I'm starting to get a hang of thief, I have some general questions though (wvw/spvp)

[Zexanima.7851]

I've been switching between WvW and sPvP learning thief. It's a lot more fun than my ranger but a lot harder. I could use some general questions I have answered.

 

1. What are _suppose_ to be our worst match ups? Just so I know if certain fights should be hard of if it's a l2p issue on my part.

2. Is daredevil S/D a viable build? I'm running core S/D right now and it's a lot of fun but I've also seen people replace acrobatics with Daredevil. Is the extra evade worth losing the steal recharge on sword evade?

3. When do you run S/D vs D/P? S/D just seems better to me in most situations. With D/P I have to really commit to a fight and if I need to gtfo I either have to burn my shadowstep or hope I have enough time to black poweder + heartseeker.

4. This more of a complaint (go figure) than a question. It might just be me but some of thief's skills feel like they take way to long to activate. I kind of expect everything to be snappy but certain skills feel like their cast time is years. For instance; cluster bomb/choking gas, infiltrators return, cloak and dagger. I get why they have cast times but it really hampers the flow/feel of the profession if you ask me.

5. How do you flip camps without dying? I can't even get one npc down with S/D before I get smacked. With ranger I could draw off one at a time and pew pew but I cant seem to do that as thief.

[omgdracula.6345]

1) All of them. Thieves are not made to be in a 1v1. You CAN 1v1 kind of with S/D but it is more important for you to +1 fights and make them out numbered and to decap with your high mobility.

 

2) Core S/D is better. The steal recharge is hella good.

 

3) S/D is best atm. I run S/D unless the other team has a Deadeye. Then I run D/P. You can do fine with both though so whichever one you feel more comfortable with play that.

 

4) Thief to me is super fluid. That is just me though.

 

5) Just level up in WvW and trait out to take less damage from guards and such. Or use shortbow. SB is super underated.

[babazhook.6805]

For flipping camps you should not port to the middle of the camp and start swapping blows. Get to the edge of the outer aggro ring and pull one or two to you. Use your #2 to get a first blow in and then port back before the rest swarm you. The single largest thing a thief has to learn is they can not get in and swap blows with multiple enemies as other classes can. Even in a 1v1 against an enemy player there a tendency to stick around too long thinking "I almost got him ". I contrast that with my warrior. He just bulls right into the middle of camp and does not worry about the aggro he draws.

 

I do use a thief s/p build who is in CS, DE and Acro. With IP traited he can go into the middle of a camp and Pistol whip wherein his health stays at full. I would never do this with S/d. S/d tends to do better with Core (Ie DA/Acro/Tr) albeit if I was forced to choose between the elites I would take DD over DE.

 

I do not PVP so speak only to WvW.

[Zexanima.7851]

> @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> 1) All of them. Thieves are not made to be in a 1v1. You CAN 1v1 kind of with S/D but it is more important for you to +1 fights and make them out numbered and to decap with your high mobility.

 

What about in WvW when solo roaming? You don't have a choice to 1v1, but you don't have to worry about space/time. I know thief sucks against everything, just wondering what it sucks the worst against.

>

> 2) Core S/D is better. The steal recharge is hella good.

>

> 3) S/D is best atm. I run S/D unless the other team has a Deadeye. Then I run D/P. You can do fine with both though so whichever one you feel more comfortable with play that.

>

> 4) Thief to me is super fluid. That is just me though.

>

> 5) Just level up in WvW and trait out to take less damage from guards and such. Or use shortbow. SB is super underated.

I'll level up those traits and try again. I still couldn't do it with shortbow, just didn't have the damage. Would burn through all my ini before even getting a kill

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

First thing u want to learn is ignore all the BS non thief players post in the forums as I’m sure by now u realize the class is hard to play WELL on and survive.thief gets a lot of haters due to its playstyles and if listening to posters crys ull think u have top damage and sustain lol.

Once Uve ignored them what was said previously is true in that theif excels at using its mobility/ports to quickly engage in +1 fights as it’s 1v1 potential is garbage. Infiltrator arrow is great for reaching nodes fast for decap or for repositioning.choking gas is good for downed players to delay reviving.in wvw before mounts thiefs was great for scouting roaming etc due to mobility,mounts kinda made all classes decent at it lol.s/d is definitely more forgiving than d/p and whether to go DD is mostly preference. Staff DD is ur best bet for zergs atleast I find and s/d or d/p is ok for roaming just know that ur best bet is to always be aware of ur surroundings as thief can be downed in seconds by every class, stay back and pick and choose ur +1’s. Also u really don’t offer anything significant to ur allies so just follow zergs as u won’t get many invites. Have fun :)

[Zexanima.7851]

> @"babazhook.6805" said:

> For flipping camps you should not port to the middle of the camp and start swapping blows. Get to the edge of the outer aggro ring and pull one or two to you. Use your #2 to get a first blow in and then port back before the rest swarm you. The single largest thing a thief has to learn is they can not get in and swap blows with multiple enemies as other classes can. Even in a 1v1 against an enemy player there a tendency to stick around too long thinking "I almost got him ". I contrast that with my warrior. He just bulls right into the middle of camp and does not worry about the aggro he draws.

>

> I do use a thief s/p build who is in CS, DE and Acro. With IP traited he can go into the middle of a camp and Pistol whip wherein his health stays at full. I would never do this with S/d. S/d tends to do better with Core (Ie DA/Acro/Tr) albeit if I was forced to choose between the elites I would take DD over DE.

>

> I do not PVP so speak only to WvW.

 

I don't brawl as a thief, I know it's not built for that. Even doing hit and run and trying to bait out single enemies at camps I still find it really hard to flip them in any reasonable amount of time.

 

[omgdracula.6345]

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > 1) All of them. Thieves are not made to be in a 1v1. You CAN 1v1 kind of with S/D but it is more important for you to +1 fights and make them out numbered and to decap with your high mobility.

>

> What about in WvW when solo roaming? You don't have a choice to 1v1, but you don't have to worry about space/time. I know thief sucks against everything, just wondering what it sucks the worst against.

> >

> > 2) Core S/D is better. The steal recharge is hella good.

> >

> > 3) S/D is best atm. I run S/D unless the other team has a Deadeye. Then I run D/P. You can do fine with both though so whichever one you feel more comfortable with play that.

> >

> > 4) Thief to me is super fluid. That is just me though.

> >

> > 5) Just level up in WvW and trait out to take less damage from guards and such. Or use shortbow. SB is super underated.

> I'll level up those traits and try again. I still couldn't do it with shortbow, just didn't have the damage. Would burn through all my ini before even getting a kill

>

 

As far as 1v1 in WvW I don't really roam as much since the mount was added. I would usually only pick people off though. It sucks the worst against pretty much everything sadly tbh. We don't really have any matchups that are extremely in our favor. Especially in WvW where alot of the tankier builds are run. Revenant is probably the one class offhand I can think of we do okay against. You can also beat mesmers here and there.

[omgdracula.6345]

I will also warn you that you'll get A TON of hate as a thief player. You will either get hate from the enemy players for just farming them or from your teammates if you arent doing everything at once in spvp. Just ignore all of the negativity.

[Zexanima.7851]

> @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> I will also warn you that you'll get A TON of hate as a thief player. You will either get hate from the enemy players for just farming them or from your teammates if you arent doing everything at once in spvp. Just ignore all of the negativity.

 

That's fine, if my enemies are mad I know I'm doing good. If my allies are mad there is nothing I do about that, they'll just have to get over it.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > I will also warn you that you'll get A TON of hate as a thief player. You will either get hate from the enemy players for just farming them or from your teammates if you arent doing everything at once in spvp. Just ignore all of the negativity.

>

> That's fine, if my enemies are mad I know I'm doing good. If my allies are mad there is nothing I do about that, they'll just have to get over it.

 

That’s definitely a good mindset to have,and if u get engaged by a sb or holo run,run so fast and never look back lol

[Safandula.8723]

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> I've been switching between WvW and sPvP learning thief. It's a lot more fun than my ranger but a lot harder. I could use some general questions I have answered.

>

> 1. What are _suppose_ to be our worst match ups? Just so I know if certain fights should be hard of if it's a l2p issue on my part.

> 2. Is daredevil S/D a viable build? I'm running core S/D right now and it's a lot of fun but I've also seen people replace acrobatics with Daredevil. Is the extra evade worth losing the steal recharge on sword evade?

> 3. When do you run S/D vs D/P? S/D just seems better to me in most situations. With D/P I have to really commit to a fight and if I need to gtfo I either have to burn my shadowstep or hope I have enough time to black poweder + heartseeker.

> 4. This more of a complaint (go figure) than a question. It might just be me but some of thief's skills feel like they take way to long to activate. I kind of expect everything to be snappy but certain skills feel like their cast time is years. For instance; cluster bomb/choking gas, infiltrators return, cloak and dagger. I get why they have cast times but it really hampers the flow/feel of the profession if you ask me.

> 5. How do you flip camps without dying? I can't even get one npc down with S/D before I get smacked. With ranger I could draw off one at a time and pew pew but I cant seem to do that as thief.

 

1. Engi and guard. In pvp thief shouldn't fight any1 1v1, but in wvw good s/d or maybe d/p can kill any1 except of tanky classes.

2. Imo it's viable in wvw, u can kite ppl pretty well.

3. S/d is good cuz it can fight in team fight much longer due to dodges on s3. Also unblockable 3 make it good against guards. D/p is supposed to only do fast spikes and rotate to next point so it's kinda better against squishy comps.

4. I would like only s2 comeback to be activated faster, rest is ok imo

5. Shortbow 2.hide behind some corner, so everything runs to u, and spam sb2, it will be good enough. Also dagger 4 works well on multiple targets, cloak and dagger and stealth sword attack is good single target burst. A bit of practice, and it won't be any of a problem anymore

[Zexanima.7851]

> @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > I've been switching between WvW and sPvP learning thief. It's a lot more fun than my ranger but a lot harder. I could use some general questions I have answered.

> >

> > 1. What are _suppose_ to be our worst match ups? Just so I know if certain fights should be hard of if it's a l2p issue on my part.

> > 2. Is daredevil S/D a viable build? I'm running core S/D right now and it's a lot of fun but I've also seen people replace acrobatics with Daredevil. Is the extra evade worth losing the steal recharge on sword evade?

> > 3. When do you run S/D vs D/P? S/D just seems better to me in most situations. With D/P I have to really commit to a fight and if I need to gtfo I either have to burn my shadowstep or hope I have enough time to black poweder + heartseeker.

> > 4. This more of a complaint (go figure) than a question. It might just be me but some of thief's skills feel like they take way to long to activate. I kind of expect everything to be snappy but certain skills feel like their cast time is years. For instance; cluster bomb/choking gas, infiltrators return, cloak and dagger. I get why they have cast times but it really hampers the flow/feel of the profession if you ask me.

> > 5. How do you flip camps without dying? I can't even get one npc down with S/D before I get smacked. With ranger I could draw off one at a time and pew pew but I cant seem to do that as thief.

>

> 1. Engi and guard. In pvp thief shouldn't fight any1 1v1, but in wvw good s/d or maybe d/p can kill any1 except of tanky classes.

> 2. Imo it's viable in wvw, u can kite ppl pretty well.

> 3. S/d is good cuz it can fight in team fight much longer due to dodges on s3. Also unblockable 3 make it good against guards. D/p is supposed to only do fast spikes and rotate to next point so it's kinda better against squishy comps.

> 4. I would like only s2 comeback to be activated faster, rest is ok imo

> 5. Shortbow 2.hide behind some corner, so everything runs to u, and spam sb2, it will be good enough. Also dagger 4 works well on multiple targets, cloak and dagger and stealth sword attack is good single target burst. A bit of practice, and it won't be any of a problem anymore

 

Thanks for the answers, greatly appreciated!

[Alatar.7364]

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> I've been switching between WvW and sPvP learning thief. It's a lot more fun than my ranger but a lot harder. I could use some general questions I have answered.

>

> 1. What are _suppose_ to be our worst match ups? Just so I know if certain fights should be hard of if it's a l2p issue on my part.

> 2. Is daredevil S/D a viable build? I'm running core S/D right now and it's a lot of fun but I've also seen people replace acrobatics with Daredevil. Is the extra evade worth losing the steal recharge on sword evade?

> 3. When do you run S/D vs D/P? S/D just seems better to me in most situations. With D/P I have to really commit to a fight and if I need to gtfo I either have to burn my shadowstep or hope I have enough time to black poweder + heartseeker.

> 4. This more of a complaint (go figure) than a question. It might just be me but some of thief's skills feel like they take way to long to activate. I kind of expect everything to be snappy but certain skills feel like their cast time is years. For instance; cluster bomb/choking gas, infiltrators return, cloak and dagger. I get why they have cast times but it really hampers the flow/feel of the profession if you ask me.

> 5. How do you flip camps without dying? I can't even get one npc down with S/D before I get smacked. With ranger I could draw off one at a time and pew pew but I cant seem to do that as thief.

 

I can and will adress the points only from sPvP perspective.

 

1) Practically all are bad match-ups, no Thief meta build is capable of 1v1 anything else other than itself. You **can** deal with Revs but their dmg is so quick and oppressive that it's hard also certain types of Ele.

 

2) Yes, it is viable. DD S/D vs Core S/D is nothing else but a very precise and specific trade off, both very good. In my personal opinion Core S/D is tiny bit better, but there are situations where DD will perform better, like when facing more Condi oriented enemies.

 

3) S/D most of the time, especially when bunkers relying on protection and stability are present. D/P if enemy team has thief (especially DE) or more than one Rev. Statisticaly S/D will be the better choice most of the time, even when enemy Thieves are present.

 

4) I think all of those you mentioned are fine, maybe Clusterbomb afte-cast could be shorter.

 

5) I don't have an issue at all with that, proper usage of Infiltrator Strike/Return should solve all the issues you are having with it. Can't really be more specific here as I am not sure what troubles you there

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> I've been switching between WvW and sPvP learning thief. It's a lot more fun than my ranger but a lot harder. I could use some general questions I have answered.

>

> 1. What are _suppose_ to be our worst match ups? Just so I know if certain fights should be hard of if it's a l2p issue on my part.

 

In PvP, it's a team effort. Fighting on your own is a waste of time. Even the pro are having a hard time on their own. Playing a Thief also means knowing your limitations and knowing where you can be more productive. Knowing your worst match up should not be something you should worry about.

 

In WvW, the Trebuchet is your worst match up. lol, kidding aside, Scourge is my worst match up so it might be your worst match up also. But every Thief player will differ in this regards. I just can't damage Scourge enough to take them down at the same time they apply conditions too darn fast.

 

> 2. Is daredevil S/D a viable build? I'm running core S/D right now and it's a lot of fun but I've also seen people replace acrobatics with Daredevil. Is the extra evade worth losing the steal recharge on sword evade?

 

Core S/D >> DD S/D

 

It's just the way it is. The synergy between DA, Acro, and Trick is very solid.

 

> 3. When do you run S/D vs D/P? S/D just seems better to me in most situations. With D/P I have to really commit to a fight and if I need to gtfo I either have to burn my shadowstep or hope I have enough time to black poweder + heartseeker.

 

D/P is really good at controlling the fight. Blind is the key to your survival. Unlike the evade from S/D, blind forces your target to pause which gives you a lot of time to regen Initiatives. You'll see the difference in the frequency of their attacks when they are blinded, they are a lot slower in activating skills. Black powder is not just for stealth, it's also a very powerful defensive skill.

 

S/D is more aggressive. It used to be a tactical weapon set, now it has a lot more damage potential. Stripping boons, evading attacks, applying immob, cripple, removing condition, stealth -- all in the weapon set. Which means, you can be super aggressive with this set.

 

Each weapon set is viable but it would depends on your play style and which build to run. Core build will always favor S/D, that's a given. You can run D/P with either DD or DE. Bounding DD D/P is still a fun build and MBS DE D/P is lethal.

 

> 4. This more of a complaint (go figure) than a question. It might just be me but some of thief's skills feel like they take way to long to activate. I kind of expect everything to be snappy but certain skills feel like their cast time is years. For instance; cluster bomb/choking gas, infiltrators return, cloak and dagger. I get why they have cast times but it really hampers the flow/feel of the profession if you ask me.

 

lol, you're not alone. In one of the threads here, I have mentioned that having Quickness feels more natural as a Thief. That is because our weapon skills are currently suffering from pre-cast and after-cast delays. They have toned this down in the past but haven't done anything to really address this issue.

 

> 5. How do you flip camps without dying? I can't even get one npc down with S/D before I get smacked. With ranger I could draw off one at a time and pew pew but I cant seem to do that as thief.

 

You need to gain a lot of WXP. The guards are tough for a reason, but with 3 points into Guard Killer and 3 points into Defense Against Guards, you'll be able to solo cap a camp. Just watchout for the Supervisor, they hit like a truck even with the anti-Guard abilities. You just need to kite the Supervisor until you killed all the adds.

[kash.9213]

If you're roaming and forced to 1v1 or 1v? don't just start popping off skills or hopping around, stay calm and maybe try some soft feints or skill cancels or low cost stuff and see what they're about and then just sort of let them kill themselves on you, play casual in WvW, even when shit gets crazy or when you're out-skilled. If you get beat review your combat tab and all that, play the fight over in your head once or twice, and go find more fights of all scales and group comps...don't be picky.

 

Most builds can be budgeted to fit S/D and it's just a good kit overall and especially in WvW where a thief in particular needs to close the distance or create it instinctively (keep your peripheral vision sharp even when you're focused on someone at the moment). if you're having trouble with camps, like you can't seem to pry out one or two at a time, funnel them together and dancing dagger and auto them down and stagger out dodge and untargeted Flanking Strike so you have something for when a duo or group tries to jump you.

[Highlie.7641]

You can take camps in Wvw pretty easy, target the range guards, fire off 2-3 dancing daggers at them (they bounce so it will aggro the whole camp) Then hit daggerstorm. the range guards will then kill the camp for you (reflect on DS). if there is any still alive after you Ds target them first, (you can kite the melee guys)

[Weasel.9684]

My word none of these fools are answering your questions and are mostly talking about spvp when you’re clearly leaning more towards wvw with the questions

 

1.engi,core guard,and boonbeasts ar the matchups you’re just gonna have a hard time with period has to be a pretty big difference in skill to overcome them.warriors mesmers revenants and necros are straight forward if you know the strategies. Ele is a meh why bother you can do it but it just takes forever if they’re bad and if they’re good it can turn into a never ending fight.

 

2.when facing other classes s/d is just gonna be better it can attack while dodging has boonrip and the extra survival of instant reflexes d/p is usually best for just aiming to +1 like ppl said or do some cheesey one shot backstab build or putting down another thief.

 

3.i don’t really use d/p anymore except to troll around the last dagger auto nerfs from a few months back made it just hit like a noodle outside of backstabs.

 

4. Yes the shortbow skills are somewhat slow it takes a bit to get the timing and spacing down. alot of thieves aren’t very good with it so if you get good you’ll be that much better then the average thief

 

5.like someone else said stand at the edge and pull one or two u can ether use shortbow 1 and 2 or autos to cleave but don’t take on more then that makes you easy pickings if someone comes

[Lociaz.4027]

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> I've been switching between WvW and sPvP learning thief. It's a lot more fun than my ranger but a lot harder. I could use some general questions I have answered.

>

> 1. What are _suppose_ to be our worst match ups? Just so I know if certain fights should be hard of if it's a l2p issue on my part.

> 2. Is daredevil S/D a viable build? I'm running core S/D right now and it's a lot of fun but I've also seen people replace acrobatics with Daredevil. Is the extra evade worth losing the steal recharge on sword evade?

> 3. When do you run S/D vs D/P? S/D just seems better to me in most situations. With D/P I have to really commit to a fight and if I need to gtfo I either have to burn my shadowstep or hope I have enough time to black poweder + heartseeker.

> 4. This more of a complaint (go figure) than a question. It might just be me but some of thief's skills feel like they take way to long to activate. I kind of expect everything to be snappy but certain skills feel like their cast time is years. For instance; cluster bomb/choking gas, infiltrators return, cloak and dagger. I get why they have cast times but it really hampers the flow/feel of the profession if you ask me.

> 5. How do you flip camps without dying? I can't even get one npc down with S/D before I get smacked. With ranger I could draw off one at a time and pew pew but I cant seem to do that as thief.

 

Hello buddy!

 

Have you ever tried Staff build?

Here you have some clips, tips and tricks that I have done.

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBWZ_qYbTpReIk1FGKXSmSQ

 

It is tricky to learn staff thief but it's worth it, and really fun and you can do 1vX.

 

Enjoy! ??

[JonnyForgotten.4276]

Bit late to the party, but as far as taking camps, one thing that really helps me is focusing the scouts first, as the blind off their pistol attacks can really mess with your dps. Opening with shortbow 1 and 2 can help a lot as well. The projectile bounce off sb1 can put out a good bit of damage if your targets are bunched together.