Stallic.2397 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > Rampage is fine and easily countered. > Tempest perspective. > > Magnetic Auras / Immobilize / chill / Weakness and cripple spam combined with a tiny bit of kiting, easy done. > > I swear ya'll complain about anything... Weaver can also handle rampage. They won't face tank, but there's enough evades to laugh off the attempt to overwhelm. That's also without losing the node. Of course, no one plays these builds ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 > @"Stallic.2397" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > Rampage is fine and easily countered. > > Tempest perspective. > > > > Magnetic Auras / Immobilize / chill / Weakness and cripple spam combined with a tiny bit of kiting, easy done. > > > > I swear ya'll complain about anything... > > Weaver can also handle rampage. They won't face tank, but there's enough evades to laugh off the attempt to overwhelm. That's also without losing the node. > > Of course, no one plays these builds ??? Not when its easier to complain lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 Make it an Engineer kit. No stability. No stat buffs. Fifteen-second recharge; half-second to activate (or better yet, no CD, but make it consume 20 adrenaline as a cost: that would make it a decent investment, still allow SBs to use it, and it would prevent Berserkers from using it while in angry mode). Adjust damage down and play with individual skill CDs as necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaRaPhReNiA.8763 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"PaRaPhReNiA.8763" said: > > Be a man on the internet and quote someone directly otherwise you are just a coward - ty gw2 mamas basement Community. So happy this forum exists > > > I was trying to help someone by giving them simple solutions but they carried on complaining before resorting to childish behaviors and clearly you chose to join in. > > One of my houses actually has a basement but that's rented out at the moment, but otherwise you have no idea because people who say things like that wouldnt even know what a mortgage is. > > > I appreciate people quoting me when they directly respond to me, I dont respect the sniveling cowards way of communication that was presented, it reminds me of my daughter when she walks off and mutters kitten under her breathe just to get a laugh or like from her other childish friends.. And I see no behavioural differences here either in respect to the original conversation, my daughter and your comment. > > > > > > He didn't complain at all. He tried to defend his point. Btw again immobilize doesnt help vs rampage cuz of warriors sprint as he stated. I guess it helps vs some random warriors tho... U on the other hand attacked him while He was the one presenting arguments ( just look at your last paragraph). Dont push yourself in being the victim Here when U are clearly the one talking smack. Have fun defending yourself i really dont Care what u have irl since its the internet and i could say im a millionaire that is so bored He argues over unnecessary things in a Game forum that even the devs gave up on :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 > @"PaRaPhReNiA.8763" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"PaRaPhReNiA.8763" said: > > > Be a man on the internet and quote someone directly otherwise you are just a coward - ty gw2 mamas basement Community. So happy this forum exists > > > > > > I was trying to help someone by giving them simple solutions but they carried on complaining before resorting to childish behaviors and clearly you chose to join in. > > > > One of my houses actually has a basement but that's rented out at the moment, but otherwise you have no idea because people who say things like that wouldnt even know what a mortgage is. > > > > > > I appreciate people quoting me when they directly respond to me, I dont respect the sniveling cowards way of communication that was presented, it reminds me of my daughter when she walks off and mutters kitten under her breathe just to get a laugh or like from her other childish friends.. And I see no behavioural differences here either in respect to the original conversation, my daughter and your comment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He didn't complain at all. He tried to defend his point. Btw again immobilize doesnt help vs rampage cuz of warriors sprint as he stated. I guess it helps vs some random warriors tho... > U on the other hand attacked him while He was the one presenting arguments ( just look at your last paragraph). Dont push yourself in being the victim Here when U are clearly the one talking smack. > Have fun defending yourself i really dont Care what u have irl since its the internet and i could say im a millionaire that is so bored He argues over unnecessary things in a Game forum that even the devs gave up on :D I offered more suggestions than just Immobilize but for some reason you both ignored it. You're more than welcome to fixate and obsess over Immobilize though. I never said I was the victim and I didn't talk smack either, I spoke to him like he was an adult, just as I spoke to you. It would appear that was my mistake. The rest of your post of which I didn't respond too was barely comprehensible due to grammar and spelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snellibee.2761 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > Rampage is fine and easily countered. > > > Tempest perspective. > > > > > > Magnetic Auras / Immobilize / chill / Weakness and cripple spam combined with a tiny bit of kiting, easy done. > > > > > > I swear ya'll complain about anything... > > > > Not every class poops these conditions out mate, just because your class somehow counters it doesn't matter all classes can counter it > > I cant help with Rev or Holo but give me your build and class and Ill point out to you what works... > Its usually soft CC like blinds, cripples, slows, chills and so forth... Weakness also helps too > > Please dont say you dont have any either, its like posting condi killed you because you had no condi cleanse and asking for condi nerfs afterwards. I play Rev and I do actually know and have enough abilities paired with kiting to avoid rampage, just saying not every class has this. Also rampage makes it so you have to use a LOT of cooldowns wich is kinda shitty because when rampage is over you're very vulnerable wich kinda sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateless gate.8406 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 Cooldown is simply WAY too short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durzlla.6295 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 Well for starters elite specs are meant to have trade offs not necessarily skills, but even then Rampage has a trade off already, they can’t use their utility skills or their heals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skugga.5298 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 Lol it's the engineer that is OP ;P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateless gate.8406 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 > @"Durzlla.6295" said: > Well for starters elite specs are meant to have trade offs not necessarily skills, but even then Rampage has a trade off already, they can’t use their utility skills or their heals. Why would you want to when you have perma stability, damage reduction, and your 1-5 all stun and do 4k+ damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > Rampage is fine and easily countered. > > > > Tempest perspective. > > > > > > > > Magnetic Auras / Immobilize / chill / Weakness and cripple spam combined with a tiny bit of kiting, easy done. > > > > > > > > I swear ya'll complain about anything... > > > > > > Not every class poops these conditions out mate, just because your class somehow counters it doesn't matter all classes can counter it > > > > I cant help with Rev or Holo but give me your build and class and Ill point out to you what works... > > Its usually soft CC like blinds, cripples, slows, chills and so forth... Weakness also helps too > > > > Please dont say you dont have any either, its like posting condi killed you because you had no condi cleanse and asking for condi nerfs afterwards. > > I play Rev and I do actually know and have enough abilities paired with kiting to avoid rampage, just saying not every class has this. Also rampage makes it so you have to use a LOT of cooldowns wich is kinda kitten because when rampage is over you're very vulnerable wich kinda sucks > Im jealous that you can play Rev... Ok fair enough, off the top of my mind just about every class can handle it well except for necro but is that any different to your rev and conditions? (I only say necro because I struggle with Rampage when I play Necro) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 Take away the boulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elementalist Owner.7802 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Guys, these "nerf this spec!" "no, nerf that spec!" arguments are pointless because EVERY meta build needs to be nerfed. Why single something out just because you had an annoying experience against it in a recent game? Take a look objectively and realize everything in this meta is anti-fun: Boonspam, power creep, 100-0 spike damage with no animations, evade while attacking, etc... All of these things are out of control and abused by multiple specs. We need to stop looking at balance from a "my main class vs. everything else" perspective and start caring about the healthiness of the game mode as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snellibee.2761 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > Rampage is fine and easily countered. > > > > > Tempest perspective. > > > > > > > > > > Magnetic Auras / Immobilize / chill / Weakness and cripple spam combined with a tiny bit of kiting, easy done. > > > > > > > > > > I swear ya'll complain about anything... > > > > > > > > Not every class poops these conditions out mate, just because your class somehow counters it doesn't matter all classes can counter it > > > > > > I cant help with Rev or Holo but give me your build and class and Ill point out to you what works... > > > Its usually soft CC like blinds, cripples, slows, chills and so forth... Weakness also helps too > > > > > > Please dont say you dont have any either, its like posting condi killed you because you had no condi cleanse and asking for condi nerfs afterwards. > > > > I play Rev and I do actually know and have enough abilities paired with kiting to avoid rampage, just saying not every class has this. Also rampage makes it so you have to use a LOT of cooldowns wich is kinda kitten because when rampage is over you're very vulnerable wich kinda sucks > > > > Im jealous that you can play Rev... > Ok fair enough, off the top of my mind just about every class can handle it well except for necro but is that any different to your rev and conditions? > (I only say necro because I struggle with Rampage when I play Necro) > > > Can I just point out that we're also talking about being able to defend from rampage in a perfect world where you have all your skills available for you? In real scenarios you already used most of your cooldowns to avoid bull's charge and other ridiculously hard hitting skills warrior has to offer, leaving very little to avoid rampage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > Rampage is fine and easily countered. > > > > > > Tempest perspective. > > > > > > > > > > > > Magnetic Auras / Immobilize / chill / Weakness and cripple spam combined with a tiny bit of kiting, easy done. > > > > > > > > > > > > I swear ya'll complain about anything... > > > > > > > > > > Not every class poops these conditions out mate, just because your class somehow counters it doesn't matter all classes can counter it > > > > > > > > I cant help with Rev or Holo but give me your build and class and Ill point out to you what works... > > > > Its usually soft CC like blinds, cripples, slows, chills and so forth... Weakness also helps too > > > > > > > > Please dont say you dont have any either, its like posting condi killed you because you had no condi cleanse and asking for condi nerfs afterwards. > > > > > > I play Rev and I do actually know and have enough abilities paired with kiting to avoid rampage, just saying not every class has this. Also rampage makes it so you have to use a LOT of cooldowns wich is kinda kitten because when rampage is over you're very vulnerable wich kinda sucks > > > > > > > Im jealous that you can play Rev... > > Ok fair enough, off the top of my mind just about every class can handle it well except for necro but is that any different to your rev and conditions? > > (I only say necro because I struggle with Rampage when I play Necro) > > > > > > > > Can I just point out that we're also talking about being able to defend from rampage in a perfect world where you have all your skills available for you? In real scenarios you already used most of your cooldowns to avoid bull's charge and other ridiculously hard hitting skills warrior has to offer, leaving very little to avoid rampage I just take it as outplayed and try harder next time, most of the time that works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighter.5631 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > Rampage is fine and easily countered. > > > > > > Tempest perspective. > > > > > > > > > > > > Magnetic Auras / Immobilize / chill / Weakness and cripple spam combined with a tiny bit of kiting, easy done. > > > > > > > > > > > > I swear ya'll complain about anything... > > > > > > > > > > Not every class poops these conditions out mate, just because your class somehow counters it doesn't matter all classes can counter it > > > > > > > > I cant help with Rev or Holo but give me your build and class and Ill point out to you what works... > > > > Its usually soft CC like blinds, cripples, slows, chills and so forth... Weakness also helps too > > > > > > > > Please dont say you dont have any either, its like posting condi killed you because you had no condi cleanse and asking for condi nerfs afterwards. > > > > > > I play Rev and I do actually know and have enough abilities paired with kiting to avoid rampage, just saying not every class has this. Also rampage makes it so you have to use a LOT of cooldowns wich is kinda kitten because when rampage is over you're very vulnerable wich kinda sucks > > > > > > > Im jealous that you can play Rev... > > Ok fair enough, off the top of my mind just about every class can handle it well except for necro but is that any different to your rev and conditions? > > (I only say necro because I struggle with Rampage when I play Necro) > > > > > > > > Can I just point out that we're also talking about being able to defend from rampage in a perfect world where you have all your skills available for you? In real scenarios you already used most of your cooldowns to avoid bull's charge and other ridiculously hard hitting skills warrior has to offer, leaving very little to avoid rampage ? "hey guys, enemy popped a long cd elite skill and i have no CD availiable to me, yet i should come out unharmed" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curennos.9307 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 > @"Lighter.5631" said: > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > Rampage is fine and easily countered. > > > > > > > Tempest perspective. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Magnetic Auras / Immobilize / chill / Weakness and cripple spam combined with a tiny bit of kiting, easy done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I swear ya'll complain about anything... > > > > > > > > > > > > Not every class poops these conditions out mate, just because your class somehow counters it doesn't matter all classes can counter it > > > > > > > > > > I cant help with Rev or Holo but give me your build and class and Ill point out to you what works... > > > > > Its usually soft CC like blinds, cripples, slows, chills and so forth... Weakness also helps too > > > > > > > > > > Please dont say you dont have any either, its like posting condi killed you because you had no condi cleanse and asking for condi nerfs afterwards. > > > > > > > > I play Rev and I do actually know and have enough abilities paired with kiting to avoid rampage, just saying not every class has this. Also rampage makes it so you have to use a LOT of cooldowns wich is kinda kitten because when rampage is over you're very vulnerable wich kinda sucks > > > > > > > > > > Im jealous that you can play Rev... > > > Ok fair enough, off the top of my mind just about every class can handle it well except for necro but is that any different to your rev and conditions? > > > (I only say necro because I struggle with Rampage when I play Necro) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can I just point out that we're also talking about being able to defend from rampage in a perfect world where you have all your skills available for you? In real scenarios you already used most of your cooldowns to avoid bull's charge and other ridiculously hard hitting skills warrior has to offer, leaving very little to avoid rampage > > ? "hey guys, enemy popped a long cd elite skill and i have no CD availiable to me, yet i should come out unharmed" Rampage is veeeery far from a 'long cd', relatively speaking. It isn't that it's impossible to survive rampage - it's the amount of resources a player has to dedicate to mitigate a single elite skill and the frequency at which the skill can be used. It doesn't matter how many skills the elite has that are must-dodge (minimum two of them - #4 and #5. Arguably 3 I guess. Anyway). It isn't even how telegraphed some of the skills are - it's that you MUST mitigate them and MUST dedicate not-insignificant resources to doing so. 'lol just dodge' means jack - the POINT is to deprive your opponent of defensive cooldowns to the point where they can be killed. Rampage does that too well too often - it's investment/reward is way out of whack. Other classes have wet dreams about having an elite skill that forces the opponent to dedicate that many defensive resources to dealing with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falan.1839 Posted April 25, 2019 Author Share Posted April 25, 2019 > @"Curennos.9307" said: > > @"Lighter.5631" said: > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > Rampage is fine and easily countered. > > > > > > > > Tempest perspective. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Magnetic Auras / Immobilize / chill / Weakness and cripple spam combined with a tiny bit of kiting, easy done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I swear ya'll complain about anything... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not every class poops these conditions out mate, just because your class somehow counters it doesn't matter all classes can counter it > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant help with Rev or Holo but give me your build and class and Ill point out to you what works... > > > > > > Its usually soft CC like blinds, cripples, slows, chills and so forth... Weakness also helps too > > > > > > > > > > > > Please dont say you dont have any either, its like posting condi killed you because you had no condi cleanse and asking for condi nerfs afterwards. > > > > > > > > > > I play Rev and I do actually know and have enough abilities paired with kiting to avoid rampage, just saying not every class has this. Also rampage makes it so you have to use a LOT of cooldowns wich is kinda kitten because when rampage is over you're very vulnerable wich kinda sucks > > > > > > > > > > > > > Im jealous that you can play Rev... > > > > Ok fair enough, off the top of my mind just about every class can handle it well except for necro but is that any different to your rev and conditions? > > > > (I only say necro because I struggle with Rampage when I play Necro) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can I just point out that we're also talking about being able to defend from rampage in a perfect world where you have all your skills available for you? In real scenarios you already used most of your cooldowns to avoid bull's charge and other ridiculously hard hitting skills warrior has to offer, leaving very little to avoid rampage > > > > ? "hey guys, enemy popped a long cd elite skill and i have no CD availiable to me, yet i should come out unharmed" > > Rampage is veeeery far from a 'long cd', relatively speaking. It isn't that it's impossible to survive rampage - it's the amount of resources a player has to dedicate to mitigate a single elite skill and the frequency at which the skill can be used. It doesn't matter how many skills the elite has that are must-dodge (minimum two of them - #4 and #5. Arguably 3 I guess. Anyway). > > It isn't even how telegraphed some of the skills are - it's that you MUST mitigate them and MUST dedicate not-insignificant resources to doing so. 'lol just dodge' means jack - the POINT is to deprive your opponent of defensive cooldowns to the point where they can be killed. Rampage does that too well too often - it's investment/reward is way out of whack. Other classes have wet dreams about having an elite skill that forces the opponent to dedicate that many defensive resources to dealing with it. > > Wow, actually a sane answer from a person that understands the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snellibee.2761 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 > @"Curennos.9307" said: > > @"Lighter.5631" said: > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > Rampage is fine and easily countered. > > > > > > > > Tempest perspective. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Magnetic Auras / Immobilize / chill / Weakness and cripple spam combined with a tiny bit of kiting, easy done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I swear ya'll complain about anything... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not every class poops these conditions out mate, just because your class somehow counters it doesn't matter all classes can counter it > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant help with Rev or Holo but give me your build and class and Ill point out to you what works... > > > > > > Its usually soft CC like blinds, cripples, slows, chills and so forth... Weakness also helps too > > > > > > > > > > > > Please dont say you dont have any either, its like posting condi killed you because you had no condi cleanse and asking for condi nerfs afterwards. > > > > > > > > > > I play Rev and I do actually know and have enough abilities paired with kiting to avoid rampage, just saying not every class has this. Also rampage makes it so you have to use a LOT of cooldowns wich is kinda kitten because when rampage is over you're very vulnerable wich kinda sucks > > > > > > > > > > > > > Im jealous that you can play Rev... > > > > Ok fair enough, off the top of my mind just about every class can handle it well except for necro but is that any different to your rev and conditions? > > > > (I only say necro because I struggle with Rampage when I play Necro) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can I just point out that we're also talking about being able to defend from rampage in a perfect world where you have all your skills available for you? In real scenarios you already used most of your cooldowns to avoid bull's charge and other ridiculously hard hitting skills warrior has to offer, leaving very little to avoid rampage > > > > ? "hey guys, enemy popped a long cd elite skill and i have no CD availiable to me, yet i should come out unharmed" > > Rampage is veeeery far from a 'long cd', relatively speaking. It isn't that it's impossible to survive rampage - it's the amount of resources a player has to dedicate to mitigate a single elite skill and the frequency at which the skill can be used. It doesn't matter how many skills the elite has that are must-dodge (minimum two of them - #4 and #5. Arguably 3 I guess. Anyway). > > It isn't even how telegraphed some of the skills are - it's that you MUST mitigate them and MUST dedicate not-insignificant resources to doing so. 'lol just dodge' means jack - the POINT is to deprive your opponent of defensive cooldowns to the point where they can be killed. Rampage does that too well too often - it's investment/reward is way out of whack. Other classes have wet dreams about having an elite skill that forces the opponent to dedicate that many defensive resources to dealing with it. > > Exactly couldn't have said it better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighter.5631 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 > @"Curennos.9307" said: > > @"Lighter.5631" said: > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > Rampage is fine and easily countered. > > > > > > > > Tempest perspective. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Magnetic Auras / Immobilize / chill / Weakness and cripple spam combined with a tiny bit of kiting, easy done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I swear ya'll complain about anything... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not every class poops these conditions out mate, just because your class somehow counters it doesn't matter all classes can counter it > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant help with Rev or Holo but give me your build and class and Ill point out to you what works... > > > > > > Its usually soft CC like blinds, cripples, slows, chills and so forth... Weakness also helps too > > > > > > > > > > > > Please dont say you dont have any either, its like posting condi killed you because you had no condi cleanse and asking for condi nerfs afterwards. > > > > > > > > > > I play Rev and I do actually know and have enough abilities paired with kiting to avoid rampage, just saying not every class has this. Also rampage makes it so you have to use a LOT of cooldowns wich is kinda kitten because when rampage is over you're very vulnerable wich kinda sucks > > > > > > > > > > > > > Im jealous that you can play Rev... > > > > Ok fair enough, off the top of my mind just about every class can handle it well except for necro but is that any different to your rev and conditions? > > > > (I only say necro because I struggle with Rampage when I play Necro) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can I just point out that we're also talking about being able to defend from rampage in a perfect world where you have all your skills available for you? In real scenarios you already used most of your cooldowns to avoid bull's charge and other ridiculously hard hitting skills warrior has to offer, leaving very little to avoid rampage > > > > ? "hey guys, enemy popped a long cd elite skill and i have no CD availiable to me, yet i should come out unharmed" > > Rampage is veeeery far from a 'long cd', relatively speaking. It isn't that it's impossible to survive rampage - it's the amount of resources a player has to dedicate to mitigate a single elite skill and the frequency at which the skill can be used. It doesn't matter how many skills the elite has that are must-dodge (minimum two of them - #4 and #5. Arguably 3 I guess. Anyway). > > It isn't even how telegraphed some of the skills are - it's that you MUST mitigate them and MUST dedicate not-insignificant resources to doing so. 'lol just dodge' means jack - the POINT is to deprive your opponent of defensive cooldowns to the point where they can be killed. Rampage does that too well too often - it's investment/reward is way out of whack. Other classes have wet dreams about having an elite skill that forces the opponent to dedicate that many defensive resources to dealing with it. > > which elite skill is "actually" long CD now a days i would prefer a 200 sec CD rampage tbh, seeing how annoying rampage are now a days, but i would also expect to have a team wipe the moment i press it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 > @"Curennos.9307" said: > > @"Lighter.5631" said: > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > Rampage is fine and easily countered. > > > > > > > > Tempest perspective. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Magnetic Auras / Immobilize / chill / Weakness and cripple spam combined with a tiny bit of kiting, easy done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I swear ya'll complain about anything... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not every class poops these conditions out mate, just because your class somehow counters it doesn't matter all classes can counter it > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant help with Rev or Holo but give me your build and class and Ill point out to you what works... > > > > > > Its usually soft CC like blinds, cripples, slows, chills and so forth... Weakness also helps too > > > > > > > > > > > > Please dont say you dont have any either, its like posting condi killed you because you had no condi cleanse and asking for condi nerfs afterwards. > > > > > > > > > > I play Rev and I do actually know and have enough abilities paired with kiting to avoid rampage, just saying not every class has this. Also rampage makes it so you have to use a LOT of cooldowns wich is kinda kitten because when rampage is over you're very vulnerable wich kinda sucks > > > > > > > > > > > > > Im jealous that you can play Rev... > > > > Ok fair enough, off the top of my mind just about every class can handle it well except for necro but is that any different to your rev and conditions? > > > > (I only say necro because I struggle with Rampage when I play Necro) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can I just point out that we're also talking about being able to defend from rampage in a perfect world where you have all your skills available for you? In real scenarios you already used most of your cooldowns to avoid bull's charge and other ridiculously hard hitting skills warrior has to offer, leaving very little to avoid rampage > > > > ? "hey guys, enemy popped a long cd elite skill and i have no CD availiable to me, yet i should come out unharmed" > > Rampage is veeeery far from a 'long cd', relatively speaking. It isn't that it's impossible to survive rampage - it's the amount of resources a player has to dedicate to mitigate a single elite skill and the frequency at which the skill can be used. It doesn't matter how many skills the elite has that are must-dodge (minimum two of them - #4 and #5. Arguably 3 I guess. Anyway). > > It isn't even how telegraphed some of the skills are - it's that you MUST mitigate them and MUST dedicate not-insignificant resources to doing so. 'lol just dodge' means jack - the POINT is to deprive your opponent of defensive cooldowns to the point where they can be killed. Rampage does that too well too often - it's investment/reward is way out of whack. Other classes have wet dreams about having an elite skill that forces the opponent to dedicate that many defensive resources to dealing with it. > > Pretty much this. Basically every warrior runs rampage because it's so potent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snellibee.2761 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 > @"Lighter.5631" said: > > @"Curennos.9307" said: > > > @"Lighter.5631" said: > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > > Rampage is fine and easily countered. > > > > > > > > > Tempest perspective. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Magnetic Auras / Immobilize / chill / Weakness and cripple spam combined with a tiny bit of kiting, easy done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I swear ya'll complain about anything... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not every class poops these conditions out mate, just because your class somehow counters it doesn't matter all classes can counter it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant help with Rev or Holo but give me your build and class and Ill point out to you what works... > > > > > > > Its usually soft CC like blinds, cripples, slows, chills and so forth... Weakness also helps too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please dont say you dont have any either, its like posting condi killed you because you had no condi cleanse and asking for condi nerfs afterwards. > > > > > > > > > > > > I play Rev and I do actually know and have enough abilities paired with kiting to avoid rampage, just saying not every class has this. Also rampage makes it so you have to use a LOT of cooldowns wich is kinda kitten because when rampage is over you're very vulnerable wich kinda sucks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Im jealous that you can play Rev... > > > > > Ok fair enough, off the top of my mind just about every class can handle it well except for necro but is that any different to your rev and conditions? > > > > > (I only say necro because I struggle with Rampage when I play Necro) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can I just point out that we're also talking about being able to defend from rampage in a perfect world where you have all your skills available for you? In real scenarios you already used most of your cooldowns to avoid bull's charge and other ridiculously hard hitting skills warrior has to offer, leaving very little to avoid rampage > > > > > > ? "hey guys, enemy popped a long cd elite skill and i have no CD availiable to me, yet i should come out unharmed" > > > > Rampage is veeeery far from a 'long cd', relatively speaking. It isn't that it's impossible to survive rampage - it's the amount of resources a player has to dedicate to mitigate a single elite skill and the frequency at which the skill can be used. It doesn't matter how many skills the elite has that are must-dodge (minimum two of them - #4 and #5. Arguably 3 I guess. Anyway). > > > > It isn't even how telegraphed some of the skills are - it's that you MUST mitigate them and MUST dedicate not-insignificant resources to doing so. 'lol just dodge' means jack - the POINT is to deprive your opponent of defensive cooldowns to the point where they can be killed. Rampage does that too well too often - it's investment/reward is way out of whack. Other classes have wet dreams about having an elite skill that forces the opponent to dedicate that many defensive resources to dealing with it. > > > > > > which elite skill is "actually" long CD now a days > > i would prefer a 200 sec CD rampage tbh, seeing how annoying rampage are now a days, but i would also expect to have a team wipe the moment i press it One skill shouldn't result in killing an opponent or even a whole team, that broken as fuck. Doesn't matter how long the CD is, if there is a skill that can do that it's not balanced at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curennos.9307 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Me doing a long winded, wandering comparison. >! Let's have a looksie. >! >! Warr's must-mitigate skills on weapons: >! **Bull's Charge**: 1.2k-1.7k tooltip damage (0 might 0 insight to 25 might 5 insight), stun, evade, 3 sec knockdown. You mitigate this somehow or take that damage + an Arcing Slice/Hundred Blades. >! >! **Shield Bash**: Fortunately much easier to avoid, though it still does weak-AA levels of damage if it lands and stuns for 2 sec. Avoid or get chunked by AS/Hundred. >! >! **Breaching Strike**: For those lovely people out there who run dagger - unblockable (so that's out!), Boonrip. Grants Insight + if Defense a stack of Adrenal Health. 1k-1.5k tooltip. If sword, you've got Final Thrust. >! >! **Whirlwind Attack**: Can be hit or miss, but generally you want to avoid getting chunked by this. As its multi-hit, it can help in mightstacking (and thus contribute to the warr's sustain and damage. Best to avoid it). >! >! **Full Counter**: Godawful damage tooltip, but absorbs an attack, short stab, small evasion, daze (which boonstrips), unblockable (so you have to dodge, blind or w/e), and procs Magebane Tether. Avoid at all costs, otherwise the warr's damage will skyrocket. Powerful offensive and defensive skill, if only because your opponent is forced to deal with it and has to slow down their attacks in an attempt to avoid proccing it. >! >! Honorable mentions: **Rush**: 1.6-2.3k tooltip damage. A gap closer with an izerker attached, really, but slow and can be a little clunky/vulnerable. In game it's 1800-something, but I can't be arsed to look at the tooltip of every single skill after stacking stuff, so w/e. >! >! **Hundred Blades**: Won't do anything if used alone, but a hard hitting follow up. >! >! **Arcing Slice**: Follow up to p much any CC you'll ever have heading your way. 'Only' ~1360 tooltip with zero might/insight and 2k execute, but goes all the way to 1.9k and 2.8k execute with might/insight. However, it suffers from a 150 range, so isn't too troublesome unless you eat a CC. >! >! **Reckless Dodge**: Not too much of an issue on the brawlier classes that have access to prot/more toughness, but a warr's dodge can have a 980-1370 tooltip. I've been hit for 4k by this on my deadeye. Gives might per opponent hit (so, heal + endurance + damage. Relatively minor, but nothing to sneeze at). >! >! >! >! **I have no issue with any of the options warrior has listed up until this point.** I find the class relatively balanced and fun to play with some of the more interesting counterplay as a result of Full Counter's existence. It's a sweet, sweet thing to suddenly land a solid read and maange to proc FC - equally sweet when fighting a warr and I manage to kill them while avoiding their procs. >! >! Now we get to Rampage. >! >! 72 second cooldown, 90 untraited...But what warrior doesn't take Strength these days. It's up every 1-2 fights. >! >! **Seismic Leap**: 1460-2k tooltip. 2 sec knockdown, blast finisher (not really relevant but I find it funny xD). A must-mitigate. >! >! **Throw Boulder**: 1800-2600 tooltip (holy shit?). Stuns. Mitigate or die horribly. Suffers a little due to being a projectile, and I've heard the boulder sometimes just disappears, though I've never had that happen to me. >! >! **Dash**: 2200-3.1k tooltip. Lol it's like Rush but much scarier . Also a 4sec-ish cooldown, so you're not likely to get away. While it has no additional effects (so you cooould let it hit if you've got HP to spare), it's probably best to avoid this somehow too. >! >! Oh yeah, and they all proc Peak Performance for 10% more damage. Honorable mention for the absolute powerhouse of an (Admittedly slow) AA chain with damage tooltips I wish most of my skills had + 1.8k and daze on the last one (which is, admittedly, also 1 sec cast). Kick also isn't something to ignore, but it's unlikely you're going to be able to mitigate it on reaction - 1.1k-1.5k and a boonrip because CC. >! >! Another three skills that you're forced to deal with, somehow. It's not too lacking in feasibility, though, that the warr jumped in normally instead of rampaging right at the start so try and get a FC proc before transforming, use up some weapon skills, etc. Don't forget they can use their Signet heal before transforming (weapon swap into quickness makes this harder to interrupt). I won't go into counter and counter-to-counter because that's a spiral of dumb. >! >! And then it gets a chunk more of health, reduced incoming damage, reduced chill/cripple/immob incoming duration, and pulsing stability (and Swiftness IIRC?). It's diabeetus levels of icing on the cake. You... >! >! 1) Probably aren't gonna be able to kite it very well due to reduced incoming movement impairing effects >! 2) Can't really CC due to pulsing stability. >! 3) Can't out-pressure it because of the reduced incoming damage and massive damage tooltips. You will lose going toe-to-toe. >! 4) Maybe you can load it up with conditions if they haven't used Signet before the transform, or rip the resistance somehow? Maybe, maybe not. See 'spiral of dumb'. >! >! Let's look at another Elite. I've been goofing around with Reaper lately, so let's take a look at the elite shout, Chilled to the Bone. >! 1) 2 stacks of stab, ever. >! 2) 1.1k tooltip damage. >! 3) 5sec chill >! 4) 2 sec stun. >! >! All of which are mitigated with **one dodge, block, blind, interrupt (this is the spiral of dumb though), whatever**. Generally, the average worth of an Elite skill is a dodge or two. Or shall we say a 'mistake you don't want to make'. Chilled to the Bone is one Mistake You Do Not Want to Make >! >! Prime Light Beam? One dodge (but no block). Scourge's Ghastly Breach? Area denial - one dodge to get out of. Maybe two if you need to stay in there or something. Not really an offensive skill so much as just area control, but...anyway. I digress. Thief's Dagger Storm? **More than one dodge's worth** (or maybe a block + you take some damage, but there are near-zero counters), but guess what - this is another skill that has seen a ton of complaining, especially in combination with Improv resets. Revenent elties (Shiro/Glint) - one dodge. Or blind, or....and so on, and so forth. I don't really want to go into defensive elites, but I wonder if there are any defensive elites that give pulsing stab, 25% damage reduction, and reduced incoming movement impairment duration plus a ton of extra health...*shrug*. My suggestions for rampage >! If the skills are going to stay at their current level of strength, the cooldown needs to increase by...well, way more than would be acceptable. Increase CD so the reduced-CD version is 90 seconds. Make each skill not a physical damage skill (-10% damage, loses cooldown reduction). Boulder is a daze instead of a stun. Slash damage of the skills by another 10%. Take a step back and see what happens while giving a look at other elites that haven't seen seeing much use and see what can be done to nudge 'em gently upwards, just a little. Oh, and butcher Bull Charge's damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighter.5631 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > @"Lighter.5631" said: > > > @"Curennos.9307" said: > > > > @"Lighter.5631" said: > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > > > Rampage is fine and easily countered. > > > > > > > > > > Tempest perspective. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Magnetic Auras / Immobilize / chill / Weakness and cripple spam combined with a tiny bit of kiting, easy done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I swear ya'll complain about anything... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not every class poops these conditions out mate, just because your class somehow counters it doesn't matter all classes can counter it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant help with Rev or Holo but give me your build and class and Ill point out to you what works... > > > > > > > > Its usually soft CC like blinds, cripples, slows, chills and so forth... Weakness also helps too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please dont say you dont have any either, its like posting condi killed you because you had no condi cleanse and asking for condi nerfs afterwards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I play Rev and I do actually know and have enough abilities paired with kiting to avoid rampage, just saying not every class has this. Also rampage makes it so you have to use a LOT of cooldowns wich is kinda kitten because when rampage is over you're very vulnerable wich kinda sucks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Im jealous that you can play Rev... > > > > > > Ok fair enough, off the top of my mind just about every class can handle it well except for necro but is that any different to your rev and conditions? > > > > > > (I only say necro because I struggle with Rampage when I play Necro) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can I just point out that we're also talking about being able to defend from rampage in a perfect world where you have all your skills available for you? In real scenarios you already used most of your cooldowns to avoid bull's charge and other ridiculously hard hitting skills warrior has to offer, leaving very little to avoid rampage > > > > > > > > ? "hey guys, enemy popped a long cd elite skill and i have no CD availiable to me, yet i should come out unharmed" > > > > > > Rampage is veeeery far from a 'long cd', relatively speaking. It isn't that it's impossible to survive rampage - it's the amount of resources a player has to dedicate to mitigate a single elite skill and the frequency at which the skill can be used. It doesn't matter how many skills the elite has that are must-dodge (minimum two of them - #4 and #5. Arguably 3 I guess. Anyway). > > > > > > It isn't even how telegraphed some of the skills are - it's that you MUST mitigate them and MUST dedicate not-insignificant resources to doing so. 'lol just dodge' means jack - the POINT is to deprive your opponent of defensive cooldowns to the point where they can be killed. Rampage does that too well too often - it's investment/reward is way out of whack. Other classes have wet dreams about having an elite skill that forces the opponent to dedicate that many defensive resources to dealing with it. > > > > > > > > > > which elite skill is "actually" long CD now a days > > > > i would prefer a 200 sec CD rampage tbh, seeing how annoying rampage are now a days, but i would also expect to have a team wipe the moment i press it > > One skill shouldn't result in killing an opponent ?...that's like literally every skill? every skill used leads to your opponent's death.. i mean like isnt the topic about you dieing with no CD..then that's not a single skill causing your death since the war gotta be doing something to burn all your CDs...if you are dieing to rampage with all your CD available its your fault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 removing its pulsing stab would be a really bad idea. maybe change it so it only pulses 1 stack but that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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