Stop Complaining About Scrapper, It Isn't OP - Now With Video Proof

[whoknocks.4935]

> @"Zenix.6198" said:

> Personally I DONT mind scrapper.

> It just is another bunker. It kind of reminds me of Druid in HoT tbh.

>

> Sure it can hold a capped node forever...but it doesn't really kill players, making them terrible at decapping, if the enemy team has any map awareness.

> It is nothing new tbh. Literally every other 1v1 spec can stalemate them.

>

> People have become so alienated by the super burst meta we had for the past ~18 months that they dont know how to play around those type of builds.

> Sure....it is hard to kill, even with +1s and Im not saying that it doesnt need nerfs in some departments (like bulwark gyro), but it isnt as busted as people make it out to be.

> As said ....personally I am reminded of HoT druids and eventually people will also get used to play around them.

 

Problem is, high rank players already know how to deal with it and play around it, but low rank players (90% of the players) cry because they keep 2vs1 or 1vs1 a scrapper on the node he is holding and they are surprised why they lose.

 

Nerf scrapper and you will have another 1 or 2 or 3 seasons full of condi mirages, boonbeast and holos again.

 

Not to mention firebrand plus scourge is in fucking meta since PoF release, I would rather to see that braindead duo finally gutted and see some tempest support or some other thing to refresh the meta.

 

Now only sidenoding builds determine the meta...

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > @"Zenix.6198" said:

> > Personally I DONT mind scrapper.

> > It just is another bunker. It kind of reminds me of Druid in HoT tbh.

> >

> > Sure it can hold a capped node forever...but it doesn't really kill players, making them terrible at decapping, if the enemy team has any map awareness.

> > It is nothing new tbh. Literally every other 1v1 spec can stalemate them.

> >

> > People have become so alienated by the super burst meta we had for the past ~18 months that they dont know how to play around those type of builds.

> > Sure....it is hard to kill, even with +1s and Im not saying that it doesnt need nerfs in some departments (like bulwark gyro), but it isnt as busted as people make it out to be.

> > As said ....personally I am reminded of HoT druids and eventually people will also get used to play around them.

>

> Problem is, high rank players already know how to deal with it and play around it, but low rank players (90% of the players) cry because they keep 2vs1 or 1vs1 a scrapper on the node he is holding and they are surprised why they lose.

>

> Nerf scrapper and you will have another 1 or 2 or 3 seasons full of condi mirages, boonbeast and holos again.

>

> Not to mention firebrand plus scourge is in kitten meta since PoF release, I would rather to see that braindead duo finally gutted and see some tempest support or some other thing to refresh the meta.

>

> Now only sidenoding builds determine the meta...

 

Low rank players get farmed by weavers. :tongue:

 

I know that wasn't your point, actually I agree with you. I just wanted to point out the absurdity of (very?) low ranked games. Not taking part in the discussion whether balancing should happen around the absolute top either (which I do not agree with).

 

I still think scrapper needs some minor adjustments for things which are just dumb (sneak gyro) then it's fine balancing-wise. Not fun, but fine balancing-wise. They still should've done different stuff, but that's also already a meme with Anet.

[Zenix.6198]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > @"Zenix.6198" said:

> > Personally I DONT mind scrapper.

> > It just is another bunker. It kind of reminds me of Druid in HoT tbh.

> >

> > Sure it can hold a capped node forever...but it doesn't really kill players, making them terrible at decapping, if the enemy team has any map awareness.

> > It is nothing new tbh. Literally every other 1v1 spec can stalemate them.

> >

> > People have become so alienated by the super burst meta we had for the past ~18 months that they dont know how to play around those type of builds.

> > Sure....it is hard to kill, even with +1s and Im not saying that it doesnt need nerfs in some departments (like bulwark gyro), but it isnt as busted as people make it out to be.

> > As said ....personally I am reminded of HoT druids and eventually people will also get used to play around them.

>

> Problem is, high rank players already know how to deal with it and play around it, but low rank players (90% of the players) cry because they keep 2vs1 or 1vs1 a scrapper on the node he is holding and they are surprised why they lose.

 

^This is very much true.

Funnily enough though ....I cant really blame them. The people that came in with PoF / the people that didnt play pre PoF, never experienced this type of gameplay.

All they ever had was this absurdly high dmg meta, where winning the match was a byproduct of just farming kills.

Its somewhat similar to how literally nobody in low-mid tier matches knows how to play against shield chronos and that denying their sh4 phantasms cucks them super hard.

 

Personally I prefer this type meta much more as opposed to the braindead 1shot meta. Where map awareness and good rotations actually count for something.

 

[MrForz.1953]

I'm just concerned that if Scrapper is nerfed at what it does best, Holosmith will take over that role, again and we're back to square one.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

The same people that cried till their eyes dried out about chronobunker on s1 are now applauding bunker meta.

ANet should release a new profession - hypocrite, bet lots of people would change their main.

[Chaith.8256]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> The same people that cried till their eyes dried out about chronobunker on s1 are now applauding bunker meta.

> ANet should release a new profession - hypocrite, bet lots of people would change their main.

 

That's a big meme if you think the game is like S1 HoT right now.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > The same people that cried till their eyes dried out about chronobunker on s1 are now applauding bunker meta.

> > ANet should release a new profession - hypocrite, bet lots of people would change their main.

>

> That's a big meme if you think the game is like S1 HoT right now.

 

Nice, then we can agree to revert all the nerfs on chrono?

[Chaith.8256]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > The same people that cried till their eyes dried out about chronobunker on s1 are now applauding bunker meta.

> > > ANet should release a new profession - hypocrite, bet lots of people would change their main.

> >

> > That's a big meme if you think the game is like S1 HoT right now.

>

> Nice, then we can agree to revert all the nerfs on chrono?

 

Revert ALL the nerfs on Chrono, ok seems like a good idea! :+1:

[Burnfall.9573]

(I find Engineer interesting but it is not my profession of interest; unfortunately :( )

 

--Rumor has it that Anet is looking into taking a serious look into Scrapper including other bunker professions--

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

-edit-

 

All responses before this were removed so now this response doesn't make sense.

 

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > @"Jojo.6590" said:

> > > The high levels of irony and hypocrisy in this thread have summoned me here!

> > > Consider yourself properly invalidated, hope you enjoyed this lesson.

> > >

> > >

> > This is the best evisceration of 2019

>

> Completely disagree, his jab has many things wrong with it:

>

> 1. I don't even play Scrapper, I main Ranger builds. Saying that "Trevor is a hypocrite for attacking Mirage and pointing out Mesmer mains spotted, but then defends his own class Scrapper" is not only completely misinformed but quite the opposite in truth. If you were to scroll back through the past 5 to 10 pages of this forum, you'll see that I frequently mention that my own class "Ranger" needed to be nerfed on many levels, right along with Mirage. The reason I point out "Mesmer mains spotted" is because these players hilariously defended the state of Mirage, whereas I was accepting and submitting suggestions that Ranger "My own class" needed to be nerfed. So not only have I pointed out what needs to be nerfed on Ranger throughout the years "My own class" but I have actually actively stuck up for other classes that I don't play, when I recognize that there is too much ill-informed nerf band wagon driving against them.

> 2. Complete misuse of the term hypocrite. In accordance with the above truth ^ Calling me a hypocrite actually doesn't make sense at all. If he was referencing @"Chaith.8256" , because of his long time Engi main history, I'd say that's a cheap shot in attempts to discredit the words of a well spoken and generally unbiased forum user, who's points of view comes from a high level of experience playing conquest. Now regardless of how badly any of you want to win the popular opinion of this discussion, we all know that's a silly thing to do. Attempting to discredit the words of others while pointing your finger in every direction except the actual discussion, is a tactic people use to distract a viewer base from the fact that their stated case or opinion is weaker than the stated case or opinion of the person they are attacking.

> 3. Then he seriously closes his statement with this foolish self gratification, as if he were 100% sure that he was correct in all of his assumptions: _"I could link the endless nerf threads some of you have made so that everyone else may enjoy the irony I currently am. But then again, all someone has to do is click on your name to view this information for them self. Yes,I just used objective reasoning to support my statement. Better yet, the objective reasoning is a collection of your own words/complaints being used against you ( there’s some more irony for you)! Consider yourself properly invalidated, hope you enjoyed this lesson."_ It would be very entertaining to see this user actually click my name and link all of this ultra biased and hypocritical content that I've apparently posted. If he tried, he just might find a long list of "Seasonal Class Balance Run Downs" where I insist that Ranger "my own class" needed to be nerfed. And as far as Mirage threads go, I never once made a thread about it myself. I only commented in threads that were already made, and in almost every single statement I ever made, I specifically mentioned that: Mirage needed to be nerfed, right along with Boonbeasts and Holosmiths. I love how the guy said this though: _"a collection of your own words/complaints being used against you - Consider yourself properly invalidated"_ As he shamelessly and proudly posts a text wall of misinformation and threats to expose forum history, which he couldn't back up even if he tried.

>

 

 

Everyone is biased for their own class and against their counters.

 

Kind of like how when Mirage didn't win the MAT or wasn't even represented in the Tournament of Legends finals and a bunch of mesmers mains came out and said "See? We don't need to be nerfed after all!" and you said it doesn't matter it needs to be gutted because it has "Top tier defenses, top tier damage, and top tier chase potential all at once." No one gave Mirage any breaks when it stopped being a MAT staple after the portal nerf and when people tried to defend mirage with that argument the community at large said "Screw you, it's still op. You just suck for not making the MAT finals / top 10 ranked / ect ect."

 

I was never one of those "Oh but what about the MAT?!" peeps, btw. In case you're considering digging through my comment archive. It would be a waste of time.

 

Or like how when you said Condi Mirage was the strongest build in the game and when all I said was I thought Boonbeast was #1 and Condi Mirage #2 because Boonbeast does better than Mirage in both ranked and ATs, making up a majority of the top 10 NA ranked in season 14, you bit my head off and called me a "disingenuous" "liar", "derailing the conversation".

 

Or like how when Countless made a video and a thread about what mesmer changes he'd like to see, mostly nerfs, (One of the best ones, Axe Ambush requires facing the target, actually made it into the game), you pulled the same thing on him told people to not bother reading his thread because it's just a mesmer main trying to deflect from the _real_ problems of the class.

 

Or like in the one thread about how Boonbeast is too powerful your only contribution was "Boonbeast's problems are too technically complicated to fix and under no circumstances should they nerf core ranger."

 

Scrapper has a lot of problematic stuff about it right now. Just fact of the matter. Sneak Gyro is crazy out of line. Even a cursory glance at similar stealth elites like Mass Invisibility and seeing how it gives 4x the stealth at 1/2 the cooldown and activation time shows how out of line it is. Gyros are very powerful and practically completely unreadable, with no active effects on the player's status bar and with only teeny tiny little sprites which all look the same with slight color variations. It's practically immune to condition damage even beyond previously condition resistant builds like Boonbeast. Including a lot of proposed "counters" like curses scourge and core necro. Inventions+Alchemy traitlines have been op on Holosmith for years now and 50% of why scrapper is so strong comes from those two traitline's synergy with each other.

 

You simply don't see how problematic scrapper is and how extremely toxic it is when it gets into high representation because I've only ever seen you on two builds in game: Druid and Sick Em Soulbeast. With Druid you're used to stalling out fights and even if you don't get the kill as long as you contest the node you're doing okay and if you end up 2v1 you're doing great. It's defensive power creep would never even register with you. And Sick Em Sniper is one of the few things with enough power damage to crack through a scrapper.

 

Kind of like when back during seasons 9-11ish when Scourge was running rough shot over ranked and condi mirage mains were like "I don't see what the problem is?" because they could global scourges and then 100% safe stomp it afterwords with the only risk being Plague Signet.

 

> I know you guys want to stress your opinions and gain popular vote on class balance issue, but kitten, have some class & accuracy while doing it.

>

 

This is just amusing considering all the personal attacks you've thrown at me over the months over mirage.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Sigh, OK:

 

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> >

>

>

> Everyone is biased for their own class and against their counters.

 

Please post an actual quote of me being biased. I often suggest nerfs to my own class, and I stick up for classes I don't play when I feel they are underpowered or not overpowered. And yes, I point out when I feel a class is overpowered even if I don't play it.

 

>

> Kind of like how when Mirage didn't win the MAT or wasn't even represented in the Tournament of Legends finals and a bunch of mesmers mains came out and said "See? We don't need to be nerfed after all!" and you said it doesn't matter it needs to be gutted because it has "Top tier defenses, top tier damage, and top tier chase potential all at once." No one gave Mirage any breaks when it stopped being a MAT staple after the portal nerf and when people tried to defend mirage with that argument the community at large said "Screw you, it's still op. You just suck for not making the MAT finals / top 10 ranked / ect ect."

 

^ None of this has anything to do with any of my statements about Mirage. I was basing all of my Mirage feedback on 1v1 node hold tests vs. top 50 players. It had nothing to do with AT representation or Ranked representation or Unranked. It was simply 1v1 kill power/survive power/node hold power, which I felt was overboard considering everything else it was good at. But can we leave this Mirage stuff alone man? This thread was about Scrapper, not Mirage. You guys keep bringing up this Mirage stuff, like you can't let go of it. And then sit here and wonder why people say things like "Mirage main spotted."

 

>

> Or like how when you said Condi Mirage was the strongest build in the game and when all I said was I thought Boonbeast was #1 and Condi Mirage #2 because Boonbeast does better than Mirage in both ranked and ATs, making up a majority of the top 10 NA ranked in season 14, you bit my head off and called me a "disingenuous" "liar", "derailing the conversation".

 

Disingenuous liar? Dude, you need to reread your own thread and my comments there-in: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/66114/will-mirage-ever-get-a-proper-nerf/p2 First of all, I never called you disingenuous or a liar. Second of all, quoting myself here, all I said was "Boonbeast is no where near as strong as a Condi Mirage in general performance. " <- actual quote go read it. But every time you bring up this old conversation for the sake of poking me, you somehow turn this statement into: "Trevor said Condi Mirage was the best build in the game, and that Boonbeast doesn't compare." lol that is seriously nothing like what I said. Go back an reread my comments, and do it while not being defensive about it.

 

>

> Or like how when Countless made a video and a thread about what mesmer changes he'd like to see, mostly nerfs, (One of the best ones, Axe Ambush requires facing the target, actually made it into the game), you pulled the same thing on him told people to not bother reading his thread because it's just a mesmer main trying to deflect from the _real_ problems of the class.

 

OK look, he stated that he thought it would be a great idea to make it so Signet of Humiliation not only polymorphed you into the Moa, but also laid down immobilization on you simultaneously. I mean... ok. let's just skip this part.

 

>

> Or like in the one thread about how Boonbeast is too powerful your only contribution was "Boonbeast's problems are too technically complicated to fix and under no circumstances should they nerf core ranger."

 

What are you talking about? There are like 3 threads where I elaborately explain what needed to be nerfed on Soulbeast, starting specifically with https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fresh_Reinforcement I certainly did not say anything in the realm of "Boonbeasts are to complicated to fix." What? Please just stop spreading injected statements about things that I said, that I never said. Like I'm asking you, please stop. I don't do it to you, why do you do it to me? The only thing I do is lay down a subjective opinion, and then respond to things like this, where people are trying to discredit me with misinformation about things that I never said.

 

>

> You simply don't see how problematic scrapper is and how extremely toxic it is when it gets into high representation because I've only ever seen you on two builds in game: Druid and Sick Em Sniper. With Druid you're used to stalling out fights and even if you don't get the kill as long as you contest the node you're doing okay and if you end up 2v1 you're doing great. It's defensive power creep would never even register with you. And Sick Em Sniper is one of the few things with enough power damage to crack through a scrapper.

 

I actually agree with you on this, and this is why I stated as much about "my subjective point of view" in my OP post, and how I thought that the disappearance of Condi MIrage/DE/Core Guard would enable glassier DPS builds again, which would be able to deal with Scrapper. This is the entire fundamental basis of why I was saying Scrapper wasn't OP, because in time we're going to start seeing a lot more Spellbreaker/Herald/DPS Soulbeasts.

 

>

> This is just amusing considering all the personal attacks you've thrown at me over the months over mirage.

 

Personal attacks? Ok man, I linked the only thread that we ever had a discussion about Condi Mirage in. You should reread it, and notice that all I did was state opinions. I never attacked you or your credibility, not even once.

 

At any rate, this is the last response I'm making in this thread. I've already stated how I feel about Scrapper, end of story. Proceed on as you wish.

[TorQ.7041]

> @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> I like that scrapper makes the game honest and forces people to play power builds, but like there is legit no point in playing condition builds vs. one.

>

> It does objectively lower build variety in a sense, and strangely I'm fine with it.

>

> Another thing is that effective HP < invulns so Scrapper is actually a lot less evil than Mirage from last patch.

>

> Sure you can say "burst damage" counters scrapper, but what is to stop a Scrapper from using toolkit shield, sanctuary runes, and elixir X to mitigate power burst? With "cleanse conditions on protection" on the toolbelt gyro heal and elixir gun cleanse, you don't lose much by only having bulwark gyro. Literally if you think you're going to get bursted just pop the stability from bulwark gyro toolbelt or pop elixir X before hand and they waste time on you even as power. Getting tornado is ACTUALLY good right now (because wells work while the elixir is going off so you virtually can be tanky and useful even if you get RNG tornado'd) if you're a scrapper because vs. certain match ups you can full cap them and they'll never get the point back from you.

>

> Don't get me wrong, **scrapper perpetuates a greater good** but it is still too strong and NEEDS a small shave. Not something big like 0.25 seconds off mirage dodge.

>

> Let's start with the barrier passive on it's trait line, that might be good enough. Or maybe a cd increase on some of the gyros too. A small change on those will make the complaining stop and we'll actually have an okay meta.

>

>

 

You basically listed some skills that a scrappers can use and assume that just because of these skills scrappers are Immortal.

 

It is not.

 

A good player will watch when you use these skills then burst you. I play scrap and can tank alot of different classes like mesmers and boonbeasts. But a good strength war can spot when u used ur cool downs. Bull charge and kill you in seconds.

 

Cc is what kills scrapper. I have lost to a reaper mutiple times just because he burned my CC's and I didn't dodge properly. I simply avoided him and went to a different node and won the game.

 

Last night I fought a pistol whip deadeye. He blind unloaded all skills at once into me in which I blocked and reflected.

 

If he had saved his burst when I had my window of no cool downs I would have been dead. And trust me there will be alot of times when there's no skills you can use.

 

This is where skill comes you. A warrior has shake it off. Why can't a scrapper have stab? You are literally just listing some skills then assuming scrapper is godlike because one either you are playing a build that doesn't counter it or 2 you burn all your bursts into blocks and evades. Neither of which would kill a scrapper.

 

I guarantee you a top tier warrior or reaper can kill a top tier scrapper or basically keep the point neutral due to cc and dps pressure

 

If you check the above post of the image showing 5 scrappers losing badly you will see that it's not unbeatable and takes some skill to actually be able to sustain.

[SardonyxDragoon.8213]

My last match was 0 scrapper vs the other team with 2 scrapper. Solo que gold3, I don't think there was anything that I could have done. I don't care if there's 4 scrappers on the map 2 on each team, but 2 vs 0? Why que anymore as any class? Why play? No reason actually. Its too bad I like the game.

[Chaith.8256]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> No one gave Mirage any breaks when it stopped being a MAT staple after the portal nerf and when people tried to defend mirage with that argument the community at large said "Screw you, it's still op. You just suck for not making the MAT finals / top 10 ranked / ect ect."

>But can we leave this Mirage stuff alone man? This thread was about Scrapper, not Mirage. You guys keep bringing up this Mirage stuff, like you can't let go of it. And then sit here and wonder why people say things like "Mirage main spotted."

 

So true. Some players feel SO personally attacked by previous nerf suggestions about their class that they are convinced any future opinions you have about Scrapper is motivated by emotional investment in it.

Obviously I see no emotional investment in Scrapper clouding your judgement.

 

You've been completely mischaracterized, and targeted for attempts at roasts and sick burns by people who see you as complicit in their class getting nerfed, and when that's being held onto you can't have any productive future discussion.

 

PSA: Forum opinions are not directly responsible for balance changes.. The most persuasive balance thread of the week doesn't get directly put into the game. It's just a discussion about how Scrapper is or isn't OP as a whole.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> PSA: Forum opinions are not directly responsible for balance changes.

 

Bs.

 

Forum opinions drive the balance.

 

Already proved it once but here it goes again.

 

BF op - BF nerfed

Vigor op - Vigor nerfed

Torch op - torch nerfed

EM op - EM nerfed

Portal op - portal nerfed

Jaunt op - jaunt nerfed

Ambush should required face - now it does

MC should be. 75 - it is now.

 

Are you gonna tell me it is just a coincidence that those precise things were the ones getting complained and next patch were addressed?

 

Feel free to check the qq dates and patch dates.

 

[Chaith.8256]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > PSA: Forum opinions are not directly responsible for balance changes.

>

> Bs.

>

> Forum opinions drive the balance.

>

> Already proved it once but here it goes again.

>

> BF op - BF nerfed

> Vigor op - Vigor nerfed

> Torch op - torch nerfed

> EM op - EM nerfed

> Portal op - portal nerfed

> Jaunt op - jaunt nerfed

> Ambush should required face - now it does

> MC should be. 75 - it is now.

>

> Are you gonna tell me it is just a coincidence that those precise things were the ones getting complained and next patch were addressed?

>

> Feel free to check the qq dates and patch dates.

>

 

Since I should feel free to go over QQ dates, let me just point out portal has been complained about for 3yrs prior to it's nerf. After HoT and Mesmer could fight on equal footing but also had portal. EM was complained about for the first year of PoF before nerfs, Torch actually avoided the burning nerfs (where burn ele and engi got axed that nobody complained about) and Mesmer burning got nerfed 6mths later.

 

We get a lot of balance changes that nobody asked for, and it often takes years to for things to get balanced. Maybe, just maybe some balance changes done by ArenaNet concluded the same thing that many players did too - that many busted traits are busted?

 

Why did you only link Mesmer skills as things that got nerfed and also were popularly bashed by the playerbase?

 

 

 

[phokus.8934]

There’s maybe a 1% chance of forum posts driving balance changes.

 

ANet objectively looks at what builds are being played, what rank they’re being played at and how well they do, holistically look at what is being changed on one class and how that interacts with other classes, the array of data that they have that we don’t, and which direction they want to take game play.

 

Edit: Scrapper will most likely get some changes but not from the forums. Coincidental evidence is exactly that.

[Fortus.6175]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > PSA: Forum opinions are not directly responsible for balance changes.

>

> Bs.

>

> Forum opinions drive the balance.

>

> Already proved it once but here it goes again.

>

> BF op - BF nerfed

> Vigor op - Vigor nerfed

> Torch op - torch nerfed

> EM op - EM nerfed

> Portal op - portal nerfed

> Jaunt op - jaunt nerfed

> Ambush should required face - now it does

> MC should be. 75 - it is now.

>

> Are you gonna tell me it is just a coincidence that those precise things were the ones getting complained and next patch were addressed?

>

> Feel free to check the qq dates and patch dates.

 

 

Ok, im one for the whole "power to the masses", but lets not delude ourselves here; we pretty much hold no "power" per say, in fact, you will notice that the forums are just a rehash of the same 15-20 people posting over and over again, by now everyone knows everyone, kind of like a small town, just smaller, we are simply too small of a community to hold ~~any~~ THAT power, we are just very vocal and repeating what plenty of players are saying in-game/reddit, just that we bother to find this place, log in using our credential in another website from main, and then get all emotional when someone disagrees with our point. (this place is more of a placebo for people to vent their frustrations, btw, I dont want to ruin it for you, but cities already do this, many of the cross-street buttons in big cities are "placebos", presssing them does nothing, they have a cable going nowhere, the green light for walking across the street would light up either way whether you did it or not, but pressing that button relieves stress and gives you control and "power" over that situation, same for the close elevator buttons)

 

 

If Devs listened to forums in general, every class would have a 90 secs evade on 5 secs CD move that lets you free cast, a button that does 90% max hp of the enemy damage every 1/2 secs, unblockable, preceded by an unblockable stun... You get my drift.

 

 

My guess is that Anet looks at stats (well duh) of people playing or not playing certain classes, what they do when they encounter these other classes, builds et all, and whether their PvP gametime increases/decreases after said encounters, trends in class changes including single player's trends like for example an X class main with a fixed % win rate who is consistently playing said class all the time, and suddenly makes a 180 turn and plays this other Y class out of the blue and his % win rate skyrockets/tanks (like someone going from ele to soulbeast, I went from 54-58 w%rt to 73-76 w%rt overnight basically, or someone who plays holo/spellbreaker/mirage/soulbeast changing to rev or ele and suddenly they start tanking, even when they are knowledgeable with the class).

 

Now I wont pretend to say I was the reason some builds were nerfed, but no snowflake ever feels responsible for the avalanche. Every hour you put into learning a class you think might be too strong, is an hour of feedback you are giving the devs. I'm sure somewhere in their database they have the records of people like me who one day said "screw it" and picked up another class and suddenly they skyrocketed in the ranks (funnily enough, I played stance power soulbeast, and that was the one hit the hardest, while boonbeast's core elements remained extremely strong, so maybe my time playing it did do something substantial). Problem is; I cant be bothered to play engis (https://imgur.com/pYehU10), I dont like their fantasy in a magical MMO, I dont like technology in a magic MMO, I dont enjoy wet-noodles (wont ever play weaver again, I thought I was gonna snooze half od the time), but I know what is best to prove a point.

 

edit: i dont know how I manage to do it every time.... I try to make the wall minimal, only a few lines, yet I always end up explaining my points to the point that even now as I write this edit it is already coming out too long.....

[Redavv.2643]

I was playing Scrapper before the patch, with success its not the patch that made scrapper a good build, rather than it got noticed now after the patch only major difference for me is the way that gyros work. atleast that is my opinion

[BlackTruth.6813]

That's why scrapper's condition cleanse should stay and force people to play an honest power meta, that's a lot better than last season, If anything is getting nerfed, please not the condition cleanse.

[Chaith.8256]

> @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> That's why scrapper's condition cleanse should stay and force people to play an honest power meta, that's a lot better than last season,

 

Yeah I don't know how many Scrappers will be running Purge Gyro because without a second stunbreak and second stability it can be rough. You can't assume the enemy Scrapper will be invulnerable to conditions.

 

Scrapper can be either anti-condi or survive vs. CC reliably. No EU Scrappers seem to favor condi removal I've noticed too

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > PSA: Forum opinions are not directly responsible for balance changes.

> >

> > Bs.

> >

> > Forum opinions drive the balance.

> >

> > Already proved it once but here it goes again.

> >

> > BF op - BF nerfed

> > Vigor op - Vigor nerfed

> > Torch op - torch nerfed

> > EM op - EM nerfed

> > Portal op - portal nerfed

> > Jaunt op - jaunt nerfed

> > Ambush should required face - now it does

> > MC should be. 75 - it is now.

> >

> > Are you gonna tell me it is just a coincidence that those precise things were the ones getting complained and next patch were addressed?

> >

> > Feel free to check the qq dates and patch dates.

> >

>

> Since I should feel free to go over QQ dates, let me just point out portal has been complained about for 3yrs prior to it's nerf. After HoT and Mesmer could fight on equal footing but also had portal. EM was complained about for the first year of PoF before nerfs, Torch actually avoided the burning nerfs (where burn ele and engi got axed that nobody complained about) and Mesmer burning got nerfed 6mths later.

>

> We get a lot of balance changes that nobody asked for, and it often takes years to for things to get balanced. Maybe, just maybe some balance changes done by ArenaNet concluded the same thing that many players did too - that many busted traits are busted?

>

> Why did you only link Mesmer skills as things that got nerfed and also were popularly bashed by the playerbase?

>

>

>

 

Portal was later complained arguing that with the portal nerf mirage mobility would be fine.

Torch was indeed nerfed.

 

Popularly bashed right, key word, right before the balance patch.

 

Alright check thief forums and the unhindered combatant suggestion and check the last balance patch.

Sure it is just another coincidence.

 

And I am the delusional one...

[Chaith.8256]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> And I am the delusional one...

 

If something is bashed consistently for 6-36 months before the balance patch, it's not bashed **right** before the balance patch, that's the only incorrect/tinfoil hat thing you're trying to prove. Much more reasonable to say that ArenaNet's data gathering finally caught up to the game, and verified if complaints were of merit or not. If forum suggestions were the primary basis for balance changes, we'd see very fast nerfs/buffs. They're not fast, so yes, the idea that forum nerf/buff suggestions are directly tied to balance patches is not correctl. Like 2 posters after me have pointed out. Reply to them too please @"phokus.8934" @"Fortus.6175"

 

 

[phokus.8934]

Because like I said they base a lot of their changes based off of what the data is telling them. Blurred Frenzy was nerfed in damage and duration due to it being used in Mirage builds and thus having too much sustain.

 

The same goes for the vigor nerfs which impacted all of Mesmer. If something is overpeforming then naturally you’re going to have outrage on the forums although very misguided. ANet does take the data analytic approach, and overall health of the game in mind when balancing. Sure we can joke that they randomly nerf/buff things at times but they have data that they rely on when doing such changes.