April 9 WvW changes

[Simzani.4318]

Nice to see that fully staffed skill and balance team at work.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

 

Now ANET needs to only control one variable (health) instead of two (health + damage reduction). If it's too fast/slow they won't need to worry about adjusting two things at once!

 

D:

 

 

[Ni In.6578]

> @"Kylden Ar.3724" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"Blockhead Magee.3092" said:

> > > The devs who made this choice must love the ktrains.

> > Just as much as the fight guilds loved sieging T3, no doubt.

>

> Why would they need to? Since they love the fights _just so much_ would they not just meet in the open fields for glorious battle? /s

 

That makes zero sense. Yeah, you're going to have the PPT defenders. Who will hopefully call out on /team that they need help... which might bring a fight guild from another map to have that open field fight.

 

Guilds call it a GvG/skrim when they explicitly meet somewhere to fight. I find organic fights a bit more fun than structured fights.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> > @"Clownmug.8357" said:

> > So there's no point in upgrading anything now?

>

> Think the walls and Gates for higher tiers will still have higher hp. Not to mention cannons, mortars, oils, extra guards and waypoints.

 

That is how I understood the changes.

 

Before as the walls et al went up in tier, their HP went up, but they also gained damage resistance. So not only did you need to inflict more overall damage from catas et all to bring down the wall, because of the DR it gained, it meant you had to hit it more often to generate that overall damage.

 

As another poster mentioned in the forums, the reverse isn't true when it comes to repair, which means a T3 wall can literally be repaired faster than it can be damaged because of the DR.

 

As I understand it, the DR from objectives has been removed, and now T2/T3 walls only have the higher HP.

[reddie.5861]

> @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> > @"reddie.5861" said:

> > > @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> > > Scouts just got a whole lot more valuable. Time to give out those participation slots.

> >

> > to bad the scene is dead and no1 really cares to win or lose :D

>

> Weird, I still see at least a qued map and opposing map blobs 7 days a week.

 

yes what has that to do with win or lose?

 

i only play WvW when i login, but last few days i dont wanna play gw2 at all cus we are t1..

there is no fun fighting/playing vs certain servers. i dont mind losing a fight a 100 times but when other servers dont wanna fight unless the odds are nearly 100% to win ye im out.

its like going around with 3 thiefs/rangers/mesmers/revs and burst all at same time on 1 single guy, woohoo the joy that guy got ripped apart and it took us zero effort to do so yes this gives me so much pleasure ;). obviously not thus why i rather die 100 times in a good fight then fighting something that gives me absolutely zero challange

t1 on EU is just massive blobs everywhere roaming even goes in a blob from a roamer eye i mean u dont roam with 5/6+ people well in t1 EU they do which is fine if they enjoy it go ahead, i dont so i barely login hoping we will drop down in tiers to have good fights again. pretty much whole server wants to get out of t1 cus of this shitty fights so no WvW isnt all about winning. If WvW would reward people to be in T1 and actually win im pretty sure that current people in T1 wouldnt be there anymore. there are far better EU servers out there but they just dont wanna PPT cus of shitty fights in T1 but give em rewards that are worth it and EU will completely change.

 

what im trying to say is better EU servers arent in T1, then again im not saying current T1 servers are bad but they dont stand a chance vs better fighting servers who would just rape the current T1 servers back into their spawn for aslong as they wish. which is what most servers do they attack the garri, then all ppt people fly in and they just get farmed over and over, no1 wants to take the god damn garri but they just wanna farm / fights :D

[Tinnel.4369]

> @"reddie.5861" said:

> > @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> > > @"reddie.5861" said:

> > > > @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> > > > Scouts just got a whole lot more valuable. Time to give out those participation slots.

> > >

> > > to bad the scene is dead and no1 really cares to win or lose :D

> >

> > Weird, I still see at least a qued map and opposing map blobs 7 days a week.

>

> yes what has that to do with win or lose?

>

> i only play WvW when i login, but last few days i dont wanna play gw2 at all cus we are t1..

> there is no fun fighting/playing vs certain servers. i dont mind losing a fight a 100 times but when other servers dont wanna fight unless the odds are nearly 100% to win ye im out.

> its like going around with 3 thiefs/rangers/mesmers/revs and burst all at same time on 1 single guy, woohoo the joy that guy got ripped apart and it took us zero effort to do so yes this gives me so much pleasure ;). obviously not thus why i rather die 100 times in a good fight then fighting something that gives me absolutely zero challange

> t1 on EU is just massive blobs everywhere roaming even goes in a blob from a roamer eye i mean u dont roam with 5/6+ people well in t1 EU they do which is fine if they enjoy it go ahead, i dont so i barely login hoping we will drop down in tiers to have good fights again. pretty much whole server wants to get out of t1 cus of this kitten fights so no WvW isnt all about winning. If WvW would reward people to be in T1 and actually win im pretty sure that current people in T1 wouldnt be there anymore. there are far better EU servers out there but they just dont wanna PPT cus of kitten fights in T1 but give em rewards that are worth it and EU will completely change.

>

> what im trying to say is better EU servers arent in T1, then again im not saying current T1 servers are bad but they dont stand a chance vs better fighting servers who would just kitten the current T1 servers back into their spawn for aslong as they wish. which is what most servers do they attack the garri, then all ppt people fly in and they just get farmed over and over, no1 wants to take the god kitten garri but they just wanna farm / fights :D

 

It has everything to do with "the scene is dead", which I believe you went on to contradict your self on in this post by describing blobs everywhere.

 

So, if it's obviously not dead, what are all these people doing if not trying to win and not lose at everything from a 1v1 to blob fights, you contradict yourself again in this post where you describe people that don't fight unless they can win. That indicates to me people care about winning and not losing.

[Blocki.4931]

This is a healthy change. Nobody enjoys playing the game when you look at the enemy keeps that they have controlled for 6 days. Big groups wouldn't have an issue sieging either way, but it takes forever with constant defenders respawning etc. Now smaller groups WILL be able to be more successful as well and sneaking an objective is way more valuable. Objectives shouldn't be held by the same team forever. Enable some healthy back and forth, because that's what the mode is supposed to be.

 

Besides upgrading structures is still worth something if you want to win, because they still give higher points per tick. Doesn't really matter because winning isn't rewarded but still.

[Optimator.3589]

PPT is a means of manipulating matchups for the following week. Nothing more. "Winning" the PPT game only means you finish your pips a little faster, and can mean a miserable time if it propels a server like SoS into the cancer fiesta known as T1.

 

The net effect of this patch is that the siegehumpers are going to be forced to choose between fighting or running away more frequently, and that's not a bad thing.

[Vova.2640]

It is a good patch. Breaking into objective needed to be made easier.

 

My concern now is stuff flipping too fast. Anet might need to look at increasing base HP of tower/keep lords to compensate for faster break-in. This would also give more opportunity for fights over objectives.

[cobbah.3102]

Still broken game

[Shroud.2307]

As someone who regularly enjoys pestering offending servers by repeatedly building catapults or trebuchets during low activity hours to force people to come to me for fights or so I can take the objective if they won't... I am pleased with this change (:

 

If you won't come out **I'M COMING IN.**

[Mokk.2397]

Although I agree with the changes ,the implementation is premature .This for the time being will give over stacked servers even more advantage .Instead of concentrating on a single target they can now attack multiple targets at the same time yet still maintaining a numbers advantage.All be it smaller groups can take a target much quicker but against larger populated servers it will be harder for the smaller groups to defend .The argument that it brings the defending groups out into the battle field to fight is an inaccurate presumption .This will only allow large groups to bag farm small groups more successfully.I think this is might push less populated servers into their spawns without choice.

I think the devs should have waited until the WvW restructuring before bringing this improvement in.Bad timing.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> As someone who regularly enjoys pestering offending servers by repeatedly building catapults or trebuchets during low activity hours to force people to come to me for fights or so I can take the objective if they won't... I am pleased with this change (:

>

> If you won't come out **I'M COMING IN.**

 

Absofreakinlutely.

[hunkamania.7561]

I still see a bunch of skill clickers using ac's and running from fights

[X T D.6458]

What an idiotic, unbalanced, and poorly thought out change...Well it was pretty clear this alliance garbage was going to turn WvW into an EoTM ktrain, so I guess this is just preparation...GG...

 

 

[XenesisII.1540]

"We want to fight in the open field!"

"We want you to get out of your keep!"

"We want you to get off your siege!"

"We want to break into your keeps faster!"

...

Where did all the defenders go?"

 

Not that I disagree with the change, but be careful on what you wish for. While "fighters" like to farm defenders, defenders don't like being farmed and if this is all tilted too much it might just become a case of let it cap we'll just get it back when they leave. Player's who aren't fighters are not going to suddenly turn into fighters because of this change.

 

 

[steki.1478]

> @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> "We want to fight in the open field!"

> "We want you to get out of your keep!"

> "We want you to get off your siege!"

> "We want to break into your keeps faster!"

> ...

> Where did all the defenders go?"

>

> Not that I disagree with the change, but be careful on what you wish for. While "fighters" like to farm defenders, defenders don't like being farmed and if this is all tilted too much it might just become a case of let it cap we'll just get it back when they leave. Player's who aren't fighters are not going to suddenly turn into fighters because of this change.

>

>

 

Then they dont deserve to keep t3 objectives. There's plenty of farmable currencies, NPC escorts and mobs to kill in pve.

[steki.1478]

> @"Mokk.2397" said:

> Although I agree with the changes ,the implementation is premature .This for the time being will give over stacked servers even more advantage .Instead of concentrating on a single target they can now attack multiple targets at the same time yet still maintaining a numbers advantage.All be it smaller groups can take a target much quicker but against larger populated servers it will be harder for the smaller groups to defend .The argument that it brings the defending groups out into the battle field to fight is an inaccurate presumption .This will only allow large groups to bag farm small groups more successfully.I think this is might push less populated servers into their spawns without choice.

> I think the devs should have waited until the WvW restructuring before bringing this improvement in.Bad timing.

 

Servers who blob around commanders dont split their group most of the time. Otherwise there's no point of having a commander. Is it better for general ppt coverage? Yes. Is it needed? Not really.

 

This change doesn't need to bring defenders out, but it at least wont hold them in for hours. Defense should never be dominant in any aspect of the game, whether it's combat or objectives. If more populated servers are farming less populated ones then maybe they should just drop tiers where population is similar and not ppt 24/7 and expect miracles to happen when they get attacked.

[X T D.6458]

> @"steki.1478" said:

> > @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> > "We want to fight in the open field!"

> > "We want you to get out of your keep!"

> > "We want you to get off your siege!"

> > "We want to break into your keeps faster!"

> > ...

> > Where did all the defenders go?"

> >

> > Not that I disagree with the change, but be careful on what you wish for. While "fighters" like to farm defenders, defenders don't like being farmed and if this is all tilted too much it might just become a case of let it cap we'll just get it back when they leave. Player's who aren't fighters are not going to suddenly turn into fighters because of this change.

> >

> >

>

> Then they dont deserve to keep t3 objectives. There's plenty of farmable currencies, NPC escorts and mobs to kill in pve.

 

Ktraining kills fights and guilds. Not caring about defending drives away militia. Has this not been proven over and over?

[Kylden Ar.3724]

> @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> "We want to fight in the open field!"

> "We want you to get out of your keep!"

> "We want you to get off your siege!"

> "We want to break into your keeps faster!"

> ...

> Where did all the defenders go?"

>

> Not that I disagree with the change, but be careful on what you wish for. While "fighters" like to farm defenders, defenders don't like being farmed and if this is all tilted too much it might just become a case of let it cap we'll just get it back when they leave. Player's who aren't fighters are not going to suddenly turn into fighters because of this change.

 

That's a bingo. They will port back to spawn and wait for the zerg to get bored and leave. This will not make the non-fight guilds into them suddenly.

[steki.1478]

> @"X T D.6458" said:

> > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> > > "We want to fight in the open field!"

> > > "We want you to get out of your keep!"

> > > "We want you to get off your siege!"

> > > "We want to break into your keeps faster!"

> > > ...

> > > Where did all the defenders go?"

> > >

> > > Not that I disagree with the change, but be careful on what you wish for. While "fighters" like to farm defenders, defenders don't like being farmed and if this is all tilted too much it might just become a case of let it cap we'll just get it back when they leave. Player's who aren't fighters are not going to suddenly turn into fighters because of this change.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Then they dont deserve to keep t3 objectives. There's plenty of farmable currencies, NPC escorts and mobs to kill in pve.

>

> Ktraining kills fights and guilds. Not caring about defending drives away militia. Has this not been proven over and over?

 

So dont do them? If enemy doesnt want to fight, dont spawn camp them, just flip their stuff and throw siege at them. I cant believe that everyone in these threads is constantly outnumbered by enemies in every single matchup and every part of the day.

[borgs.6103]

> @"Kylden Ar.3724" said:

> > @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> > "We want to fight in the open field!"

> > "We want you to get out of your keep!"

> > "We want you to get off your siege!"

> > "We want to break into your keeps faster!"

> > ...

> > Where did all the defenders go?"

> >

> > Not that I disagree with the change, but be careful on what you wish for. While "fighters" like to farm defenders, defenders don't like being farmed and if this is all tilted too much it might just become a case of let it cap we'll just get it back when they leave. Player's who aren't fighters are not going to suddenly turn into fighters because of this change.

>

> That's a bingo. They will port back to spawn and wait for the zerg to get bored and leave. This will not make the non-fight guilds into them suddenly.

 

> @"Kylden Ar.3724" said:

> > @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> > "We want to fight in the open field!"

> > "We want you to get out of your keep!"

> > "We want you to get off your siege!"

> > "We want to break into your keeps faster!"

> > ...

> > Where did all the defenders go?"

> >

> > Not that I disagree with the change, but be careful on what you wish for. While "fighters" like to farm defenders, defenders don't like being farmed and if this is all tilted too much it might just become a case of let it cap we'll just get it back when they leave. Player's who aren't fighters are not going to suddenly turn into fighters because of this change.

>

> That's a bingo. They will port back to spawn and wait for the zerg to get bored and leave. This will not make the non-fight guilds into them suddenly.

 

If this would be the case, in the long run scores would actually matter because they would eventually get PPT points from fights - or lack thereof. (i.e. - Don't want to defend? We'll just cap your stuff then. Back-cap it later when we're gone but your scores won't be as high, and those T3'd will be easily taken again when we're back.)

 

It could also potentially encourage splitting up those mega-blobs to cover more territories since a handful of people can cause a lot of damage at a faster rate.

 

IMO this is a good step in the right direction, but will still have bad drawbacks and experiences, until population imbalance gets addressed.

[LetoII.3782]

> @"steki.1478" said:

 

> I cant believe that everyone in these threads is constantly outnumbered by enemies in every single matchup and every part of the day.

 

Very few servers have significant off-hours presence. We've been talking about it since day 2 of head start.

[Luranni.9470]

Just spent 10 minutes working on a detailed feedback post then realised the utter futility of it.

 

Let's make golem week permanent!

[jul.7602]

Said another way:

 

Structural upgrades no longer improve the armor of walls/gates and each tier is just bonus hp.