<Suggestion> open voice options for gender variant players

[Leo G.4501]

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > Not saying that it would, but if something like this were implemented, then what next? Would it ever end? Would it potentially escalate to something more mature themed?

>

> Changes like these would hopefully never stop. The day they announce no more new features will be added will the be the day I stop playing the game. If those features support more diversity, all the better. I still don't see how this has any relation to mature themes, I think you're misunderstanding something.

 

The problem is how it's worded. Asking for voice customization options? Pretty unbiased. Asking for LGBT features or gender spectrum inclusion? Not everyone agrees with that stuff.

 

I mean, which sounds better: requesting more stories including racial tensions between humans and charr? Or asking for stories focused on humans and condemning charr and other races? You probably get some of the same stuff regardless but one has more baggage.

[Zexanima.7851]

> @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > Not saying that it would, but if something like this were implemented, then what next? Would it ever end? Would it potentially escalate to something more mature themed?

> >

> > Changes like these would hopefully never stop. The day they announce no more new features will be added will the be the day I stop playing the game. If those features support more diversity, all the better. I still don't see how this has any relation to mature themes, I think you're misunderstanding something.

>

> The problem is how it's worded. Asking for voice customization options? Pretty unbiased. Asking for LGBT features or gender spectrum inclusion? Not everyone agrees with that stuff.

 

Not everyone agrees the world is round but it is. My point being it's not really relevant if people agree or not. The gender spectrum is a thing, they deserve inclusion. End of story. This change is a good way to implement some inclusion without it having to be solely for that purpose.

>

> I mean, which sounds better: requesting more stories including racial tensions between humans and charr? Or asking for stories focused on humans and condemning charr and other races? You probably get some of the same stuff regardless but one has more baggage.

 

I don't really get how this is related to the topic or what point you're trying to make.

 

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Fine with me. I would not use it but I can understand the case for transgender persons who may seek a representation of this part of themselves in the virtual world of Tyria.

[Forgotten Legend.9281]

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> @"ZaeraD.7280"

>

> I can think of a couple of ways they could go about it. The most viable I can think of is that they could add a voice adjustment filter to the game that you set the parameters of at character creation then all voice lines are just fed through that. It might not be perfect but you could at least adjust it close enough.This already happens when you consume something like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endless_Embiggening_Tonic I don't see why they couldn't make this a dynamic option the player could adjust at character creation.

 

you, know... this wouldn't be a bad idea. I've always wanted to be able to modify the pitch of my characters' voices, to further differentiate them from each other. My name is Forgotten Legend, and i'm an Altaholic. i'd like to make some of my characters' voices deeper, and others higher pitched. it wouldn't be too far fetched to believe that someone else would push the filter to the extreme to make their "male" character sound "female", or vice versa. the option alone is enough that people would push the filters that way "just for fun", without even taking into account the concept of gender identity. I've met binary people who's voices sounded opposite their biological gender, so, even if gender identity wasn't even considered, it still makes perfect sense to add a pitch modulation filter at some point. it could even be tested as a single day patch, just like aviation box, bobblehead box, and super adventure box, before they were permanently added into the game as toys or festivals.

 

if added to character creation, it should obviously be available to alter via the total makeover kits, which i would probably use quite a few within launch of this feature...

[Erasculio.2914]

I always become concerned when I see players asking to have characters who are exactly like them, so they can play as "themselves". It feels like those players lose part of the concept that their characters are not them, just an icon through which they interact with the game world. If you believe you are your character and your character are you, you are beginning to lose the difference between what is reality and what is the game world. From there to people believing that things "they" do in the game world can also be done in the real world, it's not much of a leap.

 

If I were ever to make a game, I would have a system in which people can choose to make their characters an exact copy of their own face. The characters in which this option had been chosen would, right at the end of the prologue, suffer all kinds of torture, as the game closes on their crying face. This would hopefully help people realize that no, they are not their character - the character can be hurt or do whatever without it impacting the real person behind the keyboard.

[Nightgunner.2896]

> @"Erasculio.2914" said:

> I always become concerned when I see players asking to have characters who are exactly like them, so they can play as "themselves". It feels like those players lose part of the concept that their characters are not them, just an icon through which they interact with the game world. If you believe you are your character and your character are you, you are beginning to lose the difference between what is reality and what is the game world. From there to people believing that things "they" do in the game world can also be done in the real world, it's not much of a leap.

>

> If I were ever to make a game, I would have a system in which people can choose to make their characters an exact copy of their own face. The characters in which this option had been chosen would, right at the end of the prologue, suffer all kinds of torture, as the game closes on their crying face. This would hopefully help people realize that no, they are not their character - the character can be hurt or do whatever without it impacting the real person behind the keyboard.

 

I believe that game exists and it's called "every game Toby Fox has ever made".

[Leo G.4501]

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > Not saying that it would, but if something like this were implemented, then what next? Would it ever end? Would it potentially escalate to something more mature themed?

> > >

> > > Changes like these would hopefully never stop. The day they announce no more new features will be added will the be the day I stop playing the game. If those features support more diversity, all the better. I still don't see how this has any relation to mature themes, I think you're misunderstanding something.

> >

> > The problem is how it's worded. Asking for voice customization options? Pretty unbiased. Asking for LGBT features or gender spectrum inclusion? Not everyone agrees with that stuff.

>

> Not everyone agrees the world is round but it is. My point being it's not really relevant if people agree or not. The gender spectrum is a thing, they deserve inclusion. End of story. This change is a good way to implement some inclusion without it having to be solely for that purpose.

 

I'm sorry, what dictates deserving inclusion into the game? And how does more playable race options rate on this scale? It's not relevant to me whether people agree or not to add more playable races as a good idea, I think they deserve inclusion. End of story.

 

[EmperorMoth.2709]

> @"ZaeraD.7280" said:

> Hello,

> This is a heartfelt request for a character alteration. I am a transgender, non-binary player. Me and my family all have game versions of ourselves that we play together, but I've found it difficult to play mine. I've considered switching my character's 'gender' in the game to better represent my appearance (I even bought the kit to change up my character), but when I came to voice options I was distressed and at a loss. In real life I have a more 'masculine' body, but certainly not a lower voice (us non-binary people come in endless variations). Either I'm uncomfortable with my character's appearance, or I'm jarred by the voice. My request then, as you might infer, is to have the option of picking any of the human voices (and for the other races for other players?) with any of the 'gender'/body types. It's terrible dealing with gender dysphoria in real life. It would be really nice if I could have a character in the game that didn't cause the same feelings. This isn't asking for any additional content, simply the ability of choose from the voices regardless of my characters appearance.

> Thank you for your time, and I hope you will consider my request. It would mean a lot to me, and no doubt others in our diverse GW2 community!

>

> ~ Zee

 

First off, I would like to thank Zee for bringing this topic up. It takes a great deal of courage to post a request like this on the forums, I want to extend my sympathy for anything that you had to read that was invalidating and disrespectful. I do hope this reply reaches you.

 

Inclusion, in relation to gender, is something we will see more of as time goes by with newer games. Anet has not announced any plans for a Guild Wars 3, so realistically, to keep up with the inclusivity of other games some changes will need to be made to character customization at some point. This will take a great deal of work, whether it be the option to pick your character's voice and/or new body models (this second one would be a bit more intensive). Let's be honest, any suggestion is going to take work, whether it be a change to a festival, more specialized achievements, or a hummingbird skimmer mount (props to the devs that designed the hummingbird it is the most adorable creature).

 

I would like to remind everyone that more options for character customization does not mean less options for you. More options are great for everyone. If you don't want to take advantage of voice customization and models then you don't have to. Just because you would not take advantage of it does not mean it isn't a desired improvement for other individuals. There is a common misconception that representation (among other things) is a metaphorical pie, meaning there is a limited number of slices so if some of those slices are options for more LGBT representation it would take away from everyone else. This is not the case. More options and representations for minority groups does not mean less for majority groups.

 

LGBT inclusion is not a mature topic, Guild Wars 2 already has several characters within the story that fall under the umbrella. That is not an issue.

 

Personally, I would be ecstatic about any change that would offer more diversity and inclusion.

[Swagger.1459]

> @"ZaeraD.7280" said:

> Thank you to the handful of people not being jerks about this. I only posted here because the support desk suggested it. I'm not a troll...???

> I'm quite aware that losing oneself in a game is not healthy, and I assure you that is not the point. I also have a number of other characters made that are not based on my own appearance.

> As for 'just creating the opposite gender'... I'm *non-binary*. If you read my entire post. There is no 'opposite gender'. Even with in the fantasy world of GW2, if their magic and tech could make things perfect, my ideal character STILL WOULDN'T BE BINARY. Aka not a man or a woman, for those of you unfamiliar with the term. So the 'perfect' transition you're thinking of isn't what my character would be looking for.

> Saying you can't have a character of a different age, who is left handed etc. so I should just get over it? Clearly you don't know any trans people. So I'm not even going to engage with you about the misery that comes with it. Just, that, representation is nice????

> I can understand the programming issues. I'm hopeful, but not expecting this to be possible. It is possible in other games, where they just left the choices open. But I know that it can be hard to change programming that's already there.

> It's just nice to point out to developers that we exist??

> Anyway, I doubt I will continue adding on to this, as the shear level misunderstanding and cruelty is upsetting. But I do hope the development teams sees this and has an open mind for the future.

>

> ~ Zee

 

A few things I want to comment on, and some things for you to consider...

 

First, I think many of us share the same thoughts as @"Illconceived Was Na.9781"....

 

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> If ANet ever adds voice options to the game, sure, I think it would be fine to allow males to choose traditionally female voices or vice versa. In the meantime, the OP is in the same boat as everyone else: none of us get any options for voice and hardly any options for looks in the first place.

 

Things I want you to consider based off of your own thoughts and words...

 

"It's terrible dealing with gender dysphoria in real life. It would be really nice if I could have a character in the game that didn't cause the same feelings. This isn't asking for any additional content, simply the ability of choose from the voices regardless of my characters appearance.

Thank you for your time, and I hope you will consider my request. It would mean a lot to me, and no doubt others in our diverse GW2 community!"

 

In particular from the above quote... "our diverse GW2 community"

 

Then go on to dismiss the very same "diverse GW2 community" by stating... "Saying you can't have a character of a different age, who is left handed etc. so I should just get over it? Clearly you don't know any trans people. So I'm not even going to engage with you about the misery that comes with it. Just, that, representation is nice????" And this... "the shear level misunderstanding and cruelty is upsetting. But I do hope the development teams sees this and has an open mind for the future."

 

I'm not going to be negative to you, and I'm not trying to be rude, but there are all sorts of humans playing this game that may also like to have equal "representation" through character generation options. Being dismissive to those who are "of a different age".. or "left handed"... or "etc" (endless numbers of differences between us humans)… isn't really strengthening your request. You want to create a character more like you, and that's fine as an idea, but there are other players who may desire to play characters just like themselves and they can't... Would it not be fair for the devs to make changes for other unique humans too, just like you want for yourself?

 

Having said all of that... When do we just accept a game for being a game? Why does a game have to reflect real life humans in every aspect? What characteristics are given priority over others on the development schedule? How many millions upon millions upon millions of dollars AND years of work do we need the team to devote to making sure that ALL members of "our diverse GW2 community" (aka the human race) are given equal "representation" through character options? Would it be worth the devs efforts to replicate realistic human options over devoting those resources to making an extra great fantasy game? Do you understand my points?

[Neural.1824]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

 

> (I will never not associate the actor with her).

 

Same. I can't not hear Ivanova whenever i hear "how many ales have I had?"

 

Regarding the OP. I'm not against the idea, but I think making those changes would probably involve too much time taken away from further game development. :/

 

 

 

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > I don't see why they couldn't make this a dynamic option the player could adjust at character creation.

> >

> > As was posited before; the old code probably can't be modified to do this at this point and even so, is it worth their time/resources to do it.

>

> If their old code is so archaic and closely coupled they can't go back and make changes like this then I would say they need to spend the time to refactor their code.

 

I am certain that wouldn't be necessary in this case. They added so many options that you can check/uncheck in the settings within the past two years that adding such a voice option to the character creation regarding the linking to each gender's voice should be doable.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

Warframe offers customization of flipping between male/female voice overs (when you get to that portion of the quest anyhow, oh and spoiler). It should be noted it that it doesn't offer complete customization to make "yourself" in game (to avoid spoilers: it also has no age slider that hinders such desires).

 

If you want to swap voices. Sure. Idc.

 

Asking to add more dialogue, or race swapping is expensive. Practically speaking I don't think ANET should or could go that route.

 

D:

[Weindrasi.3805]

The OP is asking for an option that would require minimal extra effort on the part of Arenanet, for a small subset of the population.

My suggestion is, Arenanet can make this change in a way that targets much more of the population--but it would require more of their effort. AKA: ADD MORE VOICE OPTIONS. They could take the voices already there, and use computer tech to make them higher or lower in pitch, then brand them as new voice options. Then sell voice modification for gems.

I'm not trans, and cannot relate on that level, but I definitely dislike the voice on some of my characters. I'd like some of my female charr to have deeper, rougher voices and my male human to have a higher pitched voice. Beyond that, it would be nice to make each of my characters of the same race/sex option sound a bit different from one another. I would pay money for that, as would many other players.

Part of a voice modulation kit would, of course, include more gender-neutral voices.

 

Oh yeah. And to all those people criticizing the OP's request, or their viewing their character as themself, or whatever the heck else-- y'all are silly. The OP feels how the OP feels and trying to "logic" them out of it is pointless.

Voice modifiers as a character creation option is a GREAT idea, and I think we should all get on board with that regardless of our reason for wanting it.

[Chichimec.9364]

> @"Weindrasi.3805" said:

> The OP is asking for an option that would require minimal extra effort on the part of Arenanet, for a small subset of the population.

> My suggestion is, Arenanet can make this change in a way that targets much more of the population--but it would require more of their effort. AKA: ADD MORE VOICE OPTIONS. They could take the voices already there, and use computer tech to make them higher or lower in pitch, then brand them as new voice options. Then sell voice modification for gems.

> I'm not trans, and cannot relate on that level, but I definitely dislike the voice on some of my characters. I'd like some of my female charr to have deeper, rougher voices and my male human to have a higher pitched voice. Beyond that, it would be nice to make each of my characters of the same race/sex option sound a bit different from one another. I would pay money for that, as would many other players.

> Part of a voice modulation kit would, of course, include more gender-neutral voices.

>

> Oh yeah. And to all those people criticizing the OP's request, or their viewing their character as themself, or whatever the heck else-- y'all are silly. The OP feels how the OP feels and trying to "logic" them out of it is pointless.

> Voice modifiers as a character creation option is a GREAT idea, and I think we should all get on board with that regardless of our reason for wanting it.

 

This. Back in the early 90's, Apple allowed people to change their system sounds and in response sound packages became a thing. You could install as many as you wanted and switch back and forth between them easily. Users were able to create and share sound packages so there were not only male, female, and neutral voices but also themed packages. I remember one made up of Star Trek voices and a hilarious one done with Elvis clips. Voice customization is still a thing. My sister has her Siri set to sound like an English butler and she loves it. Personally, I would love to have a variety of character voices available in GW2. As an altaholic it's jarring to me to have different alts speaking in the same voice. If voice packages were available for gems I'd definitely be a customer. In fact, I wonder if that's one of the reasons Anent suggested the OP post their request here in the forums, to gauge if there is an interest in voice customization. I suspect there would be a lot of interest in it.