Serious Question to Anet

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> The changes is good. Tief should die asap, if make mistake. This is part of profession - if have skill = cool, no skill - downstate asap.

 

I agree but it shouldn’t also require double the landed attacks to down players that have far more sustain given they can kill u in 2 or 3 auto attacks or one burst with dps being what it is these days. Only thing thief has that’s high dps malicious backstab and vault spam(if someone stands in one spot and doesn’t use Defensive skills lol) thief should have very high dps skills as a whole given it basically relies on evades and disengages as its defence. Initiative loss and the fact it causes every skill unusable when depleted unlike CD on other classes means the fact the same skill can be used twice in a row shouldn’t means skill dps should be low,as I’ve seen it mentioned in the past.

[kash.9213]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> The changes is good. Tief should die asap, if make mistake. This is part of profession - if have skill = cool, no skill - downstate asap.

 

If the rest of the game is progressively moving towards forgiving mechanics why single out thief as a class that should be unforgiving to the player? In any mode thieves will be playing against groups size or larger, so if thief should be that vulnerable to damage, then thieves should also have to tools to not only kill one player quickly but to be able to control and possibly kill multiple players quickly. I'm okay with that.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"kash.9213" said:

> > @"lare.5129" said:

> > The changes is good. Tief should die asap, if make mistake. This is part of profession - if have skill = cool, no skill - downstate asap.

>

> If the rest of the game is progressively moving towards forgiving mechanics why single out thief as a class that should be unforgiving to the player? In any mode thieves will be playing against groups size or larger, so if thief should be that vulnerable to damage, then thieves should also have to tools to not only kill one player quickly but to be able to control and possibly kill multiple players quickly. I'm okay with that.

 

This is how it should be ^ almost like the description arenanet gave for the class is if that was their initial intention for the class. Unfortunately because people are so whiney and easy to hurt their ego and pride that dying to a fast,fragile class that takes skill to play is often too much and leads to salt and nerf cries.because arenet listened thief now is fast,fragile with mostly garbage dps,malicious backstab excluded. And nowadays mobility, sustain and dps being raised so high on other classes exept Eli this further pushes thief into redundancy. With that said there’s more than enough thief haters to keep the class garbage and arenanet clearly don’t know how to balance a high mobility glassy class as the past shows.

[Exitus.3297]

I don't think it is fair to assume that Thief players want to have their cake and eat it too. I think the general place Thieves are coming from is that they are simply pointing out that they have less cake than other classes.

 

I tend to agree with the notion that making a mistake on a Thief is considerably more unforgiving than most classes, but the thing is that Thief players tend to be okay with this on the condition that they have the tools necessary to avoid mistakes, or to make taking risks worth it. Take that into account while also considering that ANet has been slowly but surely taking away that reward over the past many patches, with some exception, without getting much in return aside from the occasional QoL change (E.G. Backstab aftercast reduction). Do this enough and Thief players start to notice that virtually everything is more threatening than they are. Maybe they could deal with being out-damaged by a little bit due to how their kit works, but then they notice that it is quite a bit more than a little bit. They start to notice scenarios where they may have completely outplayed their opponent, only for that effort to be wasted because that opponent has access to a mechanic that makes them generally more forgiving to play. Thieves then end up facing a conundrum where they either have to continue plotting away with their build that feels like they are only tickling anything that wears anything more than cloth armor or start investing into a cheese-build that only gets enough results to make opponents angry, but not much else.

 

Keep in mind, I agree with the notion that Thieves are difficult to balance due to the dichotomy of being "bursty-squishballs". The way I have seen other games handle it is not by making them able to get that "one-shot" from stealth, but rather making it so that the "burst from stealth" is more spread out for a little bit after opening from stealth. Setting up a combo, if you will. Essentially it becomes a middle-ground where the player gets the gratification of burst while also giving their opponent some time to react to it, knowing full-well it could be a death-sentence if they don't.

 

EDIT: Grammar.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Exitus.3297" said:

> I don't think it is fair to assume that Thief players want to have their cake and eat it too. I think the general place Thieves are coming from is that they simply pointing out that have less cake to start with than other classes.

>

> I tend to agree with the notion that making a mistake on a Thief is considerably more unforgiving than on most classes, but the thing is that Thief players tend to be okay with this on the condition that they have the tools necessary to avoid mistakes, or to make taking risks worth it. Take that into account while also considering that ANet has been slowly taking away that reward slowly but surely over the past many of patches, with some exception, without getting much in return aside from the occasional QoL change (E.G. Backstab aftercast reduction). Do this enough and Thief players start to notice that virtually everything is more threatening than they are. Maybe they could deal with being out-damaged by a little bit due to how their kit works, but then they notice that it is quite a bit more than a little bit. They start to notice scenarios where they may have completely outplayed their opponent, only for that effort to be wasted because that opponent has access to a mechanic that makes them generally more forgiving to play. Thieves then end up facing a conundrum where they either have to continue plotting away with their build that feels like they are only tickling anything that wears anything more than cloth armor or start investing into a cheese-build that only gets enough results to make opponents angry, but not much else.

>

> Keep in mind, I agree with the notion that Thieves are difficult to balance due to the dichotomy of being "bursty-squishballs". The way I have seen other games handle it is not by making them able to get that "one-shot" from stealth, but rather making it so that the "burst from stealth" is more spread out for a little bit after opening from stealth. Setting up a combo, if you will. Essentially it becomes a middle-ground where the player gets the gratification of burst while also giving their opponent some time to react to it, knowing full-well it could be a death-sentence if they don't.

 

Well said!

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > > I've found a strange kinship with Obtena here, because I'm seeing him try to convince the guardian forum that they're wrong about Righteous Indignation, and seeing similar blowback from players who just don't like it. All my admiration for his tenacity aside, I do not have the strength to carry on as such.

> > >

> > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > being weaker in a straight brawl is perfectly fine, if they have superior mobility, stealth and burst and are allowed to use them. currently they are not in WvW.

> > > >

> > >

> > > This... is part of the idea that I am trying to convey. It is _design philosophy_ that I talking about. All of these other nitpicks, tangents, and distractions aside, I have but one question for you: **Do you understand what I am saying?** From the first post I made in this thread: do you get it?

> > >

> > > I do not care if you think thieves are currently too weak. That is an aside.

> > > I do not care what other advantages another class may have. That is an aside.

> > > I do not care if another class has one or more skills similar to the thief. That is an aside.

> > > I do not care if thieves do not currently have an identity. That is an aside.

> > > I do not care about the specifics of the current sPVP format. That is an aside.

> > > I do not care about the specifics of the current WvW format. That is an aside.

> > > I do not care how easily or hard you think it is to access these skills. That is an aside.

> > > I do not care how much your feelings get hurt by losing a fight. That is utterly irrelevant.

> > >

> > > Do you, or do you not, agree that it is unfair design to have a class that can always chase down another player and easily kill them while being completely invisible? If you do, then you understand why thief balance is such a precarious issue. If you do not, only then do I demand an explanation.

> >

> > Do realize that most people still playing this game are running purely on power-fantasy, most of these people playing abusable cheese with no regard for the interactions and skill in the PvP modes; those players generally all quit with the blatant powercreep with the expansions. It's the same in every subsection. People insisting Mirage Cloak was fine, that ranger needs more buffs, and so on. Most posts are frankly total BS.

> >

> > Like the person complaining above how thief has only been nerfed yet neglects tons of CDR across several utilities, sword AA being buffed by 40%, Unload being buffed by almost 35%, and several skills facing initiative cost changes and other minor buffs. Did people forget that Dagger AA out-damaged everything the thief otherwise had, making casting skills pointless when trying to opt for kill pressure, thanks to nearly a 30% buff previously?

> >

> > When people complain about the thief being weak... it's going to be so long as cheesy, un-fun builds like SA Deadeye exist. Otherwise, the onus is on the other professions being downright braindead and uncounterable. It's supposed to be a class with a high skill ceiling, and anyone making the claim most of the OP's today, and builds like DA DE required a lot of skill to pull off are deluding themselves.

>

> Patch Note history,

> Sword:

> * Jan 26, 2016 Sword Auto attack has the attack point of the skill increased by .16 seconds. I guess this means the time when it registeres hits has been pushed back. Not significant

> * Mar 27 2018 Reduced Damage overall by 14%, this means the whole auto chain. No details on what per attack hit was. Judging by Dagger's auto chain it's likely massive hits for the first two blows.

> Summery, Information is not correct according to actual sources.

>

> They hurt skill 2 to prevent the thief from popping in and out too quickly. Removed the stun break on Shadow Return and gave it a delay. The skill also had infinite range for some reason, which we all agree was kitten.

> They increased the damage to 3 and made it unblockable. But the damage is only increased if the target does not have boons. Good luck.

>

> So... that three.... Which is where the big kitten damage is supposed to be.

> Flanking Strike:

> * Oct 2012 First Strike is Unblockable.

> * April 2013 Now Evade and delivers one strike. Reduced ini cost from 4 to 3. Now toggles for 5 seconds to second skill. Improved reliability of flanking strike (one of the few rare bug fixes thieves get that benefits them.) (removed unblockable by the way)

> * Aug 2013 Removed a redundant damage fact.....?

> * April 2014 updated skill facts to show bonus damage from combined training (no longer exists).

> * Sep 2014 Skill must now succuesfully hit target to switch to second skill. Increased in cost back to 4 again.

> * Jun 2015 Dual wield skill buff stuff. No longer get benefits from movement speed.

> * Aug 2017 Now unblockable again.

>

> I don't feel like listing the history of the second skill. In short...

> It got the cost adjusted from 1ini to 2 ini. Then back down to 1 again.

> Two years after introduction it now steals two instead of 1 boon.

> And the cost went back up to 2 ini again.

> And then it got a damage bonus of 20% only if the target doesn't have any boons in 2017... which is long after the fact that most classes can generate boons like crazy. So the damage spike is rarely seen.

>

> Long story short... Total skill cost is 6.

>

> Unload:

> * Sep 2014 Increased speed of the skill by 20.

> * Jun 2015 Specialization update *ALL SKILLS CATEGORIZED AS DUAL WIELD* damage increase by 5%

> * sep 2015 Increased damage increased per shot by 26%

> * April 106 Skill now grants 1 might for 8 seconds for striking an enemy.

> * May 2016 Skill now refunds 2 ini if ALL ATTACKS HITS

> * Jul 2018 July, Initiative cost between game modes split. PvP and WvW costs 6 ini and refunds only 1 if all attacks hits. PvE cost is 5 but refunds 2 if all attacks hit.

> Summary: Unload did get buffed, so you're not wrong. However, no one is using it, and I guess Guess anet doesn't understand why. The initiative cost is high, the refund only counts if all attacks deal damage (Which they never do in pvp). And in a pool of 12 (15 with Trickery) you're only casting this twice before being unable to do anything else. What made the skill dependable in PvP was Ricochet. The skill only had one self synergy and that was with black powder... which the combo all together cost 11 out of your 12 initiative. But with ricochet, you had a decent chance of the bullet bouncing off to other targets and applying combo field effects.

>

> Initiative Mitigation, most of it you need to trait for.

> 1 every 10 seconds from Infiltrators signet. **IF** a thief carries it, its not for the passive.

> Upper hand in Acrobatics. 1 ini for a single evade every 5 seconds.

> Trickery Trait: Kleptomaniac: Stealing restores 2 ini.

> Trickery Trait Preparedness: Changes ini pool from 12 to 15.

> Trickery Trait Quick Pockets: restores only 3 ini for swapping weapons.

> Shadow Arts Trait Shadow's Rejuvination: 1 initiative for every 3 seconds in stealth...

>

> So... as you can see... cost is kinda important to a thief. And it usually decides what we do and what we don't use. Also the play style. And with the poor reward you get for actually fighting... you can see why thieves go for certain traits. We can only use two or three skills at most before running out. Which is why the Auto attack damage was a huge concern.

 

And many other skills, like Body Shot, were also buffed.

 

Initiative costs are okay to be fair high if the skills are high-impact.

 

Which they used to be, and against anything but the FoTM/optimal builds, they still very much are.

 

The thief's plight is the powercreep on other professions; they do too much today and can't be quickly dispatched and/or outplayed like is supposed to happen on thief as a whole. Comparable builds are cheese because that's what it takes.

 

I'm really sick and tired of explaining why answering the power of other professions with more power on the thief is bad. The thief's very fundamental design prohibits it alongside most of the other non-optimal builds in the game being overly-punished as a consequence. I'm not saying bad builds, either - just non-optimal.

 

Like, you can buff the thief to hell and back and it won't mean anything in the context of the potency of existing bunkers - particularly due to their ease of play - unless you make thief numerically busted such that they at higher skill echelons become better than anything else in the game by a wide margin, which ultimately benefits nobody in the end.

 

It comes down to the other professions. They *have* to be nerfed.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

if A class is good but other classes are powercrept around it making it redundant than it is no longer good in comparison. Sure I’d be great if other classes were depowercrept but it’s pretty obvious that isn’t gonna happen so bringing thief up to the level of most other classes is far better if the alternative is to leave it where it is now,just my two cents.

[getalifeturd.8139]

It's not even just that other classes have got better in comparison to thief. Thief has got worse than it previously was simply because Arenanet nerfed our old traits and skills too.

 

While we used to be able to avoid damage by evasion now we're punished for it: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant

 

While we used to be able to avoid zergs through stealth now we're punished for it: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marked

Detected! is an effect applied to players that enter stealth while they are marked. If they are stealthed for more than 2 seconds while detected, they will become revealed. Exiting stealth before this effect expires will remove this effect.

 

While we used to have better mobility than most classes now there's mounts: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw

It also has 3 dodges and is immune to CC along with the fact it has 10,972 health which is almost as much as a full berserker's armor geared thief.

 

[coopoor.2631]

i played a thief dont really care for the stealth kind of use less in this game from whaqt i read above the general idea i get is a thief is broken char right from the start i tend to want to agree but dont agree flawed char yes in a game where there is no true damage dealing or healing class everything is the same its more how well you know how to play your char. now back to question am i disappointed in thief gw2 could have done a better job with the chars an game as a whole still kinda of amazes me the the game is called guild wars an yet on a server no guilds battle between each other for map lands instead we have w vs w which is follow the leader the game to me lacks competition on a guild lvl an thats to me is sad

[lare.5129]

> @"kash.9213" said:

> If the rest of the game is progressively moving towards forgiving mechanics why single out thief as a class that should be unforgiving to the player?

because I think this is past of choose. Want hard-mode and only skill domination can help ? so welcome.

 

> In any mode thieves will be playing against groups size or larger, so if thief should be that vulnerable to damage, then thieves should also have to tools to not only kill one player quickly but to be able to control and possibly kill multiple players quickly. I'm okay with that.

thief should be like glass. I and don't see any problem if he can't kill 2 playres in one moment. This is not "warrior"

[lare.5129]

> @"coopoor.2631" said:

> we have w vs w which is follow the leader the game to me lacks competition on a guild lvl an thats to me is sad

Then I come from job I want have in relax mode www run with lead or jon sPvp .. so it is very ok.

For people who want skill domination, pain and gain, and versus, exist word - "www roaming". And thief is good choose for that.

Ofc I think thief should be have some nerf, dual pistol should not stack might so fast, ant etc, but his is another story.

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"coopoor.2631" said:

> > we have w vs w which is follow the leader the game to me lacks competition on a guild lvl an thats to me is sad

> Then I come from job I want have in relax mode www run with lead or jon sPvp .. so it is very ok.

> For people who want skill domination, pain and gain, and versus, exist word - "www roaming". And thief is good choose for that.

> Ofc I think thief should be have some nerf, dual pistol should not stack might so fast, ant etc, but his is another story.

>

Lmao duel pistol nerf, thief should be glass but not as good as a warrior at fighting,thief should be hard mode? U either are trolling or have far less grasp of the game than u think and shouldn’t be posting. U come across like yeah thief should be glassy and hard to play as it is,nerf pistol/pistol (no one uses cuz it’s garbage in PvP)

Sry but ur post ridiculous.

 

[TwiceDead.1963]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> The thief's plight is the powercreep on other professions; they do too much today and can't be quickly dispatched and/or outplayed like is supposed to happen on thief as a whole. Comparable builds are cheese because that's what it takes.

>

> I'm really sick and tired of explaining why answering the power of other professions with more power on the thief is bad. The thief's very fundamental design prohibits it alongside most of the other non-optimal builds in the game being overly-punished as a consequence. I'm not saying bad builds, either - just non-optimal.

>

> Like, you can buff the thief to hell and back and it won't mean anything in the context of the potency of existing bunkers - particularly due to their ease of play - unless you make thief numerically busted such that they at higher skill echelons become better than anything else in the game by a wide margin, which ultimately benefits nobody in the end.

>

> It comes down to the other professions. They *have* to be nerfed.

^

All of this.

 

This is the problem in the PvP scene right now. Thief already has High Burst, high mobility and the most important of all: The ability to pick their fights, to guarantee they have the initiative and the best capability to disengage from an unfavorable situation. As long as they have these they can't really be given anything else. If you give thieves stability, barriers or outstanding brawl potential otherwise, Anets answer to that will probably be to buff every other professions defenses to survive a thiefs burst. The cycle repeats, the powercreep goes on and we will NEVER get out of the hole that's been dug.

 

The permastealth thing, Deadeye or otherwise is personally something I think has to go as it was never the intention of this games stealth mechanic, you were always supposed to weave in and out of stealth in semi-predictable time-windows that left a good player capable of making good guesses of when a high burst might be landing. The kind of freedom perma-stealth gives you in this game is way too strong. Other games balance perma-stealth by usually either limiting mobility or making it an engage-ability only, where you can no longer stealth afterwards. GW2 does not have such a limitation in place. You are free to do your damage and vanish completely whenever you want, and since your cooldowns are much shorter than the opponents it's already in your favor to do so. It's also un-fun to fight against so there's that.

 

Thief is actually good. It's SOLID. Good players can perform with it and get good results. Hell I am terrible in PvP, but even I have had some good fights that I won with it. I think a big problem is that the Thiefs toolkit is bleeding into the other professions, and the role of the Thief being blurred with the others. Thief may be the king of decaps, stealth and mobility right NOW, but the other classes are definitely catching up. Some even stand a very good chance of catching a thief outright not just through good situational awareness, timing and expectation, but also by being very competitive in a pursuit when the Thief is trying to reset. Even more so now in WvW after the latest update. It's no wonder people opt into stealth-heavy builds considering how much easier it is to disengage compared to a tried and true shortbow sprint.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Thiefs burst is garbage compared to warrior,holo,guard and soulbeast all while having way more sustain as well as having sustained damage and far more forgiving playstyles.I kno cuz I play them very often. Yeah the who argument of thief is good other classes are the problem being powercrept,problem is arenanet does not have a habit of toning any part of the powercreep down in any meaningful way and doubt they ever will as the usually just keep adding positives to balance stuff out which clearly works great lol so where’s that leave thief? Also thief being left weak due to its mobility and mechanics is bull shit when most classes have mobility thrown at them over the last couple yrs making all of them slightly less mobile than thief with higher burst and blocks and invulnerability skills to boot. 3 yrs ago dps may have been decent on thief but aside from MBS etc dps is a joke vs the sustain of today

[reddie.5861]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

 

> You can still outrun the weaver.

>

no you cant.. i mean unless u want thief to use shortbow (as most do) then a thief wont out run any1.

a thief dmg isnt even close to warrior burst not even talking about rampage.

 

dunno why u think thief dmg is good or op or has a burst cus far i know only burst thief has is a backstab beside that its some 11111 1 action which is nerfed also :)

[lare.5129]

if I open benchmarks on golem - thief on nr1 on small hitbox .. This is ok too ?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Yeah feel free to use zerker gear and assassins signet,than compare power zerker builds dps on other classes like soulbeast,warrior,holo etc :) and for record people will easily kno if ur full of shit with ur findings,never kno with people these days haha

[getalifeturd.8139]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> if I open benchmarks on **golem** - thief on nr1 on small hitbox .. This is ok too ?

 

You are primarily talking about PvE as I've judged from most of your posts. People are generally talking about PvP when it comes to these discussions not against a stationary inanimate object that doesn't even fight back called a **golem.**

[lare.5129]

> @"getalifeturd.8139" said:

> You are primarily talking about PvE as I've judged from most of your posts. People are generally talking about PvP when it comes to these discussions not against a stationary inanimate object that doesn't even fight back called a **golem.**

 

Primarily I talking about possobility create damage. So I think it wrong, bus we have top damage place for tief.

And how everyone can use and extent on pvp that damage, and make domination usign some factors - is personal skill, and only that. May be for raoming thief shoudl have alwasy teammate wiht some skills, may be need use some magic traits and tricks .. So current state is good for thief. And any changes is come should be only thief nerf to atract skilled people who love 'pain and gain'.

Who scared - use necro in celelstian and don't worry about that.

 

About pve - On pve I othen write 'no thiefs' and dont care what dps cout it is.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"getalifeturd.8139" said:

> > You are primarily talking about PvE as I've judged from most of your posts. People are generally talking about PvP when it comes to these discussions not against a stationary inanimate object that doesn't even fight back called a **golem.**

>

> Primarily I talking about possobility create damage. So I think it wrong, bus we have top damage place for tief.

> And how everyone can use and extent on pvp that damage, and make domination usign some factors - is personal skill, and only that. May be for raoming thief shoudl have alwasy teammate wiht some skills, may be need use some magic traits and tricks .. So current state is good for thief. And any changes is come should be only thief nerf to atract skilled people who love 'pain and gain'.

> Who scared - use necro in celelstian and don't worry about that.

>

> About pve - On pve I othen write 'no thiefs' and dont care what dps cout it is.

 

If u think thiefs damage is fine u obviously don’t play it,pls stop posting garbage on on class threads u don’t even play. Are u afraid they’ll someday get a dps buff and actually challenge ur class? In the last year I have yet to see or my self burst any class for any meaningful amount of damage using anything but MBS and staff vault. Top thief players who are far better than u or me are streaming their games calling out in real time the garbage damage as they outplay their opponent and see their go barely move,that’s with s/d and d/p yet on forums u get nonnthief players claiming they have all this damage yet no proof to show for obvious reasons lmao. I play a maurader build with zerk trinkets and infiltration runes and I do pittyfull damage on all my attacks whether it’s s/d,d/p,dd,and p/p unless it’s mbs or vault spam it’s garbage. When I play holo,soulbeast and guard I notice a huge increase in burst and dps as well all while not even prioritizing dps in the builds. Add to that much higher sustain and I’m very mobile on soulbeast.

[lare.5129]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> If u think thiefs damage is fine u obviously don’t play it,pls stop posting garbage on on class threads u don’t even play.

I am sure that damage ir to much great. And no matter me or someone play it. To check it open sc board and look on top dps on small hitbox. And now on pvp skilled thief can chance to continue that and make burst for someone like on golem.

Also be honest, and please not try common class question redirect to my or someone else personality.

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > If u think thiefs damage is fine u obviously don’t play it,pls stop posting garbage on on class threads u don’t even play.

> I am sure that damage ir to much great. And no matter me or someone play it. To check it open sc board and look on top dps on small hitbox. And now on pvp skilled thief can chance to continue that and make burst for someone like on golem.

> Also be honest, and please not try common class question redirect to my or someone else personality.

>

 

Yeah pretty sure ur looking at old DE small hit box damage that’s outdated since couple DE nerfs,DD staff is good small hit box dps on a golem that stands there while being auto’d on and to add DD staff auto’s were nerfed in 2017,still good dps since it’s braindead auto spam but nothing special compared to other power classes so not sure what ur trying to say? U trying to say thief tops dps charts still?

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"lare.5129" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > If u think thiefs damage is fine u obviously don’t play it,pls stop posting garbage on on class threads u don’t even play.

> > I am sure that damage ir to much great. And no matter me or someone play it. To check it open sc board and look on top dps on small hitbox. And now on pvp skilled thief can chance to continue that and make burst for someone like on golem.

> > Also be honest, and please not try common class question redirect to my or someone else personality.

> >

>

> Yeah pretty sure ur looking at old DE small hit box damage that’s outdated since couple DE nerfs,DD staff is good small hit box dps on a golem that stands there while being auto’d on and to add DD staff auto’s were nerfed in 2017,still good dps since it’s braindead auto spam but nothing special compared to other power classes so not sure what ur trying to say? U trying to say thief tops dps charts still?

 

thief is good on golem, tho especially deadeye has much higher ini cost and lower coefficients in spvp/WvW than they do have in PvE.

[lare.5129]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> U trying to say thief tops dps charts still?

yes it is. You can us yours favorite web page search system, and find current SC benchmarks.

Current today 1 and 2 place have thief. And own 3 position from first 5 builds.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > U trying to say thief tops dps charts still?

> yes it is. You can us yours favorite web page search system, and find current SC benchmarks.

> Current today 1 and 2 place have thief. And own 3 position from first 5 builds.

the newest benchmarks say August 2018 has there not been changes to DE? DE rifle at top and power staff DD in 4th on golem,s/d,pp,d/p are the sets I said are in need of damage buffs as they are not in line with Mom st other classes especially after the dagger auto nerf etc.also u see the stack of self buffs most classes can give them selves,u see the lack of them compared to other classes. Yeah gues not,a class is considered viable for more reasons than dps also, how often is a group glad a thiefs around for any reason other than maybe a rifle or staff auto bot on a few bosses? U can argue all u want it’s obvious when playing other classes the disparity between them and thief regarding dps on standard skills disregarding MBS etc. I played thief for a few yrs and was immediately noticeable when I switched as it is for the posters in last few days who have made threads commenting on the lack of dps on thief compared to the classes they were previously using so.