Disable another degenerate build please

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"saerni.2584" said:

> > Lol, I don’t play S/D and they die easily enough.

> >

> > Why are we pretending that the one unfair thing about S/D (the LoS issue) makes the set OP?

>

> Its laughable at best. Power s/d build requires alot more timing and skill than like 90% of the builds out there to be effective with it, especially against this games powercreep. Best part is most these people are probably playing far more brain dead carry xlasses/builds and are dying to s/d thieves calling them op.

> If someone thinks power s/d is OP they definitely need to practice more and improve lol.

 

Or some1 who plays play a spec that offers Evade frames + condition removal + heal on evades just by pressing 2-3 attacks + dodge + all his traits/talent tree are ''defensive'' , he shoudlnt make 2200 posts about preteding he knows something :P

 

If a spec is more easier to be played than to be countered then its a ''noob tube '' spec for untalented ppl to catch up to other high skilled ppl :)

 

Theres a reason that they only thing that countered that is the 10.000 dolars championship was Caed and his pistol offhand Black Powder that used to pulse every 1 sec (got nerfed to 2 at the end)

 

Removing evades and giving 75% mitigation is an other thing although

Or give other classes more evades , to corectly evade his evade by evading his precast-evade (active play)

Or knockbacks/push (only) to go throught evades , so every spec like Vanilia Engi + HoT ele + Mesmers + and others that relie on spamming Evades , to be forced to waste a Mobility-''Charge'' attack and to continue their normal ''rotation''

[DEATHsCLAW.1978]

while the weakness on dodge is not a problem on power dd it's just condi thief that is overperforming rn

 

the whole ides of dealing damage while dodging is the problem and the biggest offenders there are condi thief and mirage

[praqtos.9035]

> @"Grimjack.8130" said:

> Condi Thief is only "strong" if you don't understand how conditions work. Conditions work in the last in first out method, last condition you got, first condition to get cleansed *ALWAYS*

Actually, thats you dont understand, condi evade throws 3 daggers with "cover conditions" right after they hop on you with a sword, guess which conditions were applied last?

This "nerf" will give them more frequent poison access which means IF conditions were cleansed, he would have it up sooner than before. Oh ye, spamming 6 condis over and over its not strong and braindead, its just problem of "understanding"

[praqtos.9035]

Whatever, not worth to repeat the same over and over.

[Axl.8924]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> **Thief Hater Crab:**

>

> I feel like most of the complaints about condi daredevil are coming from the s/x daredevil.

>

> more prominently the s/d version.

>

> I haven't seen many complaints about p/d condi, d/d condi, d/p condi, staff condi, deadeye condi, p/p condi.

>

> They almost always are complaining about the same build.

>

> All of the other builds have access to the same traits and same utilities (if they choose, except for deadeye).

>

> I submit that it is not any of the traits, or any of the utilities, or combo fields and dodges.

>

> It is literally SWORD 2.

>

> THAT is the problem.

>

> Take away the immobilize of the sword 2.

>

> That does TWO things to tone down this build.

>

> 1. They can no longer spam proc panic strike.

> 2. You can dodge follow up attacks or lotus daggers.

>

> **Thief Main Crab:**

>

> But what about power s/d?

>

> They NEED immobilize for their kit to work!

>

> **Thief Hater Crab:**

>

> They do? Why?

>

> **Thief Main Crab:**

>

> Because you don't want them to easy kite your noodle damage, and also we get the same poison procs that reduce the healing, but it doesn't do as much damage, so no one really complains.

>

> **Thief Hater Crab:**

>

> Well, you could bring deadly ambition and get the poison applications from that, on top of your steal. Besides they are making changes to it to make it less powerful, but more frequent. That suits you.

>

> **Thief Main Crab:**

>

> Yeah, but I need the extra heal from mug, and plus there is a little damage. I can't sacrifice that.

>

> **Thief Hater Crab:**

>

> It seems like you are trying to get bonuses while skirting trade-offs. Maybe the should take away poison application from panic strike, or give it a cooldown of 10 seconds or more.

>

> **Thief Main Crab:**

>

> Bro, I said that is my poison, anti-heal, pressure source.

>

> **Thief Hater Crab:**

>

> You have the option to bring deadly ambition.

>

> **Thief Main Crab:**

>

> Ok...but, what about about P/D thieves?

>

> **Thief Hater Crab:**

>

> What about them?

>

> **Thief Main Crab:**

>

> They have body shot, which immobilizes foes. They kind of need the poison application from panic strike to boost the weapon. ALSO, they can't just port in and out spam like s/d thief. So it's a bit more reasonable.

>

> **Thief Hater Crab:**

>

> So it is sword 2?

>

> **Thief Main Crab:**

>

> NO! It's a L2P issues, you need to get gud.

>

> **Thief Hater Crab:**

>

> I don't really have an issue with other thief types, and you even pointed out yourself why you think panic strike is okay, and WHO should/could use it.

>

> But, you really didn't acknowledge that power s/d doesn't need it.

>

> If you want poison application, take deadly ambition and sacrifice mug.

>

> This way we can take away poison from panic strike.

>

> If you don't want that, then sword 2 needs the immobilized removed.

>

> Because immobilizing skills need to be los-able.

>

> Immobilize is an extemely powerful cc and spamming it with distance safety or from behind walls is degenerate play.

>

> **Thief Main Crab:**

>

> Well, how can reduce kiting on the s/d which doesn't hit that hard?

>

> **Thief Hater Crab:**

>

> I say change it to cripple.

>

> **Thief Main Crab:**

>

> Cripple? But we already got cripple!

>

> **Thief Hater Crab:**

>

> Then does it need anything to replace immobilize?

>

> Because we can't give condi s/d any more cover condis, and you both got cripple.

>

> **Thief Main Crab:**

>

> Okay cripple, and if already crippled, blind too.

>

> **Random Forum User:**

>

> This Crab dude is literally having a conversation with himself.

>

> **Burnfall:**

>

> It is only after the complete removal of toxic thief can this game begin to heal.

>

> /facepalm

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

They want to take away our stealth because they are jealous that we can avoid stuff.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

The general design of "Press dodge inflict 5+ condis" is definitely bad for the game as it encourages mindless spam, but it isn't nearly as bad on condi thief as it is on mesmer. Mirage is an issue not so much because of the skills, but because the clones deal way too much passive condis. At least with thief you are only worrying about the thief and the conditions are only coming from the thief, not passive attacks from 3-7 illusions at all times that cannot be realistically avoided. 3 clones on staff with a condi amulet will do 3-5k ranged dps just by standing there and doing autos.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

People need to swallow their pride and actually play this build a bit to figure out how to deal with it. May not be able to kill it but sure you will make them work for their kills and it might be enough for backup/ node win

[bluri.2653]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> People need to swallow their pride and actually play this build a bit to figure out how to deal with it. May not be able to kill it but sure you will make them work for their kills and it might be enough for backup/ node win

 

It's nothing about figuring it out, this build overperform so much of how easy it is to play, it requires absolute ZERO brain to play actually, it is the lowest form of skillcap that is possible. THAT is the reason why it should get nerfed, you can't tell apart a good or a bad thief with that build whatsoever.

 

Mirror MU? Whoever gets the jump first wins. Incredible.

[bravan.3876]

> @"bluri.2653" said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > People need to swallow their pride and actually play this build a bit to figure out how to deal with it. May not be able to kill it but sure you will make them work for their kills and it might be enough for backup/ node win

>

> It's nothing about figuring it out, this build overperform so much of how easy it is to play, it requires absolute ZERO brain to play actually, it is the lowest form of skillcap that is possible. THAT is the reason why it should get nerfed, you can't tell apart a good or a bad thief with that build whatsoever.

>

> Mirror MU? Whoever gets the jump first wins. Incredible.

 

Just get on @"shadowpass.4236" skill lvl and kill them ez with core pu shatter Mes. It is rly about time we EU plebs improve to NA lvl and get farmed by power shatter Mes instead.

[bluri.2653]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > People need to swallow their pride and actually play this build a bit to figure out how to deal with it. May not be able to kill it but sure you will make them work for their kills and it might be enough for backup/ node win

> >

> > It's nothing about figuring it out, this build overperform so much of how easy it is to play, it requires absolute ZERO brain to play actually, it is the lowest form of skillcap that is possible. THAT is the reason why it should get nerfed, you can't tell apart a good or a bad thief with that build whatsoever.

> >

> > Mirror MU? Whoever gets the jump first wins. Incredible.

>

> Just get on @"shadowpass.4236" skill lvl and kill them ez with core pu shatter Mes. It is rly about time we EU plebs improve to NA lvl and get farmed by power shatter Mes instead.

 

????

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"bluri.2653" said:

> > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > People need to swallow their pride and actually play this build a bit to figure out how to deal with it. May not be able to kill it but sure you will make them work for their kills and it might be enough for backup/ node win

> > >

> > > It's nothing about figuring it out, this build overperform so much of how easy it is to play, it requires absolute ZERO brain to play actually, it is the lowest form of skillcap that is possible. THAT is the reason why it should get nerfed, you can't tell apart a good or a bad thief with that build whatsoever.

> > >

> > > Mirror MU? Whoever gets the jump first wins. Incredible.

> >

> > Just get on @"shadowpass.4236" skill lvl and kill them ez with core pu shatter Mes. It is rly about time we EU plebs improve to NA lvl and get farmed by power shatter Mes instead.

>

> ????

 

The same can be said about mantra mesmer so I don't see what's funny ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Also, in a Mirror MU if you get jumped by a condi thief first (like s2, steal, dodge), can't you just Signet of Agility right after the s2 + steal, dodge the Lotus Training which cleanses more condis (Escapist's Fortitude), and potentially swap to shortbow to proc Cleansing Sigil and kite? This doesn't require shadowstep and you can port away/back to cleanse more condis after surviving the initial burst. You could also run both Escape and Cleansing on shortbow to strip both the immobilize and cripple on top of the condi. A condi thief doesn't instantly kill you with 20k damage from stealth like a mantra mesmer does, so there's enough time to react imo.

 

With that being said, I _do_ think that condi thief's level of risk-reward just as lame/disproportionate as mantra mesmer's.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > > People need to swallow their pride and actually play this build a bit to figure out how to deal with it. May not be able to kill it but sure you will make them work for their kills and it might be enough for backup/ node win

> > > >

> > > > It's nothing about figuring it out, this build overperform so much of how easy it is to play, it requires absolute ZERO brain to play actually, it is the lowest form of skillcap that is possible. THAT is the reason why it should get nerfed, you can't tell apart a good or a bad thief with that build whatsoever.

> > > >

> > > > Mirror MU? Whoever gets the jump first wins. Incredible.

> > >

> > > Just get on @"shadowpass.4236" skill lvl and kill them ez with core pu shatter Mes. It is rly about time we EU plebs improve to NA lvl and get farmed by power shatter Mes instead.

> >

> > ????

>

> The same can be said about mantra mesmer so I don't see what's funny ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

>

> Also, in a Mirror MU if you get jumped by a condi thief first (like s2, steal, dodge), can't you just Signet of Agility right after the s2 + steal, dodge the Lotus Training which cleanses more condis (Escapist's Fortitude), and potentially swap to shortbow to proc Cleansing Sigil and kite? This doesn't require shadowstep and you can port away/back to cleanse more condis after surviving the initial burst. You could also run both Escape and Cleansing on shortbow to strip both the immobilize and cripple on top of the condi. A condi thief doesn't instantly kill you with 20k damage from stealth like a mantra mesmer does, so there's enough time to react imo.

>

> With that being said, I _do_ think that condi thief's level of risk-reward just as lame/disproportionate as mantra mesmer's.

 

Yup, but the other guy still has his signet and is a step ahead in the endurance race (condi spam) also the theif that's been jumped on has to play catch up. Not play this build but that's how most thief fights go, unless the 1 theif far out skills the other

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > > > People need to swallow their pride and actually play this build a bit to figure out how to deal with it. May not be able to kill it but sure you will make them work for their kills and it might be enough for backup/ node win

> > > > >

> > > > > It's nothing about figuring it out, this build overperform so much of how easy it is to play, it requires absolute ZERO brain to play actually, it is the lowest form of skillcap that is possible. THAT is the reason why it should get nerfed, you can't tell apart a good or a bad thief with that build whatsoever.

> > > > >

> > > > > Mirror MU? Whoever gets the jump first wins. Incredible.

> > > >

> > > > Just get on @"shadowpass.4236" skill lvl and kill them ez with core pu shatter Mes. It is rly about time we EU plebs improve to NA lvl and get farmed by power shatter Mes instead.

> > >

> > > ????

> >

> > The same can be said about mantra mesmer so I don't see what's funny ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

> >

> > Also, in a Mirror MU if you get jumped by a condi thief first (like s2, steal, dodge), can't you just Signet of Agility right after the s2 + steal, dodge the Lotus Training which cleanses more condis (Escapist's Fortitude), and potentially swap to shortbow to proc Cleansing Sigil and kite? This doesn't require shadowstep and you can port away/back to cleanse more condis after surviving the initial burst. You could also run both Escape and Cleansing on shortbow to strip both the immobilize and cripple on top of the condi. A condi thief doesn't instantly kill you with 20k damage from stealth like a mantra mesmer does, so there's enough time to react imo.

> >

> > With that being said, I _do_ think that condi thief's level of risk-reward just as lame/disproportionate as mantra mesmer's.

>

> Yup, but the other guy still has his signet and is a step ahead in the endurance race (condi spam) also the theif that's been jumped on has to play catch up. Not play this build but that's how most thief fights go, unless the 1 theif far out skills the other

 

The other thief will also be down a dodge. You will have your steal up and he won't. If you wanted to, you could kite him pretty easily now that you know he's there. If not, you can always counterpressure and fight it out.

 

Shadowstep away and sb 5? The other thief shadowsteps after you and goes for a s2 but you see it coming and dodge it. Now, the thief has nothing left to close the gap and stick on you except trying to cripple you with d4 which you can evade as well.

[bluri.2653]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > > > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > > > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > > > > People need to swallow their pride and actually play this build a bit to figure out how to deal with it. May not be able to kill it but sure you will make them work for their kills and it might be enough for backup/ node win

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It's nothing about figuring it out, this build overperform so much of how easy it is to play, it requires absolute ZERO brain to play actually, it is the lowest form of skillcap that is possible. THAT is the reason why it should get nerfed, you can't tell apart a good or a bad thief with that build whatsoever.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Mirror MU? Whoever gets the jump first wins. Incredible.

> > > > >

> > > > > Just get on @"shadowpass.4236" skill lvl and kill them ez with core pu shatter Mes. It is rly about time we EU plebs improve to NA lvl and get farmed by power shatter Mes instead.

> > > >

> > > > ????

> > >

> > > The same can be said about mantra mesmer so I don't see what's funny ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

> > >

> > > Also, in a Mirror MU if you get jumped by a condi thief first (like s2, steal, dodge), can't you just Signet of Agility right after the s2 + steal, dodge the Lotus Training which cleanses more condis (Escapist's Fortitude), and potentially swap to shortbow to proc Cleansing Sigil and kite? This doesn't require shadowstep and you can port away/back to cleanse more condis after surviving the initial burst. You could also run both Escape and Cleansing on shortbow to strip both the immobilize and cripple on top of the condi. A condi thief doesn't instantly kill you with 20k damage from stealth like a mantra mesmer does, so there's enough time to react imo.

> > >

> > > With that being said, I _do_ think that condi thief's level of risk-reward just as lame/disproportionate as mantra mesmer's.

> >

> > Yup, but the other guy still has his signet and is a step ahead in the endurance race (condi spam) also the theif that's been jumped on has to play catch up. Not play this build but that's how most thief fights go, unless the 1 theif far out skills the other

>

> The other thief will also be down a dodge. You will have your steal up and he won't. If you wanted to, you could kite him pretty easily now that you know he's there. If not, you can always counterpressure and fight it out.

>

> Shadowstep away and sb 5? The other thief shadowsteps after you and goes for a s2 but you see it coming and dodge it. Now, the thief has nothing left to close the gap and stick on you except trying to cripple you with d4 which you can evade as well.

 

you can't escape another thief, sb#5 will run out of ini eventually. Besides you are relying on a thief having every single CD up at all times, every single time you get the jump on a thief without having signet/shadowstep up hes dead lmao from getting stolen and dodged on, not a single power build has the ability to do this every 20 seconds(dont even need steal, just the venom utility up rofl)

 

trying to defend this is nothing but laughable

[Psycoprophet.8107]

The balance iteration before the most recent had DA applying 1 stack of poison every 5 seconds unless I read it wrong which is entirely possible lol if so this is anet right? They probably forgot to add it into the latest notes. I imagine they didn't just decide to not change the trait. As far as lotus is concerned are evades not thiefs main way to sustain? Seems like using lotus wasting ur evades to do dps instead of evading at a more beneficial time is a decent trade off tho the condi dps could maybe use a small shave on it as well.

The whole game is built on cheese bursts with very short ttk ratios, the tanks bursts like rogues. Every class has a favored spec with a fotm cheese buuld/burst rotations that everyone uses every match lol condi thief is just the game evolving to more cheese.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"bluri.2653" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > > > > > People need to swallow their pride and actually play this build a bit to figure out how to deal with it. May not be able to kill it but sure you will make them work for their kills and it might be enough for backup/ node win

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It's nothing about figuring it out, this build overperform so much of how easy it is to play, it requires absolute ZERO brain to play actually, it is the lowest form of skillcap that is possible. THAT is the reason why it should get nerfed, you can't tell apart a good or a bad thief with that build whatsoever.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Mirror MU? Whoever gets the jump first wins. Incredible.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Just get on @"shadowpass.4236" skill lvl and kill them ez with core pu shatter Mes. It is rly about time we EU plebs improve to NA lvl and get farmed by power shatter Mes instead.

> > > > >

> > > > > ????

> > > >

> > > > The same can be said about mantra mesmer so I don't see what's funny ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

> > > >

> > > > Also, in a Mirror MU if you get jumped by a condi thief first (like s2, steal, dodge), can't you just Signet of Agility right after the s2 + steal, dodge the Lotus Training which cleanses more condis (Escapist's Fortitude), and potentially swap to shortbow to proc Cleansing Sigil and kite? This doesn't require shadowstep and you can port away/back to cleanse more condis after surviving the initial burst. You could also run both Escape and Cleansing on shortbow to strip both the immobilize and cripple on top of the condi. A condi thief doesn't instantly kill you with 20k damage from stealth like a mantra mesmer does, so there's enough time to react imo.

> > > >

> > > > With that being said, I _do_ think that condi thief's level of risk-reward just as lame/disproportionate as mantra mesmer's.

> > >

> > > Yup, but the other guy still has his signet and is a step ahead in the endurance race (condi spam) also the theif that's been jumped on has to play catch up. Not play this build but that's how most thief fights go, unless the 1 theif far out skills the other

> >

> > The other thief will also be down a dodge. You will have your steal up and he won't. If you wanted to, you could kite him pretty easily now that you know he's there. If not, you can always counterpressure and fight it out.

> >

> > Shadowstep away and sb 5? The other thief shadowsteps after you and goes for a s2 but you see it coming and dodge it. Now, the thief has nothing left to close the gap and stick on you except trying to cripple you with d4 which you can evade as well.

>

> you can't escape another thief, sb#5 will run out of ini eventually. Besides you are relying on a thief having every single CD up at all times, every single time you get the jump on a thief without having signet/shadowstep up hes dead lmao from getting stolen and dodged on, not a single power build has the ability to do this every 20 seconds(dont even need steal, just the venom utility up rofl)

>

> trying to defend this is nothing but laughable

 

> @"bluri.2653" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > > > > > People need to swallow their pride and actually play this build a bit to figure out how to deal with it. May not be able to kill it but sure you will make them work for their kills and it might be enough for backup/ node win

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It's nothing about figuring it out, this build overperform so much of how easy it is to play, it requires absolute ZERO brain to play actually, it is the lowest form of skillcap that is possible. THAT is the reason why it should get nerfed, you can't tell apart a good or a bad thief with that build whatsoever.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Mirror MU? Whoever gets the jump first wins. Incredible.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Just get on @"shadowpass.4236" skill lvl and kill them ez with core pu shatter Mes. It is rly about time we EU plebs improve to NA lvl and get farmed by power shatter Mes instead.

> > > > >

> > > > > ????

> > > >

> > > > The same can be said about mantra mesmer so I don't see what's funny ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

> > > >

> > > > Also, in a Mirror MU if you get jumped by a condi thief first (like s2, steal, dodge), can't you just Signet of Agility right after the s2 + steal, dodge the Lotus Training which cleanses more condis (Escapist's Fortitude), and potentially swap to shortbow to proc Cleansing Sigil and kite? This doesn't require shadowstep and you can port away/back to cleanse more condis after surviving the initial burst. You could also run both Escape and Cleansing on shortbow to strip both the immobilize and cripple on top of the condi. A condi thief doesn't instantly kill you with 20k damage from stealth like a mantra mesmer does, so there's enough time to react imo.

> > > >

> > > > With that being said, I _do_ think that condi thief's level of risk-reward just as lame/disproportionate as mantra mesmer's.

> > >

> > > Yup, but the other guy still has his signet and is a step ahead in the endurance race (condi spam) also the theif that's been jumped on has to play catch up. Not play this build but that's how most thief fights go, unless the 1 theif far out skills the other

> >

> > The other thief will also be down a dodge. You will have your steal up and he won't. If you wanted to, you could kite him pretty easily now that you know he's there. If not, you can always counterpressure and fight it out.

> >

> > Shadowstep away and sb 5? The other thief shadowsteps after you and goes for a s2 but you see it coming and dodge it. Now, the thief has nothing left to close the gap and stick on you except trying to cripple you with d4 which you can evade as well.

>

> you can't escape another thief, sb#5 will run out of ini eventually. Besides you are relying on a thief having every single CD up at all times, every single time you get the jump on a thief without having signet/shadowstep up hes dead lmao from getting stolen and dodged on, not a single power build has the ability to do this every 20 seconds(dont even need steal, just the venom utility up rofl)

>

> trying to defend this is nothing but laughable

 

I think you're misunderstanding me here. I'm not defending condi thief. The build doesn't require any skill to be effective and should be nerfed.

 

However, don't take me for a fool. You're a better thief than I, but I still understand how to play every class and most of their builds effectively.

 

There are a few points I want to make:

 

- First of all, I understand that you will not have all of your cooldowns up at all times. That should go without saying that _any_ condi build getting the jump on you without you having signet/shadowstep up results in your death. So, it's not just condi thief where you'll run into this issue.

- Second, you're also under the assumption that the other thief will have signet/shadowstep up as well. In a mirror matchup, there's nothing stopping you from using S2, steal, and condi dodging the other thief right after he uses Infiltrator's Return. If the other thief doesn't have any condi clears up, he will die as well.

- Third, if you do have shadowstep and the initiative required to use SB5 once or twice, and the other thief matches you... that means he doesn't have enough initiative to actually kill you. At this point, he could attempt to hit you with a shortbow auto to apply poison but you can also just fire back and then you're on relatively equal footing. Any other attacks from the other thief like SB2 or SB4 should be easy for you to avoid.

- Next, you don't have to run away before you do this, but if the thief is looking to engage with S2 again, you can drop Choking Gas on yourself and dodge right when you see the nameplate disappear. This means that the other thief will miss his S2 into 6 stacks of poison (or around 10+ if you have Spider Venom up), an interrupt, weakness, bleeding, torment, and cripple. After this, he'll probably look to condi clear and you can continue the fight from there.

- Etc. etc.

 

My main point of disagreement was you laughing at Bravan's comment as if mantra mesmer was somehow any less problematic than condi thief.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

> @"bluri.2653" said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > People need to swallow their pride and actually play this build a bit to figure out how to deal with it. May not be able to kill it but sure you will make them work for their kills and it might be enough for backup/ node win

>

> It's nothing about figuring it out, this build overperform so much of how easy it is to play, it requires absolute ZERO brain to play actually, it is the lowest form of skillcap that is possible. THAT is the reason why it should get nerfed, **_you can't tell apart a good or a bad thief with that build whatsoever. _**

>

> Mirror MU? **Whoever gets the jump first wins. Incredible.**

 

Kitten. You can _always_ tell a bad and a good thief apart. Particularly so, with condi thief.

 

Just like with mirage, part of the complaints - if not majority of them - are pure L2P issues. Stop spamming and start paying attention. Otherwise, I fear we may be playing a different game.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Yeah bluri stop spamming and pay attention, it's like u think ur sindrener or somthing. Get gud!

 

Obviously kidding.

[bravan.3876]

> @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > People need to swallow their pride and actually play this build a bit to figure out how to deal with it. May not be able to kill it but sure you will make them work for their kills and it might be enough for backup/ node win

> >

> > It's nothing about figuring it out, this build overperform so much of how easy it is to play, it requires absolute ZERO brain to play actually, it is the lowest form of skillcap that is possible. THAT is the reason why it should get nerfed, **_you can't tell apart a good or a bad thief with that build whatsoever. _**

> >

> > Mirror MU? **Whoever gets the jump first wins. Incredible.**

>

> Kitten. You can _always_ tell a bad and a good thief apart. Particularly so, with condi thief.

>

> Just like with mirage, part of the complaints - if not majority of them - are pure L2P issues. Stop spamming and start paying attention. Otherwise, I fear we may be playing a different game.

 

Are you playing in legendary division? I guess not, because i haven't seen this acc name in any plat3/legend game as far as i remember. With bad matchmaking in addition (can match you with gold player) it can even mean you are playing in silver div (maybe you play Condithief?). Means yes Sindrener is clearly playing a different game than you.

 

To the complains, it was just insane funny how hard Shadowpass complains about Mantramesmer (and only means Chaosline Mesmer in the end, because try to play Mantramesmer without Chaosline and without Massinvis and you have a completely different story) showing screenshots not proving anything and clips with showing only bad plays from the person getting oneshoted, a oneshot that was easy to counter and to avoid and not a death duo to an op build in 2 out of 3 clips but can write essays about how to counter Condithief. Claiming that EU player are just too bad to outplay Condithief and too bad to play a Mantra Powermes (a build he claims to be easy played in the same sentence cuz logic). I just can't take him serious anymore even though he says he agrees to me in most parts but then arguing completely different 99% of the time and just in a way he needs it. It deserves nothing more than a good laugh though. I just feel bad for pinging him, he missunderstood that as invite to talk again, what wasn't intended by me. Just wait 2 months then you will have 2-3 Condithieves each game in NA too, just like with Rev not being meta there before it was lately nerfed because NA always was few months behind in meta stuff to EU and in some parts always had a different meta duo to reasons i mentioned several times already and have nothing to do with EU players being too bad to counter or to play anything.

[bluri.2653]

> @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > People need to swallow their pride and actually play this build a bit to figure out how to deal with it. May not be able to kill it but sure you will make them work for their kills and it might be enough for backup/ node win

> >

> > It's nothing about figuring it out, this build overperform so much of how easy it is to play, it requires absolute ZERO brain to play actually, it is the lowest form of skillcap that is possible. THAT is the reason why it should get nerfed, **_you can't tell apart a good or a bad thief with that build whatsoever. _**

> >

> > Mirror MU? **Whoever gets the jump first wins. Incredible.**

>

> Kitten. You can _always_ tell a bad and a good thief apart. Particularly so, with condi thief.

>

> Just like with mirage, part of the complaints - if not majority of them - are pure L2P issues. Stop spamming and start paying attention. Otherwise, I fear we may be playing a different game.

 

Ye delusional at its finest

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

> @"bluri.2653" said:

> > @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > People need to swallow their pride and actually play this build a bit to figure out how to deal with it. May not be able to kill it but sure you will make them work for their kills and it might be enough for backup/ node win

> > >

> > > It's nothing about figuring it out, this build overperform so much of how easy it is to play, it requires absolute ZERO brain to play actually, it is the lowest form of skillcap that is possible. THAT is the reason why it should get nerfed, **_you can't tell apart a good or a bad thief with that build whatsoever. _**

> > >

> > > Mirror MU? **Whoever gets the jump first wins. Incredible.**

> >

> > Kitten. You can _always_ tell a bad and a good thief apart. Particularly so, with condi thief.

> >

> > Just like with mirage, part of the complaints - if not majority of them - are pure L2P issues. Stop spamming and start paying attention. Otherwise, I fear we may be playing a different game.

>

> Ye delusional at its finest

 

Ye I suppose it's delusional to assume people still playing any semblance of a brain.

 

EDIT: especially on NA servers.