Stand The Wall.6987 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"coro.3176" said: > snips that downed auto attack looks cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tycura.1982 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Am warrior. No teleports. Feetsies are grounded. I think teleports without LOS are fine. Nerfing thief more would make them unplayable. Core guard got their burst nerfed. So teleporting one shots don't happen as much. Mes got all sorts of nerfs. Rev sword 5 has the tell of the first smack. If you don't dodge the follow up that's on you. Especially if you didn't see them coming to you as either you're not paying attention or preoccupied and they would have probably hit you anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Tempest.7584 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 > @"Sampson.2403" said: > Incisorr, I think the reason you get so much pushback isn't necessarily because of what you're saying, but how you're saying it. ^This. I fear he may have sealed his fate with "the most cyberbullied class" though. He's made some good points throughout his posts. He does get a presumption of credibility being a veteran top player (not to say he can't be wrong). If only he expressed his views in ways that didn't trigger people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incisorr.9502 Posted March 16, 2019 Author Share Posted March 16, 2019 > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > @"Punny.9210" said: > > Guard one is fine the CD and their dmg are decent > > > > just the rev one is so broken when it's played by high plat. > > > > ironically scrapper is only thing that can tank their dmg > > Let me convince you why Rev isn't broken: > > It's the only class that has a combination of an energy mechanic and cooldowns, so whilst you have to manage your cooldowns on your skill you also have to manage your energy usage. This is something NO other class has to care about and everyone else can just blow all their abilities without having to wait for energy. a class being harder to get into and to master doesn't mean that it's not OP Mirage has stamina management which is very big if you play infinite horizon because its your main dps source but it's also your defense. It has illusion management cus they also do dmg and are needed for shatters. Just because it's harder to operate a modern warship it doesn't mean it's worse than a pirate ship from the 18th century and that's why the military uses modern warships. Just because it's harder to operate a rocket it doesn't mean its slower than a car and so on. Gw2 supposedly wants to be a competitive game and im aware that this analogy is for real life stuff which is always different than a game but at the same time it serves to prove a point. Revenant might be harder to get used to but if you play the game enough and if you actually want to be competitive then you'll put the time needed and get used to it eventually.. .. and when you get used to revenant the class is just broken. It actually has infinite iframe , it has more iframes than mirage. It can stall actually forever and yes it means that it's offense will be worse cus you waste your energy defensively but you can use it in the right moment to buy time or make the most out of it. It's offense is broken beyond any reason and it's overstatted as hell and that's without even counting the fact that you can even support a revenant by converting all its conditions into boons or removing them , as a fb for example. it's harder to get into programming but it's also a better job than cleaning toilets. Gw2 wants to be balanced and fun because all games should want to be balanced and fun because that's the point of games? Well revenant isn't balanced. It stopped being balanced a long time ago. Eventually all the buffs to it add up. People keep telling me that mirage is hard counter to revenant and i keep dying to revenants, i've reached legendary many times by myself without getting carried by a duo when i actually tried and i have much better win rate in games with only good people (that means no randoms to throw) and i still can't deal with revenants because if revenant is played well there's nothing you can do. They won't pick bad engagements cus the class can chose fully what engagements to take cus it has infinite engage/disengage potential with super low cds and currently it's dmg is overstatted as hell which is what pushed it through from not so good to broken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snellibee.2761 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > @"Punny.9210" said: > > > Guard one is fine the CD and their dmg are decent > > > > > > just the rev one is so broken when it's played by high plat. > > > > > > ironically scrapper is only thing that can tank their dmg > > > > Let me convince you why Rev isn't broken: > > > > It's the only class that has a combination of an energy mechanic and cooldowns, so whilst you have to manage your cooldowns on your skill you also have to manage your energy usage. This is something NO other class has to care about and everyone else can just blow all their abilities without having to wait for energy. > > > a class being harder to get into and to master doesn't mean that it's not OP > > Mirage has stamina management which is very big if you play infinite horizon because its your main dps source but it's also your defense. It has illusion management cus they also do dmg and are needed for shatters. > > Just because it's harder to operate a modern warship it doesn't mean it's worse than a pirate ship from the 18th century and that's why the military uses modern warships. Just because it's harder to operate a rocket it doesn't mean its slower than a car and so on. Gw2 supposedly wants to be a competitive game and im aware that this analogy is for real life stuff which is always different than a game but at the same time it serves to prove a point. Revenant might be harder to get used to but if you play the game enough and if you actually want to be competitive then you'll put the time needed and get used to it eventually.. > .. and when you get used to revenant the class is just broken. It actually has infinite iframe , it has more iframes than mirage. It can stall actually forever and yes it means that it's offense will be worse cus you waste your energy defensively but you can use it in the right moment to buy time or make the most out of it. It's offense is broken beyond any reason and it's overstatted as hell and that's without even counting the fact that you can even support a revenant by converting all its conditions into boons or removing them , as a fb for example. > > it's harder to get into programming but it's also a better job than cleaning toilets. Gw2 wants to be balanced and fun because all games should want to be balanced and fun because that's the point of games? Well revenant isn't balanced. It stopped being balanced a long time ago. Eventually all the buffs to it add up. People keep telling me that mirage is hard counter to revenant and i keep dying to revenants, i've reached legendary many times by myself without getting carried by a duo when i actually tried and i have much better win rate in games with only good people (that means no randoms to throw) and i still can't deal with revenants because if revenant is played well there's nothing you can do. They won't pick bad engagements cus the class can chose fully what engagements to take cus it has infinite engage/disengage potential with super low cds and currently it's dmg is overstatted as hell which is what pushed it through from not so good to broken > > Revenant is GOOD when you're skilled in using it, but it's not overpowered at all. For something to be overpowered it needs to be obvious in how good it is. You don't need to put effort to accomplish something when it is overpowered. Overpowered means you can do something in a much easier and efficient way than something else can do it. Boonbeast is overpowered because it is EASY to accomplish something that is HARD to accomplish on let's say Weaver. The reason Mirage was being called overpowered is because how EASY it is to accomplish the same thing other classes need to work HARD for. By your logic, in CSGO, hitting a headshot wich instantly kills an enemy would be overpowered. Because it instantly gets rid of someone. But it isn't because it takes SKILL to accomplish this headshot. You need to learn the difference between something that requires SKILL and is good and something that is EASY and is good. Revenants like Odlando, Vebryan and Sikieki are way over your league. They're completely outskilling you wich is why they're so high on the leaderboards. These players aren't this good because the class is carrying them to this level. They're this good because their skill is carrying them to this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snellibee.2761 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 > @"Tycura.1982" said: > Rev sword 5 has the tell of the first smack. If you don't dodge the follow up that's on you. Especially if you didn't see them coming to you as either you're not paying attention or preoccupied and they would have probably hit you anyway. ^This. Also sword 5 can 6/10 times be evaded by just stepping through the rev when he shadowsteps to you. it's actually really easy to not have the second part of the skill hit on you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 To the guy that said thief can't attack while evading once ds is over unlike mirage - not true. Sd 3 is an evade, and here is where you argue that the attack is at the end of the evade frame to which I respond almost all attacks mirage does have a cast time longer than the evade, so it's the same. That's not to talk how ds gets refreshed tons of times. Thief has more evades and more attack while evading than mirage. It's not even a contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > To the guy that said thief can't attack while evading once ds is over unlike mirage - not true. > Sd 3 is an evade, and here is where you argue that the attack is at the end of the evade frame to which I respond almost all attacks mirage does have a cast time longer than the evade, so it's the same. > > That's not to talk how ds gets refreshed tons of times. > Thief has more evades and more attack while evading than mirage. It's not even a contest. Dude give it up lmao mirage is widely known as a top if not top 1v1/1vX along side soulbeast,dont compare ur bloated fighting spec to thief a widely known +1 class (for a reason) as if it’s even in the same league lmao. Ontop mirage has the mobility and tele’s to outshine thieves in a lot of +1 scenarios lol their only role other than decapping which mirage can do easily as well,soulbeast are included in this. The blind bias is ridiculous. I like thiefs and I can say their still slightly more mobile than other classes but some classes not by much these days. The have tones of evades for sure but that’s their ONLY real defence other than disengaging while other classes have a lot of evades,invulnerability and block skills ontop of sustain driven traits and mirage is included in that list.ur class got nerfed a bit and yeah in some ways not needed and arenet coulda made some more appropriate nerf choices had they listened more to some of the legitimate suggestions SOME mesmer mains offered but in the end mirage is still very strong class as a whole and in no way requires buffing or constant complaints about the state their in,being better off than most classes. I swear mesmer players have been so op for soo long they got used to it and now anytime their somewhat in line with other classes their class is soposedly ruined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > To the guy that said thief can't attack while evading once ds is over unlike mirage - not true. > > Sd 3 is an evade, and here is where you argue that the attack is at the end of the evade frame to which I respond almost all attacks mirage does have a cast time longer than the evade, so it's the same. > > > > That's not to talk how ds gets refreshed tons of times. > > Thief has more evades and more attack while evading than mirage. It's not even a contest. > > Dude give it up lmao mirage is widely known as a top if not top 1v1/1vX along side soulbeast,dont compare ur bloated fighting spec to thief a widely known +1 class (for a reason) as if it’s even in the same league lmao. Post nerfs I doubt you're going to see too many 1vX mirages anymore. Even people like Shorts have abandoned mesmer for Spellbreaker now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foste.3098 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 > @"incisorr.9502" said: > - I might be wrong here but i dont remember thief having poison on steal back when the game released, nor daze, those were traits added later and when steal was designed they didn't expect the skill to put a heal debuff (poison) while also soft-ccing and RIPPING BOONS (that was also added later) Actually all of the on steal traits were there from beta in some form or another: Mug was in the game since day 1 and it was even more batshit insane. Mug use to not heal you but only do damage and was able to crit; i remember doing 5k+ crits from mug alone in spvp. Serpent's Touch (the poison minor trait) was in the game since day 1 as well and only ever got changed when the trait system got redesigned and conditions became stackable. Bountiful theft was also in the game since day 1, and it used to give 15 sec of vigor as well as removing 2 boons (in one of the games betas [can't remember if it was open or closed] it gave protection instead and remove boons). Eventually it got number adjustments and was later buffed to steal boons instead because no one used trickery. Sleight of hand was also in the game since day 1 but it only dazed for 1 sec, than it got buffed to reduce steal cd because no one used it, in fact no one used to go further in to trickery than 15 points for preparedness (old trait system which allowed you to partially go in to trait lines) for preparedness. Actually the only on steal trait that got re designed was improvisation, it went from a bundle trait (hence the name) to a steal trait to better fit the class. So yes you are wrong on all accounts and steal was designed with these traits in mind, but i agree that the game could stand to get changes in regards to the power of instant cast skills and traits (which anet seams to be doing slowly as evidenced by the fact they made almost all damage proc traits unable to crit). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snellibee.2761 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > To the guy that said thief can't attack while evading once ds is over unlike mirage - not true. > > > Sd 3 is an evade, and here is where you argue that the attack is at the end of the evade frame to which I respond almost all attacks mirage does have a cast time longer than the evade, so it's the same. > > > > > > That's not to talk how ds gets refreshed tons of times. > > > Thief has more evades and more attack while evading than mirage. It's not even a contest. > > > > Dude give it up lmao mirage is widely known as a top if not top 1v1/1vX along side soulbeast,dont compare ur bloated fighting spec to thief a widely known +1 class (for a reason) as if it’s even in the same league lmao. > > Post nerfs I doubt you're going to see too many 1vX mirages anymore. Even people like Shorts have abandoned mesmer for Spellbreaker now. > Pretty sure shorts played a build on mirage that barely changed post patch. Didn't he play power mirage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > To the guy that said thief can't attack while evading once ds is over unlike mirage - not true. > > > > Sd 3 is an evade, and here is where you argue that the attack is at the end of the evade frame to which I respond almost all attacks mirage does have a cast time longer than the evade, so it's the same. > > > > > > > > That's not to talk how ds gets refreshed tons of times. > > > > Thief has more evades and more attack while evading than mirage. It's not even a contest. > > > > > > Dude give it up lmao mirage is widely known as a top if not top 1v1/1vX along side soulbeast,dont compare ur bloated fighting spec to thief a widely known +1 class (for a reason) as if it’s even in the same league lmao. > > > > Post nerfs I doubt you're going to see too many 1vX mirages anymore. Even people like Shorts have abandoned mesmer for Spellbreaker now. > > > > Pretty sure shorts played a build on mirage that barely changed post patch. Didn't he play power mirage? He played both power and condition mirage pretty evenly. Axe+Pistol or Torch absolutely got hit hard the last patch. Though in his words "Power Mirage is bad. It's just Zeromis that makes it look good." You're welcome to watch him switch to Spellbreaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incisorr.9502 Posted March 16, 2019 Author Share Posted March 16, 2019 > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > @"Punny.9210" said: > > > > Guard one is fine the CD and their dmg are decent > > > > > > > > just the rev one is so broken when it's played by high plat. > > > > > > > > ironically scrapper is only thing that can tank their dmg > > > > > > Let me convince you why Rev isn't broken: > > > > > > It's the only class that has a combination of an energy mechanic and cooldowns, so whilst you have to manage your cooldowns on your skill you also have to manage your energy usage. This is something NO other class has to care about and everyone else can just blow all their abilities without having to wait for energy. > > > > > > a class being harder to get into and to master doesn't mean that it's not OP > > > > Mirage has stamina management which is very big if you play infinite horizon because its your main dps source but it's also your defense. It has illusion management cus they also do dmg and are needed for shatters. > > > > Just because it's harder to operate a modern warship it doesn't mean it's worse than a pirate ship from the 18th century and that's why the military uses modern warships. Just because it's harder to operate a rocket it doesn't mean its slower than a car and so on. Gw2 supposedly wants to be a competitive game and im aware that this analogy is for real life stuff which is always different than a game but at the same time it serves to prove a point. Revenant might be harder to get used to but if you play the game enough and if you actually want to be competitive then you'll put the time needed and get used to it eventually.. > > .. and when you get used to revenant the class is just broken. It actually has infinite iframe , it has more iframes than mirage. It can stall actually forever and yes it means that it's offense will be worse cus you waste your energy defensively but you can use it in the right moment to buy time or make the most out of it. It's offense is broken beyond any reason and it's overstatted as hell and that's without even counting the fact that you can even support a revenant by converting all its conditions into boons or removing them , as a fb for example. > > > > it's harder to get into programming but it's also a better job than cleaning toilets. Gw2 wants to be balanced and fun because all games should want to be balanced and fun because that's the point of games? Well revenant isn't balanced. It stopped being balanced a long time ago. Eventually all the buffs to it add up. People keep telling me that mirage is hard counter to revenant and i keep dying to revenants, i've reached legendary many times by myself without getting carried by a duo when i actually tried and i have much better win rate in games with only good people (that means no randoms to throw) and i still can't deal with revenants because if revenant is played well there's nothing you can do. They won't pick bad engagements cus the class can chose fully what engagements to take cus it has infinite engage/disengage potential with super low cds and currently it's dmg is overstatted as hell which is what pushed it through from not so good to broken > > > > > > Revenant is GOOD when you're skilled in using it, but it's not overpowered at all. For something to be overpowered it needs to be obvious in how good it is. You don't need to put effort to accomplish something when it is overpowered. Overpowered means you can do something in a much easier and efficient way than something else can do it. > Boonbeast is overpowered because it is EASY to accomplish something that is HARD to accomplish on let's say Weaver. > > The reason Mirage was being called overpowered is because how EASY it is to accomplish the same thing other classes need to work HARD for. > > By your logic, in CSGO, hitting a headshot wich instantly kills an enemy would be overpowered. Because it instantly gets rid of someone. But it isn't because it takes SKILL to accomplish this headshot. > > You need to learn the difference between something that requires SKILL and is good and something that is EASY and is good. > > Revenants like Odlando, Vebryan and Sikieki are way over your league. They're completely outskilling you wich is why they're so high on the leaderboards. These players aren't this good because the class is carrying them to this level. They're this good because their skill is carrying them to this level. ` only difference is that in CS everyone can headshot and in gw2 not every class can, and it's an rpg and people play different classes and like different stuff so "reroll to revenant" argument doesn't work. I don't like revenant's role and gameplay and i didn't like them even before revenant was op. also odlando isnt a revenant but u wouldnt know because you're a low plat guy (i know cus i've seen u a few times) and u have no clue how high elo usually goes vebryan isnt good at all and sikieiki i've barely met plus i don't know how good he is when he just shows up behind 4 walls and 1shots me and there are 30 other random revenants that can do the same stuff. The only way i can tell if a revenant is good or not is by how much they can stall when focused, good ones can stall / disengage almost forever (unless they stay on 1 point in which case they cant but if they keep moving then it's all gucci) also mirage was never "easy to accomplish "stuff with and the lack of mirages in the top of the leaderboards was a proof for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > To the guy that said thief can't attack while evading once ds is over unlike mirage - not true. > > > > > Sd 3 is an evade, and here is where you argue that the attack is at the end of the evade frame to which I respond almost all attacks mirage does have a cast time longer than the evade, so it's the same. > > > > > > > > > > That's not to talk how ds gets refreshed tons of times. > > > > > Thief has more evades and more attack while evading than mirage. It's not even a contest. > > > > > > > > Dude give it up lmao mirage is widely known as a top if not top 1v1/1vX along side soulbeast,dont compare ur bloated fighting spec to thief a widely known +1 class (for a reason) as if it’s even in the same league lmao. > > > > > > Post nerfs I doubt you're going to see too many 1vX mirages anymore. Even people like Shorts have abandoned mesmer for Spellbreaker now. > > > > > > > Pretty sure shorts played a build on mirage that barely changed post patch. Didn't he play power mirage? > > He played both power and condition mirage pretty evenly. Axe+Pistol or Torch absolutely got hit hard the last patch. Though in his words "Power Mirage is bad. It's just Zeromis that makes it look good." > > You're welcome to watch him switch to Spellbreaker. > I'm friend with a guy who is nuts about dueling other power mesmers, you name one power mesmer and chances are he had a duel with him already (EU) and according to him there are two power mirages above everyone else, one of them is jazz, the other is thalia. I've to agree with shorts here, power mirage is bad, only certain people such as the ones mentioned before can make it work, last year nerfs were overkill, everyone, except some thieves like the one that said power mirage counters thieves and later didn't respond to dueling challenge , know this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > To the guy that said thief can't attack while evading once ds is over unlike mirage - not true. > > > > > > Sd 3 is an evade, and here is where you argue that the attack is at the end of the evade frame to which I respond almost all attacks mirage does have a cast time longer than the evade, so it's the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not to talk how ds gets refreshed tons of times. > > > > > > Thief has more evades and more attack while evading than mirage. It's not even a contest. > > > > > > > > > > Dude give it up lmao mirage is widely known as a top if not top 1v1/1vX along side soulbeast,dont compare ur bloated fighting spec to thief a widely known +1 class (for a reason) as if it’s even in the same league lmao. > > > > > > > > Post nerfs I doubt you're going to see too many 1vX mirages anymore. Even people like Shorts have abandoned mesmer for Spellbreaker now. > > > > > > > > > > Pretty sure shorts played a build on mirage that barely changed post patch. Didn't he play power mirage? > > > > He played both power and condition mirage pretty evenly. Axe+Pistol or Torch absolutely got hit hard the last patch. Though in his words "Power Mirage is bad. It's just Zeromis that makes it look good." > > > > You're welcome to watch him switch to Spellbreaker. > > > I'm friend with a guy who is nuts about dueling other power mesmers, you name one power mesmer and chances are he had a duel with him already (EU) and according to him there are two power mirages above everyone else, one of them is jazz, the other is thalia. > > I've to agree with shorts here, power mirage is bad, only certain people such as the ones mentioned before can make it work, last year nerfs were overkill, everyone, except some thieves like the one that said power mirage counters thieves and later didn't respond to dueling challenge , know this. Well maybe those mesmers need to git gud like Jazz, power mes is good if played at high skill! Edit: Yes Jazz is very very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > To the guy that said thief can't attack while evading once ds is over unlike mirage - not true. > > > > > > > Sd 3 is an evade, and here is where you argue that the attack is at the end of the evade frame to which I respond almost all attacks mirage does have a cast time longer than the evade, so it's the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not to talk how ds gets refreshed tons of times. > > > > > > > Thief has more evades and more attack while evading than mirage. It's not even a contest. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dude give it up lmao mirage is widely known as a top if not top 1v1/1vX along side soulbeast,dont compare ur bloated fighting spec to thief a widely known +1 class (for a reason) as if it’s even in the same league lmao. > > > > > > > > > > Post nerfs I doubt you're going to see too many 1vX mirages anymore. Even people like Shorts have abandoned mesmer for Spellbreaker now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pretty sure shorts played a build on mirage that barely changed post patch. Didn't he play power mirage? > > > > > > He played both power and condition mirage pretty evenly. Axe+Pistol or Torch absolutely got hit hard the last patch. Though in his words "Power Mirage is bad. It's just Zeromis that makes it look good." > > > > > > You're welcome to watch him switch to Spellbreaker. > > > > > I'm friend with a guy who is nuts about dueling other power mesmers, you name one power mesmer and chances are he had a duel with him already (EU) and according to him there are two power mirages above everyone else, one of them is jazz, the other is thalia. > > > > I've to agree with shorts here, power mirage is bad, only certain people such as the ones mentioned before can make it work, last year nerfs were overkill, everyone, except some thieves like the one that said power mirage counters thieves and later didn't respond to dueling challenge , know this. > > Well maybe those mesmers need to git gud like Jazz, power mes is good if played at high skill! > > Edit: Yes Jazz is very very good. > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > To the guy that said thief can't attack while evading once ds is over unlike mirage - not true. > > > > > > > Sd 3 is an evade, and here is where you argue that the attack is at the end of the evade frame to which I respond almost all attacks mirage does have a cast time longer than the evade, so it's the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not to talk how ds gets refreshed tons of times. > > > > > > > Thief has more evades and more attack while evading than mirage. It's not even a contest. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dude give it up lmao mirage is widely known as a top if not top 1v1/1vX along side soulbeast,dont compare ur bloated fighting spec to thief a widely known +1 class (for a reason) as if it’s even in the same league lmao. > > > > > > > > > > Post nerfs I doubt you're going to see too many 1vX mirages anymore. Even people like Shorts have abandoned mesmer for Spellbreaker now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pretty sure shorts played a build on mirage that barely changed post patch. Didn't he play power mirage? > > > > > > He played both power and condition mirage pretty evenly. Axe+Pistol or Torch absolutely got hit hard the last patch. Though in his words "Power Mirage is bad. It's just Zeromis that makes it look good." > > > > > > You're welcome to watch him switch to Spellbreaker. > > > > > I'm friend with a guy who is nuts about dueling other power mesmers, you name one power mesmer and chances are he had a duel with him already (EU) and according to him there are two power mirages above everyone else, one of them is jazz, the other is thalia. > > > > I've to agree with shorts here, power mirage is bad, only certain people such as the ones mentioned before can make it work, last year nerfs were overkill, everyone, except some thieves like the one that said power mirage counters thieves and later didn't respond to dueling challenge , know this. > > Well maybe those mesmers need to git gud like Jazz, power mes is good if played at high skill! > > Edit: Yes Jazz is very very good. Now that you mention it, yes, since the arguing changed from balance should not target the top players only (before mirage nerf) to balance should target top players (when Scrapper is at risk) like you pointed out on other thread, yes, mesmers need to git gud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylonn.5027 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > @"Punny.9210" said: > > > > > Guard one is fine the CD and their dmg are decent > > > > > > > > > > just the rev one is so broken when it's played by high plat. > > > > > > > > > > ironically scrapper is only thing that can tank their dmg > > > > > > > > Let me convince you why Rev isn't broken: > > > > > > > > It's the only class that has a combination of an energy mechanic and cooldowns, so whilst you have to manage your cooldowns on your skill you also have to manage your energy usage. This is something NO other class has to care about and everyone else can just blow all their abilities without having to wait for energy. > > > > > > > > > a class being harder to get into and to master doesn't mean that it's not OP > > > > > > Mirage has stamina management which is very big if you play infinite horizon because its your main dps source but it's also your defense. It has illusion management cus they also do dmg and are needed for shatters. > > > > > > Just because it's harder to operate a modern warship it doesn't mean it's worse than a pirate ship from the 18th century and that's why the military uses modern warships. Just because it's harder to operate a rocket it doesn't mean its slower than a car and so on. Gw2 supposedly wants to be a competitive game and im aware that this analogy is for real life stuff which is always different than a game but at the same time it serves to prove a point. Revenant might be harder to get used to but if you play the game enough and if you actually want to be competitive then you'll put the time needed and get used to it eventually.. > > > .. and when you get used to revenant the class is just broken. It actually has infinite iframe , it has more iframes than mirage. It can stall actually forever and yes it means that it's offense will be worse cus you waste your energy defensively but you can use it in the right moment to buy time or make the most out of it. It's offense is broken beyond any reason and it's overstatted as hell and that's without even counting the fact that you can even support a revenant by converting all its conditions into boons or removing them , as a fb for example. > > > > > > it's harder to get into programming but it's also a better job than cleaning toilets. Gw2 wants to be balanced and fun because all games should want to be balanced and fun because that's the point of games? Well revenant isn't balanced. It stopped being balanced a long time ago. Eventually all the buffs to it add up. People keep telling me that mirage is hard counter to revenant and i keep dying to revenants, i've reached legendary many times by myself without getting carried by a duo when i actually tried and i have much better win rate in games with only good people (that means no randoms to throw) and i still can't deal with revenants because if revenant is played well there's nothing you can do. They won't pick bad engagements cus the class can chose fully what engagements to take cus it has infinite engage/disengage potential with super low cds and currently it's dmg is overstatted as hell which is what pushed it through from not so good to broken > > > > > > > > > > Revenant is GOOD when you're skilled in using it, but it's not overpowered at all. For something to be overpowered it needs to be obvious in how good it is. You don't need to put effort to accomplish something when it is overpowered. Overpowered means you can do something in a much easier and efficient way than something else can do it. > > Boonbeast is overpowered because it is EASY to accomplish something that is HARD to accomplish on let's say Weaver. > > > > The reason Mirage was being called overpowered is because how EASY it is to accomplish the same thing other classes need to work HARD for. > > > > By your logic, in CSGO, hitting a headshot wich instantly kills an enemy would be overpowered. Because it instantly gets rid of someone. But it isn't because it takes SKILL to accomplish this headshot. > > > > You need to learn the difference between something that requires SKILL and is good and something that is EASY and is good. > > > > Revenants like Odlando, Vebryan and Sikieki are way over your league. They're completely outskilling you wich is why they're so high on the leaderboards. These players aren't this good because the class is carrying them to this level. They're this good because their skill is carrying them to this level. > > ` > only difference is that in CS everyone can headshot and in gw2 not every class can, and it's an rpg and people play different classes and like different stuff so "reroll to revenant" argument doesn't work. I don't like revenant's role and gameplay and i didn't like them even before revenant was op. > > also odlando isnt a revenant but u wouldnt know because you're a low plat guy (i know cus i've seen u a few times) and u have no clue how high elo usually goes > > vebryan isnt good at all and sikieiki i've barely met plus i don't know how good he is when he just shows up behind 4 walls and 1shots me and there are 30 other random revenants that can do the same stuff. The only way i can tell if a revenant is good or not is by how much they can stall when focused, good ones can stall / disengage almost forever (unless they stay on 1 point in which case they cant but if they keep moving then it's all gucci) > > also mirage was never "easy to accomplish "stuff with and the lack of mirages in the top of the leaderboards was a proof for that Why you still keep talking as youre random noname who thinks hes good xD Truth is; you're not relevant - also your opinions are worth of nothing. You have played only 1 class in this game at mediocore level so don't expect anyone to take you seriously. Even i farmed you 5-2 when we did duels, and i killed you every single time on far during AT's and also numerous times in ranked. Your best meme after Roxas "best mesmer eu". Also, if you lose to revenant as CONDI mirage, its 100% l2p-issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shala.8352 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 lol revenant OP... its the squishiest class in the game actualy, but okay lets remove also his attacking mobility (since we already nerfed his disengaging abiliy). Also you forgot that revenant has not access to easy stab like scrapper/warrior/yolosmith/even reaper lol, all those melee class based don't suffer so much to CC chain like revenant does. And aniway revenant has already a heavy weakness, wich is condi pressure, while having others minor weakness like stealth and CC chain, why you want also to add mobility to their weakness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Substance E.4852 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 > @"incisorr.9502" said: > Skills like STEAL and PHASE TRAVERSAL and JUDGE"S INTERVENTION are just COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS. In **any** other game having skills like these is considered BROKEN, its an " ultimate " even without being able to burst but you can burst. There isn't a single game on this planet where skills like those exist and are not considered ludicrously broken and usually have huge cooldown or some drawbacks except Gw2. Those skills are a relic of an ancient design and the game has evolved way past it and that's why they need to change. Pretty much the only disagreeable thing. These aren't relics of any kind. What they are is incredibly bad game design by people trying to shoehorn "frame by frame" fighting games mechanics into an action rpg. Dying because you didn't block at the exact precise millisecond is perfectly fine in a game meant to be played in LAN tournaments in a sterile 1v1 setting. It's hot garbage in a game with piss poor optimization that runs on a network that has frequent connection problems and hiccups in a 5v5 or ?v? setting. Never mind that fact that this game was never made for this insane amount of power creep we have now anyway. I remember when getting hit for 8k by an signet thief backstab was an "oh shit moment". Now, taking 8k just means you didn't dodge spike skill X on class Y. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackTruth.6813 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 And of course the "mesmer main" uses leaderboards instead of game mechanics as an excuse to justify Mirage's previous state This is why if ANET listens to people like you, the game will fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 > @"BlackTruth.6813" said: > And of course the "mesmer main" uses leaderboards instead of game mechanics as an excuse to justify Mirage's previous state > > This is why if ANET listens to people like you, the game will fail. It's honestly better than ANet listening to the self pronounced "knowledgeable community" that likes to sit in their own private discords reaffirming their own beliefs and statements while consistently breaking ToS. We really could do with more broadcast tournaments like when we had weekly ESLs where people would actually try with organised comps so you can see what's highly represented in top level organised and how it plays out in real scenarios. ANet has the data on class representation by division as well as win/loss to get a rough outline of what is too strong and where. I wonder if they have metrics on damage done by class, so for example they can see what amount of damage a certain skill makes up of all the damage done by that particular class on certain types of builds are. So for example looking at rev you can sort the data to only include amulets marauder, berserker and demolisher and then see which skills are doing the most damage out of those builds by divisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incisorr.9502 Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 > @"Babylonn.5027" said: > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > @"Punny.9210" said: > > > > > > Guard one is fine the CD and their dmg are decent > > > > > > > > > > > > just the rev one is so broken when it's played by high plat. > > > > > > > > > > > > ironically scrapper is only thing that can tank their dmg > > > > > > > > > > Let me convince you why Rev isn't broken: > > > > > > > > > > It's the only class that has a combination of an energy mechanic and cooldowns, so whilst you have to manage your cooldowns on your skill you also have to manage your energy usage. This is something NO other class has to care about and everyone else can just blow all their abilities without having to wait for energy. > > > > > > > > > > > > a class being harder to get into and to master doesn't mean that it's not OP > > > > > > > > Mirage has stamina management which is very big if you play infinite horizon because its your main dps source but it's also your defense. It has illusion management cus they also do dmg and are needed for shatters. > > > > > > > > Just because it's harder to operate a modern warship it doesn't mean it's worse than a pirate ship from the 18th century and that's why the military uses modern warships. Just because it's harder to operate a rocket it doesn't mean its slower than a car and so on. Gw2 supposedly wants to be a competitive game and im aware that this analogy is for real life stuff which is always different than a game but at the same time it serves to prove a point. Revenant might be harder to get used to but if you play the game enough and if you actually want to be competitive then you'll put the time needed and get used to it eventually.. > > > > .. and when you get used to revenant the class is just broken. It actually has infinite iframe , it has more iframes than mirage. It can stall actually forever and yes it means that it's offense will be worse cus you waste your energy defensively but you can use it in the right moment to buy time or make the most out of it. It's offense is broken beyond any reason and it's overstatted as hell and that's without even counting the fact that you can even support a revenant by converting all its conditions into boons or removing them , as a fb for example. > > > > > > > > it's harder to get into programming but it's also a better job than cleaning toilets. Gw2 wants to be balanced and fun because all games should want to be balanced and fun because that's the point of games? Well revenant isn't balanced. It stopped being balanced a long time ago. Eventually all the buffs to it add up. People keep telling me that mirage is hard counter to revenant and i keep dying to revenants, i've reached legendary many times by myself without getting carried by a duo when i actually tried and i have much better win rate in games with only good people (that means no randoms to throw) and i still can't deal with revenants because if revenant is played well there's nothing you can do. They won't pick bad engagements cus the class can chose fully what engagements to take cus it has infinite engage/disengage potential with super low cds and currently it's dmg is overstatted as hell which is what pushed it through from not so good to broken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Revenant is GOOD when you're skilled in using it, but it's not overpowered at all. For something to be overpowered it needs to be obvious in how good it is. You don't need to put effort to accomplish something when it is overpowered. Overpowered means you can do something in a much easier and efficient way than something else can do it. > > > Boonbeast is overpowered because it is EASY to accomplish something that is HARD to accomplish on let's say Weaver. > > > > > > The reason Mirage was being called overpowered is because how EASY it is to accomplish the same thing other classes need to work HARD for. > > > > > > By your logic, in CSGO, hitting a headshot wich instantly kills an enemy would be overpowered. Because it instantly gets rid of someone. But it isn't because it takes SKILL to accomplish this headshot. > > > > > > You need to learn the difference between something that requires SKILL and is good and something that is EASY and is good. > > > > > > Revenants like Odlando, Vebryan and Sikieki are way over your league. They're completely outskilling you wich is why they're so high on the leaderboards. These players aren't this good because the class is carrying them to this level. They're this good because their skill is carrying them to this level. > > > > ` > > only difference is that in CS everyone can headshot and in gw2 not every class can, and it's an rpg and people play different classes and like different stuff so "reroll to revenant" argument doesn't work. I don't like revenant's role and gameplay and i didn't like them even before revenant was op. > > > > also odlando isnt a revenant but u wouldnt know because you're a low plat guy (i know cus i've seen u a few times) and u have no clue how high elo usually goes > > > > vebryan isnt good at all and sikieiki i've barely met plus i don't know how good he is when he just shows up behind 4 walls and 1shots me and there are 30 other random revenants that can do the same stuff. The only way i can tell if a revenant is good or not is by how much they can stall when focused, good ones can stall / disengage almost forever (unless they stay on 1 point in which case they cant but if they keep moving then it's all gucci) > > > > also mirage was never "easy to accomplish "stuff with and the lack of mirages in the top of the leaderboards was a proof for that > > Why you still keep talking as youre random noname who thinks hes good xD Truth is; you're not relevant - also your opinions are worth of nothing. You have played only 1 class in this game at mediocore level so don't expect anyone to take you seriously. Even i farmed you 5-2 when we did duels, and i killed you every single time on far during AT's and also numerous times in ranked. Your best meme after Roxas "best mesmer eu". > > Also, if you lose to revenant as CONDI mirage, its 100% l2p-issue. if im not relevant then what are you? i've only seen you once and we won 500-20 cus you're completely clueless??? i doubt you're even gold 3 in terms of skill?? u flame me literally every time on the forum and u don't even play the game on a high level you never "farmed me in duels " idk what you're smoking. You keep saying you farmed me on far but anyone that's ever played with me knows i almost never push far cus i play a team fight/mid build so your bs is next level > @"BlackTruth.6813" said: > And of course the "mesmer main" uses leaderboards instead of game mechanics as an excuse to justify Mirage's previous state > > This is why if ANET listens to people like you, the game will fail. previous state? when mirage was op we had a mirage #1 in the leaderboards the entire time , ofc it was only cus mirage was op but also cus he knows how to soloq but when they nerfed mirage the only #1 we've had has been a scourge, a revenant and ironically a CHRONOMANCER for all the QQ bout mirage, chronomancer has always been better anyway and that's not cus of the base mesmer spec but cus of the stuff chronomancer abuses specifically (f5 with sword and f4 and shield block plus also chronophantasma for the shield illusions) so everyone qqs about mirage but there hasn't been a mirage in top 10 even in leaderboard on finish more than 3 times in the last half year, if even 3, and if there was it was cause of duoing with a revenant and not cause of being a mirage. Lol. I'm not saying leaderboard proves much that's why you shouldnt take it literally and on face value but you can look at it and get some idea and the reason why u always have a scourge #1 is cus he duos with a thief who always just +1s for him cus the class can do it and its essentially 6v5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Smiles.8951 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 @"incisorr.9502" how many times do I have to suggest you log revenant at least once in your life to see and realize that Phase Traversal isn't instant unlike Steal/JI and you can't cast/precast other skills with it (except enchanted daggers which is your heal skill) Also when it bugs out it goes on cd and uses your energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Smiles.8951 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > @"Highlie.7641" said: > > Another perfect example of why they shouldn't of made every profession completely brain dead for players like the OP. > > > > > Yes indeed, it's been years and revenant/thief players have still not figured out that they're a melee class and what field depth and distance is cause every skill is a teleport anyway LmAO. Imagine if a thief ever tried to reroll to warrior or engineer or some class that can actually be kited, he would be in wonderland and would cry to go back home. > > IMAGINE HAVING TO WALK IN GW2 LOL > THIS MEM3 WAS M4D3 BY 7HE TEEF GANG > you do realize that most pvp players in this game are somewhat multiclassing, don't you? It's hard to imagine a rev that never played warrior and it's actually a feelsgoodman when you can dash away in any direction with gs5, bull's charge or rampage 3, let me tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incisorr.9502 Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 > @"BlackTruth.6813" said: > This thread is lowkey trying to nerf Thief and Revenant so the next evil becomes power Mesmer. Basically the OP is trying to get Steal nerfed for example when you NEED instantcast burst against Mesmer or Ranger for that matter. A nerf to Rev and Thief is a buff to Mesmer. You can't be more entitled than that. low key? i thought it was blatant well in case it wasnt NERF THIEF AND REVENANT BECAUSE THEY ARE BOTH THE BEST AND MOST OVERPOWERED CLASSES IN THE 5v5 SPVP FORMAT AND THEY ARE ALSO THE LEAST FUN TO PLAY AGAINST CLASSES AND ABUSE UNFAIR MECHANICS the only counter to 1v2 is to make it 2v2 you cant control other people that's why getting zerged is bad because you cant do anything, individually ... ESPECIALLY AS A MIRAGE BTW because of steal plasma and on high elo (You wouldnt kn0w). Thief is a melee class but it can't be kited cus it doesn't walk, it just teleports, it's always 2 teleports away from you anywhere on the map, you're permanently 1v2 as a mirage on high elo because its incredibly easy for them to be where they want to be and because you can't control your random teammates then there's nothing you can do to counter it. The design is stupid. Having to 1v2 every game is stupid, your team constantly loses 4v3 because they're randoms and at the same time thief still has time to interfere somewhat in team fights and due to the nature of the class it still has high impact. Most classes and in most games using all your skills upfront and landing a good amount of them is enough to do 75-80% of people's hp but not quite kill and in a game like gw2 where a thief can just fill the rest of the dmg on demand suddenly the impact is big. first of all, i check people's account names in game and i know that i can't recognize any of u cus u guys don't even play on high elo so u don't know what ur talking about and secondly if you think me asking for mirage buff is also "entitled" then let me help you - mirage is currently garbage and it needs buff or other classes need to get nerfed - happy? I played mesmer over a year ago and i even made a thread that mirage is broken and it needs a nerf back when it was actually broken, it's not any more and it hasn't been for a long while. Why do i have to keep repeating this ? and lastly, this has nothing to do with mirage. It's not like i'm a "MIRAGE MAIN FOR LYFE"  until few months ago it wasn't even my most played class i can't even enjoy other classes because of how ganks in this game work, mirage might be a much bigger target than other classes are to ganks but it at least has some tools to stall or fight back and hope that your team isn't complete garbage and some of them can match the enemy, other classes don't really have that luxury, half of the classes in the game are just dead to a gank without anything they can do unless circumstances are on their side and the enemy does a bad steal or bad engage/near a jumping place or someone screws up smt but those are exceptions edit: > @"Miyu.8137" said: > @"incisorr.9502" > > Well I don't create new topics over and over to complain about classes I don't play/know nothing about do I? > > And about rank, I frankly don't give a kitten about rank, but checking it, i am currently sitting 88 ranks above you (rank 61 atm), so if I am low, you dear sir, are even lower. And that's how it's going to be if a build can't carry you anymore, just how @"dominik.9721" said. You see ... ppl know what you are :-)  i mean i'm back to legendary even with nerfed mirage and i only duoed a few rounds (before my last games) with someone that asked me so i guess there's all the credibility you need people were talking shit while i was testing other classes and " having fun " but in the end dominik himself had the chance to beat me with his premade and to take my elo and failed because i'm *super* cute and also super effective in spvp and having me on your team is like fortune smiling at you so since im legendary for yet another season in a row, even tho i barely even care, my opinion matters even more now ha edit2: oh , in case it isn't clear this is #1 mirage in europe btw, there's no other mirages in legendary or even close, only chronos and this is from today/ post nerfs, obviously, i already got legendary during this season at the start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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