Should Rezzing/Downstate get nerfed?

[subversiontwo.7501]

Wasn't there a topic exactly like this one last week?

 

Are the answers to whatever placeholder question not the same?

 

Yes, some aspects of ressurrection can be be discussed: Rally and the recent creep of %res type skills (banners, elixirs, signets, transfusions etc.).

 

Overall however, downstate as a mechanic is integral to the game- and mode. It creates alot of positive opportunities for gameplay that are fun.

[X T D.6458]

> @"subversiontwo.7501" said:

> Wasn't there a topic exactly like this one last week?

>

> Are the answers to whatever placeholder question not the same?

>

> Yes, some aspects of ressurrection can be be discussed: Rally and the recent creep of %res type skills (banners, elixirs, signets, transfusions etc.).

>

> Overall however, downstate as a mechanic is integral to the game- and mode. It creates alot of positive opportunities for gameplay that are fun.

 

The topic is not about removing downstate, its about the balance regarding downstate and resurrecting allies in combat.

[subversiontwo.7501]

Yes, and ressurrecting people is fine overall while you are still spamming the topic with this thread :p .

[X T D.6458]

> @"subversiontwo.7501" said:

> Yes, and ressurrecting people is fine overall while you are still spamming the topic with this thread :p .

 

What spam?

[subversiontwo.7501]

Nevermind, I see that this is actually the same thread that got pushed up to the top again. My apologies.

 

My points still stand though. I'm not talking about just the downstate, I'm talking about resurrection. Read my post again.

[X T D.6458]

> @"subversiontwo.7501" said:

> Nevermind, I see that this is actually the same thread that got pushed up to the top again. My apologies.

>

> My points still stand though. I'm not talking about just the downstate, I'm talking about resurrection. Read my post again.

 

No problem.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > > I would add to remove all downed state skills lol. they really aren't needed.

> > > Yes, they really are. Imagine how boring 1v1 fights would be when both go down. You're just gonna lie there for 30 secs contemplating how the kitten you ended up there. As long as that situation is possible - which it will always be due to condition damage existing - we need some way to do... something. It not like downed skills matter much in zerging anyway. Some can be strong true, but they are part of a class fighting mechanics and you should adapt to that. Even downing someone shouldnt just be "lawl I won".

> >

> > hmm what if just the auto attack and heal were there then? 90% of the time the other skills do nothing other then stall the stomp/kill for another 3 secs.

> Well thats just *boring* isnt it?

>

> Also all additional downed skills has use in smallscale, to the point they can be reason you're ressed by an ally before the enemy stomp. They matter **alot** and add much deeper combat than just stabbing your foe to death. Stuns, stealth, fears, teleports, etc. The more outmanned you are, the more skill and tactics you need. It doesnt matter much for 1v1 or 50v50 though , but just because it doesnt matter then that crowd doesnt really need to care about it.

 

they will occasionally save you but whats "much deeper" about a traited 4 sec necro fear or teef teleport? they are stall tactics that can kill the stomper. being penalized or worrying about downed skills and saving cds for them to me doesn't translate into better gameplay, its just tedious and annoying.

[Israel.7056]

I think at the very least they should remove rally. Then we can go from there.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > > > I would add to remove all downed state skills lol. they really aren't needed.

> > > > Yes, they really are. Imagine how boring 1v1 fights would be when both go down. You're just gonna lie there for 30 secs contemplating how the kitten you ended up there. As long as that situation is possible - which it will always be due to condition damage existing - we need some way to do... something. It not like downed skills matter much in zerging anyway. Some can be strong true, but they are part of a class fighting mechanics and you should adapt to that. Even downing someone shouldnt just be "lawl I won".

> > >

> > > hmm what if just the auto attack and heal were there then? 90% of the time the other skills do nothing other then stall the stomp/kill for another 3 secs.

> > Well thats just *boring* isnt it?

> >

> > Also all additional downed skills has use in smallscale, to the point they can be reason you're ressed by an ally before the enemy stomp. They matter **alot** and add much deeper combat than just stabbing your foe to death. Stuns, stealth, fears, teleports, etc. The more outmanned you are, the more skill and tactics you need. It doesnt matter much for 1v1 or 50v50 though , but just because it doesnt matter then that crowd doesnt really need to care about it.

>

> they will occasionally save you but whats "much deeper" about a traited 4 sec necro fear or teef teleport? they are stall tactics that can kill the stomper. being penalized or worrying about downed skills and saving cds for them to me doesn't translate into better gameplay, its just tedious and annoying.

I did say deeper, not "better". The later is a personal opinion.

 

To me this is the same as arguing that the game would be better without having to worry about stability. I think it would. Just remove all CC and boom done. Better, faster combat - I mean who *isnt* annoyed when getting totally locked down?

 

But doing so, you would make combat much shallower.

[Kylden Ar.3724]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> I would love res back to how to it performed in gw1, or at least some hybrid system.

>

>

 

So everyone can waste a utility slot on it?

[Jski.6180]

Keep in mind class hp effects down state hp so ele has the lowest down state hp in the game.

 

Skill that rez ppl what needs to be nerfed badly. Being able to rez ppl in one button push with in less then a sec is game braking for wvw and makes an already over used class all the more important.

[Straegen.2938]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> Keep in mind class hp effects down state hp so ele has the lowest down state hp in the game.

 

Does it matter when they can mist into a door or back into the zerg? Down state skills are horribly imbalanced.

[Straegen.2938]

My quick fixes:

* One downstate every 2 min or so with half health restored when being brought back up

* No downstate skills and everyone gets the same HP and such when down

* No rally allowing new/casual players to be welcomed back into the herd

* Quickness impacts stomp speed again

 

It is fair, allows multiple methods for counter play and doesn't punish certain classes in group play or newer players.

[Kovu.7560]

If the goal of downstate is to delay a stomp or being cleaved out, the professions punished the most are those that don't have the ability to _move_ while in downstate as anyone who's a sitting duck is basically automatically killed by being blinded or stomped by someone with stability (or cleaved more quickly). With that in mind ele > thief > mesmer > everyone else. Not allowing Vapor Form to pass through portals into towers or keeps would be a _start_ -- eles get away with so many dumb antics because they know they can blow themselves back to safety.

 

~ Kovu

 

edit- That said, with the exception of elementalists that vapor into towers the onus is on you or your team to _finish_ the person who's downed. On the whole they can't do much to stop it.

[Jski.6180]

> @"Straegen.2938" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > Keep in mind class hp effects down state hp so ele has the lowest down state hp in the game.

>

> Does it matter when they can mist into a door or back into the zerg? Down state skills are horribly imbalanced.

 

Its not an invariability you can be cc in it with unblockables. The down state being tide to class hp is imbalanced as ele can simply just die before they can trigger any down state effect where necro can stop there own life from falling with out attking from passive effects.

 

Being able to reaz ppl with skills from down state of any level IS the real problem in wvw and what makes any fight in wvw last forever.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> Being able to reaz ppl with skills from down state of any level IS the real problem in wvw and what makes any fight in wvw last forever.

Uhm, last forever? The days of standoff condi pirateshipping is long gone, zerging today is mostly about 10-30s of manouvering and then a push that either win or loose the fight. And in smallscale, people complain about getting instakilled.

 

[L A T I O N.8923]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> > @"Straegen.2938" said:

> > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > Keep in mind class hp effects down state hp so ele has the lowest down state hp in the game.

> >

> > Does it matter when they can mist into a door or back into the zerg? Down state skills are horribly imbalanced.

>

> Its not an invariability you can be cc in it with unblockables. The down state being tide to class hp is imbalanced as ele can simply just die before they can trigger any down state effect where necro can stop there own life from falling with out attking from passive effects.

>

> Being able to reaz ppl with skills from down state of any level IS the real problem in wvw and what makes any fight in wvw last forever.

 

First of all

If you play war, longbow ranger, anything on thief, or Reaper

You probably capable of downing An 'full glass ele' within 4 hits

The default skill of ele on downstate hits like you lash with a wet noodle (while others like war and nec can stack up really good) and now people wanna see that one skill nerved?

 

Still the ele can be a bit overtuned, when you realise you can't be down in a golem, so if an ele mistforms into it (while Being down) he'll rally

A pet rez underwater is still a bit overtuned, running decent damage on your armor fixes IT

 

I think you gotta look to the whole package here And mostly its Just fine, some undertuned, some overtuned

[crepuscular.9047]

get rid off down state, PvP too

[KeyOrion.9506]

You want to take away my lick wounds? And engineers being able to shrink and turn invulnerable and then commit coup de grace? I have to use Stability...and Invulnerability BEFORE I use coup de grace...just to kill every other profession. Some of you hit one skill and I got no way to get back up in time at all. Keep Downed state as is. Sometimes it works for you, and sometimes it works against you.

[Jski.6180]

> @"L A T I O N.8923" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > @"Straegen.2938" said:

> > > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > > Keep in mind class hp effects down state hp so ele has the lowest down state hp in the game.

> > >

> > > Does it matter when they can mist into a door or back into the zerg? Down state skills are horribly imbalanced.

> >

> > Its not an invariability you can be cc in it with unblockables. The down state being tide to class hp is imbalanced as ele can simply just die before they can trigger any down state effect where necro can stop there own life from falling with out attking from passive effects.

> >

> > Being able to reaz ppl with skills from down state of any level IS the real problem in wvw and what makes any fight in wvw last forever.

>

> First of all

> If you play war, longbow ranger, anything on thief, or Reaper

> You probably capable of downing An 'full glass ele' within 4 hits

> The default skill of ele on downstate hits like you lash with a wet noodle (while others like war and nec can stack up really good) and now people wanna see that one skill nerved?

>

> Still the ele can be a bit overtuned, when you realise you can't be down in a golem, so if an ele mistforms into it (while Being down) he'll rally

> A pet rez underwater is still a bit overtuned, running decent damage on your armor fixes IT

>

> I think you gotta look to the whole package here And mostly its Just fine, some undertuned, some overtuned

 

Rangers have the take 0 dmg with having the ability to go glass at the same time and yet your calling ele "overtuned" because of the ability to move for a few sec in down state. What story we tell our self.

[L A T I O N.8923]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> > @"L A T I O N.8923" said:

> > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > > @"Straegen.2938" said:

> > > > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > > > Keep in mind class hp effects down state hp so ele has the lowest down state hp in the game.

> > > >

> > > > Does it matter when they can mist into a door or back into the zerg? Down state skills are horribly imbalanced.

> > >

> > > Its not an invariability you can be cc in it with unblockables. The down state being tide to class hp is imbalanced as ele can simply just die before they can trigger any down state effect where necro can stop there own life from falling with out attking from passive effects.

> > >

> > > Being able to reaz ppl with skills from down state of any level IS the real problem in wvw and what makes any fight in wvw last forever.

> >

> > First of all

> > If you play war, longbow ranger, anything on thief, or Reaper

> > You probably capable of downing An 'full glass ele' within 4 hits

> > The default skill of ele on downstate hits like you lash with a wet noodle (while others like war and nec can stack up really good) and now people wanna see that one skill nerved?

> >

> > Still the ele can be a bit overtuned, when you realise you can't be down in a golem, so if an ele mistforms into it (while Being down) he'll rally

> > A pet rez underwater is still a bit overtuned, running decent damage on your armor fixes IT

> >

> > I think you gotta look to the whole package here And mostly its Just fine, some undertuned, some overtuned

>

> Rangers have the take 0 dmg with having the ability to go glass at the same time and yet your calling ele "overtuned" because of the ability to move for a few sec in down state. What story we tell our self.

 

Im pointing out the downstate skills

You know...this topic is about downstate...

[Trinnitty.8256]

Character health points:

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Health

 

Level 80 Base HP

Warrior, Necromancer

19,212

Revenant, Engineer, Ranger, Mesmer

15,922

Guardian, Thief, Elementalist

11,645

 

[XenesisII.1540]

I think down state skills should have just been the same for every class, I don't think it was necessary to come up with theme skills for this area.

1. Aattack that helps your res bar a little.

2. Aoe damage move.

3. CC skill whether that's a knock back or knock down.

4. Press to res faster than attack.

Same hitpoints when in down state.

 

And the reasoning that it was done with themes because some classes are weaker and prone to die faster than others is 7 year old balancing logic when the game has changed so much since then, with elite specs and so many stat combinations, there's no way that aspect should be balanced to what the overall strength was perceived to be back then. Also I've seen near unkillable ele and druid builds lately. If you're built as glass you can expect to die fast if you make the wrong move, but the same class has access to tank builds and yet still get the same downed skills as the glass version.

 

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> And the reasoning that it was done with themes because some classes are weaker and prone to die faster than others is 7 year old balancing logic

No, its still **MMORPG** balancing logic even after expansions.

 

People seem to be constantly forgetting that GW2 is actually supposed to contain both the MMO and the RPG parts of the word. It got classes. They are different. Its not a shooter where everyone has the same hp and every weapon type does similar damage. That would be an incredibly boring RPG. We dont need to homogenize everything or delete stuff just because people still havent learned the simple truth of WvW - if you cant kill your enemy, call for reinforcements. Thats why its a great MMO.

[Straegen.2938]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> People seem to be constantly forgetting that GW2 is actually supposed to contain both the MMO and the RPG parts of the word. It got classes. They are different. Its not a shooter where everyone has the same hp and every weapon type does similar damage. That would be an incredibly boring RPG. We dont need to homogenize everything or delete stuff just because people still havent learned the simple truth of WvW - if you cant kill your enemy, call for reinforcements. Thats why its a great MMO.

 

There is nothing RPG about the downstate skills. It is a wonky mechanic and much like underwater fighting it has never been really evaluated and updated. It is a dead system the devs leave in place because it is unimportant for update in PvE. I suspect the reason they haven't removed the system in competition is due to developers not wanting to overhaul the related downstate skills/traits since downstate is a fine mechanic in PvE.