so why no player to player trading?

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"MetalGirl.2370" said:

> Scammers can easily be avoided imo.

> In GW1 and many other games you have to hover over the item in order to be able to accept trade, so surely you'd look carefully what you're accepting.

> So I don't see the problem.

 

and yet scams still happened.

[mauried.5608]

A simple compromise solution to the p2p trading problem is simply to add the COD option to the mail system , with a 15% tax on the value of the items being sent.

To stop scammers using such a system , the 15% tax could be made up of a 5% sending fee payable by the sender, and the remainder payable by the receiver.

This way , the system closely follows the TP , and Anet doesnt lose any money.

If people dont want the items sent to them , they simply return them to the sender, and incur no cost.

 

 

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"mauried.5608" said:

> A simple compromise solution to the p2p trading problem is simply to add the COD option to the mail system , with a 15% tax on the value of the items being sent.

> To stop scammers using such a system , the 15% tax could be made up of a 5% sending fee payable by the sender, and the remainder payable by the receiver.

> This way , the system closely follows the TP , and Anet doesnt lose any money.

> If people dont want the items sent to them , they simply return them to the sender, and incur no cost.

What would be the point, then? Because i don't see any _positive_ impact of using direct trading system over TP. And by positive i don't mean "positive to one of the players doing the trade" but "positive to the community at large".

 

 

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"mauried.5608" said:

> A simple compromise solution to the p2p trading problem

Except it's not a 'problem' that needs a solution. A minority of players would love to see a P2P tool in the game. The cost is substantial, since it requires adding mechanics & UI that aren't already part of the game. It's a niche feature request, not something that the community needs to buy & sell goods.

Because, again, anyone who wants to trade with another player can already do so.

[Linken.6345]

> @"mauried.5608" said:

> A simple compromise solution to the p2p trading problem is simply to add the COD option to the mail system , with a 15% tax on the value of the items being sent.

> To stop scammers using such a system , the 15% tax could be made up of a 5% sending fee payable by the sender, and the remainder payable by the receiver.

> This way , the system closely follows the TP , and Anet doesnt lose any money.

> If people dont want the items sent to them , they simply return them to the sender, and incur no cost.

>

>

 

And after awhile we will see a influx to forum and support of -This guy said s/he would buy this from me.

I paid the send fee and s/he returned it refund please.

[MetalGirl.2370]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"MetalGirl.2370" said:

> > Scammers can easily be avoided imo.

> > In GW1 and many other games you have to hover over the item in order to be able to accept trade, so surely you'd look carefully what you're accepting.

> > So I don't see the problem.

>

> and yet scams still happened.

 

Then that's on people and the fact that they just hover over fast, not pay attention and just click fast. So in that case that's completely their fault and they should learn not to do it that way, simple.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"MetalGirl.2370" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"MetalGirl.2370" said:

> > > Scammers can easily be avoided imo.

> > > In GW1 and many other games you have to hover over the item in order to be able to accept trade, so surely you'd look carefully what you're accepting.

> > > So I don't see the problem.

> >

> > and yet scams still happened.

>

> Then that's on people and the fact that they just hover over fast, not pay attention and just click fast. So in that case that's completely their fault and they should learn not to do it that way, simple.

 

I never said it wasn't their fault. I said it allowed scams.

 

Maybe Arenanet does not want even the possibility of people experiencing such issues?

 

No need to learn something if Arenanet protects their player base, which as mentioned by Gaile earlier was part of the reasoning behind the TP.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

what that 15% tax is used for is what I want to know. I bet evon gnashblade uses it to fuel his gambling addiction.

[Diak Atoli.2085]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> what that 15% tax is used for is what I want to know. I bet evon gnashblade uses it to fuel his gambling addiction.

 

You didn't know? He uses it to maintain his monopoly on all trading in Tyria.

[Rauderi.8706]

> @"Diak Atoli.2085" said:

> You didn't know? He uses it to maintain his monopoly on all trading in Tyria.

 

I'm still waiting for the Consortium to become relevant.

 

Secondary marketplace to trade in currencies and unload those unwanted Black Lion buffs and freebies? YES PLEASE.

[mauried.5608]

If under the current system, someone sends me a mail which says send me 1 gold and Ill send you a legendary weapon, and I send the 1G and dont get the legendary weapon, can I complain to Anet to get my 1G back?

 

[Yargesh.4965]

> @"mauried.5608" said:

> If under the current system, someone sends me a mail which says send me 1 gold and Ill send you a legendary weapon, and I send the 1G and dont get the legendary weapon, can I complain to Anet to get my 1G back?

>

You can complain to Anet, you will not get your 1 gold back.

 

[LucianDK.8615]

You folks are crazy if you think returning the trade spam loaded lions arch is a good thing. Kamadan was named Spamadan for a reason. TP works just fine.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Yargesh.4965" said:

> > @"mauried.5608" said:

> > If under the current system, someone sends me a mail which says send me 1 gold and Ill send you a legendary weapon, and I send the 1G and dont get the legendary weapon, can I complain to Anet to get my 1G back?

> >

> You can complain to Anet, you will not get your 1 gold back.

This. The player in question can get banned for this, because cheating is a bannable offense. You however won't get your 1g back (nor will you get the legendary, obviously).

 

[Kraggy.4169]

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> While it's true we're talking about a video game with fake money that fake money can kill a video game. I've played MMOs with runaway inflation where new people just leave because they can't ever earn enough to even gear their characters. Don't make any mistake about it, MMOs run on their economies. You want to see a game die, kill it's economy. The game will soon follow.

 

Me too, for example FFXI over the infamous 2005 Christmas holiday period (for those who also suffered) .. and I disagree with you that new players are incapable of making currency, mine was able to to just fine .. a broken economy is broken from both 'sides' in the transaction, high prices per se are irrelevant particularly as 'new players' need very little from the trading system as they'll get all the gear they need simply be leveling up however any particular game implements it.

 

[Nasbit.3240]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Pirindolo.9427" said:

> > Scam? What Scam?

> >

> > Player A opens a trade window with player B

> > Player A drops the item / Money he is going to trade, from inventory to trade window

> > Player B drops the item / money he is going to trade, from inventory to trade window

> > Player A and B , after inspection of both items, click "confirm trade" or "cancel trade"

> >

> > Only if 2 confirm trade are clicked, the pending trade is released. Otherwise, it's canceled.

> It's exactly like it worked in GW1. Somehow, the scams still were an everyday occurence.

>

> > @"Nasbit.3240" said:

> > Used / modified items are autom. soulbound by the game. There are almost no items that are worth trading that looks like scap. And gw2 has much better tooltips/naming - so its not like it was in gw1.

> > In Gw2 you instant see if someone give you 10g or 10s - so what possible scam from gw1 could happen samewise in gw2?

> Very simple one - the one where the seller/buyer takes advantage of the other party not knowing the price of the item. Which is actually the most common type, far more common than the examples mentioned in the thread before. And it's more insidious, because the people that profit off it usually don't even consider it to be a scam.

 

So everyone who is selling chak or confetti for 10k to TP is scammed by anet, cause of not knowing its true value of almost 20k?

[Etria.3642]

Just heard of someone selling one on the grey market who got scammed. Not sure of the particulars, just haven't seen the player since they excitedly put it on to prove to those of us there that it actually dropped. (And btw, I liked it more than I thought I would)

 

So I guess it would be nice to have the cap raised on the tp. Or hey, the drop rate could be raised just a smidge so that 10k would be a fair price! Oo, say, I like that idea.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Etria.3642" said:

> Just heard of someone selling one on the grey market who got scammed. Not sure of the particulars, just haven't seen the player since they excitedly put it on to prove to those of us there that it actually dropped. (And btw, I liked it more than I thought I would)

>

> So I guess it would be nice to have the cap raised on the tp. Or hey, the drop rate could be raised just a smidge so that 10k would be a fair price! Oo, say, I like that idea.

 

So either dident use a middleman or the greymarket is down a middleman?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> You folks are crazy if you think returning the trade spam loaded lions arch is a good thing. Kamadan was named Spamadan for a reason. TP works just fine.

 

i'll restate the obvious. separate trade chat channel just like in gw1. non issue.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Etria.3642" said:

> Just heard of someone selling one on the grey market who got scammed.

Of course that happens, as there are no protections. There are some people who have done 100s of trades without an issue and others who haven't managed one. That's the huge risk involved in trading off-market.

 

The subreddit for grey market trading offers middlemen; not everyone chooses to pay the modest fees. There are ways to reduce the risk, but it can't be eliminated entirely. That's why ANet won't refund coin or items lost due to P2P trading. And it's why some people choose to forgo potentially large amounts of coin by sticking to the protected trading environment of the TP.

 

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > You folks are crazy if you think returning the trade spam loaded lions arch is a good thing. Kamadan was named Spamadan for a reason. TP works just fine.

>

> i'll restate the obvious. separate trade chat channel just like in gw1. non issue.

 

Right, because sellers used the trade channel, leaving the general channel free. Oh, wait, not what happened. Many would repeat their ads in both in order to reach people who had one or the other turned off.

 

Sure, ANet could also create a report category for trade spam in the "wrong" channel. At that point P2P trading would be providing _convenience_ to those wanting to bypass the TP without using a 3rd party site. The cost would be _inconvenience_ for those whose choice is now report/block or endure the spam. Any system in an online setting that can be abused will be abused.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > You folks are crazy if you think returning the trade spam loaded lions arch is a good thing. Kamadan was named Spamadan for a reason. TP works just fine.

>

> i'll restate the obvious. separate trade chat channel just like in gw1. non issue.

 

Non-issue? It wasn't called Spamadan because everyone stuck to the Trade channel.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Nasbit.3240" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said:

> > > Scam? What Scam?

> > >

> > > Player A opens a trade window with player B

> > > Player A drops the item / Money he is going to trade, from inventory to trade window

> > > Player B drops the item / money he is going to trade, from inventory to trade window

> > > Player A and B , after inspection of both items, click "confirm trade" or "cancel trade"

> > >

> > > Only if 2 confirm trade are clicked, the pending trade is released. Otherwise, it's canceled.

> > It's exactly like it worked in GW1. Somehow, the scams still were an everyday occurence.

> >

> > > @"Nasbit.3240" said:

> > > Used / modified items are autom. soulbound by the game. There are almost no items that are worth trading that looks like scap. And gw2 has much better tooltips/naming - so its not like it was in gw1.

> > > In Gw2 you instant see if someone give you 10g or 10s - so what possible scam from gw1 could happen samewise in gw2?

> > Very simple one - the one where the seller/buyer takes advantage of the other party not knowing the price of the item. Which is actually the most common type, far more common than the examples mentioned in the thread before. And it's more insidious, because the people that profit off it usually don't even consider it to be a scam.

>

> So everyone who is selling chak or confetti for 10k to TP is scammed by anet, cause of not knowing its true value of almost 20k?

Are they selling it to anet? No? Then you have your answer.

(also, chak and confetti do not have big enough droprate for a stable price, so they do suffer from huge price differences and easy price manipulation by a small number of people, making them a really bad example)

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > > You folks are crazy if you think returning the trade spam loaded lions arch is a good thing. Kamadan was named Spamadan for a reason. TP works just fine.

> >

> > i'll restate the obvious. separate trade chat channel just like in gw1. non issue.

>

> Non-issue? It wasn't called Spamadan because everyone stuck to the Trade channel.

 

I guess I wasn't around when that was happening but most of the time back when gw1 was more populated I didn't notice a ton of ppl abusing map chat.

[Rajani Isa.6294]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> In short: We saw the risks and the costs to players in Player-to-Player deals gone bad. They existed in Guild Wars; they existed in many other games.

>

> The development of the Trading Post was given a lot of thought and careful planning. The objective was to develop a system that allowed players to conduct transactions in a safe and secure manner.

>

> Personal opinion: I wouldn't want us to go back. I've read the heart-wrenching appeals from scammed players and betrayed friends and guildies. I've seen the occasional gloat from someone who took advantage of others. Both convince me the TP is a very good, player-friendly system that benefits us all.

 

I think the trading post is pretty great. Only real improvement I could see at this moment would be to allow us (even if not reimbursed) to lower the sell prices on items after we post, in case the price takes a sudden dive.