Vlad Morbius.1759 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > Why is that so unbelievable to you? Obviously there is SOMETHING programmed in the game that can stop healing in Shroud. Yeah, I'm just FULL of crazy ideas about what software can do >< > > I love how you stick to your ideas of why we need things that have zero relevance to how Anet balances the game.... how is that working out for you again? Doesn't look good from here since ... forever. Oh for the...i don't have time to waste on someone who thinks they know exactly what courses through the minds of an entire department and nobody else's opinion has as much merit or value as theirs. Of course i realize it can be reverted my point was that it was obviously added because they felt it needed to be there and now 3 months later they decide to revert it which many feel would be disastrous considering the bulk of our damage comes from shroud which can no longer be healed at all. So you go ahead and keep believing you're some kind of Anet guru and they can do no wrong but you did get one thing right Anet's balancing is nothing like anyone should expect frankly because this patch is filled with non sequitur nonsense just like this change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 > @"Vlad Morbius.1759" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > Why is that so unbelievable to you? Obviously there is SOMETHING programmed in the game that can stop healing in Shroud. Yeah, I'm just FULL of crazy ideas about what software can do >< > > > > I love how you stick to your ideas of why we need things that have zero relevance to how Anet balances the game.... how is that working out for you again? Doesn't look good from here since ... forever. > > Oh for the...i don't have time to waste on someone who thinks they know exactly what courses through the minds of an entire department and nobody else's opinion has as much merit or value as theirs. Of course i realize it can be reverted my point was that it was obviously added because they felt it needed to be there and now 3 months later they decide to revert it which many feel would be disastrous considering the bulk of our damage comes from shroud which can no longer be healed at all. So you go ahead and keep believing you're some kind of Anet guru and they can do no wrong but you did get one thing right Anet's balancing is nothing like anyone should expect frankly because this patch is filled with non sequitur nonsense just like this change. WTH are you talking about? I'm not claiming to know what courses through their minds ... Again, you accuse me of trying to read minds ... but it's simply observations of the trend from hundreds of class changes and dozens of balance patches they have made and how they speak to us to get a pretty good idea of what matters to them in balancing ... just because you think ignoring that makes them wrong doesn't mean it's any less real to the fact that on Tuesday, whether you think it's need or not ... Soul Eater is highly likely to not heal in shroud. What I do know ... how Anet does balance is not what you're thinking it should be. In fact, it rarely is. Maybe I don't know much ... but I know enough to see you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuulpb.5412 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"dceptaconroy.7928" said: > > It's not so much just a surprise as it was something we liked that was the only shining light in that patch where it was introduced and now it's gone. No fuss to you, to others.. maybe a little fuss. > > I mean people liked chill damage but look how busted that was. If this trait was introduced with the function its going to have from Tuesday onward originally people would have heralded it as the best thing and its still an incredibly powerful trait. > > But again I'm not sure what people expected. Especially with Anet trying to, and slowly but surely, decreasing the gaps between elite specs and the base classes. Considering how few other changes we got its safe to assume Anet still hold their view that necros are well represented and fairly balanced. > > Chill damage was my favourite trait, I still don't get why they removed it when Necromancers have had some of the WORST Damage per Second of all professions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > Sounds to me like deathshroud 2 is getting the nerf bat as well. Sounds like "this skill isn't homing anymore" > > > Which would make it completely useless. > > > > > I think it still homes in it just works more like the focus 4 now instead of running along the ground aka scaling down walls before it reaches its target it now just flys through the air to get them > > > > That said if they made it track less efficiently in the process.... then yeah its a nerf. Right now its one of the best tracking skills in the game aside from life blast and mirror blade on mesmer. > > > > > > Yeah, I think I misread this on first sight. But I could almost bet, that something like "slower missle speed" is going to come as well. The projectile was already pretty slow so i dont think it can get much slower to be honest. If it did it would literally take half its cooldown to hit some one at max range. I imagine its just going to be the focus 4 attack skinned over the shroud 2 skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 > @"Anchoku.8142" said: > Dark Path's Dark Pursuit - will it count as a finisher? I doubt it but want it. doubt it while it probably should have a secondary function other than just a blank port to your target that you hit with the previous skill i doubt its going to based on the current patch notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 > @"Kuulpb.5412" said: > Chill damage was my favourite trait, I still don't get why they removed it when Necromancers have had some of the WORST Damage per Second of all professions. There is 2 reasons: - The first reason is that at that moment the necromancer had longer chill and it gave to much condi burst to some condi build. This led to a lot of "nerf necro condi cancer" threads in the PvP subforum. - The second reason is the way chill work as a condition. Chill is a condition that stack in duration to a maximum of 5 stacks. This mean that technically only 1 chill affect the target at a time and the owner of this "chill" can be reset at any moment creating mechanism "conflict" instead of "synergy" in group fights. In short the trait fonctionnality was effectively a burden to the efficiency of the build as soon as you were playing with other players using the same trait. To prevent these 2 point ANet butchered necromancer's chill duration and replaced the chill damage by a proc of bleed. Replacing the chill damage by a bleed proc wasn't a bad thing at all, especially since this game is a mmorpg where you are supposed to take on challenges with other players not be a solo hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dceptaconroy.7928 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 > @"Vlad Morbius.1759" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said:> Hey, You don't like my speculation. usually the simplest answer is the correct one. It simply seems to me that Anet forgot to turn it off. I know you like to have your conspiracy theory engine on overdrive ... fill your boots. It's not really valuable discussion as to how we got here, other than to understand that the healing we were getting in Shroud with Soul Eater was absolutely ridiculous. > > Turn it off like it's a switch they left on? Now who sounds a little conspiratorial? We are talking about putting the notes into the game and explaining the rational for the change, testing it and that sounds accidental? Would you like me to link the patch notes from that particular day because they are easy to find so here you go; https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74356/game-update-notes-april-23-2019#latest > This was clearly added out of purpose, so your opinion is no more valid then mine. The healing is necessary because the changes they made forced us into shroud, and they knew that which is why it was added. To fix it they could revert that, or lower the healing value, flat out removing it will cripple the Reaper in many game play situations period and i'm not the only one who thinks so! > > Good points Vlad, and Nimons case regarding durability is spot on as its thematically linked to our movie monster they spruked. "Jason", I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuulpb.5412 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"Kuulpb.5412" said: > > Chill damage was my favourite trait, I still don't get why they removed it when Necromancers have had some of the WORST Damage per Second of all professions. > > There is 2 reasons: > - The first reason is that at that moment the necromancer had longer chill and it gave to much condi burst to some condi build. This led to a lot of "nerf necro condi cancer" threads in the PvP subforum. > - The second reason is the way chill work as a condition. Chill is a condition that stack in duration to a maximum of 5 stacks. This mean that technically only 1 chill affect the target at a time and the owner of this "chill" can be reset at any moment creating mechanism "conflict" instead of "synergy" in group fights. In short the trait fonctionnality was effectively a burden to the efficiency of the build as soon as you were playing with other players using the same trait. > > To prevent these 2 point ANet butchered necromancer's chill duration and replaced the chill damage by a proc of bleed. Replacing the chill damage by a bleed proc wasn't a bad thing at all, especially since this game is a mmorpg where you are supposed to take on challenges with other players not be a solo hero. then why not make it so necromancers applied a unique debuff that did damage when they applied chill and lasted as long as chill applies does, stacking, so if you applied a 5s chill and someone else applied a 5s chill, the chill would be 10s but you would only have 5s of that debuff, but if you did 3 instances of 5s of chill both would be 15s, as multiple necromancers can use signet of vampirism on the same target etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 > @"Kuulpb.5412" said: > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > @"Kuulpb.5412" said: > > > Chill damage was my favourite trait, I still don't get why they removed it when Necromancers have had some of the WORST Damage per Second of all professions. > > > > There is 2 reasons: > > - The first reason is that at that moment the necromancer had longer chill and it gave to much condi burst to some condi build. This led to a lot of "nerf necro condi cancer" threads in the PvP subforum. > > - The second reason is the way chill work as a condition. Chill is a condition that stack in duration to a maximum of 5 stacks. This mean that technically only 1 chill affect the target at a time and the owner of this "chill" can be reset at any moment creating mechanism "conflict" instead of "synergy" in group fights. In short the trait fonctionnality was effectively a burden to the efficiency of the build as soon as you were playing with other players using the same trait. > > > > To prevent these 2 point ANet butchered necromancer's chill duration and replaced the chill damage by a proc of bleed. Replacing the chill damage by a bleed proc wasn't a bad thing at all, especially since this game is a mmorpg where you are supposed to take on challenges with other players not be a solo hero. > > then why not make it so necromancers applied a unique debuff that did damage when they applied chill and lasted as long as chill applies does, stacking, so if you applied a 5s chill and someone else applied a 5s chill, the chill would be 10s but you would only have 5s of that debuff, but if you did 3 instances of 5s of chill both would be 15s, as multiple necromancers can use signet of vampirism on the same target etc. Because proc'ing bleed was easier to introduce as a hotfix than a "new condition" that would have to work alongside mechanism such as cleanse, condition conversion and resistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuulpb.5412 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"Kuulpb.5412" said: > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > @"Kuulpb.5412" said: > > > > Chill damage was my favourite trait, I still don't get why they removed it when Necromancers have had some of the WORST Damage per Second of all professions. > > > > > > There is 2 reasons: > > > - The first reason is that at that moment the necromancer had longer chill and it gave to much condi burst to some condi build. This led to a lot of "nerf necro condi cancer" threads in the PvP subforum. > > > - The second reason is the way chill work as a condition. Chill is a condition that stack in duration to a maximum of 5 stacks. This mean that technically only 1 chill affect the target at a time and the owner of this "chill" can be reset at any moment creating mechanism "conflict" instead of "synergy" in group fights. In short the trait fonctionnality was effectively a burden to the efficiency of the build as soon as you were playing with other players using the same trait. > > > > > > To prevent these 2 point ANet butchered necromancer's chill duration and replaced the chill damage by a proc of bleed. Replacing the chill damage by a bleed proc wasn't a bad thing at all, especially since this game is a mmorpg where you are supposed to take on challenges with other players not be a solo hero. > > > > then why not make it so necromancers applied a unique debuff that did damage when they applied chill and lasted as long as chill applies does, stacking, so if you applied a 5s chill and someone else applied a 5s chill, the chill would be 10s but you would only have 5s of that debuff, but if you did 3 instances of 5s of chill both would be 15s, as multiple necromancers can use signet of vampirism on the same target etc. > > Because proc'ing bleed was easier to introduce as a hotfix than a "new condition" that would have to work alongside mechanism such as cleanse, condition conversion and resistance. Perhaps, However It could have been the one time where something counters resistance, like boon conversion is already really sparse, so Ignoring resistance for one specific grandmaster might have been good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublimatio.6981 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 choosing between core necro and reaper is still a choice between "absolutely useless" and "decent". there are no tradeoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agrippa Oculus.3726 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > I have literally have only seen obtena justify or stick up for every class nerf except for his main which I'm guessing from his posts in warrior forum is warrior. Gues it's ok for him to not like the direction anet takes his class lol. > > You simply haven't been around long enough ... The fact is that regardless of the game or the devs, I have YET to see a situation where a broken tool will be allowed to persist to maintain some sense of balance. That's only even more true in the case of a bug or a forgotten implementation, exactly what this appears to be. If you think Anet was actually to allow this or intended for it to work that way, then you really aren't very aware of how this game works. I actually agree with you that the healing on Soul Eater was out of line. But c'mon: you have YET to see "a situation where a broken tool will be allowed to persist"???... In this (PvE end-)game there are some concepts/tools STILL utterly broken, let me name just a few of them: Quickness, Alacrity, Banners, Spirits, Signet of Inspiration, etc. ... And the funny thing, ANet kinda acknowledged it even, cause they've changed it numerous times already and STILL haven't fixed it!!! But hey I understand why they slipped your attention, cause those are all tools that the Necro doesn't really have access to (or at least extremely selfishly and limited), so who cares, right??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > I have literally have only seen obtena justify or stick up for every class nerf except for his main which I'm guessing from his posts in warrior forum is warrior. Gues it's ok for him to not like the direction anet takes his class lol. > > > > You simply haven't been around long enough ... The fact is that regardless of the game or the devs, I have YET to see a situation where a broken tool will be allowed to persist to maintain some sense of balance. That's only even more true in the case of a bug or a forgotten implementation, exactly what this appears to be. If you think Anet was actually to allow this or intended for it to work that way, then you really aren't very aware of how this game works. > > I actually agree with you that the healing on Soul Eater was out of line. But c'mon: you have YET to see "a situation where a broken tool will be allowed to persist"???... In this (PvE end-)game there are some concepts/tools STILL utterly broken, let me name just a few of them: Quickness, Alacrity, Banners, Spirits, Signet of Inspiration, etc. ... And the funny thing, ANet kinda acknowledged it even, cause they've changed it numerous times already and STILL haven't fixed it!!! > But hey I understand why they slipped your attention, cause those are all tools that the Necro doesn't really have access to (or at least extremely selfishly and limited), so who cares, right??? When I say persist, what I mean is that Anet keeps them in as how they work. And no, I'm being honest. If it's a bug or not intended, Anet will fix it. Same with any other devs in other games as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahmia.2193 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 > @"Kuulpb.5412" said: > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > @"Kuulpb.5412" said: > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > @"Kuulpb.5412" said: > > > > > Chill damage was my favourite trait, I still don't get why they removed it when Necromancers have had some of the WORST Damage per Second of all professions. > > > > > > > > There is 2 reasons: > > > > - The first reason is that at that moment the necromancer had longer chill and it gave to much condi burst to some condi build. This led to a lot of "nerf necro condi cancer" threads in the PvP subforum. > > > > - The second reason is the way chill work as a condition. Chill is a condition that stack in duration to a maximum of 5 stacks. This mean that technically only 1 chill affect the target at a time and the owner of this "chill" can be reset at any moment creating mechanism "conflict" instead of "synergy" in group fights. In short the trait fonctionnality was effectively a burden to the efficiency of the build as soon as you were playing with other players using the same trait. > > > > > > > > To prevent these 2 point ANet butchered necromancer's chill duration and replaced the chill damage by a proc of bleed. Replacing the chill damage by a bleed proc wasn't a bad thing at all, especially since this game is a mmorpg where you are supposed to take on challenges with other players not be a solo hero. > > > > > > then why not make it so necromancers applied a unique debuff that did damage when they applied chill and lasted as long as chill applies does, stacking, so if you applied a 5s chill and someone else applied a 5s chill, the chill would be 10s but you would only have 5s of that debuff, but if you did 3 instances of 5s of chill both would be 15s, as multiple necromancers can use signet of vampirism on the same target etc. > > > > Because proc'ing bleed was easier to introduce as a hotfix than a "new condition" that would have to work alongside mechanism such as cleanse, condition conversion and resistance. > > Perhaps, However It could have been the one time where something counters resistance, like boon conversion is already really sparse, so Ignoring resistance for one specific grandmaster might have been good. From what I remember, the balance came back when anet didn't really split between modes. Deathly Chill was very powerful in pvp but utterly useless in pve or situations that involved more than 1 reaper with the trait, since it didn't stack with itself. Their fix was intended to buff the trait in pve (where it was weak) and nerf it in pvp (where it was strong). As someone that only pve'd back then, I saw it as a buff. But I guess you were on the other side of that field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" Let's say soul eater was broken (Which it isn't, only in your pve raids where you're able to stack obscene amounts of damage) Then at least give us SOMETHING ELSE in exchange for the removal of the heal. Then at least make a SPLIT change between pve and pvp. Then at least REVERT some of the terrible changes made in the previous patch. There's plenty of options for anet to not screw over the necro community again for the 100th time. Soul Eater change was the only positive thing in the last patch, out of a trough of what are essentially nerfs. Now they take away soul eater's main positive mechanic away and what's left is necromancer in a spot so bad that it's just basically a deadeye meme build that can one shot some nub in the middle of a teamfight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dceptaconroy.7928 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 Split 100%. Some of us still PVP. Who here thinks its OP in PVP?? Theres not just one mode here that gets affected. But Anet know what they're doing without a Split right, they'll compensate, wh5 :/. Give us SE sustain minus warhorn sustain. Next patch - minus SE sustain. Were we too durable at this stage that we deserve a backtrack of this amount. C'mon. Are we too durable? Is that 2nd health bar/defense, which hold on - has to be earned too much? Are we being slowly throttled into Pof class only territory here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuulpb.5412 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 > @"Lahmia.2193" said: > > @"Kuulpb.5412" said: > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > @"Kuulpb.5412" said: > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > @"Kuulpb.5412" said: > > > > > > Chill damage was my favourite trait, I still don't get why they removed it when Necromancers have had some of the WORST Damage per Second of all professions. > > > > > > > > > > There is 2 reasons: > > > > > - The first reason is that at that moment the necromancer had longer chill and it gave to much condi burst to some condi build. This led to a lot of "nerf necro condi cancer" threads in the PvP subforum. > > > > > - The second reason is the way chill work as a condition. Chill is a condition that stack in duration to a maximum of 5 stacks. This mean that technically only 1 chill affect the target at a time and the owner of this "chill" can be reset at any moment creating mechanism "conflict" instead of "synergy" in group fights. In short the trait fonctionnality was effectively a burden to the efficiency of the build as soon as you were playing with other players using the same trait. > > > > > > > > > > To prevent these 2 point ANet butchered necromancer's chill duration and replaced the chill damage by a proc of bleed. Replacing the chill damage by a bleed proc wasn't a bad thing at all, especially since this game is a mmorpg where you are supposed to take on challenges with other players not be a solo hero. > > > > > > > > then why not make it so necromancers applied a unique debuff that did damage when they applied chill and lasted as long as chill applies does, stacking, so if you applied a 5s chill and someone else applied a 5s chill, the chill would be 10s but you would only have 5s of that debuff, but if you did 3 instances of 5s of chill both would be 15s, as multiple necromancers can use signet of vampirism on the same target etc. > > > > > > Because proc'ing bleed was easier to introduce as a hotfix than a "new condition" that would have to work alongside mechanism such as cleanse, condition conversion and resistance. > > > > Perhaps, However It could have been the one time where something counters resistance, like boon conversion is already really sparse, so Ignoring resistance for one specific grandmaster might have been good. > > From what I remember, the balance came back when anet didn't really split between modes. Deathly Chill was very powerful in pvp but utterly useless in pve or situations that involved more than 1 reaper with the trait, since it didn't stack with itself. Their fix was intended to buff the trait in pve (where it was weak) and nerf it in pvp (where it was strong). As someone that only pve'd back then, I saw it as a buff. But I guess you were on the other side of that field. Surprisingly, No, I am a PvE exclusive player (hate pvp and wvw and avoid it unless one of my friends desperately wants me to), I LOVES It in PvE as I could have a carrion necro who was tanky and did good damage, obviously not absurd damage, but I absolutwly LOVED chill doing damage, as I felt like an actual reaper, then they removed it, and with it all my hope that GW2 would ever fix necromancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahmia.2193 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 > @"Kuulpb.5412" said: > > @"Lahmia.2193" said: > > > @"Kuulpb.5412" said: > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > @"Kuulpb.5412" said: > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > @"Kuulpb.5412" said: > > > > > > > Chill damage was my favourite trait, I still don't get why they removed it when Necromancers have had some of the WORST Damage per Second of all professions. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is 2 reasons: > > > > > > - The first reason is that at that moment the necromancer had longer chill and it gave to much condi burst to some condi build. This led to a lot of "nerf necro condi cancer" threads in the PvP subforum. > > > > > > - The second reason is the way chill work as a condition. Chill is a condition that stack in duration to a maximum of 5 stacks. This mean that technically only 1 chill affect the target at a time and the owner of this "chill" can be reset at any moment creating mechanism "conflict" instead of "synergy" in group fights. In short the trait fonctionnality was effectively a burden to the efficiency of the build as soon as you were playing with other players using the same trait. > > > > > > > > > > > > To prevent these 2 point ANet butchered necromancer's chill duration and replaced the chill damage by a proc of bleed. Replacing the chill damage by a bleed proc wasn't a bad thing at all, especially since this game is a mmorpg where you are supposed to take on challenges with other players not be a solo hero. > > > > > > > > > > then why not make it so necromancers applied a unique debuff that did damage when they applied chill and lasted as long as chill applies does, stacking, so if you applied a 5s chill and someone else applied a 5s chill, the chill would be 10s but you would only have 5s of that debuff, but if you did 3 instances of 5s of chill both would be 15s, as multiple necromancers can use signet of vampirism on the same target etc. > > > > > > > > Because proc'ing bleed was easier to introduce as a hotfix than a "new condition" that would have to work alongside mechanism such as cleanse, condition conversion and resistance. > > > > > > Perhaps, However It could have been the one time where something counters resistance, like boon conversion is already really sparse, so Ignoring resistance for one specific grandmaster might have been good. > > > > From what I remember, the balance came back when anet didn't really split between modes. Deathly Chill was very powerful in pvp but utterly useless in pve or situations that involved more than 1 reaper with the trait, since it didn't stack with itself. Their fix was intended to buff the trait in pve (where it was weak) and nerf it in pvp (where it was strong). As someone that only pve'd back then, I saw it as a buff. But I guess you were on the other side of that field. > > Surprisingly, No, I am a PvE exclusive player (hate pvp and wvw and avoid it unless one of my friends desperately wants me to), I LOVES It in PvE as I could have a carrion necro who was tanky and did good damage, obviously not absurd damage, but I absolutwly LOVED chill doing damage, as I felt like an actual reaper, then they removed it, and with it all my hope that GW2 would ever fix necromancer. Getting it constantly overridden was an absolute pain though. I guess they could have made it stack with itself instead, but that would have made it worse in pvp (where it was apparently broken as hell). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuulpb.5412 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 > @"Lahmia.2193" said: > > @"Kuulpb.5412" said: > > > @"Lahmia.2193" said: > > > > @"Kuulpb.5412" said: > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > @"Kuulpb.5412" said: > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kuulpb.5412" said: > > > > > > > > Chill damage was my favourite trait, I still don't get why they removed it when Necromancers have had some of the WORST Damage per Second of all professions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is 2 reasons: > > > > > > > - The first reason is that at that moment the necromancer had longer chill and it gave to much condi burst to some condi build. This led to a lot of "nerf necro condi cancer" threads in the PvP subforum. > > > > > > > - The second reason is the way chill work as a condition. Chill is a condition that stack in duration to a maximum of 5 stacks. This mean that technically only 1 chill affect the target at a time and the owner of this "chill" can be reset at any moment creating mechanism "conflict" instead of "synergy" in group fights. In short the trait fonctionnality was effectively a burden to the efficiency of the build as soon as you were playing with other players using the same trait. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To prevent these 2 point ANet butchered necromancer's chill duration and replaced the chill damage by a proc of bleed. Replacing the chill damage by a bleed proc wasn't a bad thing at all, especially since this game is a mmorpg where you are supposed to take on challenges with other players not be a solo hero. > > > > > > > > > > > > then why not make it so necromancers applied a unique debuff that did damage when they applied chill and lasted as long as chill applies does, stacking, so if you applied a 5s chill and someone else applied a 5s chill, the chill would be 10s but you would only have 5s of that debuff, but if you did 3 instances of 5s of chill both would be 15s, as multiple necromancers can use signet of vampirism on the same target etc. > > > > > > > > > > Because proc'ing bleed was easier to introduce as a hotfix than a "new condition" that would have to work alongside mechanism such as cleanse, condition conversion and resistance. > > > > > > > > Perhaps, However It could have been the one time where something counters resistance, like boon conversion is already really sparse, so Ignoring resistance for one specific grandmaster might have been good. > > > > > > From what I remember, the balance came back when anet didn't really split between modes. Deathly Chill was very powerful in pvp but utterly useless in pve or situations that involved more than 1 reaper with the trait, since it didn't stack with itself. Their fix was intended to buff the trait in pve (where it was weak) and nerf it in pvp (where it was strong). As someone that only pve'd back then, I saw it as a buff. But I guess you were on the other side of that field. > > > > Surprisingly, No, I am a PvE exclusive player (hate pvp and wvw and avoid it unless one of my friends desperately wants me to), I LOVES It in PvE as I could have a carrion necro who was tanky and did good damage, obviously not absurd damage, but I absolutwly LOVED chill doing damage, as I felt like an actual reaper, then they removed it, and with it all my hope that GW2 would ever fix necromancer. > > Getting it constantly overridden was an absolute pain though. I guess they could have made it stack with itself instead, but that would have made it worse in pvp (where it was apparently broken as hell). As a counter argument, chill counts as a movement hindering condition, there are a load of traits that remove these and as reapers could not apply chill non stop for 1 minute (i believe you can get high duration but not from one tick every half second) you could remove it. Though I may be misremembering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahmia.2193 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 > @"Kuulpb.5412" said: > > @"Lahmia.2193" said: > > > @"Kuulpb.5412" said: > > > > @"Lahmia.2193" said: > > > > > @"Kuulpb.5412" said: > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > @"Kuulpb.5412" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kuulpb.5412" said: > > > > > > > > > Chill damage was my favourite trait, I still don't get why they removed it when Necromancers have had some of the WORST Damage per Second of all professions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is 2 reasons: > > > > > > > > - The first reason is that at that moment the necromancer had longer chill and it gave to much condi burst to some condi build. This led to a lot of "nerf necro condi cancer" threads in the PvP subforum. > > > > > > > > - The second reason is the way chill work as a condition. Chill is a condition that stack in duration to a maximum of 5 stacks. This mean that technically only 1 chill affect the target at a time and the owner of this "chill" can be reset at any moment creating mechanism "conflict" instead of "synergy" in group fights. In short the trait fonctionnality was effectively a burden to the efficiency of the build as soon as you were playing with other players using the same trait. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To prevent these 2 point ANet butchered necromancer's chill duration and replaced the chill damage by a proc of bleed. Replacing the chill damage by a bleed proc wasn't a bad thing at all, especially since this game is a mmorpg where you are supposed to take on challenges with other players not be a solo hero. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > then why not make it so necromancers applied a unique debuff that did damage when they applied chill and lasted as long as chill applies does, stacking, so if you applied a 5s chill and someone else applied a 5s chill, the chill would be 10s but you would only have 5s of that debuff, but if you did 3 instances of 5s of chill both would be 15s, as multiple necromancers can use signet of vampirism on the same target etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > Because proc'ing bleed was easier to introduce as a hotfix than a "new condition" that would have to work alongside mechanism such as cleanse, condition conversion and resistance. > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps, However It could have been the one time where something counters resistance, like boon conversion is already really sparse, so Ignoring resistance for one specific grandmaster might have been good. > > > > > > > > From what I remember, the balance came back when anet didn't really split between modes. Deathly Chill was very powerful in pvp but utterly useless in pve or situations that involved more than 1 reaper with the trait, since it didn't stack with itself. Their fix was intended to buff the trait in pve (where it was weak) and nerf it in pvp (where it was strong). As someone that only pve'd back then, I saw it as a buff. But I guess you were on the other side of that field. > > > > > > Surprisingly, No, I am a PvE exclusive player (hate pvp and wvw and avoid it unless one of my friends desperately wants me to), I LOVES It in PvE as I could have a carrion necro who was tanky and did good damage, obviously not absurd damage, but I absolutwly LOVED chill doing damage, as I felt like an actual reaper, then they removed it, and with it all my hope that GW2 would ever fix necromancer. > > > > Getting it constantly overridden was an absolute pain though. I guess they could have made it stack with itself instead, but that would have made it worse in pvp (where it was apparently broken as hell). > > As a counter argument, chill counts as a movement hindering condition, there are a load of traits that remove these and as reapers could not apply chill non stop for 1 minute (i believe you can get high duration but not from one tick every half second) you could remove it. Though I may be misremembering. The amount of applications of chill a reaper could apply generally outweighed the amount a single player could remove though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 > @"Lahmia.2193" said: > Getting it constantly overridden was an absolute pain though. I guess they could have made it stack with itself instead, but that would have made it worse in pvp (where it was apparently broken as hell). Mercenary amulet was broken (several broken hybrid builds used it, e.g. mace berserker), not chill dealing damage. They overnerfed condi reaper when they removed the amulet, lowered chill duration, lowered "rise!" damage reduction and increased its cooldown and nerfed deathly chill. > @"Lahmia.2193" said: > The amount of applications of chill a reaper could apply generally outweighed the amount a single player could remove though. Which is irrelevant because you want to melee a reaper after the initial shroud kiting via a leap or port. It's enough to cleanse one single chill when the reaper enters shroud. After that you stay at close range anyway and the reaper can not disengage from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draxynnic.3719 Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 > @"Hesacon.8735" said: > The cooldowns are nice, but since reaper got buffed death shroud can't keep up in damage and scourge can use shroud skills AND weapon skills at the same time. When reaper launched the reaper shroud damage was unimpressive and similar to death shroud, but it's way ahead of death shroud at the moment with no drawback except it has to be melee (which is seldom an issue). Reaper shroud decays noticeable faster than core shroud now, so there is that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeftheWicked.3076 Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > Reaper shroud decays noticeable faster than core shroud now, so there is that. Cause that evens out the fact RS has acess to stability, 2 combo finishers, short cooldown and reliable gap closer, massive burst, strong cc and auto chain that outdamages Death Shroud any day while cleaving... Not to mention the awesome traits (Reaper's Onslaught, Blighter's Boon) and synergies with old ones (dhuumfire, transfusion!). That's like saying "Hey maybe this profession is shit compare to others, but at least it has 20% more base hp!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 Patch notes in a nutshell https://www.bilder-upload.eu/bild-ec1738-1563184048.jpg.html Btw. How can I post this link, without showing the link but showing the picture? So people don't have to click the link? Tried this one but didn't work: Also putting the URL in the image URL option doesn't show any picture... :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/853/guide-how-to-upload-post-your-own-images-on-these-forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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