Increase rewards for pof meta events

[Lexi.1398]

The big reward isn't that much lower than HoT (40s~ on insta sell price, i believe), though it does lack the extra chests each HoT event gets. That said, the only hard PoF meta is serpents ire, the rest are easier than even AB.

 

Last week i committed to realm portal spiker achievement - meaning i did the maws of tormet meta 25 times~ over 2 days - of those, only 4 or 5 got through to the legendary. Why? Well, there was enough people at the event for sure, but next to no one joined squad for organisation, and no one spread out even when i did suggest it.... that meta requires about 4 people in each lane minimum, 12 people spread across 3 lanes, actually even less per lane but to duo or solo a lane requires a fair amount of skill that I don't expect from open world. For maws of torment, there is no timing kills required, no special mechanics (really, the portal spikes only take pressing f -> run to a spot and press f again -> run to another spot and press f, and the places you run to aren't exactly obscure or difficult to reach), you don't need to switch out skills like AB south and DS (swiftness), you don't need to target x and y special enemy, no enemy has particularly specific mechanics except the legendary itself, you just....clear mobs.

 

The balthy's wardogs meta is even easier and less time consuming, but is exceedingly annoying to predict the time it starts for. There's barely even splitting of people here, it just takes people actually....doing the event.

 

Junundu rising is also very simple, but can be discouraging- the first stage, collecting the crystals, goes very slowly- i've /never/ seen it fail any one collection when a decent sized squad is at it and trying, but it does take most of the 10 minutes you get in order to complete all 3. And even then, the crystal collecting absolutely does NOT favour small groups, especially as it can difficult to control skimmers up the ramps and then you have basically no time to deal with all the enemies that will prevent you from mounting up again as the timing on collecting can be tight if even a few peeps are AFKing while it's done (and, i imagine there'd be much leess AFKing during that event were it not 10 minutes of boring and tedious running around).

After that it's a cakewalk, but people do need to split evenly between both forts. Though, if you want junundu whisperer achievement, a champion enemy will spawn just outside of each base at least once right at the end of the escort, because it spawns right at the end it is frequently ignored in favour of killing the cannons/trebs, and so the achievement fails because the champ is the biggest and almost only threat to the junundu.

I frankly forget if this one even gives a raiders chest, though even if doesn't, IMO the only change i'd ever make is with the first event to make it quicker/require less crystals per person.

 

Serpent's Ire is a different can of worms entirely and I would agree that SI rewards, for a meta that doesn't succeed 100% of the time even with fully organised groups, def need a boost.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Katastroff.1045" said:

> I was able to successfully do serpent's ire 2 weeks ago with a core group of about 10-12 players. We did it on the third try, but we had to go spam the event in all those ''big'' meta maps. The result was that more then 50 players showed up. The way i see it, that meta's biggest problem is the loot/time ratio.

>

> -You got 30 mins to find the Branded Forgotten zealot. If you're lucky, you just might get loot from all 5 of them.

> -Then you got the CC phase of the channelling priests. Again if you are lucky, you just might get loot from all 5 of them.

> -Defeat Ysshi Hessani and Pek Rakt Grag, you got 20 mins.

> If all goes well, you're in it for about 45 mins

> Rewards:

> Chest of the Bazaar Raider (once a day per character)

> Intact Mosaic (0-1)

> Chest of the Desert Specialist (0-1)

> Recipe: The Twins' Grieving Insignia (0-1)

> Add to that the loot from the 5 zealot, the 5 channellers and those sparks you killed in the last phase.

>

> -Now go into any meta from HoT and compare your loot for the last 45 mins of the meta. (only those last 45mins because you want to compare apples with apples.)

> -Do the math.

> -Never go back to Vabbi.

 

This morning I walked into Auric Basin about 10 mins before the Octovine meta. That meta was completed by 6mins after the hour. For a grand total of 16 minutes, not including looting/salvaging, I walked away with:

 

1x Amal gemstone

12x Rare items (salvaged into 9 ecto)

a healthy assortment of T5/T6 fine mats, leather, ore and wood.

about 1g worth of vendor trash

3 spirit shards

I also average 1 exotic every 0-1 AB metas.

 

I haven't seen a single octovine event fail in 10 months straight. Average completion time from beginning of event to end is 5 minutes. With a player needing to be on the map at least 10-15 minutes before, and taking another 10 minutes to loot / salvage afterwards, we are talking about a 30 minute investment, which can be repeated every 2 hours.

 

Liquid Aurillium and Invisible Boots (drop from Treasure Mushroom) remain as potential high value rare drops that can be earned while on the map.

 

I'm fairly sure there are at least a couple of PoF / LS S4 metas that I haven't even completed yet...

 

[Zaraki.5784]

It's really simple and it was already proposed many times (though ignored from Anet): add an Amalgamated Gemstone to every PoF meta event (only in regular maps, not LS4 ones).

Fixed, problem solved.

[MoriMoriMori.5349]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> > @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

> > >Increase rewards for pof meta events

> > ..or may be certain other maps with over-the-top gold income per hour need to be further nerfed (who said Silverwastes?), to reach an average income level of the rest of the maps in the game. Just saying B)

>

> nerfing sw won't bring vabbi and whole pof to life

 

Don't see why it won't. Assuming they would nerf SW such that it will produce the same gold/hour PoF maps do, and people stop to care about gold, and will just start to change maps just because they get bored of the scenery. Seems like it may work just fine, to me.

 

And even if this won't work, they could nerf SW and buff PoF maps at the same time, making them slightly more profitable. Actually, it would be wise to introduce a system which would be doing this on regular basis - increase profitability of certain maps for, say, a week, while decreasing profitability of others. Would at least make people to roam the world, instead of dwelling on a single maps for days.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

> Actually, it would be wise to introduce a system which would be doing this on regular basis - increase profitability of certain maps for, say, a week, while decreasing profitability of others. Would at least make people to roam the world, instead of dwelling on a single maps for days.

Interesting idea. I'd suggest more than a week though. Maybe a month or so?

 

 

[phs.6089]

> @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

> > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

> > > >Increase rewards for pof meta events

> > > ..or may be certain other maps with over-the-top gold income per hour need to be further nerfed (who said Silverwastes?), to reach an average income level of the rest of the maps in the game. Just saying B)

> >

> > nerfing sw won't bring vabbi and whole pof to life

>

> Don't see why it won't. Assuming they would nerf SW such that it will produce the same gold/hour PoF maps do, and people stop to care about gold, and will just start to change maps just because they get bored of the scenery. Seems like it may work just fine, to me.

>

> And even if this won't work, they could nerf SW and buff PoF maps at the same time, making them slightly more profitable. Actually, it would be wise to introduce a system which would be doing this on regular basis - increase profitability of certain maps for, say, a week, while decreasing profitability of others. Would at least make people to roam the world, instead of dwelling on a single maps for days.

 

People that stop farming SW, won't go to PoF unless it gets buffed to 12-20 gold per hour and be braindead, so one can watch/listen something and run the meta.

Now if PoF gonna be buffed to SW gold/hours and be braindead, I don't see why SW needs to be nerfed.

To make equal reward HoT needs be nerfed to PoF standards, after SW, thus killing the game.

They nerfed Istan, did that make PoF lively? No it didn't.

[MoriMoriMori.5349]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> > @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

> > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > > @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

> > > > >Increase rewards for pof meta events

> > > > ..or may be certain other maps with over-the-top gold income per hour need to be further nerfed (who said Silverwastes?), to reach an average income level of the rest of the maps in the game. Just saying B)

> > >

> > > nerfing sw won't bring vabbi and whole pof to life

> >

> > Don't see why it won't. Assuming they would nerf SW such that it will produce the same gold/hour PoF maps do, and people stop to care about gold, and will just start to change maps just because they get bored of the scenery. Seems like it may work just fine, to me.

> >

> > And even if this won't work, they could nerf SW and buff PoF maps at the same time, making them slightly more profitable. Actually, it would be wise to introduce a system which would be doing this on regular basis - increase profitability of certain maps for, say, a week, while decreasing profitability of others. Would at least make people to roam the world, instead of dwelling on a single maps for days.

>

> People that stop farming SW, won't go to PoF unless it gets buffed to 12-20 gold per hour and be braindead, so one can watch/listen something and run the meta.

> Now if PoF gonna be buffed to SW gold/hours and be braindead, I don't see why SW needs to be nerfed.

> To make equal reward HoT needs be nerfed to PoF standards, after SW, thus killing the game.

 

So solution seems to be to drop SW's gold income to 10g and less, and/or make it less "braindead" (like, require that at least 3 forts would be under control at the same time to have some progress to the final goal; if only 2 are under control, there is no progress; if it's just one - progress is gradually lost), and either leave PoF maps intact, or buff their income slightly. Overall goal should be more or less equal income throughout all maps.

[phs.6089]

> @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

> > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

> > > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > > > @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

> > > > > >Increase rewards for pof meta events

> > > > > ..or may be certain other maps with over-the-top gold income per hour need to be further nerfed (who said Silverwastes?), to reach an average income level of the rest of the maps in the game. Just saying B)

> > > >

> > > > nerfing sw won't bring vabbi and whole pof to life

> > >

> > > Don't see why it won't. Assuming they would nerf SW such that it will produce the same gold/hour PoF maps do, and people stop to care about gold, and will just start to change maps just because they get bored of the scenery. Seems like it may work just fine, to me.

> > >

> > > And even if this won't work, they could nerf SW and buff PoF maps at the same time, making them slightly more profitable. Actually, it would be wise to introduce a system which would be doing this on regular basis - increase profitability of certain maps for, say, a week, while decreasing profitability of others. Would at least make people to roam the world, instead of dwelling on a single maps for days.

> >

> > People that stop farming SW, won't go to PoF unless it gets buffed to 12-20 gold per hour and be braindead, so one can watch/listen something and run the meta.

> > Now if PoF gonna be buffed to SW gold/hours and be braindead, I don't see why SW needs to be nerfed.

> > To make equal reward HoT needs be nerfed to PoF standards, after SW, thus killing the game.

>

> So solution seems to be to drop SW's gold income to 10g and less, and/or make it less "braindead" (like, require that at least 3 forts would be under control at the same time to have some progress to the final goal; in only 2 are under control, there is no progress; if it's just one - progress is gradually lost), and either leave PoF maps intact, or buff their income slightly. Overall goal should be more or less equal income throughout all maps.

 

SW farmers don't do metas. Solution would be give meta runnes something they want/need from PoF.

I'll emphasize want/need e.g AMG from HoT metas with handful of loot, items for leg gear and leg weapons cus atm that funerary license is pure slap on PoF owners face.

[AlexxxDelta.1806]

> @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

> > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

> > > >Increase rewards for pof meta events

> > > ..or may be certain other maps with over-the-top gold income per hour need to be further nerfed (who said Silverwastes?), to reach an average income level of the rest of the maps in the game. Just saying B)

> >

> > nerfing sw won't bring vabbi and whole pof to life

>

> Don't see why it won't. Assuming they would nerf SW such that it will produce the same gold/hour PoF maps do, and people stop to care about gold, and will just start to change maps just because they get bored of the scenery. Seems like it may work just fine, to me.

>

> And even if this won't work, they could nerf SW and buff PoF maps at the same time, making them slightly more profitable. Actually, it would be wise to introduce a system which would be doing this on regular basis - increase profitability of certain maps for, say, a week, while decreasing profitability of others. Would at least make people to roam the world, instead of dwelling on a single maps for days.

 

You assume that people who used SW for their gold making would suddenly "settle" for less income and happily proceed to play other maps. For every major nerf that has happened on maps like AB or Istan the counterargument to complaints from a big portion of the community was "Well, at least we still have SW." In a game driven mainly by cosmetic rewards, and one that needs gold (or gems) for pretty much everything, that move would be just as likely, if not more , to shoot it in the foot. You can't just make people stop caring about gold when the game itself is built around the fact.

 

Your second suggestion about rotating profitability is interesting but seems so complex to implement that I don't know if it's even feasible.

[misterman.1530]

For me, the single worst part of the POF maps, is the cancer storms (crystal areas in which touching the ground zaps you to death) you have to traverse. Fun (ish) at first, but a pain at other times - epecially if you are trying to do Serpent's Ire. So now I just don't bother. Am supposed to get a recording for something (a robot somewhere - to get a back piece, maybe? Frankly, it's been a while so I can't remember) but have never bothered trying after attempting it for several weeks.

[MoriMoriMori.5349]

> @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said:

> You assume that people who used SW for their gold making would suddenly "settle" for less income and happily proceed to play other maps. For every major nerf that has happened on maps like AB or Istan the counterargument to complaints from a big portion of the community was "Well, at least we still have SW."

I'm pretty much sure of it. Ofc there will be a lot of drama, but people had been living more or less happy in-game life prior to SW even was added to the game, so.. It will calm down, and everybody (including economy) will adjust, given some time. Humans are very adaptive species, that's at the core of their success worldwide ;) Imo, Anet should have never allowed things like SW and Ishtan happen in the first place, that would save us all drama caused by its current gradual removal, when they finally realized it's not that much healthy thing.

 

As for cosmetics, nobody ever promised players are entitled to buy all of them with gold in any foreseeable future. There is still gem-to-gold conversion option for most impatient, and others just need to select the ones they need most more wisely. If anything, it should only benefit Anet, boosting gems' sales. Not a big issue, as it's not related to gameplay or balance.

 

[AlexxxDelta.1806]

> @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

> > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said:

> > You assume that people who used SW for their gold making would suddenly "settle" for less income and happily proceed to play other maps. For every major nerf that has happened on maps like AB or Istan the counterargument to complaints from a big portion of the community was "Well, at least we still have SW."

> I'm pretty much sure of it. Ofc there will be a lot of drama, but people had been living more or less happy in-game life prior to SW even was added to the game, so.. It will calm down, and everybody (including economy) will adjust, given some time. Humans are very adaptive species, that's at the core of their success worldwide ;) Imo, Anet should have never allowed things like SW and Ishtan happen in the first place, that would save us all drama caused by its current gradual removal, when they finally realized it's not that much healthy thing.

>

> As for cosmetics, nobody ever promised players are entitled to buy all of them with gold in any foreseeable future. There is still gem-to-gold conversion option for most impatient, and others just need to select the ones they need most more wisely. If anything, it should only benefit Anet, boosting gems' sales. Not a big issue, as it's not related to gameplay or balance.

>

 

MMOrpgs are reward-driven games since WoW popularized the genre. Let's say for the sake of the argument that cosmetics aren't the carrot on a stick that keeps the gameplay wheel spinning. What is? Keep in mind this game has no gear grind so working towards more power is not in the picture. What remains to keep people repeating content? Replaying content is essential after all since no studio can produce updates at the rate it is consumed by players.

 

I get that you dislike open world zergs and that's a matter of taste but I'm sure even you can recognise it's a very popular gamestyle in GW2. Gold farms weren't introduced with SW, there was Orr before that, Frostgorge, Queensdale champs, to name a few. OW farming zergs have been as old as the game. Yes, people can adapt but we are not talking about survival here, it's just a live gaming service. If people can't find what they enjoy in it they will simply look elsewhere, the market is more competitive than ever.

[phs.6089]

> @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

> > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said:

...

> As for cosmetics, nobody ever promised players are entitled to buy all of them with gold in any foreseeable future. There is still gem-to-gold conversion option for most impatient, and others just need to select the ones they need most more wisely. If anything, it should only benefit Anet, boosting gems' sales. Not a big issue, as it's not related to gameplay or balance.

>

There are cosmetics in game that cost 3-10k gold, would be nice if Anet put them to gem store but it's not true atm

 

[Fumigene.5076]

> @"Lexi.1398" said:

> The big reward isn't that much lower than HoT (40s~ on insta sell price, i believe), though it does lack the extra chests each HoT event gets. That said, the only hard PoF meta is serpents ire, the rest are easier than even AB.

>

> Last week i committed to realm portal spiker achievement - meaning i did the maws of tormet meta 25 times~ over 2 days - of those, only 4 or 5 got through to the legendary. Why? Well, there was enough people at the event for sure, but next to no one joined squad for organisation, and no one spread out even when i did suggest it.... that meta requires about 4 people in each lane minimum, 12 people spread across 3 lanes, actually even less per lane but to duo or solo a lane requires a fair amount of skill that I don't expect from open world. For maws of torment, there is no timing kills required, no special mechanics (really, the portal spikes only take pressing f -> run to a spot and press f again -> run to another spot and press f, and the places you run to aren't exactly obscure or difficult to reach), you don't need to switch out skills like AB south and DS (swiftness), you don't need to target x and y special enemy, no enemy has particularly specific mechanics except the legendary itself, you just....clear mobs.

 

Did they actually fix the NPCs getting stuck during escort? I don't remember reading it in the patch notes and it was one of the reason I stopped trying to do that meta.

Did you manage to get peoples to switch target from the boss to the additional champions (when the zerg is big enough)? They give forged champion bags but disappear when the boss dies if they haven't received some significant amount of damage. And yet, most people would ignore them, even with target called.

Also, splitting is not mandatory. With enough fire-power, you can do a lane after the other. Which has the added benefit of spawning a few champions on the way.

 

> The balthy's wardogs meta is even easier and less time consuming, but is exceedingly annoying to predict the time it starts for. There's barely even splitting of people here, it just takes people actually....doing the event.

Agreed. A visible timer or a trigger that requires player interaction to start would be great. As it is, it starts and fails silently. I've only ever managed to see it start once (at least it was a success, getting people to join was not a problem).

I don't have the slightest clue what the loot is though.

 

> I frankly forget if this one even gives a raiders chest, though even if doesn't, IMO the only change i'd ever make is with the first event to make it quicker/require less crystals per person.

No raiders chest, but there is a chance at some rare mini. And yes, that pre-event is the reason I skip this meta. Boring.

 

 

[Katastroff.1045]

We can talk about it till the end of time, the fact is that Aneth wont do anything about it, just like that weekly reset for bug maps that many (including me) have been asking for a looooong time. Best we can do if we need those metas is to spam cities and populated maps to get enough people to successfully do them.

 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

A lot of people don't know this, but the Mini Junundu Worm from Junundu Rising sells for 9999 gold. It's that valuable. You'd think that, even with slim chances, this would have people arriving in droves to do Junundu Rising. But they don't. Why?

 

(1) The event doesn't have a timer. It happens whenever it does.

(2) There's no large telegraph to the start of the event. There's some obscure NPC in an obscure spot in the map you have to talk to in order to start the event. If you don't know to do this, you could stand around forever waiting for the event to begin.

(3) There's no large telegraph to tell you when the event is underway. Unless you happen to be in that area of the desloation, you won't see it coming.

(4) The rewards for completing the chain are dismal, unless you happen to get the Worm. This means that people will do it once, then never come back because it isn't worth their time

(5) The worm is not common knowledge, so not a lot of people go there to do it.

 

These themes repeat over and over again. Most players don't know what Serpent's Ire is, or why they should be there. Most players don't know there's a meta chain in The Foundry, or why they should be there. Most players don't know what the treasure hunt is, or why they should be there. Most people don't know about the Hall of Ascension, or why they should be there. Hell, I can't answer half these questions myself. I don't know if this is a comprehensive list, either. Because of this, nobody does these events.

 

And because nobody knows about these things and nobody does them, recruiting for these events is impossible. Nobody is checking the LFG because they don't have a reason to. Nobody is will bother joining the tag because, in their minds, these big metas are indistinguishable from random non-rewarding events. Nobody is going to dedicate the time to learning how to do these events, either. Most n00bs experience with these events is them joining a tag, the event failing from being horribly undermanned, and the n00b vowing to never do it again for their troubles.

 

What are these rewards? They're pretty bad, actually:

 

Unids: With the global loot change these got nerfed into the ground. Originally Unids of all sorts were a good source of income, but now anything less than a rare might as well be vendor trash.

Branded Sparks: with the recent loot changes, these have dropped severely in price.

Trader Keys: nearly useless. The only way to open up completely random chests is if you're wandering aimlessly through every corner of the PoF maps. Which... people don't do. Players waypoint to specific places for a specific reason, for which they have none to be here. Also you'll rarely get the keys.

Treasure Hunting Kits: These are good, except most people don't know they're good, which makes them pretty bad.

Obscure items that nobody knows of or talks about.

 

Trade Contracts. This one gets its own special mention because of how terrible they are. First, you don't get many. You can go through an entire event and get, like, 3. Second, the only way to spend them by completing a heart event, and hoping that the vendor has what you're looking to buy. This means that the currency is locked behind menial busywork that resets each day. Third, the only things you can spend this currency on to make money is Trader Keys (which, as above, are terrible), and caches that require a lot of contracts and karma, making them horribly inefficient as a manner of time investment.

 

The only reward that is good all around is when you get ascended recipe drops. That's it.

[ugrakarma.9416]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> (2) There's no large telegraph to the start of the event. There's some obscure NPC in an obscure spot in the map you have to talk to in order to start the event. If you don't know to do this, you could stand around forever waiting for the event to begin.

> (3) There's no large telegraph to tell you when the event is underway. Unless you happen to be in that area of the desloation, you won't see it coming.

 

yeah, Lack of telegraph is much bigger problem that its seems.

 

[Cristalyan.5728]

> @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

 

>

> Don't see why it won't. Assuming they would nerf SW such that it will produce the same gold/hour PoF maps do, and people stop to care about gold, and will just start to change maps just because they get bored of the scenery. Seems like it may work just fine, to me.

>

 

Sorry, but this will push the players not to change maps, but to change the game. With another one, more rewarding. If this is the real goal for ANet, then, indeed it may work fine.

[Samuel.4812]

This is so much closer to current content... How can anet ignore the fact that their most recent content goes unplayed due to lack of parity with other metas that are more rewarding and 4 years old? A simple hero's choice box with an amalgamated gemstone or funerary incense and a bunch of chests would make them totally worth doing. And it would be so easy to add.

 

And then when they want to advertise pof and people join the game they will actually see lots of players in the zones... It's just basic marketing.

 

Make your content worth it anet! I've only been playing a year and I figured out a long time ago that if I want loots for legendaries I've gotta go to sw or hot metas.

 

It shouldn't be like this. Surely they are aware?

[Katastroff.1045]

> @"Samuel.4812" said:

> This is so much closer to current content... How can anet ignore the fact that their most recent content goes unplayed due to lack of parity with other metas that are more rewarding and 4 years old? A simple hero's choice box with an amalgamated gemstone or funerary incense and a bunch of chests would make them totally worth doing. And it would be so easy to add.

>

> And then when they want to advertise pof and people join the game they will actually see lots of players in the zones... It's just basic marketing.

>

> Make your content worth it anet! I've only been playing a year and I figured out a long time ago that if I want loots for legendaries I've gotta go to sw or hot metas.

>

> It shouldn't be like this. Surely they are aware?

 

They have this big advertising campaign going for POF with the LW for free, and tonite we got Dragon Stand as a daily...

:skull:

[Perisemiotics.4579]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said:

> > > > @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> > > > The problem with PoF maps isnt' really meta rewards - it's extreme difficulty/tedium traversing them to attain those rewards.

> > > >

> > > > They need to nerf mobs and mob behavior. Period.

> > >

> > > HoT maps are harder to traverse, with deadlier mobs and yet its metas are more popular.

> >

> > Since when?

>

> October 2015

 

September 2017 actually.

[Perisemiotics.4579]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> Trader Keys: nearly useless. The only way to open up completely random chests is if you're wandering aimlessly through every corner of the PoF maps. Which... people don't do. Players waypoint to specific places for a specific reason, for which they have none to be here.

 

I guess I'm no people then because that's exactly what I do, especially in the Crystal Desert maps. This whole expansion was designed around a different theme, mood even, that players should just laze around and take their time with every nook and cranny.

I won't discuss the rewards themselves which you're probably right about but to talk about how this event or that practice of just running around harvesting and opening chests "nobody does" is a gross generalization. Anything about how to play the game is subjective; I have actually run out of Keys many times and the mat return they give is quite valuable. And no, I don't waypoint at all unless I'm in another map or the wp is pretty close to where I want to go. I enjoy traversing the maps, evading mobs and terrain with different mounts, taking the sand portals and so on.

[zealex.9410]

At this point i feel like they should throw some bandaid to the pof maps and immidiately start working on the next thing.

 

They've seen what works and what doesnt, noe they need to put that in practice.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

> @"Perisemiotics.4579" said:

> > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > Trader Keys: nearly useless. The only way to open up completely random chests is if you're wandering aimlessly through every corner of the PoF maps. Which... people don't do. Players waypoint to specific places for a specific reason, for which they have none to be here.

>

> I guess I'm no people then because that's exactly what I do, especially in the Crystal Desert maps. This whole expansion was designed around a different theme, mood even, that players should just laze around and take their time with every nook and cranny.

> I won't discuss the rewards themselves which you're probably right about but to talk about how this event or that practice of just running around harvesting and opening chests "nobody does" is a gross generalization. Anything about how to play the game is subjective; I have actually run out of Keys many times and the mat return they give is quite valuable. And no, I don't waypoint at all unless I'm in another map or the wp is pretty close to where I want to go. I enjoy traversing the maps, evading mobs and terrain with different mounts, taking the sand portals and so on.

 

If analyzed from the lens of currency investment, Trader Keys seem like they're good. Though you can't choose the caches you get, being relatively cheap compared to buying the caches directly makes them a good deal. Thea ability to loot multiple caches from a single node on the map is good, too. There's one big problem with the keys, though: You can't get them in bulk. You have to complete a heart event every 5 keys, which makes them incredibly tedious, annoying, and most importantly makes them much worse from a time investment situation. To top it off, the keys are rewarded very infrequently. You can complete several events and not see a single key drop.

 

In HoT, we don't have to deal with this. We can buy as many exalted keys and chak acid vials as we want. We can't buy pact crowbars, but that doesn't matter because several are rewarded after every event. In these maps, all of the different chests we open are clustered together and easy to access. A bunch drop after every boss in VB, there's 27 chests in AB after the meta, and getting the crystal caches is easy because they litter the lanes after their events are completed. To make PoF equivalent to HoT, we'd be able to buy keys in bulk, and every meta event would reward 5 random caches at the end.

 

Being a unique individual doesn't change this. The principles of economics (scarcity, demand, etc) are the same, no matter who you are or where you are. The Trader Keys require more time investment, are less frequently rewarded, are inconvenient to gather, and are inconvenient to use when compared to everywhere else in the game. This is why players generally avoid bothering with them.

[Rasimir.6239]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> If analyzed from the lens of currency investment, Trader Keys seem like they're good. Though you can't choose the caches you get, being relatively cheap compared to buying the caches directly makes them a good deal. Thea ability to loot multiple caches from a single node on the map is good, too. There's one big problem with the keys, though: You can't get them in bulk. You have to complete a heart event every 5 keys, which makes them incredibly tedious, annoying, and most importantly makes them much worse from a time investment situation. To top it off, the keys are rewarded very infrequently. You can complete several events and not see a single key drop.

I think a major part here (as well as in many other discussions) is the way the individual player looks at the game itself. I'm one of those that prefer to just play what looks fun rather than beeline for specific rewards. As such I have played quite a bit of PoF and season 4 maps, but rarely (if ever) participated in meta events or bounty trains, or even made those my main focus of playing. I like to open Cowrie League crates whenever I come across them since they have a chance to give t3 and t4 wood, leather, or cloth, which I am often short of. I also snoop around bleached bones, dwarven chests, simple sand piles and the like whenever I come across them. I have never had to buy trader keys from heart vendors, nor have I ever been short of trade contracts, despite getting all of the mounts and minis as well as a full set of ascended harrier's trinkets for my druid.

 

I get why people prefer to analyse the numbers and play the numbers game rather than actually just "playing" the game. I did the same thing when I was (much) younger, but eventually came to the point where I found caring about the numbers was ruining games (for me). One of the things I love about this game is that you can enjoy it without playing the numbers game all the time, analyzing what's "worth it", and still get everything you'd like. PoF maps are a great example of getting everything you want or need just by playing organically. And I see people on the maps all of the time, despite the forums claiming the maps are dead. I guess it's people like me, who prefer to just play without crunching numbers ;) .