Lunateric.3708 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Team comps for every boss were updated too and Holo was completely erased from all of them. It's official boys, Holo is worse than prepatch in every regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"MrForz.1953" said: > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > > Also I find the loud chrono complaints a little interesting when they are near the top of the chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > They've always whined the loudest, and blown every nerf out of proportion as the thing that "kills" chrono. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, because damage is clearly the one and only thing that matters for class to be fun to play. Silly people, huh? > > > > > > > > When it comes to raids and high-end content, yes. > > > > > > With that logic, every class with top dps, no matter how simple and boring rotation it has, is the most fun class to play. > > > > And for many people I am sure this is true. > > Eh some people sign up to be a walking DPS number, it's their right. It's also how some enjoy this game or games in general and there isnt a thing wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasss.1208 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"MrForz.1953" said: > Eh some people sign up to be a walking DPS number, it's their right. The thing is, I hate to go into a raid, and play a spec that is inferior to other specs, on bosses where the team struggles to begin with. Pre-patch, the difference was much smaller, and the engi made up the difference with utilities - great cc, some aoe heal, (burst). Now, power engi is pretty much unplayeable for me. Condi is still there at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted July 28, 2019 Author Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"MrForz.1953" said: > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > > Also I find the loud chrono complaints a little interesting when they are near the top of the chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > They've always whined the loudest, and blown every nerf out of proportion as the thing that "kills" chrono. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, because damage is clearly the one and only thing that matters for class to be fun to play. Silly people, huh? > > > > > > > > When it comes to raids and high-end content, yes. > > > > > > With that logic, every class with top dps, no matter how simple and boring rotation it has, is the most fun class to play. > > > > And for many people I am sure this is true. > > Eh some people sign up to be a walking DPS number, it's their right. A lot of raids (even the non-elite ones) prefer people that play meta builds. While engineer is a bit more flexible than other classes, not being meta in ANY of the fights will make people annoyed, because you're more likely to fail. A lot of raid fights are DPS checks. And for fractals... getting through content as fast as possible is how most people prefer to do it. The fastest way through content is high DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"Lunateric.3708" said: > Team comps for every boss were updated too and Holo was completely erased from all of them. > > It's official boys, Holo is worse than prepatch in every regard. Ouch. Power holo has only two "good" ratings. At least condi holo still good on some standard bosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"MrForz.1953" said: > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > > > Also I find the loud chrono complaints a little interesting when they are near the top of the chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They've always whined the loudest, and blown every nerf out of proportion as the thing that "kills" chrono. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, because damage is clearly the one and only thing that matters for class to be fun to play. Silly people, huh? > > > > > > > > > > When it comes to raids and high-end content, yes. > > > > > > > > With that logic, every class with top dps, no matter how simple and boring rotation it has, is the most fun class to play. > > > > > > And for many people I am sure this is true. > > > > Eh some people sign up to be a walking DPS number, it's their right. > > It's also how some enjoy this game or games in general and there isnt a thing wrong with that. There's more to it than personal taste. When it comes to raids, there's two hurdles that players have to climb. The first is the mechanical hurdle, which is the ability to complete content as is designed by Anet. From this perspective, not only is scrapper/holo fine, but a lot of Play-How-I-Want builds are fine, too. The second hurdle is the community hurdle, which is the standard for which every other player expects you to perform at. This isn't a question of if you can complete a raid, but if you can complete it _well enough to avoid the ire of indignant players._ Therein lies the rub. I don't really get a choice of whether or not I am a walking DPS number. Everyone else decides that for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhaid Zhem.6508 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Wow, even condi daredevil and reaper are above ! So now we'll kick holo and accept necro in fractals ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > @"MrForz.1953" said: > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > > > > Also I find the loud chrono complaints a little interesting when they are near the top of the chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They've always whined the loudest, and blown every nerf out of proportion as the thing that "kills" chrono. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, because damage is clearly the one and only thing that matters for class to be fun to play. Silly people, huh? > > > > > > > > > > > > When it comes to raids and high-end content, yes. > > > > > > > > > > With that logic, every class with top dps, no matter how simple and boring rotation it has, is the most fun class to play. > > > > > > > > And for many people I am sure this is true. > > > > > > Eh some people sign up to be a walking DPS number, it's their right. > > > > It's also how some enjoy this game or games in general and there isnt a thing wrong with that. > > There's more to it than personal taste. When it comes to raids, there's two hurdles that players have to climb. The first is the mechanical hurdle, which is the ability to complete content as is designed by Anet. From this perspective, not only is scrapper/holo fine, but a lot of Play-How-I-Want builds are fine, too. The second hurdle is the community hurdle, which is the standard for which every other player expects you to perform at. This isn't a question of if you can complete a raid, but if you can complete it _well enough to avoid the ire of indignant players._ > > Therein lies the rub. I don't really get a choice of whether or not I am a walking DPS number. Everyone else decides that for me. Or you play with like-minded people who allow you to fulfill your role the way you want and don't project their expectations on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > @"MrForz.1953" said: > > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > > > > > Also I find the loud chrono complaints a little interesting when they are near the top of the chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They've always whined the loudest, and blown every nerf out of proportion as the thing that "kills" chrono. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, because damage is clearly the one and only thing that matters for class to be fun to play. Silly people, huh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When it comes to raids and high-end content, yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > With that logic, every class with top dps, no matter how simple and boring rotation it has, is the most fun class to play. > > > > > > > > > > And for many people I am sure this is true. > > > > > > > > Eh some people sign up to be a walking DPS number, it's their right. > > > > > > It's also how some enjoy this game or games in general and there isnt a thing wrong with that. > > > > There's more to it than personal taste. When it comes to raids, there's two hurdles that players have to climb. The first is the mechanical hurdle, which is the ability to complete content as is designed by Anet. From this perspective, not only is scrapper/holo fine, but a lot of Play-How-I-Want builds are fine, too. The second hurdle is the community hurdle, which is the standard for which every other player expects you to perform at. This isn't a question of if you can complete a raid, but if you can complete it _well enough to avoid the ire of indignant players._ > > > > Therein lies the rub. I don't really get a choice of whether or not I am a walking DPS number. Everyone else decides that for me. > > Or you play with like-minded people who allow you to fulfill your role the way you want and don't project their expectations on you. I play raids in a casual group of like-minded people who allow me to fulfill my role the way I want and am top DPS a lot of times because some of the others will lag in that role. I'm not going to be trying to carry DPS on holosmith anymore. We'd never get any clears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 > @"Chaba.5410" said: > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > @"MrForz.1953" said: > > > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > > > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Also I find the loud chrono complaints a little interesting when they are near the top of the chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They've always whined the loudest, and blown every nerf out of proportion as the thing that "kills" chrono. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, because damage is clearly the one and only thing that matters for class to be fun to play. Silly people, huh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When it comes to raids and high-end content, yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With that logic, every class with top dps, no matter how simple and boring rotation it has, is the most fun class to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > And for many people I am sure this is true. > > > > > > > > > > Eh some people sign up to be a walking DPS number, it's their right. > > > > > > > > It's also how some enjoy this game or games in general and there isnt a thing wrong with that. > > > > > > There's more to it than personal taste. When it comes to raids, there's two hurdles that players have to climb. The first is the mechanical hurdle, which is the ability to complete content as is designed by Anet. From this perspective, not only is scrapper/holo fine, but a lot of Play-How-I-Want builds are fine, too. The second hurdle is the community hurdle, which is the standard for which every other player expects you to perform at. This isn't a question of if you can complete a raid, but if you can complete it _well enough to avoid the ire of indignant players._ > > > > > > Therein lies the rub. I don't really get a choice of whether or not I am a walking DPS number. Everyone else decides that for me. > > > > Or you play with like-minded people who allow you to fulfill your role the way you want and don't project their expectations on you. > > I play raids in a casual group of like-minded people who allow me to fulfill my role the way I want and am top DPS a lot of times because some of the others will lag in that role. I'm not going to be trying to carry DPS on holosmith anymore. We'd never get any clears. Cool story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivantreil.3092 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > Also I find the loud chrono complaints a little interesting when they are near the top of the chart. > > > > They've always whined the loudest, and blown every nerf out of proportion as the thing that "kills" chrono. > > Yes, because damage is clearly the one and only thing that matters for class to be fun to play. Silly people, huh? Well man, we wouldn't be complaining about damage if we knew engineers had other ways to play, and DPS weren't our only ticket for a spot in a team raid. Healer engi is nowhere near accepted, beyond a funny experiment every now and then, and if i'm not wrong the Scrapper variant of this build got nerfed with this patch, more irrelevant than ever. We never had the chance to be a tank either, the most nearest thing to it was a gimmick Scrapper build for Kite Deimos and that's it, and i have yet to hear if the recent patch destroyed said build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serialkicker.5274 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 > @"Ivantreil.3092" said: > > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > Also I find the loud chrono complaints a little interesting when they are near the top of the chart. > > > > > > They've always whined the loudest, and blown every nerf out of proportion as the thing that "kills" chrono. > > > > Yes, because damage is clearly the one and only thing that matters for class to be fun to play. Silly people, huh? > > Well man, we wouldn't be complaining about damage if we knew engineers had other ways to play, and DPS weren't our only ticket for a spot in a team raid. > > Healer engi is nowhere near accepted, beyond a funny experiment every now and then, and if i'm not wrong the Scrapper variant of this build got nerfed with this patch, more irrelevant than ever. > > We never had the chance to be a tank either, the most nearest thing to it was a gimmick Scrapper build for Kite Deimos and that's it, and i have yet to hear if the recent patch destroyed said build. Read back to what I was responding. People claiming chrono shouldn't complain, because they supposedly (I don't know and don't care about who can smack the golem hardest) are on top of dps charts, meaning for a lot of people, damage is all that matters. If you tell them you have to smash #1 really damn hard and you'll have the highest dps in game, a lot of people would be happy to break their keyboards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > @"Ivantreil.3092" said: > > > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > Also I find the loud chrono complaints a little interesting when they are near the top of the chart. > > > > > > > > They've always whined the loudest, and blown every nerf out of proportion as the thing that "kills" chrono. > > > > > > Yes, because damage is clearly the one and only thing that matters for class to be fun to play. Silly people, huh? > > > > Well man, we wouldn't be complaining about damage if we knew engineers had other ways to play, and DPS weren't our only ticket for a spot in a team raid. > > > > Healer engi is nowhere near accepted, beyond a funny experiment every now and then, and if i'm not wrong the Scrapper variant of this build got nerfed with this patch, more irrelevant than ever. > > > > We never had the chance to be a tank either, the most nearest thing to it was a gimmick Scrapper build for Kite Deimos and that's it, and i have yet to hear if the recent patch destroyed said build. > > Read back to what I was responding. People claiming chrono shouldn't complain, because they supposedly (I don't know and don't care about who can smack the golem hardest) are on top of dps charts, meaning for a lot of people, damage is all that matters. If you tell them you have to smash #1 really kitten hard and you'll have the highest dps in game, a lot of people would be happy to break their keyboards. The didn't just top the DPS chart. They've also been the go-to support class and tank for a very long time. A team full of chronos and mirages could do all of the raid content quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nilix.2170 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Hi, I am a person who strictly plays this game the way that I feel like playing it. I have never wanted to play anything outside of Engineer (until just recently when I made a Mesmer for the sake of looking cute) so about 95% of my game time is on one. I just want you to know that the result of this > Or you play with like-minded people who allow you to fulfill your role the way you want and don't project their expectations on you. is simply not running dungeons for like the first year after release of this game, not running raids outside of the first two days when people are learning them, and spending up to four hours in a single fractal run (back when a single run used to be three in a row). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serialkicker.5274 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > > @"Ivantreil.3092" said: > > > > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > Also I find the loud chrono complaints a little interesting when they are near the top of the chart. > > > > > > > > > > They've always whined the loudest, and blown every nerf out of proportion as the thing that "kills" chrono. > > > > > > > > Yes, because damage is clearly the one and only thing that matters for class to be fun to play. Silly people, huh? > > > > > > Well man, we wouldn't be complaining about damage if we knew engineers had other ways to play, and DPS weren't our only ticket for a spot in a team raid. > > > > > > Healer engi is nowhere near accepted, beyond a funny experiment every now and then, and if i'm not wrong the Scrapper variant of this build got nerfed with this patch, more irrelevant than ever. > > > > > > We never had the chance to be a tank either, the most nearest thing to it was a gimmick Scrapper build for Kite Deimos and that's it, and i have yet to hear if the recent patch destroyed said build. > > > > Read back to what I was responding. People claiming chrono shouldn't complain, because they supposedly (I don't know and don't care about who can smack the golem hardest) are on top of dps charts, meaning for a lot of people, damage is all that matters. If you tell them you have to smash #1 really kitten hard and you'll have the highest dps in game, a lot of people would be happy to break their keyboards. > > The didn't just top the DPS chart. They've also been the go-to support class and tank for a very long time. A team full of chronos and mirages could do all of the raid content quite well. You still don't understand it seems. People are mainly complaining about rework of shatters, losing illusionary persona and f4 merge. They find playing a class more clunky and therefore less enjoyable. Posts I was quoting were saying they shouldn't complain, because they are on top of dps charts, which CLEARLY implies that damage is all that matters. Screw fun, you have top dps, don't complain. And I'm pretty sure full team of any class can complete raids, so I'm not sure what are you trying to prove there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 > @"Nephalem.8921" said: > You can swap Holo with engi as a whole. Its worse than necro in raids. Ah come on, take a look at the average numbers, the power holo is safe. He still got 1k dps higher on average than the power reaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agrippa Oculus.3726 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 > @"Noodle Ant.1605" said: > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > Also I find the loud chrono complaints a little interesting when they are near the top of the chart. > > Well, apart from PvP and still staying within the realm of high end PvE, what people do thoroughly enjoy is ignoring the fact how those high chrono numbers you speak of are only achievable under perma slow, only really being maintained in organised raid comps. > > Once you take out the slow, and because the chrono build that deals that sort of dmg doesn’t apply much or any slow at all, that supposedly high number shoots straight down to the 29k range. *Which btw is worse than ~31k*. If there’s slow (like in raids), sure fine whatever - otherwise, no-slow chrono has been nerfed repetitively for some time for no reason, to the point where core (and to an extent power mirage) is actually hands down better at casual open world/high-end PvE. > > Don’t just glance over the numbers posted on the SC website, I’ve found that it leaves out a lot of significant build-defining details (cleave, sustained dps, trash burst, etc.) and that it’s purely raid oriented. Just because chrono looks like it’s up there, doesn’t mean it’s like that throughout all of PvE or the entire game. > > Besides, I’ve been sitting on sub 31k for a while now, so I can say that I can feel for power dps holos right now. Ooh, it almost sounds like a certain class that has its highest DPS possible with permanent Chill only! ... And then still benchmarking the lowest of all (sorry for misusing this subforum, engies, I feel for you too, but ANet at least tries to fix things for you with the latest update (yesterday)). If there's one class in PvE (endgame) that does not deserve to complain one bit, because of ALL the optimal (and mostly even compulsory) builds it has (and for a while now!), it's the mesmer!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted July 31, 2019 Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > And I'm pretty sure full team of any class can complete raids, so I'm not sure what are you trying to prove there. Ehhhh, no. A full team of warriors and thieves would not be able to. And other classes, like engi and ele would struggle pretty hard. My point was that a team full of mirages and chronos would be completely meta -- they'd be able to finish the content way faster than most other groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodle Ant.1605 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > @"Noodle Ant.1605" said: > > Well, apart from PvP and still staying within the realm of high end PvE, what people do thoroughly enjoy is ignoring the fact how those high chrono numbers you speak of are only achievable under perma slow, only really being maintained in organised raid comps. > > > > Once you take out the slow, and because the chrono build that deals that sort of dmg doesn’t apply much or any slow at all, that supposedly high number shoots straight down to the 29k range. *Which btw is worse than ~31k*. If there’s slow (like in raids), sure fine whatever - otherwise, no-slow chrono has been nerfed repetitively for some time for no reason, to the point where core (and to an extent power mirage) is actually hands down better at casual open world/high-end PvE. > > > > Don’t just glance over the numbers posted on the SC website, I’ve found that it leaves out a lot of significant build-defining details (cleave, sustained dps, trash burst, etc.) and that it’s purely raid oriented. Just because chrono looks like it’s up there, doesn’t mean it’s like that throughout all of PvE or the entire game. > > > > Besides, I’ve been sitting on sub 31k for a while now, so I can say that I can feel for power dps holos right now. > > Ooh, it almost sounds like a certain class that has its highest DPS possible with permanent Chill only! ... And then still benchmarking the lowest of all (sorry for misusing this subforum, engies, I feel for you too, but ANet at least tries to fix things for you with the latest update (yesterday)). > If there's one class in PvE (endgame) that does not deserve to complain one bit, because of ALL the optimal (and mostly even compulsory) builds it has (and for a while now!), it's the mesmer!!! I dunno where you came from but I was responding specifically to someone who decided to introduce chrono using horribly situational numbers posted on a website that only deals with raids. And there’s not much similarity in your comparison as you think there is. And at least holos got something back. I’m still QQing on my side since prepatch and anet doesn’t seem to care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 > @"Nilix.2170" said: > Hi, I am a person who strictly plays this game the way that I feel like playing it. I have never wanted to play anything outside of Engineer (until just recently when I made a Mesmer for the sake of looking cute) so about 95% of my game time is on one. > I just want you to know that the result of this > > Or you play with like-minded people who allow you to fulfill your role the way you want and don't project their expectations on you. > is simply not running dungeons for like the first year after release of this game, not running raids outside of the first two days when people are learning them, and spending up to four hours in a single fractal run (back when a single run used to be three in a row). > Yep, this is what someone like @"mindcircus.1506" doesn't understand. Most people play the game to finish content within a reasonable amount of time, not take as long as possible or not play at all to protect our feelings. You can be a casual and still have some standards with regards to your time. It ain't all about being a hardcore DPS nerd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.7864 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 They buffed Laser's Edge from 15% to 25% damage which in turn buffs the effect for PBM. Unfortunately though, it's still a complete waste seeing as the toolbelt skills are disabled!! They provide a very nice and efficient burst, but hey, a 10% increase is better than nothing. Edit: this is PvE only too.. Also note that Glass Cannon trait was buffed from 5% damage to 7%. I wish the damage threshold was increased back to "below 90% hp". Sadly another useless trait change for me personally. Anybody else use this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 The ironic implication of all this is that Anet intends for Necro to always be bottom tier when it comes to benchmarks. "Oh, this class is doing less damage than necro? Better buff it up so it does more!" This means we could use necromancer as a unit of measurement if they're meant to be the baseline. Like, the current Deadeye benchmarks at 1.24 Necromancers. That, and power rev for some reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agrippa Oculus.3726 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 > @"Noodle Ant.1605" said: > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > > @"Noodle Ant.1605" said: > > > Well, apart from PvP and still staying within the realm of high end PvE, what people do thoroughly enjoy is ignoring the fact how those high chrono numbers you speak of are only achievable under perma slow, only really being maintained in organised raid comps. > > > > > > Once you take out the slow, and because the chrono build that deals that sort of dmg doesn’t apply much or any slow at all, that supposedly high number shoots straight down to the 29k range. *Which btw is worse than ~31k*. If there’s slow (like in raids), sure fine whatever - otherwise, no-slow chrono has been nerfed repetitively for some time for no reason, to the point where core (and to an extent power mirage) is actually hands down better at casual open world/high-end PvE. > > > > > > Don’t just glance over the numbers posted on the SC website, I’ve found that it leaves out a lot of significant build-defining details (cleave, sustained dps, trash burst, etc.) and that it’s purely raid oriented. Just because chrono looks like it’s up there, doesn’t mean it’s like that throughout all of PvE or the entire game. > > > > > > Besides, I’ve been sitting on sub 31k for a while now, so I can say that I can feel for power dps holos right now. > > > > Ooh, it almost sounds like a certain class that has its highest DPS possible with permanent Chill only! ... And then still benchmarking the lowest of all (sorry for misusing this subforum, engies, I feel for you too, but ANet at least tries to fix things for you with the latest update (yesterday)). > > If there's one class in PvE (endgame) that does not deserve to complain one bit, because of ALL the optimal (and mostly even compulsory) builds it has (and for a while now!), it's the mesmer!!! > > I dunno where you came from but I was responding specifically to someone who decided to introduce chrono using horribly situational numbers posted on a website that only deals with raids. > > And there’s not much similarity in your comparison as you think there is. > > And at least holos got something back. I’m still QQing on my side since prepatch and anet doesn’t seem to care. I'm talking about that same site giving us a very accurate depiction of the state of the PvE endgame in its optimal setting and actually giving ANet really sweet handles to balance to. But no, they hardly ever make use of that! Imo, ANet shouldn't balance to casual play or mediocre builds, or anything in the open world really! Always balance to your endgame and the maximum possibilities and capabilities of your classes/builds/etc. herein. Making it really frustrating if it's completely out of balance and stays like that for a long time! It's actually 101 basic gaming knowledge! ANet thinks differently about this or at least it looks like that, cause some of these godmode classes (in the PvE endgame) have been super-optimal for so incredibly long now. And therefore I was mentioning the mesmer as your prime example here. Although (frustratingly for them) now being _very slightly_ nerfed every single balance update, they're _still_ the pinnacle of optimal class picking with _several_ different builds at their disposal (Support, Power, Condi (Mirage AND [Chrono]( ) now, btw!)). While there are other classes out there that are suboptimal at best or even completely non-optimal in pretty much ANY PvE endgame encounter! I was giving the Necro as prime example here (again, sorry for misusing the Engi forums, but I could as well mention the Engi for this purpose, they're somewhat similar to the Necro in that regard). So in conclusion, the Mesmer mains should not QQ about getting nerfs at all, maybe they should actually wish for a complete gutting the next update, so they are up for (small) buffs in _all_ subsequent updates thereafter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodle Ant.1605 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > @"Noodle Ant.1605" said: > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > > > @"Noodle Ant.1605" said: > > > > Well, apart from PvP and still staying within the realm of high end PvE, what people do thoroughly enjoy is ignoring the fact how those high chrono numbers you speak of are only achievable under perma slow, only really being maintained in organised raid comps. > > > > > > > > Once you take out the slow, and because the chrono build that deals that sort of dmg doesn’t apply much or any slow at all, that supposedly high number shoots straight down to the 29k range. *Which btw is worse than ~31k*. If there’s slow (like in raids), sure fine whatever - otherwise, no-slow chrono has been nerfed repetitively for some time for no reason, to the point where core (and to an extent power mirage) is actually hands down better at casual open world/high-end PvE. > > > > > > > > Don’t just glance over the numbers posted on the SC website, I’ve found that it leaves out a lot of significant build-defining details (cleave, sustained dps, trash burst, etc.) and that it’s purely raid oriented. Just because chrono looks like it’s up there, doesn’t mean it’s like that throughout all of PvE or the entire game. > > > > > > > > Besides, I’ve been sitting on sub 31k for a while now, so I can say that I can feel for power dps holos right now. > > > > > > Ooh, it almost sounds like a certain class that has its highest DPS possible with permanent Chill only! ... And then still benchmarking the lowest of all (sorry for misusing this subforum, engies, I feel for you too, but ANet at least tries to fix things for you with the latest update (yesterday)). > > > If there's one class in PvE (endgame) that does not deserve to complain one bit, because of ALL the optimal (and mostly even compulsory) builds it has (and for a while now!), it's the mesmer!!! > > > > I dunno where you came from but I was responding specifically to someone who decided to introduce chrono using horribly situational numbers posted on a website that only deals with raids. > > > > And there’s not much similarity in your comparison as you think there is. > > > > And at least holos got something back. I’m still QQing on my side since prepatch and anet doesn’t seem to care. > > I'm talking about that same site giving us a very accurate depiction of the state of the PvE endgame in its optimal setting and actually giving ANet really sweet handles to balance to. But no, they hardly ever make use of that! Imo, ANet shouldn't balance to casual play or mediocre builds, or anything in the open world really! Always balance to your endgame and the maximum possibilities and capabilities of your classes/builds/etc. herein. Making it really frustrating if it's completely out of balance and stays like that for a long time! It's actually 101 basic gaming knowledge! ANet thinks differently about this or at least it looks like that, cause some of these godmode classes (in the PvE endgame) have been super-optimal for so incredibly long now. And therefore I was mentioning the mesmer as your prime example here. Although (frustratingly for them) now being _very slightly_ nerfed every single balance update, they're _still_ the pinnacle of optimal class picking with _several_ different builds at their disposal (Support, Power, Condi (Mirage AND [Chrono]( ) now, btw!)). While there are other classes out there that are suboptimal at best or even completely non-optimal in pretty much ANY PvE endgame encounter! I was giving the Necro as prime example here (again, sorry for misusing the Engi forums, but I could as well mention the Engi for this purpose, they're somewhat similar to the Necro in that regard). > > So in conclusion, the Mesmer mains should not QQ about getting nerfs at all, maybe they should actually wish for a complete gutting the next update, so they are up for (small) buffs in _all_ subsequent updates thereafter. Huh? Some of these points don’t make much sense (well, in what I’m trying to address at least). If I need to make it any clearer, I’m actually QQing that there’s a massive 8-9k difference between what’s advertised in this ‘accurate depiction of endgame’ and what happens when you can’t fulfil this one ridiculous condition which you yourself have practically no control over (unlike reaper who can solo supply waaay more than 40% uptime without losing significant amounts of dmg or becoming cc’less. Even then, they don’t lose any near as drastic). I’ve already advocated to nuke DT chrono dps since AGES AGO, cuz ppl like you storm in using the absolute top numbers as ‘proof’ and assume we get those numbers *everywhere, everytime* and don’t deserve fixing. And then, maybe thanks to those ppl, anet continues to nerf the wrong thing TIME AFTER TIME. By your methodology, it wouldn’t matter if only your class did 10k everywhere else as long as it’s >=35k ONLY IN RAIDS (**not even in CM’s**, you srsly thought I meant openworld?). **Cuz raids is totally 100% of the entire game** /s. Condi chrono was a bad example to bring up since like above, it excels in super-specific scenarios and is deadweight everywhere else. IMO, anet doesn’t seem like they’re trying to balance the game, all iterations of pchrono were at 33-34k last year, then anet decided to disturb the balance by introducing the 42k DT chrono and then continually nerf the balanced one past reaper territory, whilst leaving the DT way up there. Yeah, I kinda have to QQ since anet keeps wanting to go in the completely wrong direction. But hey, they managed to at least do *something right* for holo, so it’s all well and dandy now and so we should *really* stop using this thread to argue about unrelated matters. Like, let’s just leave it here or go to another subforum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted August 1, 2019 Author Share Posted August 1, 2019 > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > The ironic implication of all this is that Anet intends for Necro to always be bottom tier when it comes to benchmarks. "Oh, this class is doing less damage than necro? Better buff it up so it does more!" This means we could use necromancer as a unit of measurement if they're meant to be the baseline. Like, the current Deadeye benchmarks at 1.24 Necromancers. > > That, and power rev for some reason... To be fair, necro is one of the easiest classes to play, and engineer one of the hardest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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