Does anyone feel the same?

Thornwolf.9721 · July 27, 2019

> @"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:

> > @"Zeike.7469" said:

> > > @"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:

> >

> > > >Anet have been very cut off from the community since the recent lay offs.

> > >

> > > Oh really? Because the information about working on legendary runes/sigils, build templates and some other things they mentioned came after the layoffs. They did what any company would do in such a situation, namely release a statement about the current situation and plans for the future, to ease any concerns people would understandably have. And it was all posted right here on the Forum too.

> > >

> > > Besides, is the concept of summer holidays such a rare one that most people haven't heard of it? You won't hear much from them at this point, in this transitional period between S4 and S5. But in a month it will be GW2's 7th anniversary, so you can bet you'll hear from them then. The summer festivals will be done by then as well and with no other annual releases until Halloween I expect at the least to hear from ANet about S5, if they don't just launch episode 1 around that time.

> > >

> > > These knee-jerk emotional reactions (worry, after all, is an emotion) really don't make any sense if you take the bigger picture into account, and the fact that new releases are always a time-consuming factor with a MMO game.

> >

> > It did come after the lay off, I've not disputed that. Nor have I said they were silent, their interactions with the community is what I was referring to. I've worded it carefully. I've also stated this in other posts. They've said they're doing something, which is great. If you read many posts about the sigils etc theres a lot of people offering criticism about it, some constructively others sadly not so.. but none the less there hasn't been a discussion, it's been thrown into the mix and coming out on the 30th with little time for things to be fedback to Anet for them to change, i.e. they don't plan to. Some are valid concerns, this particular issue isn't something I'm interested in.

> >

> > Anet today released an other statement today about the next chapter, which completely came as unexpected to me. I was expecting news at the end of the month. Which we're getting a 45 minute stream to go over it. Thats what I'm looking forward to and excited for, not blanket lines detailing what we're getting with little information. This is what I'm referring to when I say they've been cut off from the community. It feels they have been limiting their interactions with the community is all.

> >

> > As for the lay offs, I have never said I disagreed with their decision, and that seems to be what you're referring to. These things happen all the time, I work in a company where these lay offs are happening right now. Please do not assume I'm criticizing them for the lay offs. I've nothing but for praise for Anet for the world they've built and in all my posts I've never slandered them.

>

> Don't worry. I didn't interpret you criticizing them for the lay offs. If it sounded like that, I'm sorry. And I also didn't expect a presentation of the upcoming Living World right now. On the other hand it's been a little over 2 months since the S4 finale, so it is about the right time for ANet to start talking about it. They didn't even let the release of a full expansion slow down their release schedule, so I don't see why it should suddenly be delayed now. There's nothing at this moment to suggest it will take (considerably) longer this time, except maybe the summer holidays. And I'm hoping we can all agree that ANet employees have the right to go on vacation or take a break as well. ;)

>

> But if there's a certain tone in my post, it's because I've been reading so many posts from people lamenting the lack of communication from devs, some even going so far as to claim we're in a content drought. All I can say is that it seems to me these people weren't around 4 years ago, when the real content drought his GW2. The one before and after HoT is what I'm referring to. When it comes to adding content, those were the darkest days of GW2. And it hasn't even been remotely like that since then. In fact, ANet have hardly done anything different since the lay offs compared to before. I guess yours was the post that finally triggered a response from me. ;)

>

> I guess I just have a different approach to game development of MMO's. First of all, being 42 I'm from a different generation of gamers. I mean, sure it would be great if developers talked to gamers and took feedback before implementing updates. But I hardly feel it is a requisite, no matter how many people seem to demand it. It never used to be this way before and that has always been fine. And ANet doesn't do that either. They release stuff, they let us know a little in advance what's coming, but any feedback they'll take to maybe change their updates is from the actual use of it in game, not the concept they are working on before implementation. They've always done it this way. The fact that other game studios may do it differently doesn't imply ANet is doing it wrong. I'm also patient, which is an absolute requisite when it comes to playing MMO's. Development takes time. It will be months between releases, for any MMO out there. GW2 certainly doesn't have a worse release schedule than most MMO's out there. Could the releases be bigger? Maybe, and I wish they would be. But after playing this game since launch I know ANet's habits and quirks and don't expect that to change.

Without a change of direction the game will be doomed, the current direction has proven to be less than favored within the community and playerbase. Surely you can see that? If A-net truly wants to turn this around they need to do something and bring something new, fresh and otherwise well made to the game... we can't have another PoF fiasco where we are divided. A small fraction? Sure. But raids won't tide or stem the bleeding, nor will fractals, living world or even anything outside of an expansion which would draw attention.

We are the least popular mmo on Twitch, we aren't talked about by anyone note-worthy really anymore. Few people know about guild wars anymore and final fantasy and elder scrolls online are taking the spotlight. Paired with Camelot unchained, Crowfall and ashes of creation coming soon in the coming years the competition will only get steeper as time goes on. They either wish to compete or they wish to recede and fade; That is how it works and life is all about survival of the fittest when it comes to entertainment and games. A-net must do something ~ Or risk further decline which would not be in the companies or the games best interest.

Zeike.7469 · July 27, 2019

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> Without a change of direction the game will be doomed, the current direction has proven to be less than favored within the community and playerbase. Surely you can see that? If A-net truly wants to turn this around they need to do something and bring something new, fresh and otherwise well made to the game... we can't have another PoF fiasco where we are divided. A small fraction? Sure. But raids won't tide or stem the bleeding, nor will fractals, living world or even anything outside of an expansion which would draw attention.

>

> We are the least popular mmo on Twitch, we aren't talked about by anyone note-worthy really anymore. Few people know about guild wars anymore and final fantasy and elder scrolls online are taking the spotlight. Paired with Camelot unchained, Crowfall and ashes of creation coming soon in the coming years the competition will only get steeper as time goes on. They either wish to compete or they wish to recede and fade; That is how it works and life is all about survival of the fittest when it comes to entertainment and games. A-net must do something ~ Or risk further decline which would not be in the companies or the games best interest.

No doubt direction is incredibly important. I had more on this but didn't make much sense, but I agree Direction is important.

Tukaram.8256 · July 27, 2019

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> I suppose I'm the odd duck; I feel a new Festival is 'proper content', and another coming very soon.

Me too. There are almost too many festivals ha ha Ok... you can never have too many. But we just finished one and a new one starts like next week.

As for the sky is falling... yeah, this game has been dying since before it was released - if forums are to be believed (they are not to be believed). :)

Omernon.9762 · July 27, 2019

Leaving? No! Every day I’m recruiting 3-5 new players to the guild and helping them as much as I can.

WvW population did drop a bit however, mainly because it’s holidays and there are less experienced commanders online, which presence is the prime reason for an active WvW server.

August 30th we will get huge announcement that will bring back many veteran players as well :)

yann.1946 · July 27, 2019

> @"serialkicker.5274" said:

> > @"yann.1946" said:

>

> > The problem is that what we should do to retain players is not that obvious.

> >

> > And they have been doing this using boss rush etc.

>

> Seems fairly simple to me. More content that is accessible and interesting to majority of players, more repeatable content and less spending resources for something with a good chance that we'll do once or twice and never again.

>

As a point of disagreement, its not necessarily the content that is accessible and interesting to majority of players that keeps the most people.

As an example (these are numbers pulled out of my ass to demonstrate a point so bear with them for a sec)

presume their are 100 people playing the game, now presume that their is lots of content for 95 of these people and almost none for the 5

if they make content for the 95 they might keep the 95 and lose the 5 so endtotal is 95 people playing

if they make content for the 5 they might keep the 5 and lose 2-3 people from the 95 because their still is so much content for the 95 left so endtotal is 97-98 people playing

> In my opinion, raids were a mistake. Minority plays them and some of that minority might even just log in for raids and nothing else and often those people don't support the game with money. If they really insisted in raids, they should make them more accessible or rather more appealing, if you prefer, to wider audience. Slapping timer on bosses is one way to "force" meta. All casual guild I've been in (quite plenty) have meta build requirement when it comes to raids. If boss is complex but not complicated, fun mechanics, then that should be enough for enjoyable content. Super hard BS boss doesn't equal a good boss. For those hardcore players that want to push for records and erasing content in seconds, they could add a difficulty mode with timer on it, maybe better rewards and perhaps an achievement for killing a boss with timer.

>

Their are probably also a lot of raiders who do openworld-wvw-pvp and who got hooked on the game using raids and now playing different gamemodes.

Without timers the meta would still exist and the bosses would be almost equally hard

> Dungeons should be a thing. Like updated and new one kinda thing. They are accessible by everyone, no special requirements to join (of course not counting player made requirements, since those will apply to every instanced content and you can also make group to make you own rules), no limiting mechanics like agony resistance, can take any class you want, any time, easy to form group for and organize etc. Even one dungeon per LS season and let's say 3 new per xpac would make a big change and more people would enjoy new content.

>

i can't really speak out on these

> I know they said they are not going to do new map each episode now, but still need to mention it, since we are talking "bad decisions" or "mistakes (imo). Obviously a lot of resources are needed to make a new map. Entire new landscape that you have to populate with npcs, bunch of events, dialogue, various activities, collections and of course if you don't want it dead in a week, also needs decent meta event. That's a lot of time and resources. Therefore when you do a new map, you do it properly, like Dragonfall. Good meta, tons of events, good rewards, promotes lot of ways of traveling but doesn't force you into single one. You can choose if you'll take mushroom, bunny or jackal to go up. Plenty of space for griffon, enough updrafts etc.

>

So they are doing a good job then?

> Living story so far is not convincing me to be worth pursuing further for devs. Yes, season 5 might be different according to what they said, but why did we need 5 season to come to that (if we will, we'll see about that). So far, to me, it doesn't seem like living story brought any substantial content that would really improve game, make it fresh and gave you a reason to play more than those few days after episode drops. Expansion would have bigger impact. Both expansions brought some big features that we now use in every map and is part of our every day play. Elite specs, mounts and gliding added a lot of "replayability" and value for the money and resources spent. What did LS bring? Two mounts? By far not the same effect as when we first got mounts, since they are more for the collection than really needed to play the game. I haven't bothered getting beetle or Skyscale and I don't feel like I miss a thing. While if I had no mounts, I'd feel like I'm missing big part of the game. Obviously raptor and griffon can cover most of the traveling needs for you. Beetle and Skyscale are just for fun and perhaps a bit of convenience in some parts.

> So, expansion would make bigger, more lasting changes, would hype up more people, even those who might be on a break for long time now and would give Anet money.

>

I agree that expacs would increase the population but that has very little to do with retention, more with a pop injection.

> Gem store. I fully support gem store, of course. They need to earn money. But when you put nearly all skins up there and barely anything in game, that's a problem. People have nothing to work for. They finished episode in 3 days, what now. Content is so sparse, people are hoarding money. There is not much else to do but farm. So people have money and they can straight up buy those skins from gem store and how is that any good? Anet doesn't get any money and player gets a skin immediately, instead of playing the game to earn it. Yeah, ok, they are playing the game when they are farming gold, but that's different. They can farm strictly fractals with their friends non stop or raids, or whatever hot spot atm. If you would put skins in game, you could choose how they are obtained and give players reason to revisit old places or previous maps. Like with Skyscale that makes you go back to all LS4 maps. This makes those maps not so useless anymore and gives them another purpose and repopulates the maps. It's a good feeling when map is not "stuck in the past". A healthy balance between new stuff in gemstore and new stuff in game would be needed.

The question then becomes what is a healthy balance?

maddoctor.2738 · July 27, 2019

> @"serialkicker.5274" said:

> In my opinion, raids were a mistake. Minority plays them and some of that minority might even just log in for raids and nothing else and often those people don't support the game with money.

How do you know those players don't support the game with money?

First, those playing Raids MUST buy the expansions to continue playing Raids and also to acquire the latest elite specs. Meanwhile non-raiders can stay farming SW all day and not bother.

Second, Raiders are vain creatures and buy new shinnies to show off, therefore they buy a lot from the gem store. Given how there is only a minority within the raiding community that finishes all wings on Monday, or does raid selling. The majority of Raid groups, statics mostly, finish 1 or 2 wings per evening, Raiders aren't making money. And, if they also train others for their guilds, they can actually lose money by raiding.

If anything, those that don't support the game with money are the open world farmers that follow timers, kill world bosses, complete lots of meta events in a row, press 1 on their keyboard and earn enough gold to buy everything they'll ever need. They make tons of gold more than the typical raider.

serialkicker.5274 · July 27, 2019

> @"yann.1946" said:

> As a point of disagreement, its not necessarily the content that is accessible and interesting to majority of players that keeps the most people.

>

> As an example (these are numbers pulled out of my kitten to demonstrate a point so bear with them for a sec)

>

> presume their are 100 people playing the game, now presume that their is lots of content for 95 of these people and almost none for the 5

>

> if they make content for the 95 they might keep the 95 and lose the 5 so endtotal is 95 people playing

>

> if they make content for the 5 they might keep the 5 and lose 2-3 people from the 95 because their still is so much content for the 95 left so endtotal is 97-98 people playing

If only 5% of you total friend list and guild stops playing over 2 years, because of the lack of content, I very much envy you. Your case assumes there is much to do for those 95, but that's exactly what we are discussing here to be a problem. Game is lacking content, and much of the content it gets, is designed for minority or it is designed to not have a great replayability. Designing content for 95 people have more chance to keep more people than designing content for 5 people.

> Their are probably also a lot of raiders who do openworld-wvw-pvp and who got hooked on the game using raids and now playing different gamemodes.

There might be. But there are also a lot of those who have done everything they wanted to do and now they just log in for raids, because that's the end game for them, hardest content and only thing worth their time.

> Without timers the meta would still exist and the bosses would be almost equally hard

Meta always exist no matter what, so that is not an argument really. Point I'm making is, by removing the timer, you make content more accessible, because it's not so limited and some people don't want to smack golems to perfect their rotation, people who don't want to have copy paste same build as every other warrior, people who can't bother or don't have time to go through nightmare to organize 10-man party every week, because some people can't reliably join every time (because real life) and then you have to replace them with someone and teach that someone from start and that someone has to gets their gear and build checked and practice rotation as well etc. Without timer, people can spend however long they want at the boss and if they are decently skilled and can figure out mechanics and how to survive, they can kill a boss at their own pace. Of course, I'd keep a timer based difficulty mode with better rewards for those that want that, like I already mentioned.

> So they are doing a good job then?

Uh, like I said, we'll have to actually wait and see when S5 comes. They said many things, not all of them turned as good as it sounded, or some haven't arrived at all.

> I agree that expacs would increase the population but that has very little to do with retention, more with a pop injection.

Oh, it does have to do with it. Without expansions that we got, I would stop playing long ago and LS wouldn't be able to bring me back. Features from expansions gave us a lot of "replayability" or "hours of fun". That alone keeps player in for longer, thus keeping population from dropping as fast.

> The question then becomes what is a healthy balance?

That's their job to figure out, not mine. I'm just expressing my opinion on it and the way I see this problem. Of course, I might be even wrong. They are maybe earning more money this way, but is it sustainable over longer period of time? I don't know.

serialkicker.5274 · July 27, 2019

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"serialkicker.5274" said:

> > In my opinion, raids were a mistake. Minority plays them and some of that minority might even just log in for raids and nothing else and often those people don't support the game with money.

>

> How do you know those players don't support the game with money?

> First, those playing Raids MUST buy the expansions to continue playing Raids and also to acquire the latest elite specs. Meanwhile non-raiders can stay farming SW all day and not bother.

> Second, Raiders are vain creatures and buy new shinnies to show off, therefore they buy a lot from the gem store. Given how there is only a minority within the raiding community that finishes all wings on Monday, or does raid selling. The majority of Raid groups, statics mostly, finish 1 or 2 wings per evening, Raiders aren't making money. And, if they also train others for their guilds, they can actually lose money by raiding.

>

> If anything, those that don't support the game with money are the open world farmers that follow timers, kill world bosses, complete lots of meta events in a row, press 1 on their keyboard and earn enough gold to buy everything they'll ever need. They make tons of gold more than the typical raider.

Gotta love how every time you quote me in any topic, you always come with same argument. "How do you know this and this" Well, how do YOU know things that you are saying. How do YOU know open world players do and don't do things you just mentioned? How do you come to conclusion raiders are these creatures who want to show off, but open world players aren't? Somehow you are getting all this info from somewhere that I'm not. You ask me how do I know stuff, then proceed to put some very specific info about some stuff without any proof yourself.

Of course I'm not saying my info is 100% correct, but we can do some logical assumptions combined with talking with those players and arrive to some conclusions. I know of many people who only log in for raids and don't really care for the rest of the game, so they don't want to pay money to support it. They view open world as boring and not worth their time, since raids are most challenging part of the game, so if they beat that, all the rest is not worth doing. Yes, they buy expansion, because they want new raid, but how much they support game otherwise? Depends. Open world players support game even by just playing and making all zones alive and willingly or not giving support to other players doing same content, making game feeling more alive and kicking. And game that feels alive and kicking gives everyone more reason and better feeling that supporting the game with money is a good cause. Raids are done by minority and even that minority is dived into groups who won't take new players or unexperienced, groups who raids only with their guild etc..

Obviously, there are people who do both, raids and pve. But no matter how you look at it, raids are quite limited and played by minority, so not a best investment in game that generally lacks content. If we also would be having new dungeons at the same time for example, then sure, if you have extra resources, go for raids. But, you have limited resources, content is sparse, and you decide to make more content that most people don't care about?

Yes, they said no more raids for now, so we'll see what S5 brings.

yann.1946 · July 27, 2019

> @"serialkicker.5274" said:

> > @"yann.1946" said:

>

> > As a point of disagreement, its not necessarily the content that is accessible and interesting to majority of players that keeps the most people.

> >

> > As an example (these are numbers pulled out of my kitten to demonstrate a point so bear with them for a sec)

> >

> > presume their are 100 people playing the game, now presume that their is lots of content for 95 of these people and almost none for the 5

> >

> > if they make content for the 95 they might keep the 95 and lose the 5 so endtotal is 95 people playing

> >

> > if they make content for the 5 they might keep the 5 and lose 2-3 people from the 95 because their still is so much content for the 95 left so endtotal is 97-98 people playing

> If only 5% of you total friend list and guild stops playing over 2 years, because of the lack of content, I very much envy you. Your case assumes there is much to do for those 95, but that's exactly what we are discussing here to be a problem. Game is lacking content, and much of the content it gets, is designed for minority or it is designed to not have a great replayability. Designing content for 95 people have more chance to keep more people than designing content for 5 people.

>

I was merely pointing out that its not that simple as making something for the mayority.

For all we know the ls is enough content to fill 3 months for 80 percent of the community.

We should realise that it a way bigger percentage of people on friendlists are hardcore players. Its an interesting study showing that its likely that your friends have more friends then you. :)

> > Their are probably also a lot of raiders who do openworld-wvw-pvp and who got hooked on the game using raids and now playing different gamemodes.

> There might be. But there are also a lot of those who have done everything they wanted to do and now they just log in for raids, because that's the end game for them, hardest content and only thing worth their time.

Sure, but if we talk about the impact (positive or negative) we should account for both , and the rippleeffect the first group causes.

> > Without timers the meta would still exist and the bosses would be almost equally hard

> Meta always exist no matter what, so that is not an argument really. Point I'm making is, by removing the timer, you make content more accessible, because it's not so limited and some people don't want to smack golems to perfect their rotation, people who don't want to have copy paste same build as every other warrior, people who can't bother or don't have time to go through nightmare to organize 10-man party every week, because some people can't reliably join every time (because real life) and then you have to replace them with someone and teach that someone from start and that someone has to gets their gear and build checked and practice rotation as well etc. Without timer, people can spend however long they want at the boss and if they are decently skilled and can figure out mechanics and how to survive, they can kill a boss at their own pace. Of course, I'd keep a timer based difficulty mode with better rewards for those that want that, like I already mentioned.

Their is good reason to believe that groups would wipe before the enrage timer becomes a problem regardless. That is atleast what a lot of trainingraids haave shown.

> > So they are doing a good job then?

> Uh, like I said, we'll have to actually wait and see when S5 comes. They said many things, not all of them turned as good as it sounded, or some haven't arrived at all.

>

> > I agree that expacs would increase the population but that has very little to do with retention, more with a pop injection.

> Oh, it does have to do with it. Without expansions that we got, I would stop playing long ago and LS wouldn't be able to bring me back. Features from expansions gave us a lot of "replayability" or "hours of fun". That alone keeps player in for longer, thus keeping population from dropping as fast.

>

LIke i said that has more to do with pulling people back into the game (even if they haven't left yet.)

They are important to happen, i agree.

> > The question then becomes what is a healthy balance?

> That's their job to figure out, not mine. I'm just expressing my opinion on it and the way I see this problem. Of course, I might be even wrong. They are maybe earning more money this way, but is it sustainable over longer period of time? I don't know.

>

maddoctor.2738 · July 27, 2019

> @"serialkicker.5274" said:

> Gotta love how every time you quote me in any topic, you always come with same argument. "How do you know this and this" Well, how do YOU know things that you are saying. How do YOU know open world players do and don't do things you just mentioned?

I simply corrected your mistake. You made a claim that "Those players don't support the game with money". I gave you why they do, and it's other players that don't. It's up to you to back up your claims, I backed mine with logic, you back it with "I've talked to people".

> Open world players support game even by just playing and making all zones alive and willingly or not giving support to other players doing same content, making game feeling more alive and kicking.

You don't need 100s of players to help players do the content. Further, you said supporting the game with money, re-read your post and don't change the topic.

Kahrgan.7401 · July 27, 2019