Racial abilities and Mistfire wolf should be buffed

[TEKnowledgy.1760]

I agree while they do that they need give revenant their racial skills lol. I know i'm probably gonna get flak from someone over that. I know most racial skills are useless but it's always nice to have options for times when one just wants to tinker. I like options more the better, I like tinkering with crazy ideas one of the reasons i loved engi here and guild wars 1 as a whole. i had plenty of options with skill combinations. But I agree the unique skills like race ones and the one that came with deluxe gw2 core need be brought up to speed with other skill tweaks. They only feel useless because they've never been tweaked on like anet wants us to forget they exist but some reason leave them in the game. (ok except for revenant i think he is guinea pig for racial and even the mistfire removal of skills because he don't have any of them)

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Step 1: Remove Non-profession skills from raids (and fractals/wvw?). There, now they no longer influence meta that matters (since they're already locked from pvp.

Step 2: Buff Racial / Mistfire Wolf, and bring back [Antitoxin Spray](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Antitoxin_Spray).

Step 3: Add more racial skills so that there's an even amount across the board (1 heal, 3 utility, 4 elites). Revenants can get a new legendary to compensate. Add 4 utility non-racial, non-profession skills to go with Antitoxin Spray and Mistfore Wolf, perhaps themed after the PS, Season 1, and Season 2 (say, "Order Support" that summons NPC allies based off of the order you chose).

Step 4: Add a new core traitline that focuses around racial skills.

 

 

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> Step 1: Remove Non-profession skills from raids (and fractals/wvw?). There, now they no longer influence meta that matters (since they're already locked from pvp.

 

 

Step 1: remove racial skills entirely from the game. There, now there's no issue about whether they should be buffed or not.

(i.e. it's not much of a solution either)

 

Skills still have to be balanced, even if they are only used in open world content. And if they are only available in open world, that seems like a lot of work to do anything at all with them. The entire point about racial skills is that they aren't meant to replace or compete with other skills. They are flavor-only, niche-specific skills. Unlike other games, race (and gender) are only supposed to affect story & skins, not combat.

 

Besides, aren't there tons of other things that we want devs to address in the areas of balance, skills & traits, and related mechanics?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > Step 1: Remove Non-profession skills from raids (and fractals/wvw?). There, now they no longer influence meta that matters (since they're already locked from pvp.

>

>

> Step 1: remove racial skills entirely from the game. There, now there's no issue about whether they should be buffed or not.

> (i.e. it's not much of a solution either)

>

> Skills still have to be balanced, even if they are only used in open world content. And if they are only available in open world, that seems like a lot of work to do anything at all with them. The entire point about racial skills is that they aren't meant to replace or compete with other skills. They are flavor-only, niche-specific skills. Unlike other games, race (and gender) are only supposed to affect story & skins, not combat.

>

> Besides, aren't there tons of other things that we want devs to address in the areas of balance, skills & traits, and related mechanics?

 

You must have stopped reading my post at step 1 given your response.

 

The entire point about racial skills not competing is so that in grouped content (originally intended to be dungeons, but now raids and fractals) there'd be no need to go a certain race plus profession combo - that anyone could play whatever race/profession combo they wanted. By buffing them to be viable, people can use them if they want. By removing the from where "meta matters" - raids, high end fractals, arguably wvw - Anet can buff them to be viable for those who want to use them, without the issue of the community seeing the "meta of the month" as being a certain race/profession combination.

 

Race was never "not meant to affect combat" - if that was the case then they never would have introduced racial skills. It was just that racial skills were never intended to be "meta worthy". Remove them from where meta matters, they remain "not meta worthy".

 

And yes, there are other things folks want devs to address. But that doesn't mean one thing wanted to be addressed should be completely ignored for the sake of other things wanted to be addressed.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> Step 1: remove racial skills entirely from the game. There, now there's no issue about whether they should be buffed or not.

> (i.e. it's not much of a solution either)

>

 

Would be Great.

When you pick up a Race for your character you should only think about aesthetic, cause this is fashion was 2, and animations.

 

I can accept racial skills as fun traits, but here we go again. They gave fun racial not meant for pve or wvw? Players are now complaining about em asking for better skills.

 

And traits too!

 

And to think that i should consider the Race i want for my character cause of racial things which are not jokes... Well it makes me Sad.

[Lokki.1092]

What if racial skills were different in visual effect only?

 

Normalize them across the board completely.

 

Summon 7-Series Golem / Warband Support / Hounds of Balthazar / Summon Sylvan Hound / ~~Become~~ _Summon_ the Raven

All become the exact same skill, the summons all have the same DPS, the same abilities and are different in name and visual only.

 

Summon Power Suit / Charrzooka / Reaper of Grenth / Become the Wolf /Take Root

All replace your 1-5 and utility slots with the exact same skills. The look and feel of the skills could be different, but functionally they all work identical.

 

Any race with too few racial skills gets a new one so all of them have 2 summons, 1 transform and 1 nuke. Do the exact same with utilities and heals and I don't see any problem with making them useful.

 

New artwork, new (useful) skills, and possibly a new meta. I see positives all around.

[tigirius.9014]

> @sgeisi.5981 said:

> The game has been out for 5 ish years now. Why are racial abilities and Mistfire wolf still intentionally under tuned? Originally it was so no one race had an advantage. But here we are now with 2 elite specs per profession, mounts, gliding etc. Are a handful of abilities really going to break the game? Would they really alter your decision on which race you chose? Even if they did, is that a bad thing? Why even have them in the game if they are completely unused?

>

> I just think it's time they could be brought in line with other abilities so they are actually viable choices for builds.

>

> -Side note- Why does Revenant not have access to any of these? Even if they were in the special ability slot.

>

>

 

Oddly some racial abilities work well. The turrets by the salad people for example and the AOE confuse by the Asura is awesome imo especially for tanky toons.

 

[Ellisande.5218]

The real question is, why are racials unique in their function? If all racials were identical in function but different in form, then players would still feel unique while the racials would all be balanced because they'd all actually be the same.

[Ashen.2907]

:-1:

 

Afraid I have to disagree with the suggestion. Having to potentially choose between performance and race aesthetics is a big turn off for me.

[TexZero.7910]

> @Ellisande.5218 said:

> The real question is, why are racials unique in their function? If all racials were identical in function but different in form, then players would still feel unique while the racials would all be balanced because they'd all actually be the same.

 

I feel like this really shouldn't need explaining....

 

The racial skills are different in function because, different races use magic and technology differently.

[Charrbeque.8729]

Pretty much. Mistfire Wolf is cool, but it only lasts for about 30 seconds or until killed, whichever comes first, and has a really long cooldown. It ends up becoming useless over profession specific elites that have shorter cooldowns and/or longer durations, traits that reduce cooldowns, traits and gear that increase condition damage/duration or boon duration (depending on the elite you're using). Race specific skills are pretty useless as well for the same reason.

 

But players have been asking for some improvements for a very long time. ArenaNet will probably get to it eventually (hopefully).

 

Also, I would like a Mistfire Wolf ranger pet. Would be interesting for soulbeast beast mode.

[sgeisi.5981]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> Step 1: Remove Non-profession skills from raids (and fractals/wvw?). There, now they no longer influence meta that matters (since they're already locked from pvp.

> Step 2: Buff Racial / Mistfire Wolf, and bring back [Antitoxin Spray](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Antitoxin_Spray).

> Step 3: Add more racial skills so that there's an even amount across the board (1 heal, 3 utility, 4 elites). Revenants can get a new legendary to compensate. Add 4 utility non-racial, non-profession skills to go with Antitoxin Spray and Mistfore Wolf, perhaps themed after the PS, Season 1, and Season 2 (say, "Order Support" that summons NPC allies based off of the order you chose).

> Step 4: Add a new core traitline that focuses around racial skills.

>

>

 

I forgot about Antitoxin Spray, we need that back too. I agree with all of this.

 

So far the only argument I've seen against this whole discussion is that people don't want to feel like race matters to the meta, and I can see the point, and agree to some extent. But it's been stated multiple times now, the simple answer to that is give everyone access to all of them. Sure you lose a bit of the "flavor" of them being race specific, but at least now it doesn't matter which race you play.

 

You have an amazing idea of having a trait line. Why not create an elite spec available to all profession that works around racial abilities, while each set of racial abilities is unlocked from masteries. Obviously this is way more work than just adjusting some cooldowns, but it would still be really cool. And you just lock them out of WvW/PvP/Raids if it's necessary.

[Zephyra.4709]

I'm just going to quietly leave this here and contemplate how absurdly terrifying and hilariously OP Norn elite forms would be if they were buffed...

 

[Opopanax.1803]

I really like a mastery idea. You would start with your races by default, then master other races racials.

 

Would really make it fair on many levels.

[tigirius.9014]

> @CptAurellian.9537 said:

> > @castlemanic.3198 said:

> > **the very moment racial skills become viable choices, they become viable for metas**.

> While I don't agree with a lot of the attitude that shines through the rest of this post, here you have nailed it. The moment racial skills become competitive (=equal, as some have put it) with profession skills, certain race/prof combinations will gain an advantage over others. Even if it's just a niche in which the skill becomes useful. Race selection in GW2 should have no effect beyond optics and lore and undertuned racial skills are there to ensure this. I really don't need the equivalent of WoW's dwarven priests (fear ward) and tauren tanks (extra health) in GW2.

 

Can't see any problem with racial skills becoming viable choices in PVE honestly because balance has always been about PVP and one of the good things about the balance team is that they've coded the game to have different stats for PVE vs PVP in skills. So they can code the PVE versions of these skills to actually make a difference while leaving them as weak and useless in PVP.

 

Honestly I'm really tired of the PVP players trying to restrict the PVE players just because they don't want to take the time to actually test out a good build that is not 100% glass canon. Seriously, balance should have never been put in the hands of the PVP community as it's consistently been a problem in every major mmorpg ever made.

 

 

[tekfan.3179]

I support the mastery-idea. You start with the racial skills of your race, the other races can unlock them via masteries. So if a racial skill becomes the meta for a certain profession, characters from other races would simply have to train a mastery and everything would be fine. The holo smith already looks like a asuran profession and every race can wear the dynamics exoskeleton outfit, so why not take the next step?

[Ellisande.5218]

> @TexZero.7910 said:

> > @Ellisande.5218 said:

> > The real question is, why are racials unique in their function? If all racials were identical in function but different in form, then players would still feel unique while the racials would all be balanced because they'd all actually be the same.

>

> I feel like this really shouldn't need explaining....

>

> The racial skills are different in function because, different races use magic and technology differently.

 

I feel like this really shouldn't need explaining but that is why they would all have different animations while maintaining a similar mechanical function so that they would all be self balancing. What part of that didn't you understand when I posted it the first time?

 

And if every race uses magic differently then how come all Guardians are the same regardless of race? All Hunters? All Engineers? Asura use magic technology while the Sylvari use plant magic technology. It is only the humans and Charr who use steampunk technology. But for some stupid reason all Engineers use stupid steam punk technology that could not possibly work the way it is shown. If you have a problem with all racials being similar in function but different in form, then why aren't you complaining that Asura should Engineers use steampunk instead of magic technology?

[TexZero.7910]

> @Ellisande.5218 said:

> > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > @Ellisande.5218 said:

> > > The real question is, why are racials unique in their function? If all racials were identical in function but different in form, then players would still feel unique while the racials would all be balanced because they'd all actually be the same.

> >

> > I feel like this really shouldn't need explaining....

> >

> > The racial skills are different in function because, different races use magic and technology differently.

>

> I feel like this really shouldn't need explaining but that is why they would all have different animations while maintaining a similar mechanical function so that they would all be self balancing. What part of that didn't you understand when I posted it the first time?

>

> And if every race uses magic differently then how come all Guardians are the same regardless of race? All Hunters? All Engineers? Asura use magic technology while the Sylvari use plant magic technology. It is only the humans and Charr who use steampunk technology. But for some stupid reason all Engineers use stupid steam punk technology that could not possibly work the way it is shown. If you have a problem with all racials being similar in function but different in form, then why aren't you complaining that Asura should Engineers use steampunk instead of magic technology?

 

Because those are profession skills, not racial skills. Asked and answered :)

 

As hilarious as it would be seeing a Norn use Warband or Take Root, they aren't part of the Norn heritage or background which is all the racial skills are. They are there solely as flavor to differentiate the races even further.

[mtpelion.4562]

Personally, I think they should add a "Racial Skill" slot that is independent from the normal heal/utility/elite slots which is the only place racial skills can be placed.

 

Then, that slot would be disabled for PvP, WvW, and Dungeons/Fractals allowing your racial skills to be used exclusively for open world and story PvE.

 

With this setup, balance would no longer be a primary concern and making them cool and fun to use would be the priority.

[Dante.1763]

 

> Personally, I think they should add a "Racial Skill" slot that is independent from the normal heal/utility/elite slots which is the only place racial skills can be placed.

>

> Then, that slot would be disabled for PvP, WvW, and Dungeons/Fractals allowing your racial skills to be used exclusively for open world and story PvE.

>

> With this setup, balance would no longer be a primary concern and making them cool and fun to use would be the priority.

 

I actually like that idea quite alot. No reason to disable it in Dungeons however. Fractals yes, PVP yes, Raids yes etc.

[Lokki.1092]

> @TexZero.7910 said:

> > @Ellisande.5218 said:

> > > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > > @Ellisande.5218 said:

> > > > The real question is, why are racials unique in their function? If all racials were identical in function but different in form, then players would still feel unique while the racials would all be balanced because they'd all actually be the same.

> > >

> > > I feel like this really shouldn't need explaining....

> > >

> > > The racial skills are different in function because, different races use magic and technology differently.

> >

> > I feel like this really shouldn't need explaining but that is why they would all have different animations while maintaining a similar mechanical function so that they would all be self balancing. What part of that didn't you understand when I posted it the first time?

> >

> > And if every race uses magic differently then how come all Guardians are the same regardless of race? All Hunters? All Engineers? Asura use magic technology while the Sylvari use plant magic technology. It is only the humans and Charr who use steampunk technology. But for some stupid reason all Engineers use stupid steam punk technology that could not possibly work the way it is shown. If you have a problem with all racials being similar in function but different in form, then why aren't you complaining that Asura should Engineers use steampunk instead of magic technology?

>

> Because those are profession skills, not racial skills. Asked and answered :)

>

> As hilarious as it would be seeing a Norn use Warband or Take Root, they aren't part of the Norn heritage or background which is all the racial skills are. They are there solely as flavor to differentiate the races even further.

 

How are you not understanding this?

 

"Warband Support" would be "Summon Ravens" for a Norn, and "Hounds of Balthazar" For a human.

"Summon Power Suit" Would be "Become the Bear" for a Norn, and "Avatar of Melandru" for a human.

 

The skills would be functionally the same but have completely different animations and names. A Norn or human wouldn't get into a golem. They would both have a race based transformation.

 

The point is each race would have, utilities, summons, weapons/transformations (skills that change your bars). Each of those abilities would would be identical in damage, range, cooldown and any other functionality. But still have the flavor that differentiates the races.

[Mea.5491]

No thanks. I hate MMOs with "good" racial skills/passives because that means I can't choose the race I **like**, I must choose the race that is more **usefeul** for my class. I'm glad GW2 doesn't have powerful/significant racials. If I were an Anet dev, I would even delete them from the game!

[Opopanax.1803]

Keep them in, make CDs reasonable, make them scale 10% less than their related class elites, bam, done.

[Opopanax.1803]

Ps, I want to use Norn elites but hate a 4 min CD...

[Velran.1052]

No. Races should be purely cosmetic. In fact they should probably just be deleted to put everyone on an even playing field, No matter what race you choose.