Lilyanna.9361 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > > > @"Braile.3894" said: > > > > > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Braile.3894" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > > > Trust me, you don't want that. Optional subscription games always end up crippling their base functionality in order to push players towards the subscrition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Full, obligatory subscription is practically always a better choice than an optional one. Asking for that is just asking for a system that mixes the worst parts of both cashshop and subscription systems together. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah I get that but we are already at a place where the game is unplayable if you don't spend a kitten ton of money. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of all the ridiculous kitten spouted on the forums over the past 4 days, this statement ranks. > > > > > > > > Congrats > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Braile.3894" said: > > > > > > > > > Yeah I get that but we are already at a place where the game is unplayable if you don't spend a kitten ton of money. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You must be playing a different game. How can you say that GW2 is unplayable when the only real money one needs to spend is for convenience items, and even then those items can easily be obtained through gold -> gem conversion? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok plebs tell me how enjoyable it is to start gw2 now with buying pof and dont spend any gems on 1 bag space, 2 char slots 3, shared inventory slots, 4 bank spaces, 5 material storage, 6 living world chapters. > > > > > > > For someone who played the game for 7 years and spend some gems over the years or just used the time grinding it out its fine but for new players? no way. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your list of "must haves" is absolutely hyperbolic. I'm 3.5 years in and have never seen a need for additional bag slots,I've never once purchased a Shared Inventory Slot, and most players I know get along just fine with only 1 or two material storage expansions. Many players I know don't play more than a couple alts. > > > > > > The LW stuff is absolutely optional. Other than the story LW2 is only good for mastery points, LW3's only real use is ascended trinkets and LW4's only use are two completely optional mounts. > > > > > > > > > > > > A player could absolutely drop 40-50 bucks on this game for the expansion and a couple of convenience upgrades like a couple of bank tabs, and a storage expander and do just fine for many many months. > > > > > > Compare this to BDO's barrier for entry, ESO's DLC+"optional" sub model or FF14's Boxed expansion+monthly sub cost and you would have on crack to claim this game's price for new players is high in any way compared to other games in the genre. > > > > > > > > > > If you want to play the post 80 content the proce is higher tho. In ff14 i can just buy shb the base game and a sub and get acess to all the content, in ESO i can buy the latest chapter the base game and a sub and get acess to all the content, in wow i can just buy BFA i think and a sub and get acess to all the content. > > > > > > > > > > In gw2 i have to buy the expansion and then go and buy all the lw updates to get the entirety of the post 80 content. > > > > > > > > But then you are ignoring the additional costs those other games throw at you. Aka, the things you need to be 'optimal'. So, the other games still end up more expensive no matter how you look at it. > > > > > > Like? > > > > As someone just said for ESO. Take the cost for crafting. If you are not a crafter now you have to sub and get any additional bag space. Or, here's a better example. > > > > BDO, for you to efficiently play the game, need at least SIX, t3 pets. Over 200+ slots via bag space. A t3 fairy. At least two or three different costumes depending on how many alts you have. Value packs (unless you hoard them from the compensation mail) because you are getting taxed HARD for the things you sell. > > > > SWTOR has their subs, mounts, costumes, character extras, etc. > > > > And many sub games ask more out of you even though they are already getting constant cash from their subbers. > > > > So yes, sure, you can say that if you are a spanking brand new player you'll be putting a bit of a dime in gw2 for getting the LWS stuff. But it does not compare at all to any of the sub based games that make you not only pay for a REQUIRED (or 'optional') sub to just play their game, but then also ask for MORE MONEY to feel comfy and satisfied. Like, idk why people think that is fair and healthy when they are squeezing more money out of you at every turn. > > > > And yes, BDO does count as part of the MMO line up just like any other MMOs we have available. > > In gw2 you dont put money for salvage omatics, bag tabs, bank tabs, bank expanders amd aditional shared slots to put all the must items? > > Let alone gathering tool, land plots etc. Nope, I don't. I only dropped money on my set of tools and the copper o matic. I did not drop a dime into bag tabs, bank tabs, and bank expanders because I have almost 18 characters that fall under craft/gatherer, bag character or PvE/PvP/WvW. And lol at people spending money at the garden plots . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > > > > @"Braile.3894" said: > > > > > > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Braile.3894" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Trust me, you don't want that. Optional subscription games always end up crippling their base functionality in order to push players towards the subscrition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Full, obligatory subscription is practically always a better choice than an optional one. Asking for that is just asking for a system that mixes the worst parts of both cashshop and subscription systems together. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah I get that but we are already at a place where the game is unplayable if you don't spend a kitten ton of money. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of all the ridiculous kitten spouted on the forums over the past 4 days, this statement ranks. > > > > > > > > > Congrats > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Braile.3894" said: > > > > > > > > > > Yeah I get that but we are already at a place where the game is unplayable if you don't spend a kitten ton of money. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You must be playing a different game. How can you say that GW2 is unplayable when the only real money one needs to spend is for convenience items, and even then those items can easily be obtained through gold -> gem conversion? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok plebs tell me how enjoyable it is to start gw2 now with buying pof and dont spend any gems on 1 bag space, 2 char slots 3, shared inventory slots, 4 bank spaces, 5 material storage, 6 living world chapters. > > > > > > > > For someone who played the game for 7 years and spend some gems over the years or just used the time grinding it out its fine but for new players? no way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your list of "must haves" is absolutely hyperbolic. I'm 3.5 years in and have never seen a need for additional bag slots,I've never once purchased a Shared Inventory Slot, and most players I know get along just fine with only 1 or two material storage expansions. Many players I know don't play more than a couple alts. > > > > > > > The LW stuff is absolutely optional. Other than the story LW2 is only good for mastery points, LW3's only real use is ascended trinkets and LW4's only use are two completely optional mounts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A player could absolutely drop 40-50 bucks on this game for the expansion and a couple of convenience upgrades like a couple of bank tabs, and a storage expander and do just fine for many many months. > > > > > > > Compare this to BDO's barrier for entry, ESO's DLC+"optional" sub model or FF14's Boxed expansion+monthly sub cost and you would have on crack to claim this game's price for new players is high in any way compared to other games in the genre. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want to play the post 80 content the proce is higher tho. In ff14 i can just buy shb the base game and a sub and get acess to all the content, in ESO i can buy the latest chapter the base game and a sub and get acess to all the content, in wow i can just buy BFA i think and a sub and get acess to all the content. > > > > > > > > > > > > In gw2 i have to buy the expansion and then go and buy all the lw updates to get the entirety of the post 80 content. > > > > > > > > > > But then you are ignoring the additional costs those other games throw at you. Aka, the things you need to be 'optimal'. So, the other games still end up more expensive no matter how you look at it. > > > > > > > > Like? > > > > > > As someone just said for ESO. Take the cost for crafting. If you are not a crafter now you have to sub and get any additional bag space. Or, here's a better example. > > > > > > BDO, for you to efficiently play the game, need at least SIX, t3 pets. Over 200+ slots via bag space. A t3 fairy. At least two or three different costumes depending on how many alts you have. Value packs (unless you hoard them from the compensation mail) because you are getting taxed HARD for the things you sell. > > > > > > SWTOR has their subs, mounts, costumes, character extras, etc. > > > > > > And many sub games ask more out of you even though they are already getting constant cash from their subbers. > > > > > > So yes, sure, you can say that if you are a spanking brand new player you'll be putting a bit of a dime in gw2 for getting the LWS stuff. But it does not compare at all to any of the sub based games that make you not only pay for a REQUIRED (or 'optional') sub to just play their game, but then also ask for MORE MONEY to feel comfy and satisfied. Like, idk why people think that is fair and healthy when they are squeezing more money out of you at every turn. > > > > > > And yes, BDO does count as part of the MMO line up just like any other MMOs we have available. > > > > In gw2 you dont put money for salvage omatics, bag tabs, bank tabs, bank expanders amd aditional shared slots to put all the must items? > > > > Let alone gathering tool, land plots etc. > > Nope, I don't. I only dropped money on my set of tools and the copper o matic. I did not drop a dime into bag tabs, bank tabs, and bank expanders because I have almost 18 characters that fall under craft/gatherer, bag character or PvE/PvP/WvW. What about those character slots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrigginPaco.4178 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"FrigginPaco.4178" said: > > > @"Braile.3894" said: > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > @"Braile.3894" said: > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > Trust me, you don't want that. Optional subscription games always end up crippling their base functionality in order to push players towards the subscrition. > > > > > > > > > > > > Full, obligatory subscription is practically always a better choice than an optional one. Asking for that is just asking for a system that mixes the worst parts of both cashshop and subscription systems together. > > > > > > > > > > Yeah I get that but we are already at a place where the game is unplayable if you don't spend a kitten ton of money. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of all the ridiculous kitten spouted on the forums over the past 4 days, this statement ranks. > > > > Congrats > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > @"Braile.3894" said: > > > > > Yeah I get that but we are already at a place where the game is unplayable if you don't spend a kitten ton of money. > > > > > > > > > You must be playing a different game. How can you say that GW2 is unplayable when the only real money one needs to spend is for convenience items, and even then those items can easily be obtained through gold -> gem conversion? > > > > > > > > > > Ok plebs tell me how enjoyable it is to start gw2 now with buying pof and dont spend any gems on 1 bag space, 2 char slots 3, shared inventory slots, 4 bank spaces, 5 material storage, 6 living world chapters. > > > For someone who played the game for 7 years and spend some gems over the years or just used the time grinding it out its fine but for new players? no way. > > > > I will admit that Guild Wars 2 is not very new player friendly, particularly in the methods that it uses to promote expansion content and the stories that lead up to them. Even though it may not seem like it, there are quite a few things a new player should/needs to buy in order to get the full Guild Wars 2 experience, simply in terms of PVE, not to mention PvP or WvW. > > > > While it has been made easier with Path of Fire and Heart of Thorns being rolled together in one comprehensive package - I think a $30 price, each full season still requires about a $10 purchase each. 2, 3, and now 4, together are $30 more. Though it should be mentioned that there's a pretty good deal for the two expansions and that shouldn't be ignored. By-the-way the way "living world seasons" in any other game are typically just post expansion patches which normally come free**. > > > > And yes, I'll admit I have at least purchased 2-3 new Bag slots on multiple characters just to be able to take advantage of that extra inventory space. Not to mention I believe 3 or so Bank expansions. However, saying that's the game is unplayable without doing so is a bit of a stretch. Yes, those things necessarily make the game less of a exercise in management and give you more time to enjoy the game itself. It's their game though and I got to play by their rules, in so many words :anguished: /shrug > > > > ** the only games I can use to point this out would Final Fantasy XIV and World of Warcraft, although they are subscription-based you don't need to pay any additional amount to unlock those post-expansion stories. > > You gotta admit the money making process in metas or fractals is very annoyijg eithout that aditional bag space or salvageomatics. The game was tons more enjoyable for me when i unlocked my bag tabs, bought bags and a copper salvage omatic to do my hot meta runs. I don't know if people remember doing their first Dragon's Stand or Auric Basin meta, but those things filled up your bags so GD much you had to make sure you had 4-5 Salvage kits in your bag just to deal with the overflowing mess of salvage trash.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endless Soul.5178 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 I've spent a fair amount of money on this game, but I'll repeat what I've said before. The moment Guild Wars 2 becomes subscription based, even if it's optional, I'm out, done, and gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"FrigginPaco.4178" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"FrigginPaco.4178" said: > > > > @"Braile.3894" said: > > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > > @"Braile.3894" said: > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > Trust me, you don't want that. Optional subscription games always end up crippling their base functionality in order to push players towards the subscrition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Full, obligatory subscription is practically always a better choice than an optional one. Asking for that is just asking for a system that mixes the worst parts of both cashshop and subscription systems together. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah I get that but we are already at a place where the game is unplayable if you don't spend a kitten ton of money. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of all the ridiculous kitten spouted on the forums over the past 4 days, this statement ranks. > > > > > Congrats > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > @"Braile.3894" said: > > > > > > Yeah I get that but we are already at a place where the game is unplayable if you don't spend a kitten ton of money. > > > > > > > > > > > You must be playing a different game. How can you say that GW2 is unplayable when the only real money one needs to spend is for convenience items, and even then those items can easily be obtained through gold -> gem conversion? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok plebs tell me how enjoyable it is to start gw2 now with buying pof and dont spend any gems on 1 bag space, 2 char slots 3, shared inventory slots, 4 bank spaces, 5 material storage, 6 living world chapters. > > > > For someone who played the game for 7 years and spend some gems over the years or just used the time grinding it out its fine but for new players? no way. > > > > > > I will admit that Guild Wars 2 is not very new player friendly, particularly in the methods that it uses to promote expansion content and the stories that lead up to them. Even though it may not seem like it, there are quite a few things a new player should/needs to buy in order to get the full Guild Wars 2 experience, simply in terms of PVE, not to mention PvP or WvW. > > > > > > While it has been made easier with Path of Fire and Heart of Thorns being rolled together in one comprehensive package - I think a $30 price, each full season still requires about a $10 purchase each. 2, 3, and now 4, together are $30 more. Though it should be mentioned that there's a pretty good deal for the two expansions and that shouldn't be ignored. By-the-way the way "living world seasons" in any other game are typically just post expansion patches which normally come free**. > > > > > > And yes, I'll admit I have at least purchased 2-3 new Bag slots on multiple characters just to be able to take advantage of that extra inventory space. Not to mention I believe 3 or so Bank expansions. However, saying that's the game is unplayable without doing so is a bit of a stretch. Yes, those things necessarily make the game less of a exercise in management and give you more time to enjoy the game itself. It's their game though and I got to play by their rules, in so many words :anguished: /shrug > > > > > > ** the only games I can use to point this out would Final Fantasy XIV and World of Warcraft, although they are subscription-based you don't need to pay any additional amount to unlock those post-expansion stories. > > > > You gotta admit the money making process in metas or fractals is very annoyijg eithout that aditional bag space or salvageomatics. The game was tons more enjoyable for me when i unlocked my bag tabs, bought bags and a copper salvage omatic to do my hot meta runs. > > I don't know if people remember doing their first Dragon's Stand or Auric Basin meta, but those things filled up your bags so GD much you had to make sure you had 4-5 Salvage kits in your bag just to deal with the overflowing mess of salvage trash.... I remember in tarrir after every couple chest id stop to slavage and open because the default bag tabs and bag space was scuffed. That pause to gameplay to manage loot was annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Braile.3894" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > Trust me, you don't want that. Optional subscription games always end up crippling their base functionality in order to push players towards the subscrition. > > > > Full, obligatory subscription is practically always a better choice than an optional one. Asking for that is just asking for a system that mixes the worst parts of both cashshop and subscription systems together. > > Yeah I get that but we are already at a place where the game is unplayable if you don't spend a kitten ton of money. > That is absolute rubbish. You don't have to spend a dime beyond base game + expacs to be able to play this game to a high level of convenience. Heck even F2P accounts get alot more than most MMO give. Your just trying to over dramatise this really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanok.3027 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"zealex.9410" said: > In gw2 you dont put money for salvage omatics, bag tabs, bank tabs, bank expanders amd aditional shared slots to put all the must items? > > Let alone gathering tool, land plots etc. Salvage tools can be bought in-game (you aren't required to have the pay-per-salvage ones from the shop), storage expansion can be bought with gold->gem conversion easily, gathering tools can be bought in-game (also not required to have the endless versions), land plots are not required, etc. Sorry, but this is not a valid argument. I went on without these things even after buying both expansions and it was fine. Sure, the convenience of owning these items is fantastic (I currently have endless gathering tools and salvage-o-matics), but I choose to buy them for said convenience. They were not required. Before, if I needed more salvage kits, I would simply make Mystic Salvage Kits from free Mystic Shards and make them. Was less expensive than simply buying a ton of masters. Same with gathering tools. Just had to go and get more or stock up on plenty before going out there and gathering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miraude.2107 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 A sub like that is what drove me away from ESO in the first place. The craft bag, which is free to us btw, was the turning point. I started getting kicked, yes KICKED, from dungeons because I didn't have ESO+. I was kicked from the merchant guild I had been in for two years because I didn't have ESO+. For an 'optional' sub they made it damn apparent that they would cripple the base game just enough with an onslaught of new mats every time you turned around to make the craft bag more 'convenient' of a purchase. So I did the math. ESO I paid $15 a month for DLC that was usually just a dungeon or two. GW2 gives that to me for free just logging in and playing. ESO made it a point that if I wanted to make things, I'd need the craft bag to store all the mats. GW2 gives that to me for free as material storage. Expansion of it is a one time purchase. ESO limits you on your home instance of what I can put in it unless I pay the sub. GW2 HAS NO LIMIT. Imagine having to choose only 5 nodes for your home instance but hey if you subbed, you'd get a choice of 10! Now to the fun part. Do you know why they did an optional sub in the first place? Because Xbox and Playstation already had subs to even be online. ESO was supposed to be like WoW and be sub based. They couldn't be that way if they wanted a larger crowd with the console players. So they tailored their 'optional' sub to be something that solely became mandatory. Now the super fun part, do you want to know what it did to the player base? OH boy. It flat put a divide in the community that it became a clear sub vs btp. And the subbers became just like the WoW people. Demanding everything under the sun and oh god if they released something to the base game for free? How dare they, we pay a sub what do WE GET. Yes, I do dislike that they haven't really added any mount skins or glider skins into the game itself and they are cash shop. But they are cosmetic. It doesn't change the way I play the game. Most of the cosmetics are available to buy on the TP. So yeah, as someone who thought they'd have to be locked into a game that has you sub or is a true pay to Win game (not a waaaa the item I want is on the cash shop, a the best gear in the game is in the cash shop and I have no way to obtain it in game), I appreciate that GW2 does their model the way they do. Adding an optional sub now, would just piss a lot of people off. I'm at the max for material storage so does that mean I get 4k stored now? What about the person who never leveled it and has 250, imagine their frustration of subbing to get 500 only to find they still need to pay for the expansions? So no, please no. I don't want another game where it becomes that the optional sub isn't all that optional after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Braile.3894" said: > OK alot of people here seems to never needed to spend gems or buy a bag slot, fine. > I think you people probably will be fine with the build templates as they are announced. So why are so shouting no for an OPTIONAL sub so people like me who need more build template space and other spaces if it won't change your gameplay at all? Because the business model impacts the game design. And this business model is known to have a really negative impact on game design. > Stating once again only in a perfect world where anet won't kitten over their customers and change current stuff to make it worse without a sub. If we lived in perfect world, Anet would not monetize the kitten out of stuff like templates now, and we wouldn't be having that discussion now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braile.3894 Posted October 2, 2019 Author Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Braile.3894" said: > > OK alot of people here seems to never needed to spend gems or buy a bag slot, fine. > > I think you people probably will be fine with the build templates as they are announced. So why are so shouting no for an OPTIONAL sub so people like me who need more build template space and other spaces if it won't change your gameplay at all? > Because the business model impacts the game design. And this business model is known to have a really negative impact on game design. > > > Stating once again only in a perfect world where anet won't kitten over their customers and change current stuff to make it worse without a sub. > If we lived in perfect world, Anet would not monetize the kitten out of stuff like templates now, and we wouldn't be having that discussion now. > True Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilyanna.9361 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Braile.3894" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Braile.3894" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Trust me, you don't want that. Optional subscription games always end up crippling their base functionality in order to push players towards the subscrition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Full, obligatory subscription is practically always a better choice than an optional one. Asking for that is just asking for a system that mixes the worst parts of both cashshop and subscription systems together. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah I get that but we are already at a place where the game is unplayable if you don't spend a kitten ton of money. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of all the ridiculous kitten spouted on the forums over the past 4 days, this statement ranks. > > > > > > > > > > Congrats > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Braile.3894" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah I get that but we are already at a place where the game is unplayable if you don't spend a kitten ton of money. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You must be playing a different game. How can you say that GW2 is unplayable when the only real money one needs to spend is for convenience items, and even then those items can easily be obtained through gold -> gem conversion? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok plebs tell me how enjoyable it is to start gw2 now with buying pof and dont spend any gems on 1 bag space, 2 char slots 3, shared inventory slots, 4 bank spaces, 5 material storage, 6 living world chapters. > > > > > > > > > For someone who played the game for 7 years and spend some gems over the years or just used the time grinding it out its fine but for new players? no way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your list of "must haves" is absolutely hyperbolic. I'm 3.5 years in and have never seen a need for additional bag slots,I've never once purchased a Shared Inventory Slot, and most players I know get along just fine with only 1 or two material storage expansions. Many players I know don't play more than a couple alts. > > > > > > > > The LW stuff is absolutely optional. Other than the story LW2 is only good for mastery points, LW3's only real use is ascended trinkets and LW4's only use are two completely optional mounts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A player could absolutely drop 40-50 bucks on this game for the expansion and a couple of convenience upgrades like a couple of bank tabs, and a storage expander and do just fine for many many months. > > > > > > > > Compare this to BDO's barrier for entry, ESO's DLC+"optional" sub model or FF14's Boxed expansion+monthly sub cost and you would have on crack to claim this game's price for new players is high in any way compared to other games in the genre. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want to play the post 80 content the proce is higher tho. In ff14 i can just buy shb the base game and a sub and get acess to all the content, in ESO i can buy the latest chapter the base game and a sub and get acess to all the content, in wow i can just buy BFA i think and a sub and get acess to all the content. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In gw2 i have to buy the expansion and then go and buy all the lw updates to get the entirety of the post 80 content. > > > > > > > > > > > > But then you are ignoring the additional costs those other games throw at you. Aka, the things you need to be 'optimal'. So, the other games still end up more expensive no matter how you look at it. > > > > > > > > > > Like? > > > > > > > > As someone just said for ESO. Take the cost for crafting. If you are not a crafter now you have to sub and get any additional bag space. Or, here's a better example. > > > > > > > > BDO, for you to efficiently play the game, need at least SIX, t3 pets. Over 200+ slots via bag space. A t3 fairy. At least two or three different costumes depending on how many alts you have. Value packs (unless you hoard them from the compensation mail) because you are getting taxed HARD for the things you sell. > > > > > > > > SWTOR has their subs, mounts, costumes, character extras, etc. > > > > > > > > And many sub games ask more out of you even though they are already getting constant cash from their subbers. > > > > > > > > So yes, sure, you can say that if you are a spanking brand new player you'll be putting a bit of a dime in gw2 for getting the LWS stuff. But it does not compare at all to any of the sub based games that make you not only pay for a REQUIRED (or 'optional') sub to just play their game, but then also ask for MORE MONEY to feel comfy and satisfied. Like, idk why people think that is fair and healthy when they are squeezing more money out of you at every turn. > > > > > > > > And yes, BDO does count as part of the MMO line up just like any other MMOs we have available. > > > > > > In gw2 you dont put money for salvage omatics, bag tabs, bank tabs, bank expanders amd aditional shared slots to put all the must items? > > > > > > Let alone gathering tool, land plots etc. > > > > Nope, I don't. I only dropped money on my set of tools and the copper o matic. I did not drop a dime into bag tabs, bank tabs, and bank expanders because I have almost 18 characters that fall under craft/gatherer, bag character or PvE/PvP/WvW. > > What about those character slots? Not required. The only reason I have extra character slots is because I'm a roleplayer and I like having a plethora of characters while I do my PVE/PvP/WvW. That saved me money, not made me spend more compared to BDO where I had to spend almost 150+ in a few months alone or ESO because man apparently they just HAD to make it difficult for people that are crafters. If I wasn't a roleplayer I'd honestly would have the original amount of slots as I had started with when I first started the game. You legit do not need all of that stuff to enjoy the game. You don't compare to it's other MMOs where it is practically a requirement. People just LOVE being lazy and companies with capitalize that as such. However, Anet has been a WHOLE lot more fair of making it clear that all of this stuff we have is CONVENIENCE and not a REQUIREMENT compared to the subscription bretheren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MokahTGS.7850 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Braile.3894" said: > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > @"Braile.3894" said: > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > Trust me, you don't want that. Optional subscription games always end up crippling their base functionality in order to push players towards the subscrition. > > > > > > > > Full, obligatory subscription is practically always a better choice than an optional one. Asking for that is just asking for a system that mixes the worst parts of both cashshop and subscription systems together. > > > > > > Yeah I get that but we are already at a place where the game is unplayable if you don't spend a kitten ton of money. > > > > > > > Of all the ridiculous kitten spouted on the forums over the past 4 days, this statement ranks. > > Congrats > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > @"Braile.3894" said: > > > Yeah I get that but we are already at a place where the game is unplayable if you don't spend a kitten ton of money. > > > > > You must be playing a different game. How can you say that GW2 is unplayable when the only real money one needs to spend is for convenience items, and even then those items can easily be obtained through gold -> gem conversion? > > > > Ok plebs tell me how enjoyable it is to start gw2 now with buying pof and dont spend any gems on 1 bag space, 2 char slots 3, shared inventory slots, 4 bank spaces, 5 material storage, 6 living world chapters. > For someone who played the game for 7 years and spend some gems over the years or just used the time grinding it out its fine but for new players? no way. But even spending a small amount of gems for things you want is better than being locked into a subscription for things you don't necessarily want. With GW2 you have complete control over what you get. With ESO, you are forced to get a sub to play the game at a reasonable level. Unsubbed you are handcuffed. Buy once forever. Anything else is worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbersword.9014 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Braile.3894" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > Trust me, you don't want that. Optional subscription games always end up crippling their base functionality in order to push players towards the subscrition. > > > > Full, obligatory subscription is practically always a better choice than an optional one. Asking for that is just asking for a system that mixes the worst parts of both cashshop and subscription systems together. > > Yeah I get that but we are already at a place where the game is unplayable if you don't spend a kitten ton of money. > Nah. Game is entirely, very playable without spending a cent beyond the buy in price. I choose to sink cash for convenience items like unbreakable harvesting tools, extra bank slots, bag slots, crafting professions (thank Dwayna this one isn't per character like bags) and style items like total make over kits and costumes-I-still-wish-I-could-_still_-put-together-piecemeal. I could go for a slightly more forgiving transmutation system, since transmuting anything but level 80 arguably exotic/definitely ascended gear is an inevitable waste of cash unless I missed something, but otherwise I couldn't complain about my play experience without spending a dime on gems. The cash shop items enhance my enjoyment of the game, but they weren't required for me to enjoy the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mewcifer.5198 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Okay, but consider this: No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaklex.6308 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > @"Braile.3894" said: > > > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > > > @"Braile.3894" said: > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: ~snip~ > > > > > > In gw2 i have to buy the expansion and then go and buy all the lw updates to get the entirety of the post 80 content. > > > > FF14 and WoW's expansions are twice the price of the PoF. > > https://eu.shop.battle.net/en-gb/product/world-of-warcraft-battle-for-azeroth > > https://store.steampowered.com/app/1016870/FINAL_FANTASY_XIV_Shadowbringers/ > > https://buy.guildwars2.com/store/gw2/en_IE/html/pbPage.pathoffire/themeID.4785548100?_ga=2.244121733.1808702388.1570033276-690502037.1517416460&cid=104:5::::Global:289::: > > >An LW season is less than the price of a single monthly sub. > > And we have 3 soon to be 4 season available for purchase. A month of sub in ff14 or wow, 2 months tops is all you need to experience all the content at least once (excluding the endgame repeatable content and all the post expac content udpates) > > >In GW2s model not only is the content cheaper > > Its not > > > but I can have it whenever I log in not just if I log in while I am paying 15 bucks a month. > > You can have the new content if you log in while it relevant (every 2 to 3 months) which will likely get shorter if the statement anet made comes to pass. Also, u can farm gold in wow and pay your sub /shrug. > > > Your logic is myopic and skewed to make a point. It ignores the price. > > > > I linked you the price. > > Are those the prices at release or the current prices...if those are the prices they charged at release then this is relevant, if those are current day prices(which are discounted for age) then they're irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarrs.4831 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Supply drops are a fantastic pseudo-subscription tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > > @"Braile.3894" said: > > > > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > > > > @"Braile.3894" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > ~snip~ > > > > > > > > In gw2 i have to buy the expansion and then go and buy all the lw updates to get the entirety of the post 80 content. > > > > > > FF14 and WoW's expansions are twice the price of the PoF. > > > > https://eu.shop.battle.net/en-gb/product/world-of-warcraft-battle-for-azeroth > > > > https://store.steampowered.com/app/1016870/FINAL_FANTASY_XIV_Shadowbringers/ > > > > https://buy.guildwars2.com/store/gw2/en_IE/html/pbPage.pathoffire/themeID.4785548100?_ga=2.244121733.1808702388.1570033276-690502037.1517416460&cid=104:5::::Global:289::: > > > > >An LW season is less than the price of a single monthly sub. > > > > And we have 3 soon to be 4 season available for purchase. A month of sub in ff14 or wow, 2 months tops is all you need to experience all the content at least once (excluding the endgame repeatable content and all the post expac content udpates) > > > > >In GW2s model not only is the content cheaper > > > > Its not > > > > > but I can have it whenever I log in not just if I log in while I am paying 15 bucks a month. > > > > You can have the new content if you log in while it relevant (every 2 to 3 months) which will likely get shorter if the statement anet made comes to pass. Also, u can farm gold in wow and pay your sub /shrug. > > > > > Your logic is myopic and skewed to make a point. It ignores the price. > > > > > > > I linked you the price. > > > > > > Are those the prices at release or the current prices...if those are the prices they charged at release then this is relevant, if those are current day prices(which are discounted for age) then they're irrelevant. Pof's is also discounted. Iirc shb was 40 as well as bfa at launch. Shb came out in july iirc and was massively successful take that as you will. But i dont really see the arguement made here do post launch sales not happen? Are all the active speders the ones that pick up an expansion on launch? Bottomline is the claim was made that these mmo's expansions are twice the price of pof which was never the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > Are those the prices at release or the current prices...if those are the prices they charged at release then this is relevant, if those are current day prices(which are discounted for age) then they're irrelevant. For Shadowbringers at least it should be both. It's the current expac, released several months ago. There's no discounted price for it yet as far as i am aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokh.2695 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 You can already "subscribe" to GW2 for convenience stuff by buying a fixed amount of gems each month then purchasing whatever convenience stuff you might like. It is the system we have right now and it makes ANet more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tukaram.8256 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 The current system seem pretty good to me. If you want to buy some quality of life improvements you can. None of them are really required. When I bought PoF I paid extra for the deluxe whatever pack - it came with 4,000 gems. So, I bought those, with the expansion. I just used them last month for a PoF starter pack'ish thing (character slot, level 80 boost, bag slots -added them to the unused stack in the bank). Then the 5 pack shared inventory went on sale and I spent $35 on gems for that. So I have been playing almost for free for 7 years. The optional subscription tends to change the business model of the game. More and more changes come that make that "optional" subscription more of a requirement. I would say leave the gem store as is (which is most likely) or make it full on subscription (quite unlikely). :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 > @"Braile.3894" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > Trust me, you don't want that. Optional subscription games always end up crippling their base functionality in order to push players towards the subscrition. > > > > Full, obligatory subscription is practically always a better choice than an optional one. Asking for that is just asking for a system that mixes the worst parts of both cashshop and subscription systems together. > > Yeah I get that but we are already at a place where the game is unplayable if you don't spend a kitten ton of money. > wait what? What is it that you NEED to buy to make this game playable? I can't think of a SINGLE thing. You're confusing need with something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Braile.3894" said: > > > > Yeah I get that but we are already at a place where the game is unplayable if you don't spend a kitten ton of money. > > > > wait what? What is it that you NEED to buy to make this game playable? I can't think of a SINGLE thing. You're confusing need with something else. Nah, it's you that are understanding the meaning of the word in too narrow sense. "need" can occupy a whole space between "must" and "want". If @"Braile.3894" thinks he needs some things to feel the game is playable, then he _needs_ those things. Even if you, personally, don't. Of course, that doesn't mean everyone else would share that need, and to the same degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganathar.4956 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Anet already implemented an optional subscription system, but they never made it clear that they do have such a system. The supply drops are basically subscriptions. They want to release an episode around every 2 months in LW5. If they are successful, supply drops will end up costing about as much as a subscription per month. Do the math and you'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tukaram.8256 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 > @"Ganathar.4956" said: > Anet already implemented an optional subscription system, but they never made it clear that they do have such a system. The supply drops are basically subscriptions. They want to release an episode around every 2 months in LW5. If they are successful, supply drops will end up costing about as much as a subscription per month. Do the math and you'll see. I read about the drops, and did not see anything I really wanted...nothing worth paying money for, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blocki.4931 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 > @"Tukaram.8256" said: > > @"Ganathar.4956" said: > > Anet already implemented an optional subscription system, but they never made it clear that they do have such a system. The supply drops are basically subscriptions. They want to release an episode around every 2 months in LW5. If they are successful, supply drops will end up costing about as much as a subscription per month. Do the math and you'll see. > > I read about the drops, and did not see anything I really wanted...nothing worth paying money for, anyway. If you buy it at the start, the mount licenses and unlocks are worth more than the price you normally pay for it. However, that would require you actually caring about mount skins. I'd argue a majority of people cares about those skins, given that virtually every player you see has a bunch of them. It's just good value, as it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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