(Spoiler) A question related to story mission The Departing

[JayMack.8295]

Also (and someone with more lore knowledge will have to help me here) are we so sure he couldn't just pluck our spirit from the beyond after he dealt with Kralk? Even if we had moved on, accepted our death and not come back to life, does our spirit HAVE to be in the Domain of the Lost for Balthazar to come find us? Obviously we don't know where our spirit would end up if we'd moved on (or if we'd even remain a spirit, I guess?) but if Balth wanted us that badly, it's a possibility that he could (with even more power than he already had) travel into the mists and come looking for us at any time.

 

Sure, if he knows we're in the Domain of the Lost we're easier to find, but he can probably make an educated guess where The Judge would send us after spending so much time with the current and previous God of death, right?

 

Regardless, I think you put the commander's value to Balth above what we are. He considered us a worthy, but inconsequential foe as far as I can see it. He knows we're powerful, we've killed Elder Dragons before, sure - but I don't think he cares about us THAT much to go looking for us, especially when he has an Elder Dragon to deal with and the means to deal with it.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @JayMack.8295 said:

> Also (and someone with more lore knowledge will have to help me here) are we so sure he couldn't just pluck our spirit from the beyond after he dealt with Kralk? Even if we had moved on, accepted our death and not come back to life, does our spirit HAVE to be in the Domain of the Lost for Balthazar to come find us? Obviously we don't know where our spirit would end up if we'd moved on (or if we'd even remain a spirit, I guess?) but if Balth wanted us that badly, it's a possibility that he could (with even more power than he already had) travel into the mists and come looking for us at any time.

 

Given that he first used his Eternals in the Fissure of Woe for his Forged, and also has access to the Realm of Torment via the Mouth of Torment I would say that a good portion of places he has access to in one manner or another.

[PseudoNewb.5468]

Is it clear, how the Commander's resurrection worked? I'm not too familiar with it in GW1 since I didn't play it. But it seems like the commander's soul is returned to the seemingly intact body where it fell, and the body is restored in some way so that the commander can wake up as though they took no injuries in the first place. It seems strange to me that Balthazar wouldn't have rendered the commander's body to ash or applied any other kind of more significant bodily destruction, to ensure death. I don't know if that would matter in GW resurrection lore or if it would have made it harder to restore the commander's body. But, Balthazar seems powerful enough at the time to have done that, and with all the craziness about the mists and magic and stuff it seems like it would be a reasonable thing to do to make it very absolutely sure someone is dead.

[Dondarrion.2748]

> @Thalador.4218 said:

> - The Judge: "When **Balthazar left**, a fearsome beast, the Eater of Souls, rose to prey on the waning life energy of the spirits here."

>

> And actually, Balthaddon doesn't even need to go back to the Domain of the Lost to claim the spirits he and his send there:

>

> - The Judge: "Balthazar has done great harm here. **The magic he uses to hijack spirits** shakes the foundations of the Domain of the Lost."

>

> His magic lingers there, snatching the souls away before they could reclaim their names and purpose, and forces them back to Tyria where they get cast into the Forged bodies.

>

> All the "martyrs" (as the Forged call them) slaughtered by Balthaddon and his forces wind up here. He clearly knows this; he kills indiscriminately and brutally to ensure the trauma they suffer in their last moments results in loss of self and purpose. He knew where the Commander would appear in the afterlife, and he had his magic active in the Domain to claim the soul and make the Commander his mindless servant.

 

There is ambiguity about how things proceed when Balthazar kills these martyrs though; it doesn't seem like Balthazar's lingering/corrupting magic in the Domain of the Lost is able to hijack the traumatized Lost Spirits immediately upon arrival in the DotL; but rather those that eventually reclaim their name to seek a way forward as they have to face the Eater of Souls, to which most probably succumb and thus get claimed to become Forged?

 

Balthazar has to rely on the work of the Eater of Souls; and possibly he was led there by Palawa Joko and managed to leave but is unable to re-enter in person?

 

And a question from me; Domain of the Lost, this is the first time we hear of it, right? It's still part of the Underworld; just a temporary transit on the way to a particular location there?

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

> @Dondarrion.2748 said:

> > @Thalador.4218 said:

> > - The Judge: "When **Balthazar left**, a fearsome beast, the Eater of Souls, rose to prey on the waning life energy of the spirits here."

> >

> > And actually, Balthaddon doesn't even need to go back to the Domain of the Lost to claim the spirits he and his send there:

> >

> > - The Judge: "Balthazar has done great harm here. **The magic he uses to hijack spirits** shakes the foundations of the Domain of the Lost."

> >

> > His magic lingers there, snatching the souls away before they could reclaim their names and purpose, and forces them back to Tyria where they get cast into the Forged bodies.

> >

> > All the "martyrs" (as the Forged call them) slaughtered by Balthaddon and his forces wind up here. He clearly knows this; he kills indiscriminately and brutally to ensure the trauma they suffer in their last moments results in loss of self and purpose. He knew where the Commander would appear in the afterlife, and he had his magic active in the Domain to claim the soul and make the Commander his mindless servant.

>

> There is ambiguity about how things proceed when Balthazar kills these martyrs though; it doesn't seem like Balthazar's lingering/corrupting magic in the Domain of the Lost is able to hijack the traumatized Lost Spirits immediately upon arrival in the DotL; but rather those that eventually reclaim their name to seek a way forward as they have to face the Eater of Souls, to which most probably succumb and thus get claimed to become Forged?

>

> Balthazar has to rely on the work of the Eater of Souls; and possibly he was led there by Palawa Joko and managed to leave but is unable to re-enter in person?

>

> And a question from me; Domain of the Lost, this is the first time we hear of it, right? It's still part of the Underworld; just a temporary transit on the way to a particular location there?

 

Unless I missed something, the Eater of Souls doesn't have any connection to Balthazar or the Forged. If it did, the souls would've been moved on into Forged bodies, instead of waiting to be released when we killed the thing. From what the Judge said, it was just a scavenger taking advantage of the state of disarray the realm was left in.

 

Nor did the Eater prey only on those with a name- according to the ghosts scattered about the place, it just strikes more or less at random. Anyone who _does_ reclaim a name and a purpose can be sent on at any time by making it to the Judge and accepting his, well, judgment.

 

And yes, this is the first time we've heard of the Domain. It's strikingly similar to [another place](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Forgotten_Vale) that was part of the GW1 Underworld, but that was a permanent afterlife for confused souls. The quest log makes the Domain sound like it's separate from the Underworld proper but still under Grenth's rule, and the Judge can send souls to afterlives outside the Underworld if they merit it, as he does with our guide, who gets moved along to Kormir's Sanctum.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Not that similar. The Forgotten Vale wasn't for souls who forgot who they were, but for those [devoted to Grenth](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Escort_of_Souls) who [did not realize they died](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Reaper_of_the_Forgotten_Vale). They still had their identity, like [sarah](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Sarah) and the others at the entrance to the Underworld. In contrast, those devoted to Grenth but knew they died went to [the Ice Wastes](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Reaper_of_the_Ice_Wastes).The Domain of the Lost seems like a place who forget who they are, rather than just not realizing they died.

[Dondarrion.2748]

> @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said:

> Unless I missed something, the Eater of Souls doesn't have any connection to Balthazar or the Forged. If it did, the souls would've been moved on into Forged bodies, instead of waiting to be released when we killed the thing. From what the Judge said, it was just a scavenger taking advantage of the state of disarray the realm was left in.

> Nor did the Eater prey only on those with a name- according to the ghosts scattered about the place, it just strikes more or less at random. Anyone who _does_ reclaim a name and a purpose can be sent on at any time by making it to the Judge and accepting his, well, judgment.

 

Well, it doesn't say clearly, The Judge only says it rose after Balthazar left and then that Balthazar's magic has shaken the DotL's foundations... so I made a connection in error; because it seemed like that was the way Balthazar managed to consume the souls from the Domain of the Lost and pass them back to "life" recast as Forged? Then I wonder exactly how they get hijacked, because I didn't see any other threats to the Lost Spirits in the Domain other than the Eater of Souls; they just seemed to wander around struggling to claim their name & purpose so they could see the Judge and move on to where they should be going.

 

> And yes, this is the first time we've heard of the Domain. It's strikingly similar to [another place](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Forgotten_Vale) that was part of the GW1 Underworld, but that was a permanent afterlife for confused souls. The quest log makes the Domain sound like it's separate from the Underworld proper but still under Grenth's rule, and the Judge can send souls to afterlives outside the Underworld if they merit it, as he does with our guide, who gets moved along to Kormir's Sanctum.

 

Yes, I saw the Forgotten Vale but it didn't quite match the type of souls it contained; nor since it's a permanent stop. It would have been interesting if we could look over the edge of the Domain of the Lost and just about catch a glimpse of the Underworld far below; i.e. being in a holding area on a plateau far above where judgment needed to pass before being sent permanently to the Underworld or elsewhere.

[Fjaeldmark.9043]

Just a thought I had, not sure if it's already been suggested since I haven't exhaustively read the thread. Balthazar's herald shows some free will as she dies. It's possible that the process of creating forged does not completely remove free will but only suppresses it. It might be possible for an individual with a strong will to resist it, similar to Mordremoth and the sylvai. If that is the case, had Balthazar tried to turn the commander into a forged he might have just brought back (and possibly empowered) the commander to try and kill him again. Why risk it when he already had what he needed?

[Westenev.5289]

I wonder if it's possible the "Exalted" we met was either reprogrammed or had a Trojan planted to hijack his mind. It seems really suspicious that he was the only one left - and that Joko and Balthazaar allowed for him to escape. It seems more likely that he was left there for a purpose.

 

From there, I imagine travel would be trivial matter for a God of War.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

> @Westenev.5289 said:

> I wonder if it's possible the "Exalted" we met was either reprogrammed or had a Trojan planted to hijack his mind. It seems really suspicious that he was the only one left - and that Joko and Balthazaar allowed for him to escape. It seems more likely that he was left there for a purpose.

>

> From there, I imagine travel would be trivial matter for a God of War.

He states he hid in that side room while Joko and Balthazar killed/forged everyone else.

 

[Westenev.5289]

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @Westenev.5289 said:

> > I wonder if it's possible the "Exalted" we met was either reprogrammed or had a Trojan planted to hijack his mind. It seems really suspicious that he was the only one left - and that Joko and Balthazaar allowed for him to escape. It seems more likely that he was left there for a purpose.

> >

> > From there, I imagine travel would be trivial matter for a God of War.

> He states he hid in that side room while Joko and Balthazar killed/forged everyone else.

>

 

He would, if he were working for the enemy.

[Aeon.4583]

I belive this thread will be the best place for this... But is there any devs comments about this Shining Blade Oath? Death experience that Commander went through do provide some degree of immunity to Scarab Plague ('Stench of the Lost on you.' - 'You're an unbefitting host.')

 

Did it somehow effect this Oath aswell? Did Commander become free of it?

Commander knows just a little of Shining Blade secrets, there is nothing to speak of. And also i don't like that Commander will be having a restrictions in his\her movements =)

[Rognik.2579]

> @"Aeon.4583" said:

> I belive this thread will be the best place for this... But is there any devs comments about this Shining Blade Oath? Death experience that Commander went through do provide some degree of immunity to Scarab Plague ('Stench of the Lost on you.' - 'You're an unbefitting host.')

>

> Did it somehow effect this Oath aswell? Did Commander become free of it?

> Commander knows just a little of Shining Blade secrets, there is nothing to speak of. And also i don't like that Commander will be having a restrictions in his\her movements =)

 

This isn't the first time this theory has come up. While there hasn't been any official word from the devs, the general consensus is that the Oath will cause death, rather than it being a bond _until_ death.

[Ruadan.9301]

The bond will never, ever, ever, be relevant again in the story. If the Commander as a character did not mind it being cast on him, it means he will simply never talk about the Shining Blade secrets again and probably does not care in the slightest about it either. After all, he took the entire weird and hardcore initiation ritual in his stride, basically.

 

I am, however, talking about their newer, more cohesive way of building the story and the commander (post PS). I would not say that Malyck is irrelevant just because the Commander never commented on his returning with an army.

 

I just think that the oath is just this one-off gimmicky thing that is paid way too much attention to. The Shining Blade are, in general, pretty irrelevant to the Commander and he is leagues above them in terms of the battles he fights and the problems he has to care about. I don't get why you get the impression the weight of this oath is impeding him or dragging him down. It's one thing he isn't supposed to talk about, but it's literally so unlikely that he ever will talk about it again, that said oath might just as well have been child's play.

 

I have to say, however, the fact that we'll most certainly never hear about this oath again, makes the fact that they introduced it in the first place, even more unnecessary. Someone up there just wanted to show how cool and tough and serious of an inside club the SB are. ;)

 

I /do/ like their headquarters, though. Really cool hideout beneath the city.

[Castigator.3470]

You know, from a systems standpoint, the oath seems to be fulfilled on death, considering it is the punishment for breaking the oath and also the sign that the oath has been fulfilled.

(The condition that keeps the oath's curse in place.)

>! `//Badly implemented binding, but it gets the point across!`

>! `int addShiningBinding(Struct Commander* commi){`

>! ` while(commi->is_alive == true){`

>! ` if(commi->sb_secret_kept == false){`

>! ` die();`

>! ` }`

>! ` }`

>! `return 0;`

>! `}`

>! `/*Based on the Idea that a spell cannot have infinite duration without external source, it must feed from the commander's magic. When he dies, his magic is unbound, so the curse dissipates.*/`

I doubt that even the Shining Blade would force the oath to last beyond death. And even if they wanted to, they may need an external power source to bind the curse aspect of that oath to all present and past members of their order.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Castigator.3470" said:

> I doubt that even the Shining Blade would force the oath to last beyond death. And even if they wanted to, they may need an external power source to bind the curse aspect of that oath to all present and past members of their order.

 

Keep in mind that the one who made the Oath was Livia, who lived in a time of resurrection. It would be too easily circumvented if a captured Shining Blade Exemplar was killed, resurrected, then interrogated.

 

And there **was** an external power source. The Oath of Confidence spell was bound to The Shining Blade weapon, a powerful magical artifact created by the last Seer, the same species that knew how to create the Bloodstone and infuse spectral essence into objects.