Impossible collections to get

[Dante.1763]

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > @"Urud.4925" said:

> > Do we want to talk about the Merchandise Collector? The Visage of the Kan-Ur is at 6199 gold on the TP... 3 legendaries for 1 AP. A bargain!

> > The only good thing is that being this achievement the only one that I missed in the story journal, I gave up also on the following ones, like Hold onto the light. It's a thing to complete all the achievements of a category, but if you miss 1, you may miss 2 of them as well.

>

> We don't because your information is outdated. That collection no longer requires those items. It only requires 12 items to complete now.

 

It also seems bugged where when you get the Khan ur mask and unlock it, it auto completes the collection. Mine did at least. i still had quite a few items left to get for the achievements. Bought the helmet, and everything unlocked.

 

and to be fair to the collection(the one the topic was made for), i dont enjoy buying items off the trading post. Id rather have account bound drops that are decently farmable over the trading post any day. For me there is no real "feels good man" feeling when i get things of the trading post, but the RNG in this game is so terrible that you -must- buy things of the trading post.

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > > @"Urud.4925" said:

> > > Do we want to talk about the Merchandise Collector? The Visage of the Kan-Ur is at 6199 gold on the TP... 3 legendaries for 1 AP. A bargain!

> > > The only good thing is that being this achievement the only one that I missed in the story journal, I gave up also on the following ones, like Hold onto the light. It's a thing to complete all the achievements of a category, but if you miss 1, you may miss 2 of them as well.

> >

> > We don't because your information is outdated. That collection no longer requires those items. It only requires 12 items to complete now.

>

> It also seems bugged where when you get the Khan ur mask and unlock it, it auto completes the collection. Mine did at least. i still had quite a few items left to get for the achievements. Bought the helmet, and everything unlocked.

>

> and to be fair to the collection(the one the topic was made for), i dont enjoy buying items off the trading post. Id rather have account bound drops that are decently farmable over the trading post any day. For me there is no real "feels good man" feeling when i get things of the trading post, but the RNG in this game is so terrible that you -must- buy things of the trading post.

 

but what is so special about a random drop? I could understand if it was a skill thing.

[Kunzaito.8169]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> and to be fair to the collection(the one the topic was made for), i dont enjoy buying items off the trading post. Id rather have account bound drops that are decently farmable over the trading post any day. For me there is no real "feels good man" feeling when i get things of the trading post, but the RNG in this game is so terrible that you -must- buy things of the trading post.

 

They do have content like that, it's just not *this specific* content, which was about creating more rare tradeable items of high value in the economy (remember, before collections were introduced the value of all of its components was essentially vendor price because they served no purpose), not creating a piece of content that everyone could complete with a bit of grinding. It's not that "this game" specifically has terrible RNG - any game that has a player-to-player trading economy has to have high rarity/expensive items as part of it. If everything could be self-farmed with only a small/medium amount of effort, the economy would be flooded with every item and there'd be no point in trading for anything.

 

There's also the fact that, even if you enjoy it, any account-bound item they've introduced with RNG-based drops (meaning they have a decent chance to drop but not guaranteed) has been almost universally reviled. If they set the number too high it's a minor irritant rather than an encouragement to do content, and if it's too low people get frustrated, especially when it gates other things.

 

I say all of this as a huge Diablo and Diablo II fan, where the loot slot machine felt very rewarding and was a big part of the fun of the game. The itemization in this game just does not fit that model at all. You can't get a drop that fundamentally changes your character build, gear, or power potential. So there's no sifting through a shower of loot to see if you rolled a wand with slightly better stats or popped that unique ring you were hoping for. Because BIS gear is so attainable (among other things) the game just can't support the kind of slot-machine boss runs that a game like Diablo does.

 

[Urud.4925]

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > @"Urud.4925" said:

> > Do we want to talk about the Merchandise Collector? The Visage of the Kan-Ur is at 6199 gold on the TP... 3 legendaries for 1 AP. A bargain!

> > The only good thing is that being this achievement the only one that I missed in the story journal, I gave up also on the following ones, like Hold onto the light. It's a thing to complete all the achievements of a category, but if you miss 1, you may miss 2 of them as well.

>

> We don't because your information is outdated. That collection no longer requires those items. It only requires 12 items to complete now.

 

Oh oh, I didn't know it! So unlocking the 3 shoulder skins is enough for the final tier now. That's maybe why I see more grothmar strike mission groups in LFG.

Thank you Khisanth!

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Urud.4925" said:

> > @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > > @"Urud.4925" said:

> > > Do we want to talk about the Merchandise Collector? The Visage of the Kan-Ur is at 6199 gold on the TP... 3 legendaries for 1 AP. A bargain!

> > > The only good thing is that being this achievement the only one that I missed in the story journal, I gave up also on the following ones, like Hold onto the light. It's a thing to complete all the achievements of a category, but if you miss 1, you may miss 2 of them as well.

> >

> > We don't because your information is outdated. That collection no longer requires those items. It only requires 12 items to complete now.

>

> Oh oh, I didn't know it! So unlocking the 3 shoulder skins is enough for the final tier now. That's maybe why I see more grothmar strike mission groups in LFG.

> Thank you Khisanth!

 

o_O

doesn't the hats drop from the strike as well?

[Linken.6345]

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > @"Urud.4925" said:

> > > @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > > > @"Urud.4925" said:

> > > > Do we want to talk about the Merchandise Collector? The Visage of the Kan-Ur is at 6199 gold on the TP... 3 legendaries for 1 AP. A bargain!

> > > > The only good thing is that being this achievement the only one that I missed in the story journal, I gave up also on the following ones, like Hold onto the light. It's a thing to complete all the achievements of a category, but if you miss 1, you may miss 2 of them as well.

> > >

> > > We don't because your information is outdated. That collection no longer requires those items. It only requires 12 items to complete now.

> >

> > Oh oh, I didn't know it! So unlocking the 3 shoulder skins is enough for the final tier now. That's maybe why I see more grothmar strike mission groups in LFG.

> > Thank you Khisanth!

>

> o_O

> doesn't the hats drop from the strike as well?

 

Nope only from the 4 key map events chest

[Daddicus.6128]

The price for both Rhendak's signet and Pendant of Arah are not just based on RNG. They're also based upon the difficulty of getting to the place where you can loot the chest.

 

Regarding RNG and the economy, it's a fallacy to think that RNG helps (or hurts) the economy. The ONLY impact on the economy of the price of these items is the 15% tax taken when they're sold on the Trading Post.

[Kunzaito.8169]

> @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> Regarding RNG and the economy, it's a fallacy to think that RNG helps (or hurts) the economy. The ONLY impact on the economy of the price of these items is the 15% tax taken when they're sold on the Trading Post.

 

RNG in a very literal sense CREATES the economy. In the context of drops, RNG is just shorthand for the chance of getting something specific. If every item in the game had a creature from which it dropped 100% of the time, that creates a massively different economy than one like this where there is a distribution of rarity. There would be no high value items at all - the TP would be a glorified vendor - unless you completely changed game mechanics (e.g. far far fewer drops, no end-usable things could drop, drastically increasing the cost, scope, and complexity of crafting, etc.)

 

Getting the chance percentages right to create a good distribution where regular play feels rewarding and there are enough rare and ultra-rare items in the game to keep players grinding or rolling the dice is pretty much the whole job of the game economists. When people complain about "RNG" they mean that they think that it either shouldn't be random, or that the rarity is too high. But randomness and rarity are completely indispensible to a healthy game economy.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > > > @"Urud.4925" said:

> > > > Do we want to talk about the Merchandise Collector? The Visage of the Kan-Ur is at 6199 gold on the TP... 3 legendaries for 1 AP. A bargain!

> > > > The only good thing is that being this achievement the only one that I missed in the story journal, I gave up also on the following ones, like Hold onto the light. It's a thing to complete all the achievements of a category, but if you miss 1, you may miss 2 of them as well.

> > >

> > > We don't because your information is outdated. That collection no longer requires those items. It only requires 12 items to complete now.

> >

> > It also seems bugged where when you get the Khan ur mask and unlock it, it auto completes the collection. Mine did at least. i still had quite a few items left to get for the achievements. Bought the helmet, and everything unlocked.

> >

> > and to be fair to the collection(the one the topic was made for), i dont enjoy buying items off the trading post. Id rather have account bound drops that are decently farmable over the trading post any day. For me there is no real "feels good man" feeling when i get things of the trading post, but the RNG in this game is so terrible that you -must- buy things of the trading post.

>

> but what is so special about a random drop? I could understand if it was a skill thing.

 

Nothing in this game. In GW1 if i wanted a Green weapon i could farm it myself. Was it RNG? yes it was, but you had a reasonable chance of obtaining one on your own through repeated attempts.(most i had to do was 5 to get the weapon.) in GW2 you can farm forever and never see the drop.

 

In fact, its far more reasonable for me to spend an extra hour or two at work each day and buy the weapon i want than it is to try and earn it in game. Its far less fun however, but if Anet wants players to play RL than try and do events so be it. I dont have infinite time to farm gold, and id rather spend that time doing the events over and over for an account bound drop with a decent drop rate than one id never see. I spent hours every day farming for a Voltaic Spear in GW1, i got multiple other drops that where worth quite a bit of money, you cant do that in this game, and it sucks.

 

Im all for rare drops and all, but the RNG in this game is obnoxiously low to the point of taking away fun from the game.

 

 

[Kunzaito.8169]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> Nothing in this game. In GW1 if i wanted a Green weapon i could farm it myself. Was it RNG? yes it was, but you had a reasonable chance of obtaining one on your own through repeated attempts.(most i had to do was 5 to get the weapon.) in GW2 you can farm forever and never see the drop.

>

> In fact, its far more reasonable for me to spend an extra hour or two at work each day and buy the weapon i want than it is to try and earn it in game. Its far less fun however, but if Anet wants players to play RL than try and do events so be it. I dont have infinite time to farm gold, and id rather spend that time doing the events over and over for an account bound drop with a decent drop rate than one id never see. I spent hours every day farming for a Voltaic Spear in GW1, i got multiple other drops that where worth quite a bit of money, you cant do that in this game, and it sucks.

>

> Im all for rare drops and all, but the RNG in this game is obnoxiously low to the point of taking away fun from the game.

 

I gotta challenge this again and say, "RNG for what?" The RNG for, say, a blue Piece of Unidentified Gear, is pretty damn high. You could farm mobs for a few minutes anywhere and have a near 100% chance of getting one. T6 mats are rarer, but if you're in the right area and you farm for awhile you'll likely get a few with little effort. If you complete almost any boss or meta you'll likely get at least one rare unid'd gear. Exotics still less frequently, but I'd guess most of us get a couple a week and barely notice them. Why? Because they drop so much they have little to no external value, even if you're only getting one a week. And so on - the "RNG" (if we're using that as shorthand for "chance to drop") for many things is very-to-relatively high. Even if you want to farm for ascended equipment (more or less a corollary to your GW1 example) that's totally doable.

 

What you're really saying is "the thing I want right now has too low of RNG," which is entirely subjective on your part (and biased). Maybe there is an argument to be made that some things should drop slightly more than they do (Invisible Boots, Khan Ur helm) but the game really does need ultra-rare items.

 

This game has a completely different economy and itemization than GW1. There's no random rolls on item stats, so there's no need to farm for specific items to achieve BIS stats. Those are easily attainable though many different avenues and give a definite result. GW1 also had a much more limited trading post, so they could make the drop rate of uniques better because of the inherent barriers of every trade being directly p2p (which is a system with many, many shortcomings itself).

 

Also, if you spend a "couple of hours every day" farming in GW2, even though it's not directly aimed at a specific drop, I guarantee you'll accumulate drops worth "quite a bit of money."

 

The whole economy is built around the trading post and the idea that anyone at any time can get real-time normalized value when they want to buy or sell anything tradeable. That creates significant tradeoffs for top-end items. The reality is there are a ton of things to do and collect that only involve you doing content; there's also just some things that are not intended for that. Again, it sounds to me like you would like more things that are RNG but with like a 5 or 10% chance of the drop, which are just not popular with most players. What they usually do in that case is make an achievement or collection where you have to do something X times; people respond much better to a defined endpoint to gated content with the economy we have.

[Urud.4925]

I think the problem is not RNG in general, but when it's tied to achievements (the topic of this thread in the end). As you said, RNG can be useful for the economy: bored people with a lot of time have something to do to gain gold, while people with less time (but willing to pay) can buy some exclusive items. But it's fine if we talk about skins, invisible boots, legendaries etc.

Putting an item required for a collection/achievement with a very low drop rate is simply mean and annoying. Some people would get it after many hours/months, some other even after few minutes, while others by simply paying cash: you can't even call it achievement any more, since it's totally RNG based.

[aspirine.6852]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > > @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > > > > @"Urud.4925" said:

> > > > > Do we want to talk about the Merchandise Collector? The Visage of the Kan-Ur is at 6199 gold on the TP... 3 legendaries for 1 AP. A bargain!

> > > > > The only good thing is that being this achievement the only one that I missed in the story journal, I gave up also on the following ones, like Hold onto the light. It's a thing to complete all the achievements of a category, but if you miss 1, you may miss 2 of them as well.

> > > >

> > > > We don't because your information is outdated. That collection no longer requires those items. It only requires 12 items to complete now.

> > >

> > > It also seems bugged where when you get the Khan ur mask and unlock it, it auto completes the collection. Mine did at least. i still had quite a few items left to get for the achievements. Bought the helmet, and everything unlocked.

> > >

> > > and to be fair to the collection(the one the topic was made for), i dont enjoy buying items off the trading post. Id rather have account bound drops that are decently farmable over the trading post any day. For me there is no real "feels good man" feeling when i get things of the trading post, but the RNG in this game is so terrible that you -must- buy things of the trading post.

> >

> > but what is so special about a random drop? I could understand if it was a skill thing.

>

> Nothing in this game. In GW1 if i wanted a Green weapon i could farm it myself. Was it RNG? yes it was, but you had a reasonable chance of obtaining one on your own through repeated attempts.(most i had to do was 5 to get the weapon.) in GW2 you can farm forever and never see the drop.

>

> In fact, its far more reasonable for me to spend an extra hour or two at work each day and buy the weapon i want than it is to try and earn it in game. Its far less fun however, but if Anet wants players to play RL than try and do events so be it. I dont have infinite time to farm gold, and id rather spend that time doing the events over and over for an account bound drop with a decent drop rate than one id never see. I spent hours every day farming for a Voltaic Spear in GW1, i got multiple other drops that where worth quite a bit of money, you cant do that in this game, and it sucks.

>

> Im all for rare drops and all, but the RNG in this game is obnoxiously low to the point of taking away fun from the game.

>

>

 

You are absolutely right. If there is one thing anet doesnt seem to get right is drops in this game.

[Daddicus.6128]

> @"Kunzaito.8169" said:

> > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > Regarding RNG and the economy, it's a fallacy to think that RNG helps (or hurts) the economy. The ONLY impact on the economy of the price of these items is the 15% tax taken when they're sold on the Trading Post.

>

> RNG in a very literal sense CREATES the economy. In the context of drops, RNG is just shorthand for the chance of getting something specific. If every item in the game had a creature from which it dropped 100% of the time, that creates a massively different economy than one like this where there is a distribution of rarity. There would be no high value items at all - the TP would be a glorified vendor - unless you completely changed game mechanics (e.g. far far fewer drops, no end-usable things could drop, drastically increasing the cost, scope, and complexity of crafting, etc.)

>

> Getting the chance percentages right to create a good distribution where regular play feels rewarding and there are enough rare and ultra-rare items in the game to keep players grinding or rolling the dice is pretty much the whole job of the game economists. When people complain about "RNG" they mean that they think that it either shouldn't be random, or that the rarity is too high. But randomness and rarity are completely indispensible to a healthy game economy.

 

What I meant was that the random nature doesn't add or subtract gold from the economy. It's a zero-sum game, except for the tax the TP collects.