yoni.7015 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Mounts are PoF content so if he wants a mount he should buy PoF. Very simple. There is no need for a core mount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einlanzer.1627 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 > @"PookieDaWombat.6209" said: > > @"Einlanzer.1627" said: > > > @"PookieDaWombat.6209" said: > > > > @"phs.6089" said: > > > > > @"PookieDaWombat.6209" said: > > > > > > @"ShiningSquirrel.3751" said: > > > > > > So I have been helping a friend get in to the game. He has the core game so far (Heroic edition not FTP) and like it. There is one issue that has come up however that is souring him on the game and is very frustrating for him. He has leveled enough that he can now do dailies, however it is extremely hard to complete some of them due to not having a mount and competing with players who do. Example, when an event completer daily comes up and he attempts to do it, other players will helpfully post the location for the event or it will show on the map. By the time he runs to that location, the event is over because everyone with a mount got there much faster and completed it. I did explain that he will get mounts eventually but you know how some people "want it now". So I was thinking, would it be that bad to give new players a "default" mount? No special abilities other then movement speed. It could also be a source of revenue by selling skins as well? Any thoughts? I have been thinking about just buying him a waypoint unlock package but that kind of spoils the fun of exploring. Any other suggestions/thoughts? > > > > > > > > > > This is done by design to force non-PoF people to buy PoF. Anet has known this would be an issue because it was said a bunch before they were introduced to core Tyria. It then took them ages to reduce the engage damage from mounts on lower level maps. The whole idea is frustrate those new players enough that they feel they need a mount to compete and then they buy the game. Unfortunately it will also push some away from the game, but chances are those numbers are lower than those that will just buy PoF. > > > > > > > > > > Until then, your friend can try to learn where there are chain events on given maps then camp those until they happen so he doesn't have to worry about out running a mount to get to it. > > > > > > > > Yeah we all understand the point of buying PoF. > > > > What would a free core mount do? It's like giving a bit of ice-cream in a hot day and showing the way where one can buy whole bunch of ice-creams. > > > > > > > > > > I removes the urgency to get the expansion for mounts, and since you get your first basic mount right out of the gates with said expansion it doesn't make any financial sense to cut into your own bottom line like that. Its simple economics especially for a company facing down decreased numbers financially. > > > > No, this is a very flawed way of looking at it. People will buy PoF because they like the game, not **just** because they want a mount, so doing things to make the game more enjoyable for new players is the correct way to incentivize purchasing expansions. Providing a core mount is a way to do this while also giving a taste of what's to come in PoF. > > they give people a taste during holiday events. Giving a free mount to core game players doesn't give them the urgency to ever get the proper mounts from PoF and the longer they don't get into that story to unlock the mounts the longer Anet goes without the reported income. Many that go into PoF for the starter mount want to then stay to unlock the skills and then get the other mounts as well. A starter core mount removes all of that. I simply don't agree with this at all. People who are initially interested in mounts will still want PoF for the exclusive mounts it offers regardless of whether or not they have a "starter mount". People who are not initially interested in mounts will likely have their interest in PoF's mounts increased by having a starter mount, not decreased. This is especially true as the starter mount would presumably be slower and wouldn't offer the same utility as the PoF mounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehenna.3625 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 > @"ShiningSquirrel.3751" said: > I did explain that he will get mounts eventually but you know how some people "want it now". "I want it now" is not a valid argument. It's better he learns that in life you don't get everything now. Your friend just needs to grow up a little. That's not something this game needs to solve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terter.4125 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 > @"Einlanzer.1627" said: > > @"PookieDaWombat.6209" said: > > > @"Einlanzer.1627" said: > > > > @"PookieDaWombat.6209" said: > > > > > @"phs.6089" said: > > > > > > @"PookieDaWombat.6209" said: > > > > > > > @"ShiningSquirrel.3751" said: > > > > > > > So I have been helping a friend get in to the game. He has the core game so far (Heroic edition not FTP) and like it. There is one issue that has come up however that is souring him on the game and is very frustrating for him. He has leveled enough that he can now do dailies, however it is extremely hard to complete some of them due to not having a mount and competing with players who do. Example, when an event completer daily comes up and he attempts to do it, other players will helpfully post the location for the event or it will show on the map. By the time he runs to that location, the event is over because everyone with a mount got there much faster and completed it. I did explain that he will get mounts eventually but you know how some people "want it now". So I was thinking, would it be that bad to give new players a "default" mount? No special abilities other then movement speed. It could also be a source of revenue by selling skins as well? Any thoughts? I have been thinking about just buying him a waypoint unlock package but that kind of spoils the fun of exploring. Any other suggestions/thoughts? > > > > > > > > > > > > This is done by design to force non-PoF people to buy PoF. Anet has known this would be an issue because it was said a bunch before they were introduced to core Tyria. It then took them ages to reduce the engage damage from mounts on lower level maps. The whole idea is frustrate those new players enough that they feel they need a mount to compete and then they buy the game. Unfortunately it will also push some away from the game, but chances are those numbers are lower than those that will just buy PoF. > > > > > > > > > > > > Until then, your friend can try to learn where there are chain events on given maps then camp those until they happen so he doesn't have to worry about out running a mount to get to it. > > > > > > > > > > Yeah we all understand the point of buying PoF. > > > > > What would a free core mount do? It's like giving a bit of ice-cream in a hot day and showing the way where one can buy whole bunch of ice-creams. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I removes the urgency to get the expansion for mounts, and since you get your first basic mount right out of the gates with said expansion it doesn't make any financial sense to cut into your own bottom line like that. Its simple economics especially for a company facing down decreased numbers financially. > > > > > > No, this is a very flawed way of looking at it. People will buy PoF because they like the game, not **just** because they want a mount, so doing things to make the game more enjoyable for new players is the correct way to incentivize purchasing expansions. Providing a core mount is a way to do this while also giving a taste of what's to come in PoF. > > > > they give people a taste during holiday events. Giving a free mount to core game players doesn't give them the urgency to ever get the proper mounts from PoF and the longer they don't get into that story to unlock the mounts the longer Anet goes without the reported income. Many that go into PoF for the starter mount want to then stay to unlock the skills and then get the other mounts as well. A starter core mount removes all of that. > > I simply don't agree with this at all. People who are initially interested in mounts will still want PoF for the exclusive mounts it offers regardless of whether or not they have a "starter mount". People who are not initially interested in mounts will likely have their interest in PoF's mounts increased by having a starter mount, not decreased. This is especially true as the starter mount would presumably be slower and wouldn't offer the same utility as the PoF mounts. Here are some wonderful cool looking core mounts all of core members can enjoy ATM. https://imgur.com/S2aS8T6 https://imgur.com/C50pLPD https://imgur.com/nJjRu36 Anything faster than that can be obtained trough buying PoF expan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 > @"Gopaka.7839" said: > > @"Einlanzer.1627" said: > > > @"PookieDaWombat.6209" said: > > > > @"phs.6089" said: > > > > > @"PookieDaWombat.6209" said: > > > > > > @"ShiningSquirrel.3751" said: > > > > > > So I have been helping a friend get in to the game. He has the core game so far (Heroic edition not FTP) and like it. There is one issue that has come up however that is souring him on the game and is very frustrating for him. He has leveled enough that he can now do dailies, however it is extremely hard to complete some of them due to not having a mount and competing with players who do. Example, when an event completer daily comes up and he attempts to do it, other players will helpfully post the location for the event or it will show on the map. By the time he runs to that location, the event is over because everyone with a mount got there much faster and completed it. I did explain that he will get mounts eventually but you know how some people "want it now". So I was thinking, would it be that bad to give new players a "default" mount? No special abilities other then movement speed. It could also be a source of revenue by selling skins as well? Any thoughts? I have been thinking about just buying him a waypoint unlock package but that kind of spoils the fun of exploring. Any other suggestions/thoughts? > > > > > > > > > > This is done by design to force non-PoF people to buy PoF. Anet has known this would be an issue because it was said a bunch before they were introduced to core Tyria. It then took them ages to reduce the engage damage from mounts on lower level maps. The whole idea is frustrate those new players enough that they feel they need a mount to compete and then they buy the game. Unfortunately it will also push some away from the game, but chances are those numbers are lower than those that will just buy PoF. > > > > > > > > > > Until then, your friend can try to learn where there are chain events on given maps then camp those until they happen so he doesn't have to worry about out running a mount to get to it. > > > > > > > > Yeah we all understand the point of buying PoF. > > > > What would a free core mount do? It's like giving a bit of ice-cream in a hot day and showing the way where one can buy whole bunch of ice-creams. > > > > > > > > > > I removes the urgency to get the expansion for mounts, and since you get your first basic mount right out of the gates with said expansion it doesn't make any financial sense to cut into your own bottom line like that. Its simple economics especially for a company facing down decreased numbers financially. > > > > No, this is a very flawed way of looking at it. People will buy PoF because they like the game, not **just** because they want a mount, so doing things to make the game more enjoyable for new players is the correct way to incentivize purchasing expansions. Providing a core mount is a way to do this while also giving a taste of what's to come in PoF. > > It's like saying ... lets give the X artist's album for free with low quality and if they love it they will buy it with the high quality. In the mean time the artist is starving. They kinda do that ya know.. Often times new songs from artists go up on youtube or social media for free which is usually where they are then pirated >.< You still need to buy the whole Album to get all the songs though unless they are uploaded illegally :S There could be many ways a starter mount could work in Gw2.. Giving it no special ability is one way.. making it purely a mobility thing so that new players in endgame could somewhat keep up with mounted zergs in map meta's Slightly decreasing it's speed for non expansion owners would also incentivise them to pay up for the expansions too as they'll get access to the new mounts and maybe a core Tyria mastery to increase their core world mount speed. They can level gate and gold gate the mount too so that new players will have to invest some time in the game normally before they unlock the ability to buy the mount and then will have to save up whatever gold price seems fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxos.2503 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Instead of a mount on demand basis, maybe a Mount rental NPC with a base horse for big flat maps, potentially. But even then, that would require quite a lot development which to be honest, might not be Worth it as much : Most players get around using movement skills and speed buffs, which to be fair is all that's really required for the Core map sizes, with the exception of Orr maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 If you want the content , buy the expansion. Seriously, support the company and the time the devs put into making it. Side note this is also why devs should never had put in rental mounts for events to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 > @"Naxos.2503" said: > Instead of a mount on demand basis, maybe a Mount rental NPC with a base horse for big flat maps, potentially. But even then, that would require quite a lot development which to be honest, might not be Worth it as much : Most players get around using movement skills and speed buffs, which to be fair is all that's really required for the Core map sizes, with the exception of Orr maybe. Rental NPC which states that buying PoF will allow them to Buy their own Horse :D That could work but would mean they would need an NPC in every map unless they Horse rental was like a timed account unlock.. which might also work. Getting around with movement skills etc is pretty good although many of those skills and traits are often not part of some peoples builds.. I myself ran a number of characters through the PvE game back in the day which didn't have access to the 25% speed buff from a signet or trait nor did they have access to Swiftness.. a mount back then would have been significantly beneficial to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxos.2503 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"Naxos.2503" said: > > Instead of a mount on demand basis, maybe a Mount rental NPC with a base horse for big flat maps, potentially. But even then, that would require quite a lot development which to be honest, might not be Worth it as much : Most players get around using movement skills and speed buffs, which to be fair is all that's really required for the Core map sizes, with the exception of Orr maybe. > > Rental NPC which states that buying PoF will allow them to Buy their own Horse :D > That could work but would mean they would need an NPC in every map unless they Horse rental was like a timed account unlock.. which might also work. That might be an idea yus, although the rental service itself requires them to design a new mount (the horse or anything else, since raptor in core Tyria is ... heh ?!), on the basis that it'll Potentially get more people interested in permanent mounts. It gives the devs another avenue of mount skins though, since a permanent horse mount would still be well liked by paying players. Though a new mount would have to get a specific movement type, and potentially a disengage skill, though that might not be entirely necessary on the rental version, no idea how that would work to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 > @"Einlanzer.1627" said: > I really don't understand the arguments against just providing a core mount (like a horse) that can be obtained early by new players. They just really make no logical sense. > ANet thinks that it's a key selling point for the PoF expansion. Expansions (even years after they launched) are a notable source of income for them. Creating a Core-available mount also would cost them additional time/resources to make. tl;dr Higher cost, lower income. > IMO, it's something you should have for a first time leveling experience and fail to see how it would dissuade people from buying PoF. If anything, it would likely lead to more general enjoyment of the game by new players and therefore more desire to buy PoF. I can understand why people who don't make games can think that. It might even be true. But... I hope you can see why the opposite might be true, too: why buy the cow if you are getting the milk for free? Hope that explains the logic ANet might use to decide against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biff.5312 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I think the solution is simple. Instead of chasing the announced events, he should wander and find ones that are not being announced. That's what I tend to do anyway since the announced ones are often completed even before you can wp there. It's not usually very difficult to find enough of them to complete my daily in about 15 minutes, tops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warkind.6745 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 End game content should definitely not be trivialized and handed out to new players. Even if they "want it now." New players wanted to be level 80 right away when HoT dropped and as a result Verdant Brink was filled with the anger of confused noobs kitted out in Soldier's gear for many years. Sometimes it's best to let people earn things for themselves and improve in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skotlex.7580 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Somebody else mentioned that a basic mount without skills wouldn't actually fix the issue the OP's friend had: doing daily events in core Tyria. > @"Biff.5312" said: > I think the solution is simple. Instead of chasing the announced events, he should wander and find ones that are not being announced. That's what I tend to do anyway since the announced ones are often completed even before you can wp there. It's not usually very difficult to find enough of them to complete my daily in about 15 minutes, tops. This is what I used to do, too. Until core events get fixed their scaling so they don't get finished in under 30 seconds with all spawned monsters being one-shot by a rain of aoe and raptor tail swipes, the whole thing is an utter frustrating mess. I just don't do daily events in core Tyria anymore because of this. Fix scaling so that at least we can face off swarms of elite monsters, which will give ample time for people to join and participate, and you'll see have fixed the OPs concern as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayakaru.6583 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Hmm.. i can’t think of any events that end faster than you can run from the nearest waypoint to. Could it be your friend also doesn’t have many waypoints unlocked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillberd.8543 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Who needs a mount when you can already outrun a centaur? Though I feel where your friend is coming from on the whole mount envy. I had to wait for a sale before I could buy PoF and it got pretty demoralizing watching all the mounts dash past me in the meantime. I had also paid for the original game too so it was extra salty when they made it FtP. I don't think it would hurt anything if Anet was to release a simple starter mount via GEM purchase that doesn't have any abilities other than increased speed. Possibly make it accessible to lvl 80's so new players get to experience all of tyria the way it was intended, slow and frustrating when local baddies stun and knock you over while you are just trying to explore haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biff.5312 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 > @"Ayakaru.6583" said: > Hmm.. i can’t think of any events that end faster than you can run from the nearest waypoint to. > Could it be your friend also doesn’t have many waypoints unlocked? Actually many of them do. What you want is to look for timed events, such as defending an outpost or something where the duration is built-in, or an escort. For other events, often the announcement comes such that even if you WP right away and run over, you're too late. Part of that is because people often wait until the event is nearly over before announcing, but even when not I've more often than not found no opportunity to participate once I get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShiningSquirrel.3751 Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 > @"Ayakaru.6583" said: > Hmm.. i can’t think of any events that end faster than you can run from the nearest waypoint to. > Could it be your friend also doesn’t have many waypoints unlocked? Yes, as has already been said several times, that is why I was thinking of getting him a waypoint unlock pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShiningSquirrel.3751 Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 Thanks for the feedback everyone, I think for my friend, I am just going to give him POF as a gift. I am going to talk him in to NOT using any level boosts on his "main" toon and see what he thinks about creating a new one, level boost to 80 to use to unlock mounts then just use them on his main. This way he can have his mounts and level normally too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reis.4017 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I remember when i came back to the game after a break of 5 months. I've quited in PoF release and had already purchased the base game and HoT. It was my first time seeing the mounts in game. Mannn I was doing Dragon Stand Meta and we were in the Blight Towers phase and always when i died and got back to the waypoint going back to the fight i remember all the raptors passing flying with they long jump leaving me behind and you feel like shit. So yeah I guess i know how the core players feels. I guess It should be implemented a starter mount, i really doubt it would affect PoF sales negativelly. And no people. Mounts are not a PoF content since it can be used all around tyria and in the core area (which was a exp of the free game back in the days), so aren't gliders. They are movement content. I myself use a core account when playing with some of my friends that has no expansions yet and I use the beetles to open maps like Kessex Hills, Gendarran Fields. So the mounts are already there. Anet should just realize that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue.4756 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Bug fat no,. Get access mounts like the rest of us did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 > @"ShiningSquirrel.3751" said: > Thanks for the feedback everyone, I think for my friend, I am just going to give him POF as a gift. I am going to talk him in to NOT using any level boosts on his "main" toon and see what he thinks about creating a new one, level boost to 80 to use to unlock mounts then just use them on his main. This way he can have his mounts and level normally too.. Once he gets PoF he can get raptor at any level as long as he accompanies a level 80 doing that story section. He can hang back and let the level 80 do all the fighting but help with putting out fires and rezzing NPCs for the Heart, then talk to the Heart Vendor at the end to get his Mount. I’ve run a couple low levels through to get a Mount myself so I know it works. He just needs to be sure to get a raptor and not go riding off on his Heart rental raptor. He can also ride in to the city and get waypoints unlocked. After that he’ll have his Mount, access to the first PoF map for that char, and he can save the level 80 boost for later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShiningSquirrel.3751 Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > @"ShiningSquirrel.3751" said: > > Thanks for the feedback everyone, I think for my friend, I am just going to give him POF as a gift. I am going to talk him in to NOT using any level boosts on his "main" toon and see what he thinks about creating a new one, level boost to 80 to use to unlock mounts then just use them on his main. This way he can have his mounts and level normally too.. > > Once he gets PoF he can get raptor at any level as long as he accompanies a level 80 doing that story section. He can hang back and let the level 80 do all the fighting but help with putting out fires and rezzing NPCs for the Heart, then talk to the Heart Vendor at the end to get his Mount. I’ve run a couple low levels through to get a Mount myself so I know it works. He just needs to be sure to get a raptor and not go riding off on his Heart rental raptor. He can also ride in to the city and get waypoints unlocked. > > After that he’ll have his Mount, access to the first PoF map for that char, and he can save the level 80 boost for later. AWESOME! I was not aware you could do that. I had thought you had to be level 80 to access the content, did not know you could do it that way. I still have several toons that still have the story to do so I will just bring him through with me. That makes it SOOOOOO much easier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Players should not get access to expansion content even if said content is nerfed down. The expansion is currently $30 and may go on sale within the next few months with the next episode. As far as travel, all classes have access to 33% movement speed. There is food that rewards swiftness per kill slowing you to stack minutes. Unlocking all waypoints is fairly painless. I personally found hopping from WP to WP and learning where the events spawn to be the best way than simply relying on map chat. The wiki has a page for each map listing the events and where they spawn. There’s also a page that lists what the next days’s daily will be so that you can refresh your memory about that particular map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShiningSquirrel.3751 Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 > @"Rogue.4756" said: > Bug fat no,. Get access mounts like the rest of us did. Thank you for that very helpful and enlightening response! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 > @"ShiningSquirrel.3751" said: > So I have been helping a friend get in to the game. He has the core game so far (Heroic edition not FTP) and like it. There is one issue that has come up however that is souring him on the game and is very frustrating for him. He has leveled enough that he can now do dailies, however it is extremely hard to complete some of them due to not having a mount and competing with players who do. Example, when an event completer daily comes up and he attempts to do it, other players will helpfully post the location for the event or it will show on the map. By the time he runs to that location, the event is over because everyone with a mount got there much faster and completed it. I did explain that he will get mounts eventually but you know how some people "want it now". So I was thinking, would it be that bad to give new players a "default" mount? No special abilities other then movement speed. It could also be a source of revenue by selling skins as well? Any thoughts? I have been thinking about just buying him a waypoint unlock package but that kind of spoils the fun of exploring. Any other suggestions/thoughts? Tell your friend to buy PoF maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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