Zexanima.7851 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 More boons, more condi, more AoE, more damage, more visual clutter, more lag. More more more. It seems to me if WvW keeps heading the way it has been it'll soon be nigh impossible to intelligently read and react to what's going on in fights. I thought GW2 was more about doing things horizontally with diversity and variety. Why then is everything in WvW growing vertically? The mount was a good example of horizontal expansion but things like the mount stomp added to the verticality. _Some_ verticality isn't bad but it seems like Anet has just kind of opened the flood gate and let lose. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they decided to raise the level cap next expansion and introduce "mythic" gear. I know, I know, they said they would never do those things but isn't that what the new professions have been essentially? Things like FB and Scourge are not just different than core guard and necromancer, they're wayyyy better. Not marginally better but severally better. I know this isn't news to anyone but I just want players (and anet) to think about what the game would look like if it continued changing the way it has. How long before they have to change how damage numbers are displayed because they are too big to read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coro.3176 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 > @"Zexanima.7851" said: > More boons, more condi, **Boons**: This is a direct result of support being too good. Supports are keeping perma-might, perma-stab, perma-protection on their groups. The only way to really punch through this is frequent aoe corrupt, so you get .. **Condi**: But note that this isn't really "*condi damage*. The builds that are applying it are all power scourge. It's just a result of the corrupt. Playing actual condi would be suicide due to the high # of support scrappers around converting condi to boons every second. So then you run your own support scrappers to conver this condi to.. **Boons!**: Now you have more boons. Now the enemy needs to respond with more corrupts! .. and so the cycle continues. > more AoE, more damage, more visual clutter, more lag. This is a result of projectiles and single target damage being ineffective. A single reflect or projectile blocking bubble can counter projectiles from an entire zerg. That is 1 player countering 50+ with a single skill. With a good rotation, 4-5 players with bubbles can counter ALL incoming projectiles indefinitely. Thus, projectiles are bad (or even completely useless vs a very coordinated enemy). Single target damage is also ineffective because other classes do similar amounts of burst, but deal it in an aoe. This aoe - especially ranged aoe is always preferred because it can't be mitigated as easily. > things like FB and Scourge are not just different than core guard and necromancer, they're wayyyy better. Not marginally better but severally better. Elite spec power creep has been a problem for years and years and years and they are only just now starting to address it. There is still a long way to go before core specs can compete on the same level as elite specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zexanima.7851 Posted June 10, 2019 Author Share Posted June 10, 2019 > @"coro.3176" said: > > @"Zexanima.7851" said: > > More boons, more condi, > > **Boons**: This is a direct result of support being too good. Supports are keeping perma-might, perma-stab, perma-protection on their groups. The only way to really punch through this is frequent aoe corrupt, so you get .. > **Condi**: But note that this isn't really "*condi damage*. The builds that are applying it are all power scourge. It's just a result of the corrupt. Playing actual condi would be suicide due to the high # of support scrappers around converting condi to boons every second. So then you run your own support scrappers to conver this condi to.. > **Boons!**: Now you have more boons. Now the enemy needs to respond with more corrupts! .. and so the cycle continues. > You can never really be sure either what boons/condi you have or when they are going to get instantly corrupted/converted. There are really not a lot of tells to having a sand shade pop up under your feet or the guy next to you gets hit by devouring darkness. Don't get me wrong, there currently are ways to counter play this stuff but with the way things are going skills and effects are just going to increase in number and become more instant until there really is no counter play. It'll eventually just be two zergs diving each other dropping all their skills and whoever has more players/better luck will come out on top. It already is like that a good amount of the time > > more AoE, more damage, more visual clutter, more lag. > > This is a result of projectiles and single target damage being ineffective. A single reflect or projectile blocking bubble can counter projectiles from an entire zerg. That is 1 player countering 50+ with a single skill. With a good rotation, 4-5 players with bubbles can counter ALL incoming projectiles indefinitely. Thus, projectiles are bad (or even completely useless vs a very coordinated enemy). Single target damage is also ineffective because other classes do similar amounts of burst, but deal it in an aoe. This aoe - especially ranged aoe is always preferred because it can't be mitigated as easily. > Would it be better for all AoE ranged skills to be fast moving projectiles that create an AoE upon landing? Then put a block cap on all projectile blocks/reflects? That way there is counter play to AoE bombs aside from "bait and avoid the pile of red" > > > things like FB and Scourge are not just different than core guard and necromancer, they're wayyyy better. Not marginally better but severally better. > > Elite spec power creep has been a problem for years and years and years and they are only just now starting to address it. There is still a long way to go before core specs can compete on the same level as elite specs. > We really wont know if they are addressing it or not until they release the next elite specs. For all we know the "trade offs" could just be a way to make room and promote the next elite specs which will contain the same power creep problems. It would really be nice if Anet would keep the players up to date on their vision of the game. Something clear and concise with reasoning for their decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunkamania.7561 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 They need to nerf everything into the ground and they're too scared to do it so this gamemode is gonna be more powercreep and everything buffed like crazy. The gamemode is dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displayname.8315 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Never played wow but the PvP looks cool. Guys think classic will be worth a subscription in August? Warmode or whatever looks cool and assume some guilds are basically fights guilds or hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDchiaScrub.3241 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 > @"Zexanima.7851" said: > _Some_ verticality isn't bad but it seems like Anet has just kind of opened the flood gate and let lose. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they decided to raise the level cap next expansion and introduce "mythic" gear. I know, I know, they said they would never do those things but isn't that what the new professions have been essentially? T Here is the thing. They actually have _raised the level cap_ via "mastery rank" in WvW. They added the mount, by adding gliding, fricken merchant access, and most of the combat-based masteries. They raise the cap every iteration that includes using this short sighted system. This is g'awful for attracting new players since you need about 90-120 ranks on the mount (the last two aren't "necessary") another 60 or so in gliding (all of them are actually needed to stay competitive, albeit the second rank is crap). It's really backwards as it tells the new players, "Don't bother using siege since you don't have mastery and the 'vets' will want to take over." I don't care that there is a rank to grind up, but **grinding mastery rank points (that offer an actual combat advantage) in a Pvp-ish mode seems like a bad idea to me**. D: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 > @"displayname.8315" said: > Never played wow but the PvP looks cool. Guys think classic will be worth a subscription in August? Warmode or whatever looks cool and assume some guilds are basically fights guilds or hope so. You'll find WoW's combat to be a regression after gw2. No Dodge, much less value for teamwork other than healer+dps and as pure open world, better take a month off work to level cuz the twinks they are a'comin fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkeyspit.3965 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 > @"displayname.8315" said: > Never played wow but the PvP looks cool. Guys think classic will be worth a subscription in August? Warmode or whatever looks cool and assume some guilds are basically fights guilds or hope so. Yeah, Vanilla WoW PvP was so great that Blizzard radically changed it patch after patch, year over year....... Rose Tinted Glasses + Ignorance + Grass is Always Greener = a lot of players with disappointment in their future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Pve will continue but pvp will be a ghost town. Shame really cuz anet had a winning formula with combat mechs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iKeostuKen.2738 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 How will things turn out? The mode just being a waste of time. Itl turn into a PvEr's offtime activity. Vanilla WoW PvP will probably be what you aim for if you want actual good PvP. Their battlegrounds were an amazing PvP experience...unless there were level x9 twinks in your matches lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said: > The mode just being a waste of time. So only people that want to waste their time with what they enjoy then? Yeah it sounds horrific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunkamania.7561 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 vanilla gw2 wouldn't be too bad for wvw tbh. prob would eliminate some of the power creep but not all of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loosmaster.8263 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 > @"hunkamania.7561" said: > vanilla gw2 wouldn't be too bad for wvw tbh. prob would eliminate some of the power creep but not all of it. That would be a good use for EotM. Core only allowed, nothing relative to the expansions allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunkamania.7561 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 > @"Loosmaster.8263" said: > > @"hunkamania.7561" said: > > vanilla gw2 wouldn't be too bad for wvw tbh. prob would eliminate some of the power creep but not all of it. > > That would be a good use for EotM. Core only allowed, nothing relative to the expansions allowed. Yup, seems like a no brainer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iKeostuKen.2738 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said: > > The mode just being a waste of time. > So only people that want to waste their time with what they enjoy then? Yeah it sounds horrific. > Waste of time as in, all the effort they are putting into it is going to leave it a even more barren mode then it is already becoming. Just like SPvP and Hotjoins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 maybe with the next expac, they can figure out how to limit lag to aoe bomb radius. that way if you draw the short stick, you can say you took one for the team and people will actually be thankful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Anastasia.7103 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 lmao you guys know if they ever "nerf" the power creep it's basically them telling you that they're ready to release the next expansion with the next set of powercreep-fueled elite specs because guess what sells expansions? All the juicy new elite specs... nobody wants to get left behind amirite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displayname.8315 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said: > How will things turn out? The mode just being a waste of time. Itl turn into a PvEr's offtime activity. > > Vanilla WoW PvP will probably be what you aim for if you want actual good PvP. Their battlegrounds were an amazing PvP experience...unless there were level x9 twinks in your matches lol. Yeah the battlegrounds thing sounds interesting and there's bound to be more people playing than the ghost towns anet has created with their content. Enjoyed alot of EQ2 which was very similar pve wise. Hope the teamwork and GvG style gameplay is prominent like it was in pre-HoT WvW. Haven't seen much streaming of battlegrounds but I guess it's early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 (the floodgate will remain open until Guild Wars reclaim its name and honor) ![](https://i.imgur.com/hVXLWxU.jpg "") Head to Guild Wars where the players matters and healthy competitiveness with learning skill-play are embraced (join us) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 > @"Loosmaster.8263" said: > > @"hunkamania.7561" said: > > vanilla gw2 wouldn't be too bad for wvw tbh. prob would eliminate some of the power creep but not all of it. > > That would be a good use for EotM. Core only allowed, nothing relative to the expansions allowed. But muh revenant??? Thats one of the reasons they said they wont make a vanilla event... Because rev player would feel left out. > @"displayname.8315" said: > Never played wow but the PvP looks cool. Guys think classic will be worth a subscription in August? Warmode or whatever looks cool and assume some guilds are basically fights guilds or hope so. Tbh wow fights look so incredibly boring, especially pvp looks clunky af. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 the one thing wvw could learn from wow is queues to play against a 50v50v50 or more. makes me wonder why the exact number isn't revealed. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warkind.6745 Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 My concern lies more with the fact that Arenanet doesn't seem to be able to introduce content that is an objective improvement to all play styles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 > @"Warkind.6745" said: > My concern lies more with the fact that Arenanet doesn't seem to be able to introduce content that is an objective improvement to all play styles. they probably dont need to. i mean who is the player base? are we the 1%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displayname.8315 Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"displayname.8315" said: > > Never played wow but the PvP looks cool. Guys think classic will be worth a subscription in August? Warmode or whatever looks cool and assume some guilds are basically fights guilds or hope so. > > Tbh wow fights look so incredibly boring, especially pvp looks clunky af. It doesn't have the 100% swiftness and boon uptime sure. The pacing allows for more cerebral play tho and less faceroll button mashing, perma dodging, perma invuns.. that's nice. Build choices seem to matter more instead of picking the most broken class between "balance" patches. Vanilla WvW was probably better tho.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocturnal Lunacy.8563 Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 > @"Zexanima.7851" said: > More boons, more condi, more AoE, more damage, more visual clutter, more lag. More more more. It seems to me if WvW keeps heading the way it has been it'll soon be nigh impossible to intelligently read and react to what's going on in fights. I thought GW2 was more about doing things horizontally with diversity and variety. Why then is everything in WvW growing vertically? The mount was a good example of horizontal expansion but things like the mount stomp added to the verticality. > > _Some_ verticality isn't bad but it seems like Anet has just kind of opened the flood gate and let lose. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they decided to raise the level cap next expansion and introduce "mythic" gear. I know, I know, they said they would never do those things but isn't that what the new professions have been essentially? Things like FB and Scourge are not just different than core guard and necromancer, they're wayyyy better. Not marginally better but severally better. > > I know this isn't news to anyone but I just want players (and anet) to think about what the game would look like if it continued changing the way it has. How long before they have to change how damage numbers are displayed because they are too big to read? Whats going to happen is what's already happening. Death. just a matter of time. CU gets released or a game that takes players and thatll be the end of it. anet needs to do something fast or its all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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