Vayne.8563 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > > > > > > > > > You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"... > > > > > > > > What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player. > > > > > > > > Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont think I am better than you or any other casual. > > > > > > > But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested. > > > > > > > I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring. > > > > > > > I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do. > > > > > > > > > > > > You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core?? > > > > > > > > > > Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day. > > > > > > > > > > Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore > > > > > > > > So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense > > > > > > Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content. > > > You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc... > > > We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW. > > > > > > > Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited. > > BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known. > > Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both. > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > > > > > > > > > You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"... > > > > > > > > What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player. > > > > > > > > Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont think I am better than you or any other casual. > > > > > > > But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested. > > > > > > > I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring. > > > > > > > I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do. > > > > > > > > > > > > You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core?? > > > > > > > > > > Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day. > > > > > > > > > > Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore > > > > > > > > So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense > > > > > > Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content. > > > You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc... > > > We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW. > > > > > > > Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited. > > BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known. > > Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both. Maybe so. But it didn't launch with raids and that was a selling point for me personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > > > > > > > > > > You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"... > > > > > > > > > What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player. > > > > > > > > > Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont think I am better than you or any other casual. > > > > > > > > But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested. > > > > > > > > I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring. > > > > > > > > I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core?? > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore > > > > > > > > > > So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense > > > > > > > > Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content. > > > > You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc... > > > > We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW. > > > > > > > > > > Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited. > > > BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known. > > > > Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both. > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > > > > > > > > > > You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"... > > > > > > > > > What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player. > > > > > > > > > Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont think I am better than you or any other casual. > > > > > > > > But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested. > > > > > > > > I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring. > > > > > > > > I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core?? > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore > > > > > > > > > > So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense > > > > > > > > Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content. > > > > You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc... > > > > We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW. > > > > > > > > > > Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited. > > > BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known. > > > > Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both. > > Maybe so. But it didn't launch with raids and that was a selling point for me personally. Ok? The point is the advertisement of this game apealed to both hardcore and casual players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > I'm not sure why players are expecting information on content that would be released a year to 2 years from now (what's coming after Season 5). Other than (Core) Guild Wars 2 has ArenaNet ever announced their plans so far in advance? They did to some degree before they went live. Probably a good many people followed the marketing and video releases as they worked toward launch, to some that might have set the standard even years after launch. In my opinion its the time investment in an MMO. What drew me and I believe others to MMOs was the thought of growth and of building overtime. It's not a 15 minute encounter its an encounter that lasts years. Time is one asset though that is finite. So understanding that the object that you have invested this time into will be still there growing in the future is a stabilizing feature. Probably a number of people here have encountered other games that have closed up shop on them, it can be a disconcerting feeling that a place you called home is no more. Many of us play multiple games to keep things fresh so it also comes down to do I spend more growth here or elsewhere. If you know the end is here do you ride it out to the last or do you start to establish a place elsewhere since there is that time investment. To me I know they are planning on a season 6 so there is yet time but I understand those that also raise the questions. I thought they were on a good trend giving us a general roadmap of what direction they were going but that shouldn't be a one off kind of thing, I think people are looking for that as more of an going thing. What are we working towards now, later, in the future. Be honest about features as well. Take WvW alliance system, is that even still a thing? If not, tell us. If it is, feed the players some of the complexities/challenges of it. If they are compiling player statistics currently that would be used in the calculations and testing grouping modelling with the 8 week resets, share that. If there are details about the data attributes being used, considered, thrown out, those are fine to share. I also understand there is a fine line to feeding players information since it takes away from development time if you have to pull people away from development to do that but a more measure cadence would not go amiss. Anyway from some that ask why others might ask, 2 cents. Good gaming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > > I dont see how anet can fix all the problems... slow raid/fractals release, bad pvp balance, alliances w/o proper balance will be trash. Xpac lvl content is probably going to be more new mounts, more armor skins etc.. but no proper actual content for ppl to get into for months. > > > > > > > > > > I dont think we will ever see new e-specs, race or weapon types... It will be just more story that like half of players dont even care about (atleast in my guild) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All the stuff you're listing to get into for months wouldn't interest me for minutes. It's like people who like challenging and competitive content think other people can't play the open world for years on end, and some of us do. I spend probably 90% of my time in either story instances or the open world and I'd wager I play quite a bit more than you do...nor am I alone. For every raider, I guarantee you there's a least one person who rarely leaves the open world. Just because content doesn't involve you and your demographic doesn't insure that demographic is some kind of majority. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While i agree with your point... it actually makes @"vyncius.6105" point valid also. > > > > > > > > The game is not about any one demographic it has tried to cater for many... and we are approaching stalemate for all. There is only so long we can keep going back and playing out the same story content, much like some of us grow tired of running the samecraids over and over, the same fractals and the same.. anything. > > > > > > > > The game needs something that is going to keep us all intrigued, busy and willing to keep supporting it and piece meal LW and a some QoL I feel isn't going to suffice for too long. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't prove his point, because if there aren't enough of other demographics and there's a limited time on resources, then decisions have to be made on what to cut. Let's pretend you're a developer and you have resources to produce 2 different things. 10% the game's population are raiders. 50% play Living World stuff. 20 % do Fractals. 25% do WvW regularly. Now you have to make stuff to keep the PvE open world guys happen. There are more of them than any two groups. If you're even a day late with the living world, some guy is online calling you out about it. In fact, there's already threads talking about when is Season 5 coming and what date and will it be late. Those people are holding you to account. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the 10% of the raiders all left, you'd lose 10% of your population. But you'd lose more than that if a significant group of PvE'ers left, and that's the issue. Anet probably doesn't have the resources and has never had the resources to keep it all going, because it takes a lot of resources. They have the resources to focus on what they perceive to be their strength which is what they've done. They haven't put the same energy into PvP or WvW as they have into open world PvE. It should be obvious to anyone watching, or anyone who reads those parts of the forum. My guess is they know which side their bread is buttered on and that's going to be their focus, with left over resources being put to stuff that they don't think there are enough people to cater to. It's like any business. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Given infinite resources, you'd be right. Also the numbers in this post are obviously pulled out of my kitten and don't represent anything approaching reality. The point is I don't have those numbers, but Anet does. I do believe there was a post by a dev a while back saying that 60% of the game were predominently PvEr's, 30% werre predominantly WvW'ers, and 10% were PvPers. To my knowledge there has never been any announcement about what percentage of the playerbase raids. The only time I've ever seen that sort of statement from any game was from a Lotro dev who left the company who said that only 10% of the Lotro population ever raided or PvPed, but those two demographics accounted for a full 50% of all forum posts. > > > > > > > > > > > > You missed the point vayne... what content they choose to focus on at any one time is anets decision absolutely, but the game is multi faceted and caters for a range of player tastes aside from the core story/story arc. > > > > > > No one expects ANET to update everything at once or any specific facet all the time.... that's why some roadmap, some slice of their vision and directions would be useful right now because from what I see.. all those different demographics are starting to ask questions and getting restless. > > > > > > LW is now their core element but it's small piece meal content bulked out with rotational fillers and some QoL but beyond s5 there is no clear direction on any front or any facet of the game and that is the crux of it. > > > > > > > > > > If they hadn't introduced raids in the first place, that demographic wouldn't even exist, which is my point. You see, originally the game was casual has hell, If you don't think they lost players by putting in harder core stuff all at once like HoT, I think you'd be in a minority. It's one of the biggest reasons HOT wasn't well received. The preperation for it wasn't good enough and too big a percentage of the player base was put off by it. I got your point, but you missed mine. > > > > > > > > > > If you have a budget of X money to spend, you're going to buy food and pay rent first, because that's what keeps you alive. If you have money left over, then you can pay for cable or netflix. In this game, PvE is probably what's keeping the game moving forward and those who play that content. Those who play other content have the tendency to think everyone is bored with X because they're bored with it. That's not necessarily the case. At the end of the day Anet knows who plays what in what numbers. They're going to base their development on that. If they had infinite resources it would obviously be different, but they don't. > > > > > > > > This is nothing to do with resources this is to do with communication... > > > > As I said ANET make decisions on what best to develop based on their own data and their vision for the game. But that is not what we're discussing here it's about sharing some smidgen of their vision with us because beyond s5 we really have no idea where this game is heading.... so yes you missed the point and instead have chosen to go off and try to rationise what content should be coming and how ANET go about it's decision making process. > > > > I agree the game was never marketed as some "hardcore " all out raid assault and as for Hot I see nothing in that content to suggest it was a section to shift the game that way. Yeah that introduced raid wings... big deal, but it is neither forced on anyone to play or needed by anyone, it merely offers some additional choice in the game...not such a bad thing really imo. > > > > The focus has never been centred around such content but it now has a place in the game no matter if we like it or not... and if your notion of resource allocation to population demographic were in fact, fact then raids would likely never any in fusion let alone future updates... but 6-7 wings kinda disproves that considering the racing community is much smaller imo. - but I digress, this is about communication not allocation. > > > > > > So what if Anet is trying stuff with Season 5 to see if they can do it, or we'd like it, and they can't decide exactly where to go from there, because they don't yet know our reaction to it? It's just so amorphous. > > > > > > Stephen King, when he writes, compared his writing to excavating a dinosaur. Piers Anthony outlines every single detail and rarely changes anything. When Piers Anthony submits an outline to a publisher, the book they get precisely matches the outline. The same can't be said for Stephen King, who like many creative people (including myself) discover as they go. There are advantages and disadvantages to doing it both ways. > > > > > > One way lends itself to communication up front, because you are sticking to a plan more or less rigidly. I have little doubt that Anet does nothing of the kind, and the futher out the plans we're talking about are, the less likely they are to come to fruition and bear fruit. Anet wrote an entire article once in their blog on how they're an interative company and they try different things and sometimes they have to discard entire systems. > > > > > > If you're the type of person who goes by plan, sure it's easy to say this is coming in a year after we're done with this other thing. I think Anet tends to function more like I did when I was writing full time. My clients were usually quite happy...not always but usually. In the mean time, I couldn't have been more of an outline than I did. I always had to use a lot of this is what I'm going to try but it may not work and I may end up having to do something different. > > > > > > At this point, I have to assume Anet operates the way I do. It doesn't work for people who think they should have a hard and fast plan, but hard and fast plans tend not to produce intuitive flashes that can make things much better. It's entirely possible that because I operate the way Anet seems to in my creative endeavors, I get why they can't speak to what's going to happen too far into the future. > > > > I would like to think ANET plan their product development a bit better than your hap hazard approach. > > I hope not ... the planning approach that brings that content is not flexible at all. The was about waiting till content gets received by us before making their next move... that is just very hap hazard and would lead to long delays ans/or port quality rushed out content. You need time to plan and within any good schedule there is always room for flexibility... you do t get that same allowance if your waiting for one thing to end before starting the process all over. As a business they need to ensure a level of fluidity in there planning process and yes at thecsame to be open to changes along the way. Stop start approaches like was being described don't afford you that same flexibility unless your willing to risk losing the audience when things for awry and changes need to be made pushing delivery back further and further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"kratan.4619" said: > > > > > There is pretty much nothing new that we didn't k ow already.... that roadmap (if that is what we want to call it) was nothing more than a PR headliner after the layoffs to help retain players through a tough patch. > > As for getting things every few weeks... WB and Meta rush events are not new content just some new loot boxes ... all of which was met with just as much silly RNG and glaringly obvious performance issues. Splashing a mail to our inbox and putting a UI note on the screen is not content when those same events are already in game. Yeah Dragon Bash was nice to see return and yeah it's made Hoelbrack seem busy again for a few weeks but it's nothing more than a grind fest pushed to try and keep players in game a bit longer and hopefully buy more gems in order to obtain those silly jorbreaker numbers.... newsflash - it's not been done for our benefit. > > And then we're back into summer season event rotations... ooh and the thrill a minute WWW core swap rubbish. > > To me ANET are seemingly preparing the game to run much like they did with GW1 on an autopilot hence nothing is being mentioned or announced beyond what we already know ... let's all hope that isn't all we can expect. > > So, you're saying that people will stop playing a game because a company has layoffs and that they need to mitigate this loss by showing that they are still working on the game? I could care less if they have layoffs, or how well they are doing financially, or how they use their resources, or even if they ever communicate with the player base. As long as the game is fun for me, I will continue to play for as long as it is fun. Once it is no longer fun, or if it shuts down, I will find something better for me to play. > > I have zero worries about the "health" of the game or if there will ever be any future content released. None of this has any effect on my enjoyment of the game as it is currently constructed. > Huh.. not sure how you arrived at that assumption, but if you wanna make 2+2 =22 all power to ya cos that had nothing to do with what was being discussed. It is absolutely about communicating something beyond what was already out there...nothing to do with players leaving the game cos of layoffs maybe go back and read slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > > > > > > > > > > You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"... > > > > > > > > > What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player. > > > > > > > > > Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont think I am better than you or any other casual. > > > > > > > > But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested. > > > > > > > > I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring. > > > > > > > > I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core?? > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore > > > > > > > > > > So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense > > > > > > > > Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content. > > > > You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc... > > > > We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW. > > > > > > > > > > Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited. > > > BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known. > > > > Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both. > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > > > > > > > > > > You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"... > > > > > > > > > What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player. > > > > > > > > > Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont think I am better than you or any other casual. > > > > > > > > But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested. > > > > > > > > I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring. > > > > > > > > I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core?? > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore > > > > > > > > > > So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense > > > > > > > > Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content. > > > > You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc... > > > > We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW. > > > > > > > > > > Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited. > > > BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known. > > > > Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both. > > Maybe so. But it didn't launch with raids and that was a selling point for me personally. To be honest I am trying to use @"vyncius.6105" notion of hard-core over casual in relation to how the game released and I am struggling to see anything that would appeal to the hard-core. I mean dungeon running is probably the closest, but can't even remember if we had all those dungeons/paths in game at the start either if I'm honest... So yeah it wasn't marketed as a hard-core friendly game imo and it wasn't until raid wings and fractal cm's were given life in the game that genuine hard-core gaming began.... if we again use the @"vyncius.6105" idea of hard-core he presented in this thread backs that up :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorani.7205 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"Dami.5046" said: > I don't remember tons and tons and communication in the first game (apart from the pvp guys moaning quelle surprise) and I still enjoyed the game. Gods knows how some of you would of coped in 2005. > Classic GW was different on how things were communicated, but I doubt there was less information. 1. The game did not have an official forum, it was gwonline.net and gwguru, which did support the game as un-official forums. 2. The devs (mostly Gaile Gray and Izzy Cartwright, later Lindsey Murdock) were very frequently lurking on the those forums and because that had a very close eye on the current emotional state of the community. The Anet team was much smaller then though. 3. "The frog" appeared frequently in LA Int1 and talked to players in game in map chat. The frog has always been very enigmatic and vague, like a sphinx. People (inluding myself and other members of [boat] did "screenshot-log" those conversations and the discussions about what the enigmatic frog told us filled pages of forum threads. 4. We never expected the Frog (Gaile) to tell us facts. We were happy and engaged by constant guessing what will come next. We had been less informed with facts, but happily engaged in community interaction a decade ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dami.5046 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"Gorani.7205" said: > > @"Dami.5046" said: > > I don't remember tons and tons and communication in the first game (apart from the pvp guys moaning quelle surprise) and I still enjoyed the game. Gods knows how some of you would of coped in 2005. > > > Classic GW was different on how things were communicated, but I doubt there was less information. > 1. The game did not have an official forum, it was gwonline.net and gwguru, which did support the game as un-official forums. > 2. The devs (mostly Gaile Gray and Izzy Cartwright, later Lindsey Murdock) were very frequently lurking on the those forums and because that had a very close eye on the current emotional state of the community. The Anet team was much smaller then though. > 3. "The frog" appeared frequently in LA Int1 and talked to players in game in map chat. The frog has always been very enigmatic and vague, like a sphinx. People (inluding myself and other members of [boat] did "screenshot-log" those conversations and the discussions about what the enigmatic frog told us filled pages of forum threads. > 4. We never expected the Frog (Gaile) to tell us facts. We were happy and engaged by constant guessing what will come next. > > We had been less informed with facts, but happily engaged in community interaction a decade ago. And some of you will, no doubt, wonder why that doesn't happen now. Good old guru. I remember the armour posts fondly. Just goes to show how happy we were to have Gaile and Frog in those days. Wouldn't work now. There is no respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"... > > > > > > > > > > What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player. > > > > > > > > > > Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont think I am better than you or any other casual. > > > > > > > > > But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested. > > > > > > > > > I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring. > > > > > > > > > I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore > > > > > > > > > > > > So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense > > > > > > > > > > Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content. > > > > > You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc... > > > > > We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited. > > > > BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known. > > > > > > Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both. > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"... > > > > > > > > > > What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player. > > > > > > > > > > Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont think I am better than you or any other casual. > > > > > > > > > But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested. > > > > > > > > > I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring. > > > > > > > > > I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore > > > > > > > > > > > > So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense > > > > > > > > > > Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content. > > > > > You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc... > > > > > We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited. > > > > BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known. > > > > > > Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both. > > > > Maybe so. But it didn't launch with raids and that was a selling point for me personally. > > To be honest I am trying to use @"vyncius.6105" notion of hard-core over casual in relation to how the game released and I am struggling to see anything that would appeal to the hard-core. I mean dungeon running is probably the closest, but can't even remember if we had all those dungeons/paths in game at the start either if I'm honest... > So yeah it wasn't marketed as a hard-core friendly game imo and it wasn't until raid wings and fractal cm's were given life in the game that genuine hard-core gaming began.... if we again use the @"vyncius.6105" idea of hard-core he presented in this thread backs that up :) The dungeons were marketed as hard group content and iirc all except like some lw1 dungeons were in there at launch, now if dungeons were nerfed later on or didnt meet expectations is just another thing to put in the list of things anet talked about and then didnt really deliver afterwards. Im just calling ou the notion that gw2 never marketed having hardcore content and that anet broke some "promise" of no hardcore content by introducing t4s, fractals cms and raids later on. Wp made a vid specifically on this as well a while back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KryTiKaL.3125 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"Dami.5046" said: > I don't remember tons and tons of communication in the first game (apart from the pvp guys moaning quelle surprise) and I still enjoyed the game. Gods knows how some of you would of coped in 2005. > Player engagement was different then, significantly different. Back in the early 2000s Live streaming was *barely*, and I mean *barely* a thing (Twitch was in fact Justin.tv from 2007 until like 2011) Youtube was in its infancy, reddit was not a thing, social media was not a thing with the exception of like Myspace and Facebook and I mean c'mon...early days of either of those platforms was not great (they aren't great today either to be fair).Hell even GW2 launched when Twitch was still kind of getting its legs. So of course communication was basically entirely limited to the forums and that is it. This is 2019, the environment is drastically different these days and the way that the developers can engage and communicate with their communities is much more expansive and can be much more involved. I keep bringing this up as an example...but Warframe's Devs (Digital Extremes) do an exceptional job at this and it has only benefited them in the long run. Go to their youtube channel and look up any of their Devstreams and they are rather candid and communicate very well with the community on Warframe. Their weekly streams are actually interesting to watch, they show they *actually* play the game and have streams where they even do as such and engage more directly with their community. And Warframe has been blossoming for years because of it, just look at how much it has evolved and improved. If you're unaware of it you need to get aware because you might actually get a glimpse of a company that does this stuff very well. ANet fully has the capability to do better here with communication because their approach right now isn't sufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said: > > @"Dami.5046" said: > > I don't remember tons and tons of communication in the first game (apart from the pvp guys moaning quelle surprise) and I still enjoyed the game. Gods knows how some of you would of coped in 2005. > > > > Player engagement was different then, significantly different. Back in the early 2000s Live streaming was *barely*, and I mean *barely* a thing (Twitch was in fact Justin.tv from 2007 until like 2011) Youtube was in its infancy, reddit was not a thing, social media was not a thing with the exception of like Myspace and Facebook and I mean c'mon...early days of either of those platforms was not great (they aren't great today either to be fair).Hell even GW2 launched when Twitch was still kind of getting its legs. > > So of course communication was basically entirely limited to the forums and that is it. > > This is 2019, the environment is drastically different these days and the way that the developers can engage and communicate with their communities is much more expansive and can be much more involved. > > I keep bringing this up as an example...but Warframe's Devs (Digital Extremes) do an exceptional job at this and it has only benefited them in the long run. Go to their youtube channel and look up any of their Devstreams and they are rather candid and communicate very well with the community on Warframe. Their weekly streams are actually interesting to watch, they show they *actually* play the game and have streams where they even do as such and engage more directly with their community. And Warframe has been blossoming for years because of it, just look at how much it has evolved and improved. If you're unaware of it you need to get aware because you might actually get a glimpse of a company that does this stuff very well. > > ANet fully has the capability to do better here with communication because their approach right now isn't sufficient. And ArenaNet streams weekly playing the game (Thursdays and often on Tuesdays with a Release), and most weeks offers 'Dev talk' on Guild Chat (Fridays). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dami.5046 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 I don't see the need for them to keep updating. We are expecting season 5 at some point, that's enough for me. I watch many of their streams as it happens, apart from the art one (since Gaile left) and the WvW is on too late my time but I normally catch up on it the day after. Other than that my point still stands. Whenever Anet decide to 'communicate' doesn't change or dictate my enjoyment of the game, be it Gw1 or this one. Nor does any streamer's point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KryTiKaL.3125 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said: > > > @"Dami.5046" said: > > > I don't remember tons and tons of communication in the first game (apart from the pvp guys moaning quelle surprise) and I still enjoyed the game. Gods knows how some of you would of coped in 2005. > > > > > > > Player engagement was different then, significantly different. Back in the early 2000s Live streaming was *barely*, and I mean *barely* a thing (Twitch was in fact Justin.tv from 2007 until like 2011) Youtube was in its infancy, reddit was not a thing, social media was not a thing with the exception of like Myspace and Facebook and I mean c'mon...early days of either of those platforms was not great (they aren't great today either to be fair).Hell even GW2 launched when Twitch was still kind of getting its legs. > > > > So of course communication was basically entirely limited to the forums and that is it. > > > > This is 2019, the environment is drastically different these days and the way that the developers can engage and communicate with their communities is much more expansive and can be much more involved. > > > > I keep bringing this up as an example...but Warframe's Devs (Digital Extremes) do an exceptional job at this and it has only benefited them in the long run. Go to their youtube channel and look up any of their Devstreams and they are rather candid and communicate very well with the community on Warframe. Their weekly streams are actually interesting to watch, they show they *actually* play the game and have streams where they even do as such and engage more directly with their community. And Warframe has been blossoming for years because of it, just look at how much it has evolved and improved. If you're unaware of it you need to get aware because you might actually get a glimpse of a company that does this stuff very well. > > > > ANet fully has the capability to do better here with communication because their approach right now isn't sufficient. > > And ArenaNet streams weekly playing the game (Thursdays and often on Tuesdays with a Release), and most weeks offers 'Dev talk' on Guild Chat (Fridays). Except those aren't informative. Guild Chat has mostly just been them playing content that is already out, and in a recent case the Skyscale one was just them showing how the mount worked. While I'd say that is a step in the right direction its still not nearly enough to what I'm referring to that the Warframe Devs do. I have also yet to see them ackowledge "Yeah, this is a problem in the game...here are some ideas we have to try and fix it." and similar such discussions. I mean you can act like I'm criticizing over nothing, or I'm just having a knee jerk reaction, but this has been the case for this game for a few years now and I only started to realize it more and more because of how much more frequently I am playing other games and seeing what other Developers do and how they interact with their community. You could say I've been spoiled by Warframe and its Devs and how well they do with communication and content updates, that I've been spoiled by BDO and its constant stream of updates and content releases, that I'm judging them too harshly. I'm not. I've just been a part of the GW community since GW1 released and the GW I see today is honestly disappointing especially when you take a step back and look at a larger picture. I *want* this game to do well, and it has done okay for a long time, but things have gotten to a point where apparently criticism isn't okay and that its wrong for people to suggest that the Devs try and improve in these areas especially when we can *see* that it has had a negative impact on things. Even *Bungie* took a step in the right direction by stepping *away* from Activision and are now trying to remedy many of the problems that plagued Destiny 2 from release until now. Know why? They listened to their community, they made adjustments because of it. Warframe has been growing and growing for the same reasons, they *listen* and *engage* with their community and they do it well. ANet...doesn't do it well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zexanima.7851 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 Their lack of communication is a detriment to the game and is a good chunk of the reason my friends and I no longer play. This isn't likely to change either which is sad because at it's base I do enjoy the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 I don't think Guild Chat often shows the Devs playing the content. You are probably confusing that with the "Let's Play" streams on Tuesdays. They usually have the Devs associated with creating some content explaining how/why/etc., and answer some questions at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said: > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said: > > > > @"Dami.5046" said: > > > > I don't remember tons and tons of communication in the first game (apart from the pvp guys moaning quelle surprise) and I still enjoyed the game. Gods knows how some of you would of coped in 2005. > > > > > > > > > > Player engagement was different then, significantly different. Back in the early 2000s Live streaming was *barely*, and I mean *barely* a thing (Twitch was in fact Justin.tv from 2007 until like 2011) Youtube was in its infancy, reddit was not a thing, social media was not a thing with the exception of like Myspace and Facebook and I mean c'mon...early days of either of those platforms was not great (they aren't great today either to be fair).Hell even GW2 launched when Twitch was still kind of getting its legs. > > > > > > So of course communication was basically entirely limited to the forums and that is it. > > > > > > This is 2019, the environment is drastically different these days and the way that the developers can engage and communicate with their communities is much more expansive and can be much more involved. > > > > > > I keep bringing this up as an example...but Warframe's Devs (Digital Extremes) do an exceptional job at this and it has only benefited them in the long run. Go to their youtube channel and look up any of their Devstreams and they are rather candid and communicate very well with the community on Warframe. Their weekly streams are actually interesting to watch, they show they *actually* play the game and have streams where they even do as such and engage more directly with their community. And Warframe has been blossoming for years because of it, just look at how much it has evolved and improved. If you're unaware of it you need to get aware because you might actually get a glimpse of a company that does this stuff very well. > > > > > > ANet fully has the capability to do better here with communication because their approach right now isn't sufficient. > > > > And ArenaNet streams weekly playing the game (Thursdays and often on Tuesdays with a Release), and most weeks offers 'Dev talk' on Guild Chat (Fridays). > > Except those aren't informative. Guild Chat has mostly just been them playing content that is already out, and in a recent case the Skyscale one was just them showing how the mount worked. While I'd say that is a step in the right direction its still not nearly enough to what I'm referring to that the Warframe Devs do. I have also yet to see them ackowledge "Yeah, this is a problem in the game...here are some ideas we have to try and fix it." and similar such discussions. > > I mean you can act like I'm criticizing over nothing, or I'm just having a knee jerk reaction, but this has been the case for this game for a few years now and I only started to realize it more and more because of how much more frequently I am playing other games and seeing what other Developers do and how they interact with their community. You could say I've been spoiled by Warframe and its Devs and how well they do with communication and content updates, that I've been spoiled by BDO and its constant stream of updates and content releases, that I'm judging them too harshly. I'm not. I've just been a part of the GW community since GW1 released and the GW I see today is honestly disappointing especially when you take a step back and look at a larger picture. > > I *want* this game to do well, and it has done okay for a long time, but things have gotten to a point where apparently criticism isn't okay and that its wrong for people to suggest that the Devs try and improve in these areas especially when we can *see* that it has had a negative impact on things. Even *Bungie* took a step in the right direction by stepping *away* from Activision and are now trying to remedy many of the problems that plagued Destiny 2 from release until now. Know why? They listened to their community, they made adjustments because of it. Warframe has been growing and growing for the same reasons, they *listen* and *engage* with their community and they do it well. ANet...doesn't do it well. To be fair to the devs tho, they are likely muzzled to a large degree... imo its those who are tasked with the responsibily of pushing anet onwards in whatever directions they decide is best, that need to either loosen the lip or allow the devs to interact with us with a little more openess and clarity as to where things are future bound. It's not about constant hand holing the community, but it is about showing the community they have a vision as to where they want this game to go and how they are considering getting there. We all know plans can change for a multitude of reasons but with change can also come opportunity and I think we would all like to help and share in that. Sure there will be those who seek to only call down the sky when things run out of timelines or don't quite meet someone's expectations amongst the plethora of everyone elses... but that is the nature of the beast they work with, everything they do is open to scrutiny by us all the time and if a little negative feedback is a reason for keeping lips sealed tight then ... well it's not the way in would want to handle client expectations for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > I don't think Guild Chat often shows the Devs playing the content. You are probably confusing that with the "Let's Play" streams on Tuesdays. > They usually have the Devs associated with creating some content explaining how/why/etc., and answer some questions at the end. The basic principle still stand about his comment, they talk about old stuff which have already been released and largely neglect or dont answer questiond about the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > I dont see how anet can fix all the problems... slow raid/fractals release, bad pvp balance, alliances w/o proper balance will be trash. Xpac lvl content is probably going to be more new mounts, more armor skins etc.. but no proper actual content for ppl to get into for months. > > > > > > > > > > > I dont think we will ever see new e-specs, race or weapon types... It will be just more story that like half of players dont even care about (atleast in my guild) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All the stuff you're listing to get into for months wouldn't interest me for minutes. It's like people who like challenging and competitive content think other people can't play the open world for years on end, and some of us do. I spend probably 90% of my time in either story instances or the open world and I'd wager I play quite a bit more than you do...nor am I alone. For every raider, I guarantee you there's a least one person who rarely leaves the open world. Just because content doesn't involve you and your demographic doesn't insure that demographic is some kind of majority. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While i agree with your point... it actually makes @"vyncius.6105" point valid also. > > > > > > > > > The game is not about any one demographic it has tried to cater for many... and we are approaching stalemate for all. There is only so long we can keep going back and playing out the same story content, much like some of us grow tired of running the samecraids over and over, the same fractals and the same.. anything. > > > > > > > > > The game needs something that is going to keep us all intrigued, busy and willing to keep supporting it and piece meal LW and a some QoL I feel isn't going to suffice for too long. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't prove his point, because if there aren't enough of other demographics and there's a limited time on resources, then decisions have to be made on what to cut. Let's pretend you're a developer and you have resources to produce 2 different things. 10% the game's population are raiders. 50% play Living World stuff. 20 % do Fractals. 25% do WvW regularly. Now you have to make stuff to keep the PvE open world guys happen. There are more of them than any two groups. If you're even a day late with the living world, some guy is online calling you out about it. In fact, there's already threads talking about when is Season 5 coming and what date and will it be late. Those people are holding you to account. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the 10% of the raiders all left, you'd lose 10% of your population. But you'd lose more than that if a significant group of PvE'ers left, and that's the issue. Anet probably doesn't have the resources and has never had the resources to keep it all going, because it takes a lot of resources. They have the resources to focus on what they perceive to be their strength which is what they've done. They haven't put the same energy into PvP or WvW as they have into open world PvE. It should be obvious to anyone watching, or anyone who reads those parts of the forum. My guess is they know which side their bread is buttered on and that's going to be their focus, with left over resources being put to stuff that they don't think there are enough people to cater to. It's like any business. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Given infinite resources, you'd be right. Also the numbers in this post are obviously pulled out of my kitten and don't represent anything approaching reality. The point is I don't have those numbers, but Anet does. I do believe there was a post by a dev a while back saying that 60% of the game were predominently PvEr's, 30% werre predominantly WvW'ers, and 10% were PvPers. To my knowledge there has never been any announcement about what percentage of the playerbase raids. The only time I've ever seen that sort of statement from any game was from a Lotro dev who left the company who said that only 10% of the Lotro population ever raided or PvPed, but those two demographics accounted for a full 50% of all forum posts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You missed the point vayne... what content they choose to focus on at any one time is anets decision absolutely, but the game is multi faceted and caters for a range of player tastes aside from the core story/story arc. > > > > > > > No one expects ANET to update everything at once or any specific facet all the time.... that's why some roadmap, some slice of their vision and directions would be useful right now because from what I see.. all those different demographics are starting to ask questions and getting restless. > > > > > > > LW is now their core element but it's small piece meal content bulked out with rotational fillers and some QoL but beyond s5 there is no clear direction on any front or any facet of the game and that is the crux of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > If they hadn't introduced raids in the first place, that demographic wouldn't even exist, which is my point. You see, originally the game was casual has hell, If you don't think they lost players by putting in harder core stuff all at once like HoT, I think you'd be in a minority. It's one of the biggest reasons HOT wasn't well received. The preperation for it wasn't good enough and too big a percentage of the player base was put off by it. I got your point, but you missed mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have a budget of X money to spend, you're going to buy food and pay rent first, because that's what keeps you alive. If you have money left over, then you can pay for cable or netflix. In this game, PvE is probably what's keeping the game moving forward and those who play that content. Those who play other content have the tendency to think everyone is bored with X because they're bored with it. That's not necessarily the case. At the end of the day Anet knows who plays what in what numbers. They're going to base their development on that. If they had infinite resources it would obviously be different, but they don't. > > > > > > > > > > This is nothing to do with resources this is to do with communication... > > > > > As I said ANET make decisions on what best to develop based on their own data and their vision for the game. But that is not what we're discussing here it's about sharing some smidgen of their vision with us because beyond s5 we really have no idea where this game is heading.... so yes you missed the point and instead have chosen to go off and try to rationise what content should be coming and how ANET go about it's decision making process. > > > > > I agree the game was never marketed as some "hardcore " all out raid assault and as for Hot I see nothing in that content to suggest it was a section to shift the game that way. Yeah that introduced raid wings... big deal, but it is neither forced on anyone to play or needed by anyone, it merely offers some additional choice in the game...not such a bad thing really imo. > > > > > The focus has never been centred around such content but it now has a place in the game no matter if we like it or not... and if your notion of resource allocation to population demographic were in fact, fact then raids would likely never any in fusion let alone future updates... but 6-7 wings kinda disproves that considering the racing community is much smaller imo. - but I digress, this is about communication not allocation. > > > > > > > > So what if Anet is trying stuff with Season 5 to see if they can do it, or we'd like it, and they can't decide exactly where to go from there, because they don't yet know our reaction to it? It's just so amorphous. > > > > > > > > Stephen King, when he writes, compared his writing to excavating a dinosaur. Piers Anthony outlines every single detail and rarely changes anything. When Piers Anthony submits an outline to a publisher, the book they get precisely matches the outline. The same can't be said for Stephen King, who like many creative people (including myself) discover as they go. There are advantages and disadvantages to doing it both ways. > > > > > > > > One way lends itself to communication up front, because you are sticking to a plan more or less rigidly. I have little doubt that Anet does nothing of the kind, and the futher out the plans we're talking about are, the less likely they are to come to fruition and bear fruit. Anet wrote an entire article once in their blog on how they're an interative company and they try different things and sometimes they have to discard entire systems. > > > > > > > > If you're the type of person who goes by plan, sure it's easy to say this is coming in a year after we're done with this other thing. I think Anet tends to function more like I did when I was writing full time. My clients were usually quite happy...not always but usually. In the mean time, I couldn't have been more of an outline than I did. I always had to use a lot of this is what I'm going to try but it may not work and I may end up having to do something different. > > > > > > > > At this point, I have to assume Anet operates the way I do. It doesn't work for people who think they should have a hard and fast plan, but hard and fast plans tend not to produce intuitive flashes that can make things much better. It's entirely possible that because I operate the way Anet seems to in my creative endeavors, I get why they can't speak to what's going to happen too far into the future. > > > > > > I would like to think ANET plan their product development a bit better than your hap hazard approach. > > > > I hope not ... the planning approach that brings that content is not flexible at all. > > The was about waiting till content gets received by us before making their next move... that is just very hap hazard and would lead to long delays ans/or port quality rushed out content. You need time to plan and within any good schedule there is always room for flexibility... you do t get that same allowance if your waiting for one thing to end before starting the process all over. > As a business they need to ensure a level of fluidity in there planning process and yes at thecsame to be open to changes along the way. > Stop start approaches like was being described don't afford you that same flexibility unless your willing to risk losing the audience when things for awry and changes need to be made pushing delivery back further and further. Well that's true and not true. It's a trade off. The implementation of mounts in this game is the best implementation of mounts I've ever seen in any game. I'm sure that snowballed and wasn't planned to be the way it was prior to how it started. Stuff like the roller beetle is massively fun, but I doubt it was planned with the rest of the mounts. They can' t just say there'll be another mount of there's not another niche that needs to be filled which requires brainstorming. The problem is if everything is just by plan and everything is regular, very often everything is a clone of something already being done before. Because that's the easiest thing to plan. You can't really plan innovation. I'd rather deal with the innovation and content flubs and draughts than a paint by numbers game, or a game that waits to see what's successful in other games and just steals the idea. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"... > > > > > > > > > > > What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player. > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont think I am better than you or any other casual. > > > > > > > > > > But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested. > > > > > > > > > > I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring. > > > > > > > > > > I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content. > > > > > > You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc... > > > > > > We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited. > > > > > BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known. > > > > > > > > Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both. > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"... > > > > > > > > > > > What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player. > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont think I am better than you or any other casual. > > > > > > > > > > But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested. > > > > > > > > > > I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring. > > > > > > > > > > I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content. > > > > > > You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc... > > > > > > We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited. > > > > > BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known. > > > > > > > > Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both. > > > > > > Maybe so. But it didn't launch with raids and that was a selling point for me personally. > > > > To be honest I am trying to use @"vyncius.6105" notion of hard-core over casual in relation to how the game released and I am struggling to see anything that would appeal to the hard-core. I mean dungeon running is probably the closest, but can't even remember if we had all those dungeons/paths in game at the start either if I'm honest... > > So yeah it wasn't marketed as a hard-core friendly game imo and it wasn't until raid wings and fractal cm's were given life in the game that genuine hard-core gaming began.... if we again use the @"vyncius.6105" idea of hard-core he presented in this thread backs that up :) > > The dungeons were marketed as hard group content and iirc all except like some lw1 dungeons were in there at launch, now if dungeons were nerfed later on or didnt meet expectations is just another thing to put in the list of things anet talked about and then didnt really deliver afterwards. > > Im just calling ou the notion that gw2 never marketed having hardcore content and that anet broke some "promise" of no hardcore content by introducing t4s, fractals cms and raids later on. > > Wp made a vid specifically on this as well a while back. But they weren't marketed as the mainstay of the game, dynamic events were. When you went to cons, they talked very little by percentage of time about dungeons and talked quite a bit about dynamic events and personal story. I knew going in, just from listening, that the game would be about a "living breathing world" because that's what Anet spent most of their time talking about. Obviously that world could have been amazingly hard, but they were talking about dynamic events being what the game was about. Their example of an end game zone at launch was Orr and it was pretty hard. Hard enough for people to complain and get nerfed. Yet it was still zergable by casuals if you didn't want to solo it. If you were already programmed by other MMOs the dungeons were important, sure you focused more on them. I was always hoping for an open world game, and that's what I got, and it was what I expected from how the game was sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > To be honest I am trying to use @"vyncius.6105" notion of hard-core over casual in relation to how the game released and I am struggling to see anything that would appeal to the hard-core. I mean dungeon running is probably the closest, but can't even remember if we had all those dungeons/paths in game at the start either if I'm honest... > > So yeah it wasn't marketed as a hard-core friendly game imo and it wasn't until raid wings and fractal cm's were given life in the game that genuine hard-core gaming began.... if we again use the @"vyncius.6105" idea of hard-core he presented in this thread backs that up :) > > The dungeons were marketed as hard group content and iirc all except like some lw1 dungeons were in there at launch, now if dungeons were nerfed later on or didnt meet expectations is just another thing to put in the list of things anet talked about and then didnt really deliver afterwards. > > Im just calling ou the notion that gw2 never marketed having hardcore content and that anet broke some "promise" of no hardcore content by introducing t4s, fractals cms and raids later on. > > Wp made a vid specifically on this as well a while back. Zealex is correct. In a Eurogamer article in 2011, Colin Johanson referred to explorable dungeons as... "Eurogamer: The hardest content in the game, then, is the five-man dungeons? Colin Johanson: Correct. There are two versions of every dungeon: a story mode that you do first... that's pick-up group friendly. It's much easier and fun content that has a lot of cinematics in and tells a fun story. And when you finish the story dungeon, you unlock an explorable dungeon. And the explorable dungeon tells the story of what happens after you completed the story dungeon. That is the most difficult content in our game, our explorable dungeons. They're very, very hard. And they're actually really unique when you look at traditional MMO raids. In Guild Wars 2, every time you load into one of our explorable dungeons you actually get to vote on what path you want to take through the dungeon, and there is a minimum of three paths through the dungeon, and each path is completely different and unique. You can play a dungeon over and over and experience it in different ways." and "Eurogamer: How are you handling endgame loot - will we be farming bosses? Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It's all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game: armour pieces, potentially different potions - a lot of that is still up in the air and we'll finalise a lot of those reward systems as we get closer to release. And those come off of things like the bosses at the end of dungeons - _the raids_." [emphasis mine] https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-27-guild-wars-2-preview?page=3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > To be honest I am trying to use @"vyncius.6105" notion of hard-core over casual in relation to how the game released and I am struggling to see anything that would appeal to the hard-core. I mean dungeon running is probably the closest, but can't even remember if we had all those dungeons/paths in game at the start either if I'm honest... > > > So yeah it wasn't marketed as a hard-core friendly game imo and it wasn't until raid wings and fractal cm's were given life in the game that genuine hard-core gaming began.... if we again use the @"vyncius.6105" idea of hard-core he presented in this thread backs that up :) > > > > The dungeons were marketed as hard group content and iirc all except like some lw1 dungeons were in there at launch, now if dungeons were nerfed later on or didnt meet expectations is just another thing to put in the list of things anet talked about and then didnt really deliver afterwards. > > > > Im just calling ou the notion that gw2 never marketed having hardcore content and that anet broke some "promise" of no hardcore content by introducing t4s, fractals cms and raids later on. > > > > Wp made a vid specifically on this as well a while back. > > Zealex is correct. In a Eurogamer article in 2011, Colin Johanson referred to explorable dungeons as... > > "Eurogamer: The hardest content in the game, then, is the five-man dungeons? > > Colin Johanson: Correct. There are two versions of every dungeon: a story mode that you do first... that's pick-up group friendly. It's much easier and fun content that has a lot of cinematics in and tells a fun story. And when you finish the story dungeon, you unlock an explorable dungeon. And the explorable dungeon tells the story of what happens after you completed the story dungeon. > > That is the most difficult content in our game, our explorable dungeons. They're very, very hard. And they're actually really unique when you look at traditional MMO raids. In Guild Wars 2, every time you load into one of our explorable dungeons you actually get to vote on what path you want to take through the dungeon, and there is a minimum of three paths through the dungeon, and each path is completely different and unique. You can play a dungeon over and over and experience it in different ways." > > and > > "Eurogamer: How are you handling endgame loot - will we be farming bosses? > > Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It's all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game: armour pieces, potentially different potions - a lot of that is still up in the air and we'll finalise a lot of those reward systems as we get closer to release. And those come off of things like the bosses at the end of dungeons - _the raids_." [emphasis mine] > > https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-27-guild-wars-2-preview?page=3 W8 they even compaired it to raids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"... > > > > > > > > > > > > What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont think I am better than you or any other casual. > > > > > > > > > > > But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested. > > > > > > > > > > > I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring. > > > > > > > > > > > I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content. > > > > > > > You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc... > > > > > > > We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited. > > > > > > BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known. > > > > > > > > > > Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both. > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"vyncius.6105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"... > > > > > > > > > > > > What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont think I am better than you or any other casual. > > > > > > > > > > > But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested. > > > > > > > > > > > I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring. > > > > > > > > > > > I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content. > > > > > > > You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc... > > > > > > > We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited. > > > > > > BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known. > > > > > > > > > > Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both. > > > > > > > > Maybe so. But it didn't launch with raids and that was a selling point for me personally. > > > > > > To be honest I am trying to use @"vyncius.6105" notion of hard-core over casual in relation to how the game released and I am struggling to see anything that would appeal to the hard-core. I mean dungeon running is probably the closest, but can't even remember if we had all those dungeons/paths in game at the start either if I'm honest... > > > So yeah it wasn't marketed as a hard-core friendly game imo and it wasn't until raid wings and fractal cm's were given life in the game that genuine hard-core gaming began.... if we again use the @"vyncius.6105" idea of hard-core he presented in this thread backs that up :) > > > > The dungeons were marketed as hard group content and iirc all except like some lw1 dungeons were in there at launch, now if dungeons were nerfed later on or didnt meet expectations is just another thing to put in the list of things anet talked about and then didnt really deliver afterwards. > > > > Im just calling ou the notion that gw2 never marketed having hardcore content and that anet broke some "promise" of no hardcore content by introducing t4s, fractals cms and raids later on. > > > > Wp made a vid specifically on this as well a while back. > > But they weren't marketed as the mainstay of the game, dynamic events were. When you went to cons, they talked very little by percentage of time about dungeons and talked quite a bit about dynamic events and personal story. I knew going in, just from listening, that the game would be about a "living breathing world" because that's what Anet spent most of their time talking about. > > Obviously that world could have been amazingly hard, but they were talking about dynamic events being what the game was about. Their example of an end game zone at launch was Orr and it was pretty hard. Hard enough for people to complain and get nerfed. Yet it was still zergable by casuals if you didn't want to solo it. If you were already programmed by other MMOs the dungeons were important, sure you focused more on them. I was always hoping for an open world game, and that's what I got, and it was what I expected from how the game was sold. Were dynamic events marketed as easy content? What i remember was that dynamic events were the content that players would group up for, tranditionally group content has been more demanding content and casual plays is usually, not always, but usually solo oriented. Plus i suspect dynamic events got more attention could possibly be because as a concept were quite new if not an entirely new thing. If i were a dev i would totaly advertise something unique about my game too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > I don't think Guild Chat often shows the Devs playing the content. You are probably confusing that with the "Let's Play" streams on Tuesdays. > > They usually have the Devs associated with creating some content explaining how/why/etc., and answer some questions at the end. > > The basic principle still stand about his comment, they talk about old stuff which have already been released and largely neglect or dont answer questiond about the future. Pretty sure the Devs discuss current stuff, usually. Not old stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > > I don't think Guild Chat often shows the Devs playing the content. You are probably confusing that with the "Let's Play" streams on Tuesdays. > > > They usually have the Devs associated with creating some content explaining how/why/etc., and answer some questions at the end. > > > > The basic principle still stand about his comment, they talk about old stuff which have already been released and largely neglect or dont answer questiond about the future. > > Pretty sure the Devs discuss current stuff, usually. Not old stuff. The streams are usually a week after the content has released. I mean current? Sure but for a number if ppl that have goje through the content its old. Anyways the exact word doesnt matter, what matters is that its never about upcomming content (except skycscale which i consider a step in the right direction). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Release is on Tuesday, Guild Chat on Friday. So, usually not a week. And yes, they don't talk about upcoming content other than to say they don't talk about upcoming content. That's been their policy. Regardless, this thread is supposed to be about a lack of communication. I guess it's become a thread about lack of communication that some prefer, i.e. future content. /shrug I don't really have a stake in it, either way. As long as something is released every couple of weeks, or so, I'm fine with it. And, if I want to know what's coming in the next release, there are other sites to peruse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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