Gop.8713 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 So to recap, OP does not enjoy replaying the festivals every year but struggles to ignore the offered rewards. The proposed solution is that anet should be barred from adding any new content or rewards for players who do enjoy the festivals as they come around year after year. This strikes me as selfish. Incredibly so really . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airdive.2613 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 On the other hand, newer players who try SAB for the first time are going to appreciate more stuff to do, so it's still a good idea to add stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaklex.6308 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 > @"Dalec.9853" said: > > @"kratan.4619" said: > > Why does it bother you at all, I can go back and get the few AP offered and you do not have to, I am not really seeing the problem here. This does not affect you in any way, other than possibly an argument like, "I don't want to redo the content to get the new AP offered and nobody else should be able to so that I won't fall behind in the AP race." > > It bothers me as I wish to complete achievements; if you do not play the game that way that is fine, but I and others do. Most might just be accepting of it just being the way it is done, but I am questioning it. You correctly state that I do not want to redo content, old content that is no longer enjoyable to me, but feel the need to because of the achievement additions, not because the content has suddenly been reworked or became enjoyable. I am not saying nobody else should be able to play it, I encourage those that would enjoy it to do it! so it's not that nobody else should be able to, but nobody should HAVE to do it or risk falling behind in the 'AP race' as you call it. Because as a reason for repeating it's' not good for the health and enjoyment of the game. Do we not play games for fun these days? > > Nobody has yet explained why it is a good thing for the only reason to repeat something being not to miss out on new/repeatable achievements on old content, as not adding them would not stop those who would enjoy doing so from playing it Let me explain this to you, since you're a completionist. You've already completed the annual achievements once...that's it, they're done, completed, just because they're annual and you can do them every year does not mean they aren't completed, what you're really stating is that you have OCD and just can't stand to look at something that you already finished that has been provided for someone who perhaps hasn't received the AP for the achievement before. Is that sufficient explanation for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalGirl.2370 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 > @"Gop.8713" said: > So to recap, OP does not enjoy replaying the festivals every year but struggles to ignore the offered rewards. The proposed solution is that anet should be barred from adding any new content or rewards for players who do enjoy the festivals as they come around year after year. This strikes me as selfish. Incredibly so really . . . Where did he say he is against new content ? If you actually read what he said and read some replies he gave, you'd understand that he likes the game and wants NEW content, not achievement for recycled stale, dull festivals that he has done million times already. He probably wouldn't even make the thread if they added W3 or anything new...not achievs that are like "oh do this AGAIN .. for idk what time in a row, except now you get X reward" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalGirl.2370 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > @"Dalec.9853" said: > > > @"kratan.4619" said: > > > Why does it bother you at all, I can go back and get the few AP offered and you do not have to, I am not really seeing the problem here. This does not affect you in any way, other than possibly an argument like, "I don't want to redo the content to get the new AP offered and nobody else should be able to so that I won't fall behind in the AP race." > > > > It bothers me as I wish to complete achievements; if you do not play the game that way that is fine, but I and others do. Most might just be accepting of it just being the way it is done, but I am questioning it. You correctly state that I do not want to redo content, old content that is no longer enjoyable to me, but feel the need to because of the achievement additions, not because the content has suddenly been reworked or became enjoyable. I am not saying nobody else should be able to play it, I encourage those that would enjoy it to do it! so it's not that nobody else should be able to, but nobody should HAVE to do it or risk falling behind in the 'AP race' as you call it. Because as a reason for repeating it's' not good for the health and enjoyment of the game. Do we not play games for fun these days? > > > > Nobody has yet explained why it is a good thing for the only reason to repeat something being not to miss out on new/repeatable achievements on old content, as not adding them would not stop those who would enjoy doing so from playing it > > Let me explain this to you, since you're a completionist. You've already completed the annual achievements once...that's it, they're done, completed, just because they're annual and you can do them every year does not mean they aren't completed, what you're really stating is that you have OCD and just can't stand to look at something that you already finished that has been provided for someone who perhaps hasn't received the AP for the achievement before. Is that sufficient explanation for you? That's not what he is stating. What he is stating is that they should've worked to make w3 (for example) instead of working on adding some achievements to make people REDO what they have done loads of times before already. It's a lazy way to bring people in and make them play content - basically - "we know it's boring and you've done this already but this time we will make you repeat it yet again just for a different reward" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalec.9853 Posted April 3, 2019 Author Share Posted April 3, 2019 I am not against new content so not sure why some replies seem to think that, I guess not bothering to read? It is just my belief that achievements should be for something you do once and thats it, it's completed; that doesn't mean I think they should be unavailable to players that missed them in the future, or that the content should be unavailable after doing so, just the achievements once done, should be done, not lazily reused to somehow encourage those that otherwise would not repeat something yet again to do so. The content should be a good enough reason on its own to replay it if enjoyable, overusing the 'repeat action, receieve reward' rubbish other MMOs have relied on shouldn't be good enough for the one that wanted to be different, it's bad game design, but easy as it's known to work. Yes I guess this means I think daily achievements (and whatever name they want to go by in other games) are bad too; though those aren't so bad in this game as unless you only PvE you'd get them without thinking about it sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > So to recap, OP does not enjoy replaying the festivals every year but struggles to ignore the offered rewards. The proposed solution is that anet should be barred from adding any new content or rewards for players who do enjoy the festivals as they come around year after year. This strikes me as selfish. Incredibly so really . . . > > Where did he say he is against new content ? > @"Dalec.9853" said: > > @"Etria.3642" said: > > Are you referring to the annual achievement? That is easily obtainable just by running sab in infantile and then regular. No need for tribulation and I believe it was to bring it in line with the other festivals. > The annual achievements for all events and for SAB also the master of coins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalGirl.2370 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 > @"Gop.8713" said: > > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > So to recap, OP does not enjoy replaying the festivals every year but struggles to ignore the offered rewards. The proposed solution is that anet should be barred from adding any new content or rewards for players who do enjoy the festivals as they come around year after year. This strikes me as selfish. Incredibly so really . . . > > > > Where did he say he is against new content ? > > > @"Dalec.9853" said: > > > @"Etria.3642" said: > > > Are you referring to the annual achievement? That is easily obtainable just by running sab in infantile and then regular. No need for tribulation and I believe it was to bring it in line with the other festivals. > > The annual achievements for all events and for SAB also the master of coins and again ... where does he say he is against content ? he just says no to achievements that make you redo old content that has been done loads of times before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hashberry.4510 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 What makes you think you can bargain for content? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentMoore.9453 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Since you keep saying that people aren't reading your post, OP, let's go through it point-by-point (since I find it a strange complaint to have). _'Stop adding new achievements to old content. If the content hasn't really been updated in a way that would make it fresh and enjoyable, then it's just spoiling that content'_ If the charm of SAB (or any GW2 festival, really) is the predictable aspects (Labyrinth, Tixx's, Lucky Envelopes, etc.) of the content, why can't new content or achievements added to it be considered a boon? Why does a new facet to old content 'spoil' it? In my experience, most people who play through SAB do it: a.) To jump on things and cackle at their friends when they fall off the crumbly leaves in w1z3 b.) To obtain weapon skins or items they couldn't afford with baubles the previous year c.) To remember what pain feels like in tribulation mode. None of these things is affected by or detracted from with the addition of new achievements. _'[Content] we may have originally enjoyed but repeating it yet again is just annoying'_ I question how much enjoyment you get from SAB, a yearly festival, if you don't enjoy it every year when it comes back. People are usually hopping in their seats for this one, AP or not. _'People might say to just not do the achievements then, but that's not really an option for completionists'_ I mean, it 100% _is_ an option for you. As a completionist myself, I just go in and do the content, enjoying myself in SAB along the way as I often run through it for goals beyond AP or achievements. At no point do I say 'wait a minute, how dare I have to run this content I'd run anyway for this yearly festival I do every year!' _'It's not a good way to encourage people to play or return to the game; NEW content is the way'_ And I say it's not mutually exclusive. _Both_ things are good for the game and _both_ things spark interest for new and old players. Is it the new achievements that are bad, or do you really expect yearly festivals to never have new content added unless it's 'fresh' as you describe it? While we're at it, what constitutes fresh? Does the boomerang count? Do the mega bombs count? The quest NPCs in the levels? The interactables in the hub? You appear to be annoyed about being given new content because you feel it's not 'enough' for the $0 price tag associated with SAB. That comes across a bit odd, and it doesn't inspire ArenaNet to add further content if this is the feedback they get from these adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 I enjoy being rewarded for repeating content. AP is a nice carrot for me. I would absolutely approve of more repeatable AP esp in festivals - in fact I preferred when they just repeated the entire ap set each year rather than the 50ap block one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalGirl.2370 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 > @"AgentMoore.9453" said: > You appear to be annoyed about being given new content It's not new content, it's 6 year old recycled content being brought back with 1-2 new achievements added to make people play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentMoore.9453 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > @"AgentMoore.9453" said: > > > You appear to be annoyed about being given new content > > It's not new content, it's 6 year old recycled content being brought back with 1-2 new achievements added to make people play it. Yes, I'm sure everyone has fond memories of collecting coins for a Choya and having access to two new weapons through an exploratory quest line that encourages people to find the hidden rooms throughout the levels. Oh wait. They added that _this year._ It is new content, it's just not as 'fresh' as you want. Whatever that means. And still, no one is being _made_ to do anything, pay anything, or even overextend themselves. The achievements are easy, fast, and particularly entertaining when you try to compete with a friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalGirl.2370 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 > @"AgentMoore.9453" said: > > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > > @"AgentMoore.9453" said: > > > > > You appear to be annoyed about being given new content > > > > It's not new content, it's 6 year old recycled content being brought back with 1-2 new achievements added to make people play it. > > Yes, I'm sure everyone has fond memories of collecting coins for a Choya and having access to two new weapons through an exploratory quest line that encourages people to find the hidden rooms throughout the levels. > > Oh wait. They added that _this year._ > > It is new content, it's just not as 'fresh' as you want. Whatever that means. And still, no one is being _made_ to do anything, pay anything, or even overextend themselves. The achievements are easy, fast, and particularly entertaining when you try to compete with a friend. I wouldn't call single adventure much of a "content"... just an achievement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > So to recap, OP does not enjoy replaying the festivals every year but struggles to ignore the offered rewards. The proposed solution is that anet should be barred from adding any new content or rewards for players who do enjoy the festivals as they come around year after year. This strikes me as selfish. Incredibly so really . . . > > > > > > Where did he say he is against new content ? > > > > > @"Dalec.9853" said: > > > > @"Etria.3642" said: > > > > Are you referring to the annual achievement? That is easily obtainable just by running sab in infantile and then regular. No need for tribulation and I believe it was to bring it in line with the other festivals. > > > The annual achievements for all events and for SAB also the master of coins > > and again ... where does he say he is against content ? > he just says no to achievements that make you redo old content that has been done loads of times before In the quoted text. From the OP. That you asked for . . . But you have correctly identified the actual problem, which is that the OP feels 'forced' to play content they don't enjoy. What you have not yet been able to understand is that this is the OP's problem, not anet's or anyone else's. And yes, for the OP to insist that anet should deny other players who enjoy these little additions bc the OP cannot control their own problem is incredibly selfish . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 > @"Dalec.9853" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > So to recap, OP does not enjoy replaying the festivals every year but struggles to ignore the offered rewards. The proposed solution is that anet should be barred from adding any new content or rewards for players who do enjoy the festivals as they come around year after year. This strikes me as selfish. Incredibly so really . . . > > > > > > Where did he say he is against new content ? > > > > > @"Dalec.9853" said: > > > > @"Etria.3642" said: > > > > Are you referring to the annual achievement? That is easily obtainable just by running sab in infantile and then regular. No need for tribulation and I believe it was to bring it in line with the other festivals. > > > The annual achievements for all events and for SAB also the master of coins > > It's still the same old SAB, did I somehow miss the last worlds being added? No? Oh you're just deliberately being stupid then. > > **Achievements are not content** I don't think your attitude is helping you to win very many ppl over to your cause but it is unsurprising that someone with such a selfish perspective would be unable to consider that . . . Your complaint is that you don't want to do the new content bc it requires you to replay existing content. That is odd for someone playing a game that consists almost entirely of replaying existing content on a daily or weekly rotation, but w/e. One -- I would daresay rational -- response to your situation would be to not play the content. The problem is your solution is for anet not to make the content available, as though how the game affects you should be their only consideration . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khisanth.2948 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 If the only content that is allowed to give rewards are those that have been updated then most of the things in game shouldn't give any rewards at all. > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > @"Dalec.9853" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > Existing content isn’t ruined as those new achievements/activities are optional. Those who are completionists should have already accepted that they’ll do things sometimes which they do not enjoy. > > > > So still the answer of oh that's just the way it is, because why make things better right? > > No, it's because the feelings of discomfort completitonists reportedly experience over incomplete achievements is an issue of mental health, and not of video game design. > > The reason game developers show up to work every day is to design and create ways of getting players to play their game. End stop. Period. What you are asking is antithetical to their job description. > > The developers shouldn't have to show up to work every day. ArenaNet should recognize the fact that they already worked last year and just pay them. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diak Atoli.2085 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 The OP has failed to present a convincing argument that adding achievements to old content is a problem for the player base. Given the responses in this thread, adding these achievements seems to even have had a positive effect. As such, there's no reason ArenaNet should change their approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaklex.6308 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > @"Dalec.9853" said: > > > > @"kratan.4619" said: > > > > Why does it bother you at all, I can go back and get the few AP offered and you do not have to, I am not really seeing the problem here. This does not affect you in any way, other than possibly an argument like, "I don't want to redo the content to get the new AP offered and nobody else should be able to so that I won't fall behind in the AP race." > > > > > > It bothers me as I wish to complete achievements; if you do not play the game that way that is fine, but I and others do. Most might just be accepting of it just being the way it is done, but I am questioning it. You correctly state that I do not want to redo content, old content that is no longer enjoyable to me, but feel the need to because of the achievement additions, not because the content has suddenly been reworked or became enjoyable. I am not saying nobody else should be able to play it, I encourage those that would enjoy it to do it! so it's not that nobody else should be able to, but nobody should HAVE to do it or risk falling behind in the 'AP race' as you call it. Because as a reason for repeating it's' not good for the health and enjoyment of the game. Do we not play games for fun these days? > > > > > > Nobody has yet explained why it is a good thing for the only reason to repeat something being not to miss out on new/repeatable achievements on old content, as not adding them would not stop those who would enjoy doing so from playing it > > > > Let me explain this to you, since you're a completionist. You've already completed the annual achievements once...that's it, they're done, completed, just because they're annual and you can do them every year does not mean they aren't completed, what you're really stating is that you have OCD and just can't stand to look at something that you already finished that has been provided for someone who perhaps hasn't received the AP for the achievement before. Is that sufficient explanation for you? > > That's not what he is stating. What he is stating is that they should've worked to make w3 (for example) instead of working on adding some achievements to make people REDO what they have done loads of times before already. It's a lazy way to bring people in and make them play content - basically - "we know it's boring and you've done this already but this time we will make you repeat it yet again just for a different reward" Doesn't everyone realize that the person behind SAB voluntarily left the company when the layoffs where announced, remember it was pet project of a couple of devs, one that we know for sure isn't there...so who's going to take on the mantle now and make new worlds...adding achievements to the existing worlds and the other stuff is probably the best you can hope for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauried.5608 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Also, why do people assume that all game content is only intended to be done once ? The time it takes to make new content is far longer than the time it takes a player to go thru that content, so there must be mechanisms in place to reuse existing content many times . Many of the threads on this forum is all about when will there be more new content , and thats simply because players are burning thru the existing content so fast that they run out of things to do, because they have done it all. Any mechanism that makes the original zones look busy is great for the game , as new players will actually see other players when they start playing , unlike some MMos where all the early zones are deserted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 > @"mauried.5608" said: > Also, why do people assume that all game content is only intended to be done once ? > The time it takes to make new content is far longer than the time it takes a player to go thru that content, so there must be mechanisms in place to reuse existing content many times . > Many of the threads on this forum is all about when will there be more new content , and thats simply because players are burning thru the existing content so fast that they run out of things to do, because they have done it all. > Any mechanism that makes the original zones look busy is great for the game , as new players will actually see other players when they start playing , unlike some MMos where all the early zones are deserted. > Unless it’s a farm, players will burn through any content added to the existing maps and those would be dead again too. It’s just the content added to existing maps would be exhausted much faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 > @"Dalec.9853" said: > If the content hasn't really been updated in a way that would make it fresh and enjoyable, then it's just spoiling that content that we may have originally enjoyed but repeating it yet again is just annoying. The latest example of this is SAB, [...] Annual Achievements is something that was added to **all** events since last (?) year. It is a new design, and it would be silly to not add it to a single event just because you don't enjoy replaying it. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Removing, or not implementing content (whether someone believes it is content or not) because some feel it isn't 'fun' would be unfair to those that enjoy such additions. Truly, if every bit of content some portion of the playerbase found 'not fun' were removed/never implemented, there would be a very, very small game. Personally, there are several aspects of the game I don't find enjoyable; but, I'm not sure anyone should/can begrudge those that do. Including SAB. (I'm only 21 AP away from a 400-Gem Chest, but SAB isn't appealing enough for me to venture inside, again.) Side note: This reminds me of the old lamentations about other sources of AP, and how players were 'forced' to seek it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauried.5608 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Most of the threads here are all based on the assumption that the only players who matter are existing L80s , and that Anet has to keep this portion of the game happy. Its much better financially for Anet to attract 50 new LV1 players, than to lose 50 existing L80 players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayakaru.6583 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 > @"Westenev.5289" said: > There are some... very interesting viewpoints that are very creative (if not slightly contrary), like the obligation to play content you hate for AP. It's not an idea I subscribe to, but you do you... I guess? > > What this thread suggests is that players who enjoy the content should play unrewarded, simply so a handfull of people can sleep well at night knowing they won't feel obligated to participate in events. If that's the case, how about we scrap the whole AP system? No developer should ever have the gall to suggest how I should play their game through such horrid passive agressive messaging. /s To me, personally, AP is always a reason to consider replaying content. I really dislike SAB, but in this case, the sheer amount of AP that can be earned *makes it worth the effort*. There is also content i wont play if the AP is too little, or viceversa, there’s content i’ll keep playing long after I’ve earned all AP from it. Long story short, AP is a good incentive for me, but not a defining factor. And I’ll always urge anet to make/add more achievements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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