Warclaw is cool but...

[Celsith.2753]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> PvE players who will go into WvW to get the mount will stop returning once they've gotten it. Bearing this in mind, it might not be a bad idea for ANet to make it more useful in PvE, _unless they don't plan to sell skins for it_. People in general will be less inclined to spend money on something they will not want to use.

 

I believe one of the reasons it's made to be underwhelming in pve is the cost compared to the other mounts in both time, effort and gold.

[Tiviana.2650]

Im not going to complain over a free mount. Its a cat, its cool, you can ride it, you didnt pay for it..thats good enough for me. It dont need to be as fast or jump mountains if i want to do that i have mounts that will.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

if its too slow use a different mount.

lol.

[Terc.5736]

I'm glad Warclaw kept me busy for a few hours, unfortunately the further nerf of Istan champions balanced that fun out. When are they going to nerf Silverwastes farm as well or is that farm a favorite son?

[daydreamer.3092]

pls reduce endurance bars to 2

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Critical Lag.9075" said:

> > @"Exalted Quality.8534" said:

> > This is why pve players shouldn’t be allowed to suggest things for wvw. Smh. They said this mount is made for wvw and wouldn’t be useful in pve. Why are you surprised?

>

> It doesn't have to be useful in PvE but it would be nice if it wasn't totally useless. Give me a single good reason why it can't have mastery skills and be a little bit faster outside WvW ? "Hurr durr it's WvW mount" is not a good reason.

Every single mount has something it's good for, where it's better than other mounts. In other aspects however, those mounts may be lacking. Skimmer for example is very fast on water, but really slow everywhere else. If you don't go to areas where it's good, it may seem to be really underwhelming and worse than any other mount. Griffon is very good when flying, but if you insist to use it only as a land mount, it's suddenly very subpar, and may seem useless.

It so happens, that the good side of Warclaw is not speed, but its ability to be used in WvW. If you don't go to WvW, you may think it's uderwhelming and worse than any other mount, but that's only because you insist to use it for things it isn't good for, and ignore those where it shines. In short, that's not a problem with warclaw, but with you.

You might as well ask for skimmer to have raptor speed on land, or for jackal to be able to run on water. It'd have exactly as much sense.

 

 

[Critical Lag.9075]

> @"Exalted Quality.8534" said:

>

> > @"Critical Lag.9075" said:

> > > @"Exalted Quality.8534" said:

> > > This is why pve players shouldn’t be allowed to suggest things for wvw. Smh. They said this mount is made for wvw and wouldn’t be useful in pve. Why are you surprised?

> >

> > It doesn't have to be useful in PvE but it would be nice if it wasn't totally useless. Give me a single good reason why it can't have mastery skills and be a little bit faster outside WvW ? "Hurr durr it's WvW mount" is not a good reason.

> >

> > Anyway, I don't really care much myself, I would probably never use it, even if it was on par with jackal.

>

> I hope they release more WvW mounts in the future that little PvErs like you find inadequate, because the bag farming is LEGENDARY right now.???

 

And who said I'm PvE-only player? I'm not playing WvW 24/7 but I played my share and I honestly don't care if they make more WvW mounts. Also if they ever release new WvW mount, it will probably be you and other WvW veterans crying first how ANet destroys the mode before any PvE player gets even a chance to do so.

[Palador.2170]

Hello there!

 

I would like to point out two things: First, the Warclaw is actually a lot like the Skimmer, it has a terrain where it shines and it's below average nearly everywhere else. For the Skimmer that's on the water, for the Warclaw that's in WvW areas. Both of them do something no other mount can do, but at the cost of being less than ideal in any other area.

 

Second, there IS a reason to leave it as-is in PvE. Or, rather, the potential is there just waiting to be used. Have you done the PvE achievements with it yet? They're pretty simple on the surface, get on your Warclaw and stand here or jump there, pretty easy. But... did you notice that some of that is done in instances where they wouldn't allow any other mount to be used? Did you notice that the game is taking note of if you're actually using the Warclaw or not when you stand in those places?

 

The Warclaw can be used in places where other mounts would break a map or instance, but that goes away if it starts to get better at moving around. Also, they can have "Warclaw Only" races or race achievements if they want, given that they can track if you're using it or not. The limits of the Warclaw CAN be put to good use in PvE, they just haven't done so yet. YET. Let's give them some time and see what they do.

 

> @"Terc.5736" said:

> I'm glad Warclaw kept me busy for a few hours, unfortunately the further nerf of Istan champions balanced that fun out. When are they going to nerf Silverwastes farm as well or is that farm a favorite son?

 

I think the important thing is that Silverwastes is accessible to all, Istan requires a specific LS chapter. I don't think they want the best farm in the game to be hidden behind a gemstore unlock, that just stinks of Pay to Win.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

I wonder if they can have WvW traits active in the open world, so you can have the full potential of skills in PvE as well.

 

Unless that breaks stuff ofcourse, i have no idea.

 

Either way, I kinda like the idea of working to unlock WvW abilities that are also limitedly usuable or cosmetically visible in PvE, albeit not essential. Not just for the mount, but also for more. In a way to progress your character across gamemodes, and showing a bit more cohesion of the gameworld.

 

Meaning, I like that the mount isn't purely WvW, tbh.

[Linken.6345]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> I wonder if they can have WvW traits active in the open world, so you can have the full potential of skills in PvE as well.

>

> Unless that breaks stuff ofcourse, i have no idea.

>

> Either way, I kinda like the idea of working to unlock WvW abilities that are also limitedly usuable or cosmetically visible in PvE, albeit not essential. Not just for the mount, but also for more. In a way to progress your character across gamemodes, and showing a bit more cohesion of the gameworld.

>

> Meaning, I like that the mount isn't purely WvW, tbh.

 

Well the kill downed skill could be used on the toxic alliance kraits that spawn in some Kessesx hills and ganderan fields events since they use down state.

[Ganathar.4956]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> I wonder if they can have WvW traits active in the open world, so you can have the full potential of skills in PvE as well.

>

> Unless that breaks stuff ofcourse, i have no idea.

>

> Either way, I kinda like the idea of working to unlock WvW abilities that are also limitedly usuable or cosmetically visible in PvE, albeit not essential. Not just for the mount, but also for more. In a way to progress your character across gamemodes, and showing a bit more cohesion of the gameworld.

>

> Meaning, I like that the mount isn't purely WvW, tbh.

I wouldn't mind if the WvW abilities to be unlockable in PvE with mastery points. It would not make the mount much more useful in PvE, but it would give you something extra to spend all of those spare PoF mastery points on.

[Erasculio.2914]

One issue with this community is the vocal minority with thousand of posts (and yet few topics) that goes into most discussions to say that no, the idea (any idea) is bad and the game should not be changed because [everything is fine](https://i.imgur.com/c4jt321.png).

 

**Q: What would players gain if the Warclaw were changed to be faster in PvE, as fast as the Jackal?**

 

A: More players would enjoy using it, and thus use it more often.

 

**Q: What would ArenaNet gain if the Warclaw were changed to be faster in PvE, as fast as the Jackal?**

 

A: With more players using it more often, players would be more likely to buy a skin for the Warclaw in the Gem Store. There's a diminishing return for mount skins - someone who already bought one is less likely to buy more skins for the same mount. One way around this would be for ArenaNet to add more mount types to the game, but this takes a lot of resources. Considering how the Warclaw is already in the game and is a new mount, thus one for which no one has ever bought a mount skin yet, it's a great opportunity for ArenaNet to sell skins. As long, of course, as a lot of people use it often.

 

So making the Warclaw faster in PvE is basically a win/win situation.

 

**Q: "But PvE players will be forced to get the Warclaw, otherwise they would be at a disadvantage!"**

 

This is a very bad argument, but anyway: with the Warclaw being only as fast as the Jackal, and considering how it already has other drawbacks (one less endurance bar, no imunity to fall damage through the dash, and so on), someone with the Jackal would be at no disadvantage when compared to someone with the Warclaw.

 

**Q: "But the Warclaw would need to have different speeds in PvE and in WvW, this is technically impossible!"**

 

False. The Warclaw already has two different speeds, one in owned WvW territories and another in enemy WvW territories.

 

**Q: "Making this change would be too cost consuming for ArenaNet!"**

 

Possibly. You don't have information to judge this, though; you only know as much about how many resources this would take as those asking for it.

 

**Q: "But ArenaNet didn't make this change themselves, which means they thought it was a bad idea, and they know better than you!"**

 

If ArenaNet never made any mistake, they wouldn't just have been forced to layoff one third of their team. Just see yesterday's patch that nerfed the Warclaw. Once in a while they listen to suggestions from the community, and this is a good one.

 

So the question to the naysayers is, **"why not?"**. Other than "because ArenaNet is perfect and should never change the game because it's perfect as it is".

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Duncanmix.5238" said:

> Why is it so much worse then jackal in PVE? Its slower, it has only 2 leap bars, and its leap is worse then Jackals portal especially uphill.

> I understand logic behind limiting it in WvW, but in PVE it should offer similar speed to Jackal in my opinion.

 

> @"Pifil.5193" said:

> I think it's fine the way it is, it has more health than any other mount and its engage skill does higher damage than any other mount.

>

> It's not fast, it's not _supposed_ to be fast or nimble, it's _supposed_ to be a bruiser that's its thing.

 

Yeah, in terms of PVE, I think this is the benefit or special niche with this mount, it has more health and it does more damage.

[RiyazGuerra.9203]

Some of you guys are just beyond ridiculous. If Anet devs are respectable programmers, which I see no reason to believe otherwise, all you would need to do to increase the speed of the mount would be to change the value of ONE variable.

 

I agree with the OP, I see no reason _not to change_ the speed of the Warclaw to make it comparable to the default movement speed of the Springer/Raptor. Griffon speed is not good enough because the griffon serves a very unique role as being the only mount that allows you to fly. The Warclaw would not have any special environmental traversing mechanic like (Springer-vertical jump, Griffon-flight) so it would not nullify the usefulness of any other mount.

 

Buff the Warclaw speed.

[hugo.4705]

At least, I can say the mount looks great. And afterall maybe it's the best mount to take the time exploring/ admiring the landscape.

Erasculio summed up the situation very well. Finally someone understanding our points. I can only recommand to read his comment.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@"Erasculio.2914"

Nice post, but you are missing the singular most important reason for why the mount doesn't function the same way in PvE:

 

During the livestream the developers mentioned that having a dedicated WvW mount would allow them to modify/tweak it at will, without impacting PvE in any way.

 

The mount isn't meant for PvE

It's far easier for ANET if nobody has any expectations for this mount in PvE, allowing them to just focus on balancing it for WvW, for which it was intended

 

You wanted to know why? There ya go.

 

 

[Kal Spiro.9745]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> I wonder if they can have WvW traits active in the open world, so you can have the full potential of skills in PvE as well.

>

> Unless that breaks stuff ofcourse, i have no idea.

>

> Either way, I kinda like the idea of working to unlock WvW abilities that are also limitedly usuable or cosmetically visible in PvE, albeit not essential. Not just for the mount, but also for more. In a way to progress your character across gamemodes, and showing a bit more cohesion of the gameworld.

>

> Meaning, I like that the mount isn't purely WvW, tbh.

 

Unfortunately this would cause problems specifically because of Gliding, which has a Mastery track and a WvW trait line. They do basically the same thing, the only difference being that the Mastery Track has Ley gliding, and the WvW line separates speeding up and slowing down instead. Having WvW traits function outside of WvW would allow someone who only WvWs to have a fully functional Glider even without the masteries.

 

I'm pretty sure that in order to make the Warclaw fully functional in PvE they would want to add a Mastery Track, it's just unclear what would be in that track since much of the WvW trait line is useless in PvE. I believe one of the traits increases it's HP to the full 17k, one trait gives it the third endurace bar. I'm not sure what else would be worthwhile to PvE.

 

> @"Erasculio.2914" said:

> **Q: "But ArenaNet didn't make this change themselves, which means they thought it was a bad idea, and they know better than you!"**

>

> If ArenaNet never made any mistake, they wouldn't just have been forced to layoff one third of their team. Just see yesterday's patch that nerfed the Warclaw. Once in a while they listen to suggestions from the community, and this is a good one.

>

> So the question to the naysayers is, **"why not?"**. Other than "because ArenaNet is perfect and should never change the game because it's perfect as it is".

No one is saying, "They know better than you." At least I don't think so. We're saying it's their choice to make and regardless of what we all might thing, they disagree, so that's just how it is. We're also looking at this from a balance stand point and are looking for a justification for the change.

 

So lets delve into that, shall we? Because remember, each mount has a purpose. I'm going to start with just the original four. The Raptor is the highest over land speed because of the extreme jump distance, and also for traversing long gaps. The Springer is for scaling extreme heights. The Skimmer is for traversing water and dangerous ground environments. The Jackal has a high overland speed and is fastest at going up hills, it can also manage corner gaps with teleportation.

 

Then we get the Griffon which negates the need for both the Raptor and Springer because of its ability to fly. The Springer can still get up tall places faster and more efficiently than a Griffon, and the Raptor is still faster overland than the Griffon.

 

Finally we get the Beetle which is the absolute fastest overland for great distances, without a lot of obstructions and twists and turns. It has a lot of issues and a high learning curve to fully make use of that though.

 

So we take the Warclaw and we make it as fast a a Jackal, which is comparable to a Raptor. It doesn't have the mobility of either the Jackal or the Raptor, so it's still slow compared to both. What did we gain? What benefits does it provide, aside from being a cat, that we don't already have? Take into mind that it doesn't have any of the benefits of the WvW trait line, so it doesn't have the HP and it doesn't have the three endurance bars. Why would I choose the Warclaw over any of the other mounts in the situation, just because it's standard run speed is now a little faster? What niche does it fill? None. It serves no purpose. It's still slower than all other options because it's not designed to be otherwise. So what exactly is the point?

[Erasculio.2914]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> The mount isn't meant for PvE

 

Kinda irrelevant, considering how:

 

a. It already works in PvE.

 

b. As mentioned in my previous post, making it more useful in PvE would be better both for the PvE players and for ArenaNet.

 

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> During the livestream the developers mentioned that having a dedicated WvW mount would allow them to modify/tweak it at will, without impacting PvE in any way.

 

Again, kinda irrelevant, because:

 

a. Since the mount is already useable in PvE, changing it would have an impact in PvE anyway. Unless...

 

b. Any change to the mount were kept WvW-only, which would truly, actually "allow them to modify/tweak it at will, without impacting PvE in any way".

 

Considering how yesterday's patch already changed the Warclaw's damage in WvW without changing it in PvE, and how the Warclaw already has more than one possible base speed, there's nothing preventing ArenaNet from changing the Warclaw's speed in PvE only, while keeping it the same in WvW.

 

So yeah, your reason why isn't a reason at all.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Erasculio.2914" said:

> So yeah, your reason why isn't a reason at all.

 

Yeah, that wasn't my reason, that was the reason the developers gave. But clearly you know better.

 

I'll enjoy my mount in WvW and PvE; you go ahead and enjoy typing on your keyboard and feeling bitter.

 

/out

 

 

[Naxos.2503]

To be honest, I sometime use my skimmer on land despite it being grossly out-performed by most other mounts, Simply because Skimmer is my favorite mount of them all. It doesn't have to perform Exceptionally, if you have fun handling the mount, it's generally sufficient. Not everything has to have a bonus efficiency to be fun to use. That's what novelties are based on. The mount should be treated as a Novelty mount for PvE, and a useable weapon in WvW, as it was intended from the beginning.

 

Could it be improved to actually have more of an impact in PvE ? Sure. But on that level, I'd like my flute to have buff attached to it's notes, so I can become a fully fledged bard. I'm half serious, but you see where I'm going with this.

 

It's not a bad thing, but it's probably not mandatory, and should not be a priority right now.

[Erasculio.2914]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"Erasculio.2914" said:

> > So yeah, your reason why isn't a reason at all.

>

> Yeah, that wasn't my reason, that was the reason the developers gave. But clearly you know better.

 

As seen from my post above:

 

> @"Erasculio.2914" said:

> **Q: "But ArenaNet didn't make this change themselves, which means they thought it was a bad idea, and they know better than you!"**

>

> If ArenaNet never made any mistake, they wouldn't just have been forced to layoff one third of their team. Just see yesterday's patch that nerfed the Warclaw. Once in a while they listen to suggestions from the community, and this is a good one.

 

So, yeah. Your reason is no reason at all.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Erasculio.2914" said:

> One issue with this community is the vocal minority with thousand of posts (and yet few topics) that goes into most discussions to say that no, the idea (any idea) is bad and the game should not be changed because [everything is fine](https://i.imgur.com/c4jt321.png).

>

> **Q: What would players gain if the Warclaw were changed to be faster in PvE, as fast as the Jackal?**

>

> A: More players would enjoy using it, and thus use it more often.

Q: If more players preferred Warclaw over jackal, would that not make people enjoy and use Jackal less?

A: yes, it would.

 

All the next questions of yours would need to factor that in. Because, in the end:

 

Q: would making Warclaw faster in PvE make people use mounts more

A: not very likely.

 

In the end, you are simply unwilling to see a mount you like have any significant disadvantage. I know that feeling, i'd really, really like if the skimmer was much faster on land than it is. I do understand however why it is not.

[Erasculio.2914]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> Q: would making Warclaw faster in PvE make people use mounts more

> A: not very likely.

 

Which would be an issue if ArenaNet were selling all mount skins individually and at the same time. Considering how that's not what they're doing, we're in a situation in which people have already bought skins for their Jackals, but no one has bought skins for their Warclaws. Thus, if more people began using the Warclaw, it would be better for ArenaNet.

 

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> In the end, you are simply unwilling to see a mount you like have any significant disadvantage.

 

Other than having one less endurance bar than the jackal, being one of the few mounts vulnerable to fall damage, not having a Mastery line to improve it, and being the only mount that does not have any kind of unique move or advantage over the others?

 

 

 

 

 

[Graymalkyn.8076]

> @"Duncanmix.5238" said:

> Why is it so much worse then jackal in PVE? Its slower, it has only 2 leap bars, and its leap is worse then Jackals portal especially uphill.

> I understand logic behind limiting it in WvW, but in PVE it should offer similar speed to Jackal in my opinion.

 

Put a few points in it and you do get a third leap bar. And jackal is one of the two fastest mounts (raptor being the other)...that's one of it's stand-out values. This one is fine being only as fast as a griffon. If you want the speed, use a raptor or a jackal. No mount is a full-use mount...they all have their purposes.

[hugo.4705]

I think I have a solution to make both camps happy, without making to great in PvE but still correct and making the players enjoying it and not destroying it in WvW, and it's pretty easy, will not affect its skills: (WvW skills / PvE ones (share health, endurance, bond of faith))

The mount has 1 speed, gryphon on land speed everywhere BUT let's use the endurance bar differently: Instead of pressing your key and making it "leap" (jumping 2 cm over the ground not very far) and consuming one endurance bar, let's make the mount sprint like a feline: Teh teh teh let me explain:

-As long as you are keeping the endurance key pressed, you are consuming your bars slowly, and the mount is moving faster, let's say as a base 125% the speed it has normally (so the gryphon on land speed), and at 0 you can't press the key, it recharge itself. Also the endurance recharge skill in PvE regenerate it very slowly.