PvP feedback from a noob (recently bought GW2)

[VoQeles.6789]

To give a little background on how I've been playing - I got 4 level 80s, used boosts for Warrior, Revenant, and then leveled a Ranger + Thief. I decided to make Ranger Soulbeast my main for now, using Longbow and Greatsword with zerker stats. First I used the warrior to PvP, then tried S/D Shortbow Thief, and recently played lot of Ranger in unranked arenas.

 

From my recent experience spamming unranked arenas I made some observations, I don't claim that all of this is factually accurate, it's just my opinion.

 

1. Getting 1 shot by invisible mesmers (and other similar 1 shot bull).

2. Warrior / Mesmer. I've never thought "Oh shit 2 elementalists this is gonna be hard" but when I see 2 mesmers or 3 warriors... "how do you even win against this"

3. Game performance feels bad, GW2 performs worse than any other game. PvP environments should be streamlined for performance.

 

I don't think I'll be PvPing in this game, didn't really enjoy being 1 shot by invisible mesmers. Didn't enjoy fighting Mesmers at all to be honest. I think playing a warrior was more fun because they seem to be effective without being super skilled. Overall one of the worse PvP experiences, maybe I'll goof around with some tank or healer builds to see how they do in PvP but definitely not a game where I would take the PvP seriously.

[Megametzler.5729]

Don't give up so quickly. :smile:

 

While I do agree that the damage in general is too high (on a couple of classes regarding the sustain), you can learn do deal with them. Watch out when they go in stealth, watch for no-port-spots and stuff. They currently are kind of needed to be able to burst down some evenly string bunkers.

 

So it's a balancing issue, same with the other point. We all hope Anet is going to reduce the powercreep.

 

As for GW2's advantages, I find it to be a very active and consistent gameplay. The dodge is quite unique, it is free to play, it has extremely easy access to the PVP environment without leveling or grinding equipment... you don't have to invest all your time, just hop in from time to time and try to have fun. :smile: That's what I do and I am usually having a great time as long as I don't take it too seriously.

 

If you hate those one-shot-builds, you could indeed try to adjust your build. Zerker soulbeast or thief do not have much resistance in particular. And while both are good to learn positioning, map awareness and quick reflexes, I do believe it can get frustrating. Just get yourself another build with more sustain for when you get annoyed by one-shots (warrior, holo, firebrand, boonbeast, ...).

 

I am not sure what you mean with performance though. Technical performance? Then yes, GW2 has some optimization problems indeed. :tongue:

 

 

[Shao.7236]

Upon all the things that Anet has done right, balance is one of the toughest for them it seems. I think they have the greatest business model but this sort of falls short with earlier decisions they had decided to take.

[VoQeles.6789]

I was kind of shocked how little effort it took to delete people with Ranger greatsword maul, it turned into a routine of popping buffs using greatsword 3 (leaping gap closer) into beastmode stun followed by greatsword 2 (maul). Maul would usually just kill outright but if they lived I still had the longbow 2 to finish. Don't get me wrong I did mess around with a mesmer myself but I wasn't very good with it and didn't really like playing it - I can definitely see that this game takes skill etc.

 

Have a good fight against something like ele or thief was fun, when both players can dodge each other and recover from big hits to make a come back. The foundation of the game is great it's just the balance that's out of wack.

 

edit: think I'll try boonbeast and see how that goes, but unless the developers make changes I don't expect I'll play PvP much

[UfoCoffee.2084]

> @"VoQeles.6789" said:

> To give a little background on how I've been playing - I got 4 level 80s, used boosts for Warrior, Revenant, and then leveled a Ranger + Thief. I decided to make Ranger Soulbeast my main for now, using Longbow and Greatsword with zerker stats. First I used the warrior to PvP, then tried S/D Shortbow Thief, and recently played lot of Ranger in unranked arenas.

>

> From my recent experience spamming unranked arenas I made some observations, I don't claim that all of this is factually accurate, it's just my opinion.

>

> 1. Getting 1 shot by invisible mesmers (and other similar 1 shot bull).

> 2. Warrior / Mesmer. I've never thought "Oh kitten 2 elementalists this is gonna be hard" but when I see 2 mesmers or 3 warriors... "how do you even win against this"

> 3. Game performance feels bad, GW2 performs worse than any other game. PvP environments should be streamlined for performance.

>

> I don't think I'll be PvPing in this game, didn't really enjoy being 1 shot by invisible mesmers. Didn't enjoy fighting Mesmers at all to be honest. I think playing a warrior was more fun because they seem to be effective without being super skilled. Overall one of the worse PvP experiences, maybe I'll goof around with some tank or healer builds to see how they do in PvP but definitely not a game where I would take the PvP seriously.

 

You're just another new player turned off by op mesmer. Anet will be too slow to address it whilst we lose players.

 

The same as scourge turned people away and took ages to fix them but the damage was already done.

 

Warrior is annoying if you're fighting them as power. I think the fc nerf was warranted as they do enough damage as it is considering the survivability they have.

 

Funnily enough condi mirage is driving them from ranked as a good mes will destroy a warrior.

 

Also why not try condi mirage? If Anet want to leave it this op just join the sheep and play one. Easy wins and you can get your armour or weapon after the last chest?

[Dami.5046]

Gw1 had the better pvp in my opinion. Unless you were doing Halls, it was quite casual and actually fun. Here people only want to grief you. Don't worry about finding a good build, it will be nerfed before you can say Istan meta.

[saerni.2584]

Work on your kiting skills and play something other than zerker glass. You may also wish to build for some stealth if you want to remain glassy in order to avoid being killed.

 

Stay mobile and ready with active defenses and you will rarely get one shot.

 

Best idea to learn is to duel a good player to get mechanics down. Next is rotations in unranked. Then put that to use in ranked when you feel more comfortable.

 

Ask questions from players and eventually someone will help you. If you are NA I am willing to help. Just let me know.

[Fortus.6175]

I understand your frustration, and like everything, GW2 has a learning curve you must surpass, mostly learning what other classes do. While there seems to be a "general" agreement that indeed fighting mesmers and warriors are rough, while elementalist are more of a meme punch bag for the most part, at the end of the day there will always be classes that are stronger than other, and like most video games; they will take turns (although given the low candence of patches in GW2, these periods can last months, a whole year, or even years at a time).

 

Stick with a profession you find **intrinsically fun**, learn the heck out of it, and stick through everything the game puts you through, eventually you will learn how to handle these classes, or at the very least, how to manage rotations to maximize your strengths vs the opponent's strengths. Balance is a slow thing, specially so in GW2, but we are getting there (minus a few outliers, namely mirage, soulbeast, holo and spellbreaker). Once those outliers are nailed down, new ones will come out, but hopefully the degree of strength difference will be much smaller and surpasable.

 

GW2 has one of the most dynamic combat system in the MMO market, where casting is usually very static, mana a huge limitant to certain classes, the concept of dodge rolling is non-existent (seriously, dodge rolling will spoil you for life, I cant play WoW PvP anymore since I used to play casters a lot and I just feel like a punching bag waiting to be mauled by anything within infinity radius of me).

 

tl:dr stick around, it is worth it despite the poor balance.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

As some one whos heen playing for 6 years, the only thing stopping me from playing is that theres only one game mode 5v5 conquest. I am completely done with 5v5. Give me a 2v2 or a 3v3 system and this game will be my #1 for a long time to come. But for now i havnt touched it in at least a month and i proud of my self for that.

For a new player i dont see this being a problem. As for vetran players it our, well my biggest gripe about gw2.

I can over come the unbalanced nature of gw2, but doing the samw thing 7000+ game of the same game mode has bored me out to no end.

[Amaranthe.3578]

Youre the perfect example of a very weird attitude some people have today. You try to pvp in unranked, clearly made no effort to improve yourself in spvp and this is somehow a problem with the GAME?

Just so you know SoulBeast currently counters the Meta MIrage builds...just be aware that the problem is NOT balance in your case as you have the upper hand against a mesmer from a balance POV.

GW2 pvp, like many other PvP games and especially MMOs can have a bit of a learning curve. It may seem to you like you are getting "unfairly one shotted" or "getting recked by broken classes" but when you actually know what they do and how can YOU stop it things change completely.

PvP is pretty tough to get into because unlike PvE mastering your class is just the first minor step. In PvP you have to be aware of the abilities/skills/builds of all the freaking classes in the game...that takes time and practice.

Mesmers are notorious for being noob-stompers/annoyance for new pvp-players because it really takes a bit to take in the way they do combat and figure out how you are supposed to counter them...until you do it is really challenging.

If nothing else you should take this to heart : nothing will change for you as long as you keep constantly blaming the game for everything. The game should not and will not change to the point its totally effortless. Peace.

[Fortus.6175]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> As some one whos heen playing for 6 years, the only thing stopping me from playing is that theres only one game mode 5v5 conquest. I am completely done with 5v5. Give me a 2v2 or a 3v3 system and this game will be my #1 for a long time to come. But for now i havnt touched it in at least a month and i proud of my self for that.

> For a new player i dont see this being a problem. As for vetran players it our, well my biggest gripe about gw2.

> I can over come the unbalanced nature of gw2, but doing the samw thing 7000+ game of the same game mode has bored me out to no end.

 

Problem with that it is that split the playerbase. Other games struggle with this even with a huge population, their solution has been adding a "brawl" or "arcade" mode that rotates different modes, while having their "main" one as the standard for ranked. Think about it, imagine you queue for ranked and you dont know if you are going to get CTF, or KotH, or 2v2 or 3v3 arena, or the new mode (the one with the doors and the skritt trying to break thmem) they "recently" added whose name escapes me right now... Your build will be vaslty different for each, you will either need to change builds on the spot and get all traits, weapons, runes, sigils correct by memory, assuming you have a fast loading screen and you are very familiar with said different runes/sigils/traits/weapons that the build requires. Or have really fast loading screen and an alt with the build you wish to play, one per each mode.

 

I currently have 3 builds for ele, I have 3 alts for that, each for different map and team composition (and mood) . Without build templates this is a nightmare, my alt spots are taken up by 2 alt eles, 2 alts guardians and 1 alt ranger on top of the "main" characters, thats a lot of character space ($$ and or gold) and hassle (imagine you had the alt parked in lions arch, where you first have to load LA with all the people and other stuff around you before the game automatically redirects you to the PvP map).

 

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

There are logistic issues right now, which could be solved to some extent with build templates, but there are other problems which many other games have still not being able to tackle. I'm fine with KotH as our main mode, I think the stagnicity comes from lack of build diversity, due to *drum rolls* **LACK OF BALANCE**. Every game you fight the same 2-4 mirages, 1-3 soulbeasts, 1-3 holos, 1-4 spellbreakers/reapers/scourage with very little deviation from this, not even within the same elites you see diversity in utilities/weapons/gameplay because the degree of difference in power between these builds and other "subpar" builds is far too great to ignore if you care about having equal chances of fighting back.

 

Look at other games, League of Legends, literally only one map, released in 2009, almost 10 years at this point, **LITERALLY ONLY ONE MAP** since day 1, one of the most popular games out there, why? Every game is different, there are literally million of combination of heroes you go agaisnt and play with (teammates and you), every game is different because even if playing the same heroes over and over again, there is a large variability in builds (what items you buy, what order you buy them, what skills you level first, etc) despite having fewer skills to press. Different genre too so somewhat unfair to compare them but you get my drift.

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**TL:DR** the game feels stagnant because there is little build variability that is viable due to poor balance, not lack of game modes or maps. Other games like LoL only have 1 map and mode and are doing more than fine. Balance the game, more builds available, every game feels fresh(er) since you will not be playing agaisnt the same meta build over and over and over and over and over and over and ov.....

[Eddbopkins.2630]

> @"Fortus.6175" said: alot

 

I garentee if they offer more game modes the pvp population will explode 10x easy of what it is now. Saying it will split the player base to make matters worse is such a nonsensical thought. People are leaving left and right because of outright no development or progression in pvp.

In a 2v2 or 3v3 setting balance wont be that much of an issue as balancing for a 5v5 sitchuation.

 

[Skotlex.7580]

> @"UfoCoffee.2084" said:

> You're just another new player turned off by op mesmer. Anet will be too slow to address it whilst we lose players.

 

This is something which I think quite a few people overlook. I've read several times that "mesmer is not op, you just have to learn go to play against it." There are several posters that are against nerfing "noobstomper" builds, exactly because they are usually one-trick ponies that don't get you beyond gold ranking.

 

However, we must consider the experience of a new player versus these builds: will it cause them to reassess themselves, improve their match for the next time? Or will it just be an exercise in frustration that will eventually make them quit?

 

My guess is that getting owned in less than a second, before one even has a chance to react or defend yourself is a very good way to get players frustrated. And mesmers add another level of annoyance, one where the player doesn't even understands what's going on or what killed them (and, even though that's what a mesmer is supposed to be, it still leaves a sour taste on a new player).

 

Basically, if your first forage into PvP makes one feel like the game is full of unbalanced one-shot kills where they don't get a chance to even hit back, it's more likely that the reaction will be to quit, and not to try harder. This makes for a daunting barrier of entry to the game mode.

[UfoCoffee.2084]

> @"saerni.2584" said:

> Work on your kiting skills and play something other than zerker glass. You may also wish to build for some stealth if you want to remain glassy in order to avoid being killed.

>

> Stay mobile and ready with active defenses and you will rarely get one shot.

>

> Best idea to learn is to duel a good player to get mechanics down. Next is rotations in unranked. Then put that to use in ranked when you feel more comfortable.

>

> Ask questions from players and eventually someone will help you. If you are NA I am willing to help. Just let me know.

 

I'd recommend core guardian for the op. They can burst hard, can kill mesmer and have nice get out of jail abilities to survive longer. They're also pretty easy to pick up and play.

[VoQeles.6789]

> @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> Youre the perfect example of a very weird attitude some people have today. You try to pvp in unranked, clearly made no effort to improve yourself in spvp and this is somehow a problem with the GAME?

> [...]

> If nothing else you should take this to heart : nothing will change for you as long as you keep constantly blaming the game for everything. The game should not and will not change to the point its totally effortless. Peace.

 

lol, every game takes skill, the question is if it's fun or not. I don't really want to bash on the game too much I like it's laid back style... Now adays I'm not looking for tryhard PvP just some casual battleground type thing. I was 2.1k in WoW 3v3, played LoL at plat/diamond level in seasons 3 & 4, I'm also a DFO vet and I like to play Eve / AoE2 on the side. Quake and CS 1.6 were also games I played hardcore a long time ago. If you think that "effort" is some kind of barrier for me then you completely misread everything I posted. I'm not interested in how skillful the game is, I'm looking at it objectively as "is the PvP worth the effort?" and the answer is no.

 

So, sure you can take the stance of "L2P" but what does that really mean? I should invest tons of time into unbalanced pvp to say "look I'm so good at this broken pvp"? No thanks... I still got plenty to do in GW2, but for PvP I'll just play another game... Well I'll probably play a bit but nothing like what I was thinking .. In my mind I thought this game is pretty cool, and it's got PvP so I can work on that longterm without stressing it. But nope, it's a lot of stress.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

> @"Fortus.6175" said:

> **TL:DR** the game feels stagnant because there is little build variability that is viable due to poor balance, not lack of game modes or maps. Other games like LoL only have 1 map and mode and are doing more than fine. Balance the game, more builds available, every game feels fresh(er) since you will not be playing agaisnt the same meta build over and over and over and over and over and over and ov.....

 

This sounds about right. Maybe the underlying issue is that GW2 is primarily a PvE game where exacting balance between classes and builds isn't as crucial as it is in PvP. Anet's been increasingly going the direction of splitting stats between game modes, so they do seem to be addressing this duality. It's inherently difficult to balance such a wide variety of builds so that they are equally viable while making each one actually feel different.

 

> @"Skotlex.7580" said:

> Basically, if your first forage into PvP makes one feel like the game is full of unbalanced one-shot kills where they don't get a chance to even hit back, it's more likely that the reaction will be to quit, and not to try harder. This makes for a daunting barrier of entry to the game mode.

 

One or even two-shotting shouldn't be a thing in sPvP imo. Yes it's usually high risk, high reward, but it just isn't healthy for 5v5 Conquest.

 

> @"UfoCoffee.2084" said:

> I'd recommend core guardian for the op. They can burst hard, can kill mesmer and have nice get out of jail abilities to survive longer. They're also pretty easy to pick up and play.

 

This is a good suggestion. They very much stand up to mesmers.

[Cicada.6298]

wanna really hate pvp? Play an Ele

 

in all seriousness though, as an Ele one-trick (literally the only class I play; only have one main I play on -- the rest are crafting mules), PvP is fun, but frustrating because of how weak the class is. I've played other classes and have a much bigger impact, but I just don't find them as fun, even if I'm winning more.

 

As for Mesmers....well....yeah. They're pretty broken.

 

_If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, I guess._

[incisorr.9502]

> @"Cicada.6298" said:

> As for Mesmers....well....yeah. They're pretty broken.

>

> _If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, I guess._

 

 

yes please do

 

so you can get a reality check and realize how bad mesmer actually is, if you ever get to higher elo that is lmao

[Fortus.6175]

> @"incisorr.9502" said:

> > @"Cicada.6298" said:

> > As for Mesmers....well....yeah. They're pretty broken.

> >

> > _If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, I guess._

>

>

> yes please do

>

> so you can get a reality check and realize how bad mesmer actually is, if you ever get to higher elo that is lmao

 

hmm, dunno man, even in plat 2 all i see is 1-3 mirages in every game, and I wish I was exaggerating here..... together with soulbeast and holo they make the bulk of most games I found throughout the season in plat 1 - 2.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"UfoCoffee.2084" said:

> > @"saerni.2584" said:

> > Work on your kiting skills and play something other than zerker glass. You may also wish to build for some stealth if you want to remain glassy in order to avoid being killed.

> >

> > Stay mobile and ready with active defenses and you will rarely get one shot.

> >

> > Best idea to learn is to duel a good player to get mechanics down. Next is rotations in unranked. Then put that to use in ranked when you feel more comfortable.

> >

> > Ask questions from players and eventually someone will help you. If you are NA I am willing to help. Just let me know.

>

> I'd recommend core guardian for the op. They can burst hard, can kill mesmer and have nice get out of jail abilities to survive longer. They're also pretty easy to pick up and play.

 

Core guard is 100% my defacto noob recommendation build. Not only is it forgiving and easy, but it has the potential to take them all the way to the top 10.

[MiGFiD.1760]

give up now and save yourself the trouble. The only pvp worth playing related to this game is on the PvP forums

[Amaranthe.3578]

> @"VoQeles.6789" said:

> > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > Youre the perfect example of a very weird attitude some people have today. You try to pvp in unranked, clearly made no effort to improve yourself in spvp and this is somehow a problem with the GAME?

> > [...]

> > If nothing else you should take this to heart : nothing will change for you as long as you keep constantly blaming the game for everything. The game should not and will not change to the point its totally effortless. Peace.

>

> lol, every game takes skill, the question is if it's fun or not. I don't really want to bash on the game too much I like it's laid back style... Now adays I'm not looking for tryhard PvP just some casual battleground type thing. I was 2.1k in WoW 3v3, played LoL at plat/diamond level in seasons 3 & 4, I'm also a DFO vet and I like to play Eve / AoE2 on the side. Quake and CS 1.6 were also games I played hardcore a long time ago. If you think that "effort" is some kind of barrier for me then you completely misread everything I posted. I'm not interested in how skillful the game is, I'm looking at it objectively as "is the PvP worth the effort?" and the answer is no.

>

> So, sure you can take the stance of "L2P" but what does that really mean? I should invest tons of time into unbalanced pvp to say "look I'm so good at this broken pvp"? No thanks... I still got plenty to do in GW2, but for PvP I'll just play another game... Well I'll probably play a bit but nothing like what I was thinking .. In my mind I thought this game is pretty cool, and it's got PvP so I can work on that longterm without stressing it. But nope, it's a lot of stress.

 

What does you wow rating mean here? Nothing at all. I was 2.3+ during most of wrath and I still had to learn the game when I moved to GW2 O_o

Btw WoWs pvp is very different and the "wow skill" doesnt carry over to GW2 as much and perhaps that frustrates you? xD

WoWs combat is far more shallow and simplistic than GW2s(played both games for years)

Every MMORPGs pvp is stressful when youre new and you suck. WoWs early pvp is probably the worse of them all. Not only are you getting roflstomped by anyone until you get at least SOME honor/arena gear you cant really start to improve until then because gear is such a strong factor (at least it was when I played, I heard they somewhat changed that later on). The fact that you even dare to bring up wow makes me laugh....WoWs balance has been laughable for the vast majority of its existence when compared to GW2.

It will barely take you any time to understand how to avoid being stomped hilariously and learning the basics of pvp if you actually make an effort to learn.

Your claims of which games you have played in the past and done well in mean nothing. The message you are sending is : "hey Im new and Im getting stomped, cant be bothered to understand how to deal with those few classes that can hit my class very hard. Its the games fault. Too much stress for me. "

I dont mean it in a bad way....L2P or go home.

[Amaranthe.3578]

> @"incisorr.9502" said:

> > @"Cicada.6298" said:

> > As for Mesmers....well....yeah. They're pretty broken.

> >

> > _If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, I guess._

>

>

> yes please do

>

> so you can get a reality check and realize how bad mesmer actually is, if you ever get to higher elo that is lmao

 

How are mesmers bad? They are very good duelers. Sure they arent worth much in a mid-fight while facerolling but they are very strong in a skilled players hands. I do think it will be good for those people to try mesmer though.

[bbop.9706]

> @"VoQeles.6789" said:

> To give a little background on how I've been playing - I got 4 level 80s, used boosts for Warrior, Revenant, and then leveled a Ranger + Thief. I decided to make Ranger Soulbeast my main for now, using Longbow and Greatsword with zerker stats. First I used the warrior to PvP, then tried S/D Shortbow Thief, and recently played lot of Ranger in unranked arenas.

>

> From my recent experience spamming unranked arenas I made some observations, I don't claim that all of this is factually accurate, it's just my opinion.

>

> 1. Getting 1 shot by invisible mesmers (and other similar 1 shot bull).

> 2. Warrior / Mesmer. I've never thought "Oh kitten 2 elementalists this is gonna be hard" but when I see 2 mesmers or 3 warriors... "how do you even win against this"

> 3. Game performance feels bad, GW2 performs worse than any other game. PvP environments should be streamlined for performance.

>

> I don't think I'll be PvPing in this game, didn't really enjoy being 1 shot by invisible mesmers. Didn't enjoy fighting Mesmers at all to be honest. I think playing a warrior was more fun because they seem to be effective without being super skilled. Overall one of the worse PvP experiences, maybe I'll goof around with some tank or healer builds to see how they do in PvP but definitely not a game where I would take the PvP seriously.

 

Unranked in no way gives you a realistic idea of the true pvp experience in GW2.

 

Your experience will be very different when you play with experienced and knowledgeable players who understand and can multiclass a variety of roles, switch according to comp, know how to counter builds and how to rotate, use and abuse terrain as well as be mechanically effective by having instinctive muscle memory of your keybindings etc...

 

Then and only then will you be able to give a true assessment of gw2 pvp.

 

It will take months of practice and plat level play before you get there so dont give up too soon!

[Brendan.1309]

@"VoQeles.6789" I started playing in November, PvP was initially difficult for me but it got easier and only more fun as I've learned new professions.

My main is Ranger but I've also picked up Thief, Mesmer, and Engineer, doing really well in ranked arena even on my alts so far.

 

Whats helped me the most is to assume you don't know what you're doing because you probably don't.

When you're getting the feel for the game as a whole and a profession go to this site https://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki and pick out a very defensive build.

If you really want to be a high damage player take it slow, shed off defensive utilities and add harder hitting ones as you go. You cant learn anything when you're on respawn.

 

 

There's lots of guides out there and you should check them out for your profession but specifically for conquest these have helped me out a ton

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/66016/top-5-tricks-to-climb-ranks-doctors-hate-him#latest

 

On another note, if you are having trouble in any particular matchup, go to their profession forums and don't cry about how they suck, ask for help.

You'll generally be met with people willing to make you better and especially if you choose to create that profession and learn the ends and outs of it.

 

GLHF