Trading Post Suggestions

[BBF geNko.3097]

Hello, I just wanted to make this post in hopes that the game devs might read this. I am ging to keep this as brief as possible and to the point.

 

I have listed a fair number of things on the trading post in my 6 years of playing GW2. Some sold quickly some didn't. One thing that has always bugged me a little is that there is no option to simply just adjust your price on an item. You can list an item that cost you 200 Gold to list and spend 3 months watching people list their own of the same item and undercut yours, sometimes rendering your item undesired, per say. If I list something on Gumtree or Craigslist or even a vehicle on carsales.com and said item sits there for so many days, weeks or even months without any interest, then you have the option to drop the price of said item to make it more desirable. I feel as though, for any sell/buy system, the ability to change the price at any given time is crucial some times to being able to sell something. I have a strong belief in this and in GW2's case, the trading post is set up in such a way that to make a change to the price of your item, you have to unlist it and lose your initial listing fee, then re-list it and pay the listing fee a second time, for the same damn item. So either of two things should by right happen; One, make the listing fee REFUNDABLE! So we can relist our items without paying listing fee twice. Or two, give us a price adjusting mechanic for our items, again so we don't have to pay a double listing fee.

 

I strongly believe this to be completely reasonable and I am sure it frustrates others and not just myself. I completely agree with a listing fee and an exchange fee and I am fine with that and I love GW2, it is a fantastic game and I have no complaints elsewhere. This is just the one thing that has been bugging me.

 

Thank you for reading. Also if you also feel the same way as a GW2 player and would agree to having either of these two options implemented, please comment below saying so.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Perhaps it's the way it is because the non-refundable listing fee serves as a deterrent. If people could list items for exorbitant prices, they could effectively store items and gold indefinitely at no cost. This could impact the desirability of bank tabs and extra bags. Players will take advantage of in-game systems if given the opportunity.

[mauried.5608]

The TP is not a normal sell/buy system , in that all the items that are being listed are identical to the same items listed by other players, so that price is the only form of differentiation between items.

The TP is also a competitive selling system to encourage players to price their items at realistic prices so that they will sell quickly, and that's why the listing fee exists and why its not refundable.

Otherwise players can simply list items at ridiculous high prices knowing they wont sell, and use the TP as a free storage system.

Undercutting or whatever you want to call it , is simply the system working as intended.

 

 

[Cyninja.2954]

Both previous posters are correct.

 

The listing fee of 5% ensures that sellers are incentivised to reduce their selling price (or not overcharge) or risk loss. This is by design.

 

There is a 100% sure way of having your items sell:

It's called selling to highest buy order.

 

> @"BBF geNko.3097" said:

> I strongly believe this to be completely reasonable and I am sure it frustrates others and not just myself. I completely agree with a listing fee and an exchange fee and I am fine with that and I love GW2, it is a fantastic game and I have no complaints elsewhere. This is just the one thing that has been bugging me.

>

 

Sorry, but here is a 0% chance of having the listing fees removed. The benefit to the market is just to great.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"BBF geNko.3097" said:

> One thing that has always bugged me a little is that there is no option to simply just adjust your price on an item.

That's deliberate for a couple of reasons:

* It prevents using the TP as free storage (you could list e.g. silk scrap for 1000g each, which would never sell, and store as much as you like)

* It makes sellers think twice about what price they choose to list at. Without a fee, people would try for as high as possible first, and only lower gradually, if it didn't sell. This puts pressure on prices to rise generally.

 

> I completely agree with a listing fee

I'm confused how "completely agree" can be consistent with getting a refund or not having to pay for each time one lists an item.

 

> You can list an item that cost you 200 Gold to list and spend 3 months watching people list their own of the same item and undercut yours, sometimes rendering your item undesired, per say

That can't happen if you accepted one of the existing buy offers. The fact that you (like many of us) choose not to means you're hankering to make more money, and that comes with the risk that your item might take longer to sell or won't sell at all. Essentially: the market is telling you that your asking price was too high. ANet wants there to be a tangible cost, to discourage people from asking too much. (That helps bring the market to a lower equilibrium more quickly.)

 

tl;dr ANet's unlikely to change their mind; system is working as intended.

 

 

[phs.6089]

The only thing I don't understand in TP is why I pay 5% listing fee if I sell item on order. I don't list it, I sell for offered price.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> The only thing I don't understand in TP is why I pay 5% listing fee if I sell item on order. I don't list it, I sell for offered price.

 

We don't sell to the offered price. We list it and the order fulfills instantly, since there's an existing offer.

There are some decent reasons to set it up like that, primarily that it's more fair (every seller pays the same 5%) and it avoids the perverse incentive in which instant-sells generate more profit. For example, suppose there was an item with a buy offer at 100 gold and a sell listing at 120g. If I first listed at 101.0101 gold, I'd get only 85g and change (assuming someone accepted my listing). If you sold at 100g (direct to the offer) without a few, you'd get 90g.

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"phs.6089" said:

> > The only thing I don't understand in TP is why I pay 5% listing fee if I sell item on order. I don't list it, I sell for offered price.

>

> We don't sell to the offered price. We list it and the order fulfills instantly, since there's an existing offer.

> There are some decent reasons to set it up like that, primarily that it's more fair (every seller pays the same 5%) and it avoids the perverse incentive in which instant-sells generate more profit. For example, suppose there was an item with a buy offer at 100 gold and a sell listing at 120g. If I first listed at 101.0101 gold, I'd get only 85g and change (assuming someone accepted my listing). If you sold at 100g (direct to the offer) without a few, you'd get 90g.

 

What I would like is for the listing fee to, be taken out of the earnings when selling to buy order so I don't have to have the liquid gold for it before selling. I doubt such a change is "worth it" for ANet, but I still hope :p

[Biff.5312]

In addition to the previous, if you could change your price, would they then be expected to reduce your listing fee and refund part of it? I'm not sure how the system functions, but I can imagine that having a listing fee 'on file' while the price itself fluctuates could be a problem.

[Danikat.8537]

I always assumed part of the reason for the listing fee was to prevent exactly this situation - so you don't get 2 or more sellers crashing the price on an item because they happen to be watching it at the same time and keep relisting over and over trying to 'beat' each other. That's still possible of course but the fee acts as a deterrent and encourages sellers to choose a price and stick with it, at least for a little while.

 

Combined with the other effect of discouraging absurdly high listings which will probably never sell it helps to keep prices relatively stable, with fluctuations usually caused by actual changes in availability or demand instead of people gaming the system.

[BBF geNko.3097]

All very valid points/arguments that I didn't think of myself. Thanks for the insight guys, really eases my mind about the whole thing. I guess I just need to be patient!

[BBF geNko.3097]

> @"Biff.5312" said:

> In addition to the previous, if you could change your price, would they then be expected to reduce your listing fee and refund part of it? I'm not sure how the system functions, but I can imagine that having a listing fee 'on file' while the price itself fluctuates could be a problem.

 

No if that was a possibility I think what ever your initial listing fee was should just be that .

[Skotlex.7580]

> @"BBF geNko.3097" said:

> All very valid points/arguments that I didn't think of myself. Thanks for the insight guys, really eases my mind about the whole thing. I guess I just need to be patient!

 

Since I am neither greedy nor carefree, I always list my items at lowest offering price, and every few months I clean up all orders older than a month and relist them at the new offer price. It works pretty well for me.

[Orion Templar.4589]

> @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said:

> What I would like is for the listing fee to, be taken out of the earnings when selling to buy order so I don't have to have the liquid gold for it before selling. I doubt such a change is "worth it" for ANet, but I still hope :p

 

They need to keep the listing fee, even if you sell to a buy order. I see what you're saying about the seller needing to have the liquid gold up front though which may be a problem when wanting to sell an expensive item. One thing the developers might consider is the option when selling to a buy order, to have the listing fee come out of your revenue from the sale rather than from your wallet when making the sale. Either way it's the same profit and tax for you, just different the order it is applied in.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Orion Templar.4589" said:

> Either way it's the same profit and tax for you, just different the order it is applied in.

 

True, but either method almost dictates a different behavior which is why I'd guess that Anet has it set up the way it is now.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Orion Templar.4589" said:

> > Either way it's the same profit and tax for you, just different the order it is applied in.

>

> True, but either method almost dictates a different behavior which is why I'd guess that Anet has it set up the way it is now.

 

Yes, that's exactly why ANet isn't likely to change the order. They want us to think carefully about the price we list at, and reduce the temptation to price too high or too low.

 

 

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

Some practical advice for those end up being lucky enough to find a high-priced item they want to sell on the TP, without enough coin to pay the listing fee to sell it:

 

* Post in the [Players Helping Players subforum](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/categories/players-helping-players). People will offer specific advice on pricing and on how to generate enough coin for the listing fee.

* Look in your material storage. Chances are there's more value there than you think, enough to pay the listing fees. Use [GW2 Efficiency](http://gw2efficiency.com/) (or similar sites) to help find out where.

* If you're a veteran, check with your friends, guildies, and acquaintances. Chances are there is someone that is willing to loan you the listing fee. (With or without collateral.)

* The [GW2 Exchange subreddit](https://old.reddit.com/r/GW2Exchange/) moderators will act as middleman for trades in the gray market (outside the TP and its fees). This is a higher risk because it requires you to trust strangers with valuables (and it's unsupported by ANet), so it's not appropriate for everyone.

 

You can also PM me here or in game, if you don't want to go public. (So few people take me up on that offer that I have time to help those who do.)

[Kunzaito.8169]

The one potential way this could work is if there were a way to change the listing price for an additional fee, (i.e. no refunds at all, but you can change the list price to be competitive if you pony up some additional gold). The fee could either be fixed, or some percentage of the difference in listing price, or some combo of the two (a floor price plus a scalar), and would therefore allow you to "relist" at something less than the full 5% as now. It would be a way to put more movement on higher ticket items; whether that would be good overall, who knows.

 

The biggest barrier to doing this is probably the Trading Post itself, which has performance issues as it is and a very cludgy UI. If anything over the years they've made it simpler and removed options (e.g. RIP "Add to Lowest Listing" feature). I can't see them integrating something as potentially confusing as this into it.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Kunzaito.8169" said:

> The one potential way this could work is if there were a way to change the listing price for an additional fee, (i.e. no refunds at all, but you can change the list price to be competitive if you pony up some additional gold). The fee could either be fixed, or some percentage of the difference in listing price, or some combo of the two (a floor price plus a scalar), and would therefore allow you to "relist" at something less than the full 5% as now. It would be a way to put more movement on higher ticket items; whether that would be good overall, who knows.

>

> The biggest barrier to doing this is probably the Trading Post itself, which has performance issues as it is and a very cludgy UI. If anything over the years they've made it simpler and removed options (e.g. RIP "Add to Lowest Listing" feature). I can't see them integrating something as potentially confusing as this into it.

 

Why would ANet want to make this change? Let's say it won't affect the performance and that it won't be challenging to implement. It still undermines the reason they set things up like this in the first place: they don't want us to change the asking price; they want us to think carefully before making the choice in the first place. Reducing that cost works against that. The 5% is meant to discourage us from asking too much in the first place.

[Kunzaito.8169]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> Why would ANet want to make this change? Let's say it won't affect the performance and that it won't be challenging to implement. It still undermines the reason they set things up like this in the first place: they don't want us to change the asking price; they want us to think carefully before making the choice in the first place. Reducing that cost works against that. The 5% is meant to discourage us from asking too much in the first place.

 

I don't think they *do* want to make this change, but I don't think it's for a reason as complicated as that. One glance at the trading post shows that a whole heckuvalot of people don't put much thought into how they sell, or take some big risks. Upfront gold is hardly the limiter it used to be. Arguably this method could be a positive to the velocity of the economy or at least a net 0 by putting items that frankly, would never sell back into circulation and removing a bit more gold from someone who, as of now, is content to let those items just sit there forever rather than pay relisting.

 

The 5% listing was designed to, and is effective at, curbing a lot of the ways of abusing the TP. I don't think allowing a discounted price change option negates that at all. But I do think that the simplicity of the system (5% on list, 10% on sale, end of story, no matter what) is intentional based on the limitations of the technology and lack of any real need or will to make it more complicated. It's interesting as a thought exercise what else they might do but I agree we won't see it, for any number of reasons.

 

 

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

I feel if your item hasnt sold in say 3months they should automatically send it back to you with the gold spent for listing. And also if you decide to sell out right you shouldnt be charge a listing fee, because basically you did not list it.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:

> I feel if your item hasnt sold in say 3months they should automatically send it back to you with the gold spent for listing. And also if you decide to sell out right you shouldnt be charge a listing fee, because basically you did not list it.

 

The first part might be interesting for recuperating otherwise lost materials on the TP, but might cause a lot of mailing issues and hassle. There is people with hundreds of thousand of gold in value items on the TP at all times. I doubt they would want items returned involuntarily.

 

The second part was ansered by IWN further up:

 

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"phs.6089" said:

> > The only thing I don't understand in TP is why I pay 5% listing fee if I sell item on order. I don't list it, I sell for offered price.

>

> We don't sell to the offered price. We list it and the order fulfills instantly, since there's an existing offer.

> There are some decent reasons to set it up like that, primarily that it's more fair (every seller pays the same 5%) and it avoids the perverse incentive in which instant-sells generate more profit. For example, suppose there was an item with a buy offer at 100 gold and a sell listing at 120g. If I first listed at 101.0101 gold, I'd get only 85g and change (assuming someone accepted my listing). If you sold at 100g (direct to the offer) without a few, you'd get 90g.

 

on top of which there is no incentive for Arenanet to reduce the listing fee in the first place. It is one of the major contributors in removal of gold from the game.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

i think it would be cool if you could relist your item(s) after say 1 month for no cost. you still cant get your gold back by removing it altogether.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> i think it would be cool if you could relist your item(s) after say 1 month for no cost. you still cant get your gold back by removing it altogether.

 

Cool for us? Absolutely. Cool for speculators? Even more so. Good for the game as a whole? ANet isn't likely to agree...for all the reasons stated above.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > i think it would be cool if you could relist your item(s) after say 1 month for no cost. you still cant get your gold back by removing it altogether.

>

> Cool for us? Absolutely. Cool for speculators? Even more so. Good for the game as a whole? ANet isn't likely to agree...for all the reasons stated above.

 

I don't get the first thing about not being able to use the tp as free storage. cant ppl already do this? as for the second one, what if only one free repost every month was allowed, does that seem like a decent middle ground?