top.

>

> Support renegade on its own provides....healing and Kalla (since if you don't find a quickbrand, you'll run a chrono anyways). But I'll take nearly perma stab for Skorvald, Artsariv, and MAMA any day over Kalla elite as it will in most realistic scenarios translate to far more DPS by allowing people to turret those hectic phases without getting pinballed around.

>

> I love my power chrono DPS above all, but if the team doesn't have a guardian of any kind I will always bring mine instead because I cannot stress how vital stability and aegis are for smooth burn phases, and renegade lacks that.

>

> And that's truly the problem, renegade is way more reliant on FB to be attractive to a comp than FB needs renegade to be attractive because guardian utility is crazy stupid.

 

This is so true. Gearing a quickbrand, power or condi is ez af. On power u need maximum 25 bd which is ez to get and on condi u can just slot fb runes and your done. Even in healing a few minstrel/harrier piece is all u need then u can just fill the rest with magi. Fb is also extremely potent in open world, metas, dungeons, soloing stuff giving you more value out of the builds.

 

Renegade on the other hand.....u have to gear a preposterous amount of diviner just for alacrity while already not having the best dps. And it can only be effective with a buddy as alacrity by itself doesnt give much value. Gearing all that just for fractals and nothing else is an investment a lot of people, including myself, arent willing to make.And u would also need healing gear with full concentration if a group wants to run a healer which means even more investment.

Atm out of all the different supports i feel renegade is probably the weakest link as u have to sacrifice too many stats just for alacrity and u require a buddy for quickness + supplementary boons (most of these usually come from fb). For me the worst thing is the energy factor. It just limits the potential of the build as most impacting skills u have require a big amount of energy leaving u very little freedom and versatility.For example Staff 5 is one of the strongest cc's in the game currently but consumes a shitload of energy, yet u are expected to use it in cc bars leaving u with simply simple aa's unless u can change legend. Is it indeed very niche.

[Yasi.9065]

> @"zoomborg.9462" said:

> > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > > @"Yasi.9065" said:

> > > > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > > > Fact is most people don't have support renegades since it's an incredibly niche build even in PvE, so the most realistic scenario is that Harrier FB will replace a druid and alongside the zerker/diviner chrono will have a group with perma quickness, alacrity, stability, and a ton of aegis.

> > > >

> > > > Druid is not in a great place imo as a healer and is easily replaced by a soulbeast.

> > > >

> > > > You would have soulbeast, chrono, harrier fb, bs war, then whatever DPS you want, usually a dragonhunter because break bars are totally busted for burst power specs.

> > > >

> > > > It's a complete carry comp and does the fractals in your average group much quicker.

> > >

> > > On EU its way easier to find a harrier renegade and a berserker+pack runes firebrand than the reverse. Trying to force a chrono into that comp lowers its value a lot, you either replace kalla elite and more cc with SoI that you dont need in fractals, or blocks, superior dps and signet share with SoI that you dont need.

> > > Might is something a boonchrono doesnt supply at all anymore, however, if bs has to provide all 25 mightstacks then he needs strength runes (yes, we tested this), lowering bs dps quite a bit.

> > >

> > > Why exactly do you want to force a boonchrono in there? Because of pulls? FB GS5 + Tome1 skill3 work nicely, renegade can help out with axe5, but its not even necessary.

> > > Or is it because of skips? Quite a lot skips a weaver can do as well. Or a daredevil. Or a power chrono

> > >

> > > As for 1-healer pug t4+cms runs this is what we have had best results on:

> > > - 1 Harrier renegade

> > > - 1 Power Firebrand with Pack Runes

> > > - 1 Power Bannerwarrior PS

> > > - 2 power DPS

> > >

> > > Boon remove is an issue, because if you force bannerwarrior to play a tactics spellbreaker build, thats quite a dps loss. However, theres several dps builds that you can run on boon-heavy instability days. Holosmith with mines, daredevil with trickery, power chrono. For "unproblematic" fractals with boons your renegade can just play mallyx instead of ventari. It reduces kalla uptime, but its an easy solution.

> >

> > On NA the amount of times I have found a support rene in LFG in the past 2 months since I ask for healer and not specifically a druid is : A SINGLE TIME.

> >

> > It is truly a very niche spec so few people in NA play, I'd rather settle for a Harrier FB since the Harrier FB still serves as a useful healer alongside a chrono for alacrity with stability and aegis spam on top.

> >

> > Support renegade on its own provides....healing and Kalla (since if you don't find a quickbrand, you'll run a chrono anyways). But I'll take nearly perma stab for Skorvald, Artsariv, and MAMA any day over Kalla elite as it will in most realistic scenarios translate to far more DPS by allowing people to turret those hectic phases without getting pinballed around.

> >

> > I love my power chrono DPS above all, but if the team doesn't have a guardian of any kind I will always bring mine instead because I cannot stress how vital stability and aegis are for smooth burn phases, and renegade lacks that.

> >

> > And that's truly the problem, renegade is way more reliant on FB to be attractive to a comp than FB needs renegade to be attractive because guardian utility is crazy stupid.

>

> This is so true. Gearing a quickbrand, power or condi is ez af. On power u need maximum 25 bd which is ez to get and on condi u can just slot fb runes and your done. Even in healing a few minstrel/harrier piece is all u need then u can just fill the rest with magi. Fb is also extremely potent in open world, metas, dungeons, soloing stuff giving you more value out of the builds.

>

> Renegade on the other hand.....u have to gear a preposterous amount of diviner just for alacrity while already not having the best dps. And it can only be effective with a buddy as alacrity by itself doesnt give much value. Gearing all that just for fractals and nothing else is an investment a lot of people, including myself, arent willing to make.And u would also need healing gear with full concentration if a group wants to run a healer which means even more investment.

> Atm out of all the different supports i feel renegade is probably the weakest link as u have to sacrifice too many stats just for alacrity and u require a buddy for quickness + supplementary boons (most of these usually come from fb). Is it indeed very niche.

 

I cant fully agree. Yes, the gearing is a bit more difficult and the diviner variant is probably only gonna be meta for comps without heal.

 

But the harrier variant? In fractals you already gain 15% boon duration from the fractal potion conversion (150 AR, fractal mastery max, 5 stacks mobility potion). Add to that a concentration sigil, water runes (you really only need monk runes on rather exotic healing builds without salvation, for example devastation/invocation) and peppermint oil, and you are already at 57% boon duration. For ease of use, Id suggest going for 100%, so 43% left through concentration. Thats roughly trinkets + backpiece + weapons. So you could just go with clerics armor (power stat for elite). --> [build](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQFAmnnNWMTyJvmRNlZzsoytZ4UZ3MIs8bmFNl6PIPymctJmiqodACgGA-jxRXQBi6CAkQlf76BAUPdAOUJ4RU/BA7PQKA/GsB-e)

Thats not unreasonable.

 

The thing about renegade, is that it really brings a lot of dps increase. Theres AP, ofc, which is pretty much on par with EA now. And Kalla Elite. You get about 10-25% kalla elite uptime overall in cms with a harrier renegade. On short burst phases its even more, because there its 100% uptime for the burst.

 

A chrono doesnt offer anything in that regard, it offers "only" additional utility. But what if you dont need that utility? You could force your bs to run tactics spellbreaker, still way more dps than replacing renegade with a alacrity chrono. And I mean, Im always saying "force", but in reality its not actually that bad. You cant really run GS anymore then, but its not as if you have to run special equip for PS. On spellbreaker you loose around what... 5k realistically, the "normal" pug BS probably way less. And everyone has to bring consumables for cc (Pirate's Leg for example). Its not the end of the world, and you gain a lot.

 

> @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> You'll lose less to take SpB than take trickery in thief or a power chrono over an other DPS or mines over bomb or grenade kit.

>

> You'll lose less to NOT take PS war (because it means runes and/or food/sigil) than to take Lasting Legacy over RR if you play harrier Ren with Salvation (because you don't need RR at all with Ventari) in fractals. I don't know how you test you ren but I can assure you you can maintain perma alacrity perma 25 mights, and Soulcleave and the healing skill one when you swap to kalla.

> If you play diviner with Invocation, yes, you can't pass over RR and you can't maintain 25 mights alone, or you sacrifice the perma alacrity for the mights. Still you have FB, may you have weaver, holo to cap the 25.

> Stop Making PS war/SpB a thing, it is NOT needed *edit, in a Ren Healer comp.

 

You are quite wrong there. The radius is the main problem, which is why you want to bring Righteous Rebel even for fractals. On might the radius is also quite small, so you'd have to stack really tight (240) for this to work even remotely. Thats something that doesnt work in fractals, be it due to fight mechanics or instabilities.

 

PS bannerwarrior (core) only has to switch out ONE trait, and bring elite warbanner. You bring Phalanx Strength instead of Powerful Synergy. If you notice might still being a problem due to instabs/mechanics, you can add dumplings et voila. 25 might with 600 radius.

Honestly, why wouldnt you at least run PS trait? And warbanner is free thanks to singularities.

 

I agree that spellbreaker looses around 5k dmg, but theres other solutions for boonremove that dont involve spellbreaker. Domi DT dps chrono is my current favourite. Holo with mines also only looses a bit dps on bosses with short phases. Or you just dont run ventari on renegade and bring mallyx for boss fights.

 

So, no... Im sorry. But PS will definitely become meta. Even if you dont agree, its the best solution for the missing around 15 might.

[zoomborg.9462]

> @"Yasi.9065" said:

> > @"zoomborg.9462" said:

> > > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > > > @"Yasi.9065" said:

> > > > > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > > > > Fact is most people don't have support renegades since it's an incredibly niche build even in PvE, so the most realistic scenario is that Harrier FB will replace a druid and alongside the zerker/diviner chrono will have a group with perma quickness, alacrity, stability, and a ton of aegis.

> > > > >

> > > > > Druid is not in a great place imo as a healer and is easily replaced by a soulbeast.

> > > > >

> > > > > You would have soulbeast, chrono, harrier fb, bs war, then whatever DPS you want, usually a dragonhunter because break bars are totally busted for burst power specs.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's a complete carry comp and does the fractals in your average group much quicker.

> > > >

> > > > On EU its way easier to find a harrier renegade and a berserker+pack runes firebrand than the reverse. Trying to force a chrono into that comp lowers its value a lot, you either replace kalla elite and more cc with SoI that you dont need in fractals, or blocks, superior dps and signet share with SoI that you dont need.

> > > > Might is something a boonchrono doesnt supply at all anymore, however, if bs has to provide all 25 mightstacks then he needs strength runes (yes, we tested this), lowering bs dps quite a bit.

> > > >

> > > > Why exactly do you want to force a boonchrono in there? Because of pulls? FB GS5 + Tome1 skill3 work nicely, renegade can help out with axe5, but its not even necessary.

> > > > Or is it because of skips? Quite a lot skips a weaver can do as well. Or a daredevil. Or a power chrono

> > > >

> > > > As for 1-healer pug t4+cms runs this is what we have had best results on:

> > > > - 1 Harrier renegade

> > > > - 1 Power Firebrand with Pack Runes

> > > > - 1 Power Bannerwarrior PS

> > > > - 2 power DPS

> > > >

> > > > Boon remove is an issue, because if you force bannerwarrior to play a tactics spellbreaker build, thats quite a dps loss. However, theres several dps builds that you can run on boon-heavy instability days. Holosmith with mines, daredevil with trickery, power chrono. For "unproblematic" fractals with boons your renegade can just play mallyx instead of ventari. It reduces kalla uptime, but its an easy solution.

> > >

> > > On NA the amount of times I have found a support rene in LFG in the past 2 months since I ask for healer and not specifically a druid is : A SINGLE TIME.

> > >

> > > It is truly a very niche spec so few people in NA play, I'd rather settle for a Harrier FB since the Harrier FB still serves as a useful healer alongside a chrono for alacrity with stability and aegis spam on top.

> > >

> > > Support renegade on its own provides....healing and Kalla (since if you don't find a quickbrand, you'll run a chrono anyways). But I'll take nearly perma stab for Skorvald, Artsariv, and MAMA any day over Kalla elite as it will in most realistic scenarios translate to far more DPS by allowing people to turret those hectic phases without getting pinballed around.

> > >

> > > I love my power chrono DPS above all, but if the team doesn't have a guardian of any kind I will always bring mine instead because I cannot stress how vital stability and aegis are for smooth burn phases, and renegade lacks that.

> > >

> > > And that's truly the problem, renegade is way more reliant on FB to be attractive to a comp than FB needs renegade to be attractive because guardian utility is crazy stupid.

> >

> > This is so true. Gearing a quickbrand, power or condi is ez af. On power u need maximum 25 bd which is ez to get and on condi u can just slot fb runes and your done. Even in healing a few minstrel/harrier piece is all u need then u can just fill the rest with magi. Fb is also extremely potent in open world, metas, dungeons, soloing stuff giving you more value out of the builds.

> >

> > Renegade on the other hand.....u have to gear a preposterous amount of diviner just for alacrity while already not having the best dps. And it can only be effective with a buddy as alacrity by itself doesnt give much value. Gearing all that just for fractals and nothing else is an investment a lot of people, including myself, arent willing to make.And u would also need healing gear with full concentration if a group wants to run a healer which means even more investment.

> > Atm out of all the different supports i feel renegade is probably the weakest link as u have to sacrifice too many stats just for alacrity and u require a buddy for quickness + supplementary boons (most of these usually come from fb). Is it indeed very niche.

>

> I cant fully agree. Yes, the gearing is a bit more difficult and the diviner variant is probably only gonna be meta for comps without heal.

>

> But the harrier variant? In fractals you already gain 15% boon duration from the fractal potion conversion (150 AR, fractal mastery max, 5 stacks mobility potion). Add to that a concentration sigil, water runes (you really only need monk runes on rather exotic healing builds without salvation, for example devastation/invocation) and peppermint oil, and you are already at 57% boon duration. For ease of use, Id suggest going for 100%, so 43% left through concentration. Thats roughly trinkets + backpiece + weapons. So you could just go with clerics armor (power stat for elite). --> [build](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQFAmnnNWMTyJvmRNlZzsoytZ4UZ3MIs8bmFNl6PIPymctJmiqodACgGA-jxRXQBi6CAkQlf76BAUPdAOUJ4RU/BA7PQKA/GsB-e)

> Thats not unreasonable.

>

> The thing about renegade, is that it really brings a lot of dps increase. Theres AP, ofc, which is pretty much on par with EA now. And Kalla Elite. You get about 10-25% kalla elite uptime overall in cms with a harrier renegade. On short burst phases its even more, because there its 100% uptime for the burst.

>

> A chrono doesnt offer anything in that regard, it offers "only" additional utility. But what if you dont need that utility? You could force your bs to run tactics spellbreaker, still way more dps than replacing renegade with a alacrity chrono. And I mean, Im always saying "force", but in reality its not actually that bad. You cant really run GS anymore then, but its not as if you have to run special equip for PS. On spellbreaker you loose around what... 5k realistically, the "normal" pug BS probably way less. And everyone has to bring consumables for cc (Pirate's Leg for example). Its not the end of the world, and you gain a lot.

>

> > @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> > You'll lose less to take SpB than take trickery in thief or a power chrono over an other DPS or mines over bomb or grenade kit.

> >

> > You'll lose less to NOT take PS war (because it means runes and/or food/sigil) than to take Lasting Legacy over RR if you play harrier Ren with Salvation (because you don't need RR at all with Ventari) in fractals. I don't know how you test you ren but I can assure you you can maintain perma alacrity perma 25 mights, and Soulcleave and the healing skill one when you swap to kalla.

> > If you play diviner with Invocation, yes, you can't pass over RR and you can't maintain 25 mights alone, or you sacrifice the perma alacrity for the mights. Still you have FB, may you have weaver, holo to cap the 25.

> > Stop Making PS war/SpB a thing, it is NOT needed *edit, in a Ren Healer comp.

>

> You are quite wrong there. The radius is the main problem, which is why you want to bring Righteous Rebel even for fractals. On might the radius is also quite small, so you'd have to stack really tight (240) for this to work even remotely. Thats something that doesnt work in fractals, be it due to fight mechanics or instabilities.

>

> PS bannerwarrior (core) only has to switch out ONE trait, and bring elite warbanner. You bring Phalanx Strength instead of Powerful Synergy. If you notice might still being a problem due to instabs/mechanics, you can add dumplings et voila. 25 might with 600 radius.

> Honestly, why wouldnt you at least run PS trait? And warbanner is free thanks to singularities.

>

> I agree that spellbreaker looses around 5k dmg, but theres other solutions for boonremove that dont involve spellbreaker. Domi DT dps chrono is my current favourite. Holo with mines also only looses a bit dps on bosses with short phases. Or you just dont run ventari on renegade and bring mallyx for boss fights.

>

> So, no... Im sorry. But PS will definitely become meta. Even if you dont agree, its the best solution for the missing around 15 might.

 

Im not disagreeing as to the benefits of bringing renegade as atm ren+ fb is the most effective support u can bring in fracs. Im simply arguing about the fact that it isnt as ez to find as fb/chrono and why it is such a niche build. Basically it is great for fractals but in dungeons and metas, open world by itself it doesnt have a big impact, in dungeons alacrity doesnt have much value by itself and in PUG raids it's not ez to accomodate unless the whole setup is tweaked. Hence why a lot of people dont invest in gear for it.

Perhaps if diviner's was less timegated i guess....

[Catchyfx.5768]

> @"zoomborg.9462" said:

> > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > > @"Yasi.9065" said:

> > > > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > > > Fact is most people don't have support renegades since it's an incredibly niche build even in PvE, so the most realistic scenario is that Harrier FB will replace a druid and alongside the zerker/diviner chrono will have a group with perma quickness, alacrity, stability, and a ton of aegis.

> > > >

> Renegade on the other hand.....u have to gear a preposterous amount of diviner just for alacrity while already not having the best dps. And it can only be effective with a buddy as alacrity by itself doesnt give much value. Gearing all that just for fractals and nothing else is an investment a lot of people, including myself, arent willing to make.And u would also need healing gear with full concentration if a group wants to run a healer which means even more investment.

> Atm out of all the different supports i feel renegade is probably the weakest link as u have to sacrifice too many stats just for alacrity and u require a buddy for quickness + supplementary boons (most of these usually come from fb). For me the worst thing is the energy factor. It just limits the potential of the build as most impacting skills u have require a big amount of energy leaving u very little freedom and versatility.For example Staff 5 is one of the strongest cc's in the game currently but consumes a kitten of energy, yet u are expected to use it in cc bars leaving u with simply simple aa's unless u can change legend. Is it indeed very niche.

 

Exactly this...I feel kinda cheated. Invest so much time to gear only for 1 boon uptime. While on Berserker Firebrand I can maintain so much buffs for other teamates if tryharding. IF I had 150 energy then it is OK and you kinda have enough to use F2/F4 1 utility and pop Soulscleave Summit Right now you kinda need to choose half you use and half for next swap. so perma alacrity and 10 might is top what this class can pull out. kinda bad.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

I'm quite wrong, so my ren is broken cheated or something ???

You can't be serious. FB berserker is okai, but F2-F4 on Ren have radius issue ? So was it for chrono too ?? Plus PS is what now ? 4 or 5sec might ? You'll change all runes and sigils to maintain 25 stack ?

You can't build a support-support class in a meta-comp because you can't pack, place properly and you all need someone to rub out your errors.