The power creep of Spellbreaker.

[Shao.7236]

td;lr at bottom

 

Gonna get a lot of hate for it, but many seem to agree that it has too much sustain for any other professions to actually do anything relevant. Given that Full Counter cooldown is extremely low and easy to proc on anything that uses AoE's which plays a big part of the problem. There's like so many tools and options for the builds lately that significantly speaking it's impossible to fight a Spellbreaker without baiting/stowing/take large amount of hits/CC perfectly without any misteps to actually have a chance before wearing it out. Requiring most of the time, multi hit pressure in 1v2's with constant CC's to actually stop one from doing anything.

 

It doesn't feel right that I can do so much with so little risk, the class really feels easy and overtuned to the point where it's actually not fun to fight, skills don't hold any value and can just be used blindly to setup anything without concerns of the consequences if it turns out to be a wrong move, let alone if there can be a wrong move when everything is nearly forced to succeed with either fast casts or just plain evade frames.

 

Like I really love what they did with the profession, but there seems to be no stopping and that's just hurting variety altogether with all these connected evades and safe routes to deal massive damage. There's a lot of better benefits and things that could be done with Full Counter rather than being what it is as such an overpowered sustain skill, just at a cost of having twice the cooldown of untraited burst skills, so 16 seconds which would put it in line with an actual evade endurance. (Which is basically what it is but can actually daze people as unblockable which is REALLY strong.) If that hits anything, you get to spam soooo many evades carelessly that can hit up to 5k, you'd still get to that, just a bit less often so that people actually have a chance and that the other skills have some actual value and timing to it rather than just FC THIS FC THAT FC TOO whether it's properly timed or not (Hint hint, it never really is, quite rarely is there some good timing involved.).

 

The whole Spellbreaker sustain relies on it, but it takes absolutely no damn competent thinking to really pull off since it's obtained so often.

 

Some people may even complain that it doesn't hit hard and I get that, but this is why the skill should hold more value as not just "must press because I can" but rather say reflect burst damage by either say 75% or even 100% which would give the incentive to actually use it right because it has a longer cooldown AND high reward to it that is actually earned.

 

People can say, you can just stow or evade it, but it's just hypocritical to ignore the fact about how easy it is to proc around an objective, team fights or just that someone uses AoE's may know to stow but the aoe behind pretty much betrays, then there's still massive utility as well as damage that comes alongside it.

 

There's just no reason to deny it, but I really think Spellbreaker is in need of a nerf compared core Warrior, because core Warrior actually feels fair and earned to avoid and fight properly rather than something that's always accessible and takes no real thought process to work with.

 

td;lr Full Counter makes the sustain OP and it overwhelms everything. Cooldown is too low and needs to be increased because it holds no value or enjoyable benefits in the actual use, make damage taken to be the actual damage that's reflected, giving an incentive to use it in the right places for a good reward, adding value to utility skills as well so that nothing is recklessly used without much risk.

[Hoodie.1045]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> td;lr Full Counter makes the sustain OP and it overwhelms everything. Cooldown is too low and needs to be increased because it holds no value or enjoyable benefits in the actual use, make damage taken to be the actual damage that's reflected, giving an incentive to use it in the right places for a good reward, adding value to utility skills as well so that nothing is recklessly used without much risk.

 

I agree with you for the most part, Full Counter is indeed very easy to use, has a very low cooldown and the daze lasts for 0.5 seconds in PvE, but lasts for 1.5 seconds in PvP/WvW. Spellbreaker excels in team fights compared to core warrior and it can be annoying to get dazed when one of your teammate attacks the spellbreaker while using their Full Counter. However, it's not completely overpowered. For one, it's seen plenty of nerfs and it's no longer as annoying as it used to be. Ranged professions have no problems making spellbreakers waste their Full Counter and dodging as a melee profession especially as core warrior with Whirlwind Attack (greatsword 3) is a clever usage of weapon skills to proc the Full Counter while avoiding its daze.

 

The reason why Full Counter gives spellbreakers so much sustain is that it also procs traits like Adrenal Health, Berserker's Power and Burst Mastery. If ArenaNet nerfs Full Counter by not making it proc those core traits, then nobody will play spellbreaker in PvP. If that ever happens then it won't be a big issue for me because, to be honest I've never been a fan of spellbreaker. It's mechanic is incredibly safe and it's no wonder there are more spellbreakers in PvP compared to the number of people who play core warrior. Core warrior is more engaging to me because you're not completely immune to damage, you have to play cautiously, but also because the axe burst skill Eviscerate rewards you for timing your attacks and seeing a huge portion of an enemy's health bar drop instantly is very satisfying to see.

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

its been nerfed far more than enough

[cryorion.9532]

This again... how about removing Spellbreaker from the game so people can find something else to whine about?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

You do realize that Full Counter can be interrupted right? It doesn't block the hit, it just reduces the damage from it to 0, pops some evade frames, then damages/dazes people that are close by. If the original hit had CC on it that connects before the evade frames start then FC gets interrupted.

[Caedmon.6798]

So pressing counter takes no skill compared to pressing any other skill ingame ? Ok.

 

"The whole Spellbreaker sustain relies on it, but it takes absolutely no kitten competent thinking to really pull off since it's obtained so often."

 

Lowkey insulting spellbreakers for w/e reason lol.

 

 

@ Hoodie.1045 "The reason why Full Counter gives spellbreakers so much sustain is that it also procs traits like Adrenal Health, Berserker's Power and Burst Mastery. If ArenaNet nerfs Full Counter by not making it proc those core traits, "

 

It's a Burst,it Should proc those effects as Bursting Activates Burst related Traits...

[Rettan.9603]

The only broken thing on full counter is the animation bug :-/

 

If they reduce the duration of it it would be harder to use and players have to time it better. That would be fine. But a much bigger problem of Spellbreaker is how easy it is to achieve high damage numbers in a defensive build.

[ButterPeanut.9746]

Most of the comments here are pretty misinformed from at least a PvP perspective. FC has seen enough nerfs that it barely means anything at this point to proc it.

 

Just proc it and dodge or move out of 300 range and the FC is completely wasted. What makes FC strong at this point is:

* The stability and evade. The daze is decent but with amount of stab in the game right now it doesn't interrupt a ton.

 

* The fact that it is a burst skill only really matters at this point due to Magebane tether and might makes right in Strength. Without Strength, the amount of damage that spb does in a pvp setting is so low that it's useless. MMR is also what gives the warrior any sustain via healing and evade. MMR is combined with magebane is really the problem, but if you changed this without overhauling anything else you absolutely kill any warrior spec in pvp.

 

* Making it reflect the damage would be fine change, just make it undodgeable, unblockable, unblindable and infinite range. Like if deadeye hits you with death's judgement from 1500 away and you use FC, it should hit the deadeye back if FC becomes a "turn the damage absorbed back to the enemy" skill. Anything less and this is useless due to range, blind, evades, etc.

 

What I would really like is a spellbreaker trait/utility rework to be focused on boon removal. Many folks are tired of the reliance on MMR, Strength Traitline, Bulls Charge, and Rampage.

The spb spec was initially designed for boon removal and and I personally believe the flavor and the pvp state right now needs a spec that hard counters builds that generate a crap ton of boons.

 

For example:

* Lower amount of stats gained by Attacker's Insight in PvP, but make it infinitely stackable.

* Break enchantments now has a 20s recharge but has two ammo and removes all boons on the target

 

I would argue at this point that the Meditations on Spb are the worst/least used utility type in the entire game. They desperately need a rework.

[Shao.7236]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

Boon Steal CC is just way too situational to prepare given they can just get another one right after 9 seconds which is less time than a weapon swap while they still and probably will have all their utility to use on you as you will run out of sustain given you would have been better off keeping your weapon swap for something else, the fact that I can overwhelm anything and anyone by just having high level of damaging avoidance is just repeating how OP spellbreaker was at release by just connecting all sustain skills together and being basically nearly untouchable as a Daredevil which those mind you still have more chance to get hit in between just because weapon evades have more of a window of opportunity, Spellbreaker just get those evades constantly and not hitting FC is not exactly something you can always do if you're not another class that doesn't rely on a single AoE.

 

> @"Caedmon.6798" said:

Yeah, say that to PoF release Spellbreaker, must have the lowest cooldown so that nobody can touch it nor ever win a fight because of a simple button that AoE's can trigger accidentally. The momentum this skill give is just whack and unnecessary, there is little risk playing spellbreaker and reducing that momentum is what Anet did to stop that meme from happening, clearly it wasn't enough as we are seeing the same trend again as things are getting more and more balanced and more high skilled builds starts to emerge, the problem becomes very noticeable.

 

After 1.5k games of Warrior, given each quarter is me playing all 3 specs. I'm fairly confident in my ability that Spellbreaker has too much avoidance to be called balanced compared Core or Berserker, let alone that Berserker can't even use burst skills anymore and the mode still has the highest cooldown out of all bursts, one may say that they can spam which is untrue, there's no significant benefit to spamming either unless opposite team is down right ignorant of it. Spellbreaker other can easily achieve Berserker damage more safely and less obvious outside of the AoE burst of Berserker which is basically the only thing it has going for itself, given that nobody actually needs 3 adrenaline bars to do anything big because Dagger/Greatsword deal the same damage no matter what.

 

> @"cryorion.9532" said:

Define whining, maybe I'm tired of having my teams just being stacked at close to just deal with one Spellbreaker that can just laugh it's arse off dancing around doing the same thing over and over without much risk. I like playing Spellbreaker, but it's overtuned as hell and needs to be brought back to actual levels of balance, bring back the damage, for all I care that wasn't really the issue, just the fact that this skill is basically a better evade that will turn around any fight like a out of jail card anytime there's too much pressure every 9 seconds.

 

> @"Rettan.9603" said:

Fixing that is pretty hard, that has to do with interpolation issues in the network code.

 

High damage in a defensive build? It's because the cooldown is too low and can be connected with all the rest of the skills without much risk.

 

> @"Hoodie.1045" said:

Thank you, I'm glad that someone can actually see how ridiculous the risks are low and too rewarding with all the changes and nerfs that been occurring lately.

 

I for myself want FC to be more meaningful of a skill and I think this is the way it should be rather than the wet noodle daze spam that can setup for bigger attacks and make the sustain for incredible sustain above everything else.

 

> @"ButterPeanut.9746" said:

> Most of the comments here are pretty misinformed from at least a PvP perspective. FC has seen enough nerfs that it barely means anything at this point to proc it.

The proc is the reason why Warrior gets to be basically nearly immortal, so.. I kinda have to disagree.

 

> * The stability and evade. The daze is decent but with amount of stab in the game right now it doesn't interrupt a ton.

Stability is rarely useful if you don't have boon spam versus spellbreaker.

> * The fact that it is a burst skill only really matters at this point due to Magebane tether and might makes right in Strength. Without Strength, the amount of damage that spb does in a pvp setting is so low that it's useless. MMR is also what gives the warrior any sustain via healing and evade. MMR is combined with magebane is really the problem, but if you changed this without overhauling anything else you absolutely kill any warrior spec in pvp.

This is where I come in and say that core warrior is more balanced, because they earn their benefits in fights in more skillful manners than just through FC that is always readily available as low risk high reward benefits.

>

> * Making it reflect the damage would be fine change, just make it undodgeable, unblockable, unblindable and infinite range. Like if deadeye hits you with death's judgement from 1500 away and you use FC, it should hit the deadeye back if FC becomes a "turn the damage absorbed back to the enemy" skill. Anything less and this is useless due to range, blind, evades, etc.

Don't change the range, as a condition revenant that can just return damage in a radius of 240 via legend swap and 600 via true nature. It is not balanced in the slightest to make it so big. Reflecting Damage from a Deadeye towards someone in a teamfight does sound weird and somewhat OP but it would put the incentive and value to use the skill to get greater benefits. Granted resistance can be earned via traits on FC, this would probably make it more attractive to have, even though that the blind is something the Deadeye could do to safely with Sniper Cover, it would basically give it's position away regardless, so the odds of that happening would be pretty rare.

 

Anyway, if it's not for reflecting, bringing the 5k damage per FC would be fine by me if the cooldown was at least 15 seconds, because in the past, the high avoidance and damage was just plain OP.

 

> What I would really like is a spellbreaker trait/utility rework to be focused on boon removal. Many folks are tired of the reliance on MMR, Strength Traitline, Bulls Charge, and Rampage.

With the changes to tactics, there's definitely more that will arise, but if I have a word to say. I've already covered how Bulls Charge should get stability and not an evade for many reasons that the skill is otherwise dominants in the utility slots just for that. Rampage does feel like it needs is damage nerfed, considering how 1 mistake can just cost you 8k health right away, it's no wonder every one is upset.

 

> The spb spec was initially designed for boon removal and and I personally believe the flavor and the pvp state right now needs a spec that hard counters builds that generate a kitten ton of boons.

There's many specs that can do it, just that they have a higher skill ceiling in their sustain aspects, like condition revenant that is very susceptible to CC unless Jalis is used or core necromancer that is also very susceptible to CC.

 

> I would argue at this point that the Meditations on Spb are the worst/least used utility type in the entire game. They desperately need a rework.

Definitely, Sight Beyond Sight is beyond useless, Break Enchantments is too niche, Imminent Threat radius is so damn small there's no reason to even acknowledge it exists.

 

> @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

More like it's being wrongly nerfed and needs to be properly addressed.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> You do realize that Full Counter can be interrupted right? It doesn't block the hit, it just reduces the damage from it to 0, pops some evade frames, then damages/dazes people that are close by. If the original hit had CC on it that connects before the evade frames start then FC gets interrupted.

 

what... no thats not true lol (cant be... ive never seen this happen)

 

The only way that happens is if a cc hits you that does not deal strike damage as in necro warhorn 4 for example which causes a daze but does not deal a strike. This removes the free stab you get on using FC

 

Now at this point if you get hit with a 2nd cc FC will be interupted

 

Your situation is much more rare as you need 2 cc's to hit at almost the exact some time which is incredibly hard to do.

Even if your example is true what cc do you know is fast enough to follow up after landing a strike thats going to proc FC that will hit you before evade frames trigger (ive never EVER seen fc get interrupted once its triggered into the counter attack)

 

The only attacks that can land a strike against FC and cause it to be interrupted is an attack that corrupts or strips boons at the same time. in other words another spell breaker using a cc on you can interupt your full counter but only because spell breaker has a trait that strips your stab when they hit you with a cc. Your stab is being stripped before the cc is being applied which results in an interrupt

 

FC is only legit counter interupted by things like

- necro corrupts

- mesmer arcane thievery (followed by a cc)

- other spellbreakers cc attacks.

 

In any other situation FC procs and you get the evades period there is no getting interrupted once the proc animation starts unless you interrupt it yourself with a weapon stow or dodge.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > You do realize that Full Counter can be interrupted right? It doesn't block the hit, it just reduces the damage from it to 0, pops some evade frames, then damages/dazes people that are close by. If the original hit had CC on it that connects before the evade frames start then FC gets interrupted.

>

> what... no thats not true lol (cant be... ive never seen this happen)

>

> The only way that happens is if a cc hits you that does not deal strike damage as in necro warhorn 4 for example which causes a daze but does not deal a strike. This removes the free stab you get on using FC

>

> Now at this point if you get hit with a 2nd cc FC will be interupted

>

> Your situation is much more rare as you need 2 cc's to hit at almost the exact some time which is incredibly hard to do.

> Even if your example is true what cc do you know is fast enough to follow up after landing a strike thats going to proc FC that will hit you before evade frames trigger (ive never EVER seen fc get interupted once its triggered unless the stability is corrupted or removed by something that does not do a strike first.

 

No, it can be interrupted. Its been done to me when I've played Spellbreaker. Takes more than one CC due to the Stability, but if there are two CCs that connect close enough together then one will strip the Stability and the other will interrupt you before the counter attack initiates. That or someone with a non strike boonrip removes the stability prior to the CC, or a for Stab to be converted to fear.

 

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> Boon Steal CC is just way too situational to prepare given they can just get another one right after 9 seconds which is less time than a weapon swap while they still and probably will have all their utility to use on you as you will run out of sustain given you would have been better off keeping your weapon swap for something else, the fact that I can overwhelm anything and anyone by just having high level of damaging avoidance is just repeating how OP spellbreaker was at release by just connecting all sustain skills together and being basically nearly untouchable as a Daredevil which those mind you still have more chance to get hit in between just because weapon evades have more of a window of opportunity, Spellbreaker just get those evades constantly and not hitting FC is not exactly something you can always do if you're not another class that doesn't rely on a single AoE.

 

I do not see what bearing this has on my statement on interrupting FC, which takes two almost simultaneous interrupts to do, which implies more than one person CCing you at the same time.

 

>> @"Shao.7236" said:

> @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> More like it's being wrongly nerfed and needs to be properly addressed.

 

I actually agree that they overnerfed the damage on FC for PvP and WvW.

 

 

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > You do realize that Full Counter can be interrupted right? It doesn't block the hit, it just reduces the damage from it to 0, pops some evade frames, then damages/dazes people that are close by. If the original hit had CC on it that connects before the evade frames start then FC gets interrupted.

> >

> > what... no thats not true lol (cant be... ive never seen this happen)

> >

> > The only way that happens is if a cc hits you that does not deal strike damage as in necro warhorn 4 for example which causes a daze but does not deal a strike. This removes the free stab you get on using FC

> >

> > Now at this point if you get hit with a 2nd cc FC will be interupted

> >

> > Your situation is much more rare as you need 2 cc's to hit at almost the exact some time which is incredibly hard to do.

> > Even if your example is true what cc do you know is fast enough to follow up after landing a strike thats going to proc FC that will hit you before evade frames trigger (ive never EVER seen fc get interupted once its triggered unless the stability is corrupted or removed by something that does not do a strike first.

>

> No, it can be interrupted. Its been done to me when I've played Spellbreaker. Takes more than one CC due to the Stability, but if there are two CCs that connect close enough together then one will strip the Stability and the other will interrupt you before the counter attack initiates. That or someone with a non strike boonrip removes the stability prior to the CC, or a for Stab to be converted to fear.

 

To be honest this has to be pretty rare... of an occurrence as i said ive never EVER seen it happen myself spell-breakers always get their full counters off once its proc'ed.

 

I forgot to add that a thief's steal with proper traits will also interrupt it because it takes the boons before applying the CC and thief will always take Stab. before any other boon.

Note im not saying you are wrong and that it cant happen i just think its super super super rare of a situation to really be considered a real problem. About as rare as being 1 shot by a scrapper, or core necormancer if not more rare i would say.

 

 

[Shao.7236]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

Got myself a little confused there, I was writting towards someone else but forgot to remove it as I reworked my statement after. I was talking about interrupting FC which is possible but the amount of risks involved is definitely not worth it due to how the following punish of Spellbreaker is gonna be extremely bad on the person doing it.

 

Like the best way I can think of doing it safely would be Staff 5 Rev with Annulment or Thief Steal.

[soul.6527]

@"Shao.7236" I am slowly reading this all and I am very confused about what you mean boon steal is conditional well yes the action stealing booms is a conditional one it’s not the same as boon removal there’s players with high enough skill cap as for example grimjack that they can keep track of a players cleansing sigil which implies that you can keep track for example of your annulment sigil which makes boon rip extremely easy and classes like theif can just interrupt your FC and the only other detail I am puzzled by is the amount of cc yes dagger 3 is a problem and I say needs to be reworked but FC cc can be proced and evaded with ease bulls charge is the only cc in the game that if your within the range threshold of the skill you can jump it and shield bash is super obvious sorry for they lack of grammar I hope you been having a good day when ever you read this ?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> Got myself a little confused there, I was writting towards someone else but forgot to remove it as I reworked my statement after. I was talking about interrupting FC which is possible but the amount of risks involved is definitely not worth it due to how the following punish of Spellbreaker is gonna be extremely bad on the person doing it.

>

> Like the best way I can think of doing it safely would be Staff 5 Rev with Annulment or Thief Steal.

 

Well if that second CC gets through you'd still have to pop a stunbreak to avoid the following burst, but it is indeed a rare occurrence. In fact it has never happened to me while Roaming in WvW or Zerging, but in FotM versus that damn Ice Elemental.

[Ferus.3165]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > > You do realize that Full Counter can be interrupted right? It doesn't block the hit, it just reduces the damage from it to 0, pops some evade frames, then damages/dazes people that are close by. If the original hit had CC on it that connects before the evade frames start then FC gets interrupted.

> > >

> > > what... no thats not true lol (cant be... ive never seen this happen)

> > >

> > > The only way that happens is if a cc hits you that does not deal strike damage as in necro warhorn 4 for example which causes a daze but does not deal a strike. This removes the free stab you get on using FC

> > >

> > > Now at this point if you get hit with a 2nd cc FC will be interupted

> > >

> > > Your situation is much more rare as you need 2 cc's to hit at almost the exact some time which is incredibly hard to do.

> > > Even if your example is true what cc do you know is fast enough to follow up after landing a strike thats going to proc FC that will hit you before evade frames trigger (ive never EVER seen fc get interupted once its triggered unless the stability is corrupted or removed by something that does not do a strike first.

> >

> > No, it can be interrupted. Its been done to me when I've played Spellbreaker. Takes more than one CC due to the Stability, but if there are two CCs that connect close enough together then one will strip the Stability and the other will interrupt you before the counter attack initiates. That or someone with a non strike boonrip removes the stability prior to the CC, or a for Stab to be converted to fear.

>

> To be honest this has to be pretty rare... of an occurrence as i said ive never EVER seen it happen myself spell-breakers always get their full counters off once its proc'ed.

>

> I forgot to add that a thief's steal with proper traits will also interrupt it because it takes the boons before applying the CC and thief will always take Stab. before any other boon.

> Note im not saying you are wrong and that it cant happen i just think its super super super rare of a situation to really be considered a real problem. About as rare as being 1 shot by a scrapper, or core necormancer if not more rare i would say.

>

>

 

it happens quite alot, thief steal is one thing but far more often necros simply corrupt your stabilty into fear and this breaks the fc aswell.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Ferus.3165" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > > > You do realize that Full Counter can be interrupted right? It doesn't block the hit, it just reduces the damage from it to 0, pops some evade frames, then damages/dazes people that are close by. If the original hit had CC on it that connects before the evade frames start then FC gets interrupted.

> > > >

> > > > what... no thats not true lol (cant be... ive never seen this happen)

> > > >

> > > > The only way that happens is if a cc hits you that does not deal strike damage as in necro warhorn 4 for example which causes a daze but does not deal a strike. This removes the free stab you get on using FC

> > > >

> > > > Now at this point if you get hit with a 2nd cc FC will be interupted

> > > >

> > > > Your situation is much more rare as you need 2 cc's to hit at almost the exact some time which is incredibly hard to do.

> > > > Even if your example is true what cc do you know is fast enough to follow up after landing a strike thats going to proc FC that will hit you before evade frames trigger (ive never EVER seen fc get interupted once its triggered unless the stability is corrupted or removed by something that does not do a strike first.

> > >

> > > No, it can be interrupted. Its been done to me when I've played Spellbreaker. Takes more than one CC due to the Stability, but if there are two CCs that connect close enough together then one will strip the Stability and the other will interrupt you before the counter attack initiates. That or someone with a non strike boonrip removes the stability prior to the CC, or a for Stab to be converted to fear.

> >

> > To be honest this has to be pretty rare... of an occurrence as i said ive never EVER seen it happen myself spell-breakers always get their full counters off once its proc'ed.

> >

> > I forgot to add that a thief's steal with proper traits will also interrupt it because it takes the boons before applying the CC and thief will always take Stab. before any other boon.

> > Note im not saying you are wrong and that it cant happen i just think its super super super rare of a situation to really be considered a real problem. About as rare as being 1 shot by a scrapper, or core necormancer if not more rare i would say.

> >

> >

>

> it happens quite alot, thief steal is one thing but far more often necros simply corrupt your stabilty into fear and this breaks the fc aswell.

 

Another is Fear Me from a warrior as they hit you with another CC.

[Lighter.5631]

full counter is fine, it does almost nothing.

magebane tether is the problem, it does way more damage for specs that speced defense.

just nerf tether damage and buff damage to strength line, so strength build still do simillar damage yet defense line wont be able to deal huge damage while being hard to kill

[Shao.7236]

> @"Lighter.5631" said:

> full counter is fine, it does almost nothing.

> magebane tether is the problem, it does way more damage for specs that speced defense.

> just nerf tether damage and buff damage to strength line, so strength build still do simillar damage yet defense line wont be able to deal huge damage while being hard to kill

 

Nerfing Tether will nerf what brings sustain and any form of damage to spellbreaker, we don't want that to happen because it's not really the problem. It's how often and accessible it is. They could actually bring back damage to FC and it wouldn't be that OP since the skill will hold more value.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

>

> Nerfing Tether will nerf what brings sustain and any form of damage to spellbreaker, we don't want that to happen because it's not really the problem. It's how often and accessible it is. They could actually bring back damage to FC and it wouldn't be that OP since the skill will hold more value.

 

Magebane has a 12s ICD and only pulses 2 stacks of might for 6s in PvP, 3 stacks for 8s in WvW. So how would you prefer to make it more inaccessible? Less Might, shorter duration, or longer ICD? Bear in mind that it only is accessible if you have adrenaline for a burst and hit with said burst.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Ferus.3165" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > > > You do realize that Full Counter can be interrupted right? It doesn't block the hit, it just reduces the damage from it to 0, pops some evade frames, then damages/dazes people that are close by. If the original hit had CC on it that connects before the evade frames start then FC gets interrupted.

> > > >

> > > > what... no thats not true lol (cant be... ive never seen this happen)

> > > >

> > > > The only way that happens is if a cc hits you that does not deal strike damage as in necro warhorn 4 for example which causes a daze but does not deal a strike. This removes the free stab you get on using FC

> > > >

> > > > Now at this point if you get hit with a 2nd cc FC will be interupted

> > > >

> > > > Your situation is much more rare as you need 2 cc's to hit at almost the exact some time which is incredibly hard to do.

> > > > Even if your example is true what cc do you know is fast enough to follow up after landing a strike thats going to proc FC that will hit you before evade frames trigger (ive never EVER seen fc get interupted once its triggered unless the stability is corrupted or removed by something that does not do a strike first.

> > >

> > > No, it can be interrupted. Its been done to me when I've played Spellbreaker. Takes more than one CC due to the Stability, but if there are two CCs that connect close enough together then one will strip the Stability and the other will interrupt you before the counter attack initiates. That or someone with a non strike boonrip removes the stability prior to the CC, or a for Stab to be converted to fear.

> >

> > To be honest this has to be pretty rare... of an occurrence as i said ive never EVER seen it happen myself spell-breakers always get their full counters off once its proc'ed.

> >

> > I forgot to add that a thief's steal with proper traits will also interrupt it because it takes the boons before applying the CC and thief will always take Stab. before any other boon.

> > Note im not saying you are wrong and that it cant happen i just think its super super super rare of a situation to really be considered a real problem. About as rare as being 1 shot by a scrapper, or core necormancer if not more rare i would say.

> >

> >

>

> it happens quite alot, thief steal is one thing but far more often necros simply corrupt your stabilty into fear and this breaks the fc aswell.

 

Both these things happen before proc'ing the FC evasive attack though which in my opinion is fair game. FC is a strong tool i dont think it needs buffs or nerfs at this point though.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"Ferus.3165" said:

> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > > > > You do realize that Full Counter can be interrupted right? It doesn't block the hit, it just reduces the damage from it to 0, pops some evade frames, then damages/dazes people that are close by. If the original hit had CC on it that connects before the evade frames start then FC gets interrupted.

> > > > >

> > > > > what... no thats not true lol (cant be... ive never seen this happen)

> > > > >

> > > > > The only way that happens is if a cc hits you that does not deal strike damage as in necro warhorn 4 for example which causes a daze but does not deal a strike. This removes the free stab you get on using FC

> > > > >

> > > > > Now at this point if you get hit with a 2nd cc FC will be interupted

> > > > >

> > > > > Your situation is much more rare as you need 2 cc's to hit at almost the exact some time which is incredibly hard to do.

> > > > > Even if your example is true what cc do you know is fast enough to follow up after landing a strike thats going to proc FC that will hit you before evade frames trigger (ive never EVER seen fc get interupted once its triggered unless the stability is corrupted or removed by something that does not do a strike first.

> > > >

> > > > No, it can be interrupted. Its been done to me when I've played Spellbreaker. Takes more than one CC due to the Stability, but if there are two CCs that connect close enough together then one will strip the Stability and the other will interrupt you before the counter attack initiates. That or someone with a non strike boonrip removes the stability prior to the CC, or a for Stab to be converted to fear.

> > >

> > > To be honest this has to be pretty rare... of an occurrence as i said ive never EVER seen it happen myself spell-breakers always get their full counters off once its proc'ed.

> > >

> > > I forgot to add that a thief's steal with proper traits will also interrupt it because it takes the boons before applying the CC and thief will always take Stab. before any other boon.

> > > Note im not saying you are wrong and that it cant happen i just think its super super super rare of a situation to really be considered a real problem. About as rare as being 1 shot by a scrapper, or core necormancer if not more rare i would say.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > it happens quite alot, thief steal is one thing but far more often necros simply corrupt your stabilty into fear and this breaks the fc aswell.

>

> Another is Fear Me from a warrior as they hit you with another CC.

 

I have to say i dont think before the recent change that anyone was running fear me not sure this is a valid complaint but yes this method would work.

Thats about as rare as running "on my mark" lol

[Shao.7236]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

> >

> > Nerfing Tether will nerf what brings sustain and any form of damage to spellbreaker, we don't want that to happen because it's not really the problem. It's how often and accessible it is. They could actually bring back damage to FC and it wouldn't be that OP since the skill will hold more value.

>

> Magebane has a 12s ICD and only pulses 2 stacks of might for 6s in PvP, 3 stacks for 8s in WvW. So how would you prefer to make it more inaccessible? Less Might, shorter duration, or longer ICD? Bear in mind that it only is accessible if you have adrenaline for a burst and hit with said burst.

 

The ICD is quite fine as it actually lines in with the 12 traited FC request, to be fair I really don't have a problem with Magebane Tether itself as it does provide sustain (Evades) on par with Riposting Shadows. FC is only the real issue as it behaves like a very offensive extra evade that is pretty much on demand anytime with such a low cooldown, actually being lower than one dodge itself, ADDING to the fact that it gets more dodges when successful is great but so often is the big offender when FC isn't just the only thing that can trigger Tether alone and earn more dodges, having one skill every 9 seconds that behaves like one with benefits is just too much in general.

 

Makes the whole ordeal very low risk yet high reward.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > @"Ferus.3165" said:

> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > > > > > You do realize that Full Counter can be interrupted right? It doesn't block the hit, it just reduces the damage from it to 0, pops some evade frames, then damages/dazes people that are close by. If the original hit had CC on it that connects before the evade frames start then FC gets interrupted.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > what... no thats not true lol (cant be... ive never seen this happen)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The only way that happens is if a cc hits you that does not deal strike damage as in necro warhorn 4 for example which causes a daze but does not deal a strike. This removes the free stab you get on using FC

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now at this point if you get hit with a 2nd cc FC will be interupted

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Your situation is much more rare as you need 2 cc's to hit at almost the exact some time which is incredibly hard to do.

> > > > > > Even if your example is true what cc do you know is fast enough to follow up after landing a strike thats going to proc FC that will hit you before evade frames trigger (ive never EVER seen fc get interupted once its triggered unless the stability is corrupted or removed by something that does not do a strike first.

> > > > >

> > > > > No, it can be interrupted. Its been done to me when I've played Spellbreaker. Takes more than one CC due to the Stability, but if there are two CCs that connect close enough together then one will strip the Stability and the other will interrupt you before the counter attack initiates. That or someone with a non strike boonrip removes the stability prior to the CC, or a for Stab to be converted to fear.

> > > >

> > > > To be honest this has to be pretty rare... of an occurrence as i said ive never EVER seen it happen myself spell-breakers always get their full counters off once its proc'ed.

> > > >

> > > > I forgot to add that a thief's steal with proper traits will also interrupt it because it takes the boons before applying the CC and thief will always take Stab. before any other boon.

> > > > Note im not saying you are wrong and that it cant happen i just think its super super super rare of a situation to really be considered a real problem. About as rare as being 1 shot by a scrapper, or core necormancer if not more rare i would say.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > it happens quite alot, thief steal is one thing but far more often necros simply corrupt your stabilty into fear and this breaks the fc aswell.

> >

> > Another is Fear Me from a warrior as they hit you with another CC.

>

> I have to say i dont think before the recent change that anyone was running fear me not sure this is a valid complaint but yes this method would work.

> Thats about as rare as running "on my mark" lol

 

For sure lol, I was just listing another way it can happen.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > >

> > > Nerfing Tether will nerf what brings sustain and any form of damage to spellbreaker, we don't want that to happen because it's not really the problem. It's how often and accessible it is. They could actually bring back damage to FC and it wouldn't be that OP since the skill will hold more value.

> >

> > Magebane has a 12s ICD and only pulses 2 stacks of might for 6s in PvP, 3 stacks for 8s in WvW. So how would you prefer to make it more inaccessible? Less Might, shorter duration, or longer ICD? Bear in mind that it only is accessible if you have adrenaline for a burst and hit with said burst.

>

> The ICD is quite fine as it actually lines in with the 12 traited FC request, to be fair I really don't have a problem with Magebane Tether itself as it does provide sustain (Evades) on par with Riposting Shadows. FC is only the real issue as it behaves like a very offensive extra evade that is pretty much on demand anytime with such a low cooldown, actually being lower than one dodge itself, ADDING to the fact that it gets more dodges when successful is great but so often is the big offender when FC isn't just the only thing that can trigger Tether alone and earn more dodges, having one skill every 9 seconds that behaves like one with benefits is just too much in general.

>

> Makes the whole ordeal very low risk yet high reward.

 

So then you'd rather FC have increased CD then?