DoRi Silvia.4159 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 I would like to start this post by saying I feel a bit of sympathy for ANET regarding the recent AGGRESSIVE feedback on templates Now I know that some people will be against this but hear me out I'm a Korean player who has played a lot of Korean MMO's as well as a fair amount of western published MMO's and I May get in trouble for saying this I have a fairly good idea of what NC soft is like and I know exactly how the Korean market responds to the name NCsoft You see NC Soft has QUITE the reputation in Korea for being money hungry and plotting ideas to take as much money as they can from the players rather than focusing on content and what players actually want or they will give players what they want but monetize that. Reviewers/players are actually really surprised when they find out about Guild Wars franchise because it is nothing like any other NC games in terms of monetization and P2W aspect is absent from GW although being a branch of NC Now what am I getting at in relation to the templates? I'm sure ANET is trying to meet our demands as to what players want the most and build a community together but unfortunately there is a BIGGER boss they must get ideas through and this boss has $ $ signs in their eyes, if there ain't revenue then it is not worth their time What I am getting at is, this is the nature of NC SOFT. They are HUNGRY for money ALWAYS, KOREANS avoid NC games because of this and they have quite the reputation as mentioned above, but unfortunately this is how MOST games in Korea work. P2W and Microtransaction in game cash grab is the main business model across most MMO's and NC is no different if not even more than other companies ( actually no NEXON being the worst imo) From here on is MY thoughts and speculation, I believe that NC Soft has got to do with a lot of what has been going on in the game of Guild Wars 2 and the development and monetization of recent/future releases. They will be pressuring ANET REAL HARD to work in terms of their way of making money because it works for them, I would also say that they are being pressured to make more money in any way they can because they aren't making enough in their eyes Im sure ANET cannot and will not say anything about this as it is a very touchy subject but I just wanted to say i feel for these guys because I know how Koreans can be when it comes to money and knowing what NC is like over in the korean market I can speculate that they will be pressuring ANET at this time of hardship to squeeze out $$$ from players Im not trying to be the white knight for ANET nor am I saying that the negative feedback is a bad thing but we could maybe minus all the aggression from the feedback, i'm sure ANET is already copping all the posts and feedback I could also be completely wrong and it could be ANET's idea to sell build templates but I cannot help but feel that NC had a big plot in this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasculio.2914 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"DoRi Silvia.4159" said: > Im sure ANET cannot and will not say anything about this as it is a very touchy subject but I just wanted to say i feel for these guys because I know how Koreans can be when it comes to money and knowing what NC is like over in the korean market I can speculate that they will be pressuring ANET at this time of hardship to squeeze out $$$ from players And thus, what could we do about it? The best we can do is speak as loudly as possible against this, so ArenaNet can show NC Soft how much of an outcry their decision has caused and how said outcry could hurt more than help the game on the long run. So those who are complaining about this are actually doing a favor to those who are just saying "everything is fine" and complaining about the "negativity". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mewcifer.5198 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 It's easy to point to the boogeyman that is NCsoft. but honestly it isn't needed here. Build templates are pure convenience, they are not necessary for playing the game, most people probably won't even use more than a couple and we are given a couple for free. Charging for them is perfectly fine. The game needs funding somehow, and it has always been that most convenience items are gem store. People will get over this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoRi Silvia.4159 Posted October 2, 2019 Author Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Erasculio.2914" said: > > @"DoRi Silvia.4159" said: > > Im sure ANET cannot and will not say anything about this as it is a very touchy subject but I just wanted to say i feel for these guys because I know how Koreans can be when it comes to money and knowing what NC is like over in the korean market I can speculate that they will be pressuring ANET at this time of hardship to squeeze out $$$ from players > > And thus, what could we do about it? > > The best we can do is speak as loudly as possible against this, so ArenaNet can show NC Soft how much of an outcry their decision has caused and how said outcry could hurt more than help the game on the long run. > > So those who are complaining about this are actually doing a favor to those who are just saying "everything is fine" and complaining about the "negativity". yes exactly, voicing out loud is pretty much the only thing we can do as players in this community But unfortunately I would say NC would not even bat an eye to an outcry from the western market Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Pretty much nothing to do with ncsoft. The community even suggested doing exacltly this in every build template suggestion thread for the last few years. Theres little doubt this was alwats goingto be the planned way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shikaru.7618 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 The way you actually voice your disatisfaction is to not open your wallet but people dont have enough self control to do that unfortunately. If they make $0 off build templates and instead have people leave the game instead, they would rethink their monetization model really quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyShroud.2865 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Am i the only one that don't care about the template? I mean is a convenient feature, they charging for it. If you don't want to pay, you can use the arcdps template right? Or unless you can't use arcdps template anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Will threads like this also be there when they make the maintenance mode blog post? (in however many years that happens) Purely hypothetical question. I personally didnt expect so many ppl to be surprised by the fact that they are paid though i should have seen it considering we had a free and unlimited player made tool. Im full on with the community about the technical aspecs of the system. Namely, the fact that theres a cap of 6 character bount templates. Devs never deserve any hostility but the company as a whole deserve all the feedback about this aspect imo. The "Could be worse" excuse is never a good one imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoRi Silvia.4159 Posted October 2, 2019 Author Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > Am i the only one that don't care about the template? I mean is a convenient feature, they charging for it. If you don't want to pay, you can use the arcdps template right? Or unless you can't use arcdps template anymore? Im sure I have read that deltaconnect aka arcdps will not support the templates anymore once ANET releases their own version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thornwolf.9721 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 The community asked for this, and to be done in this form. Just as they have other things Im sure will be coming, The players are the ones saying "It's ok take more money." And telling them monetization is ok, its not everyone but there is a pretty and surprisingly large portion of players who are 100% for this and even want an optional sub to play just like ESO. This has been a thing for three years now and it just gets worse, people are conditioned that a game must be expensive and must cost money to play. They believe anything else is merely not a game, you can hear these people hell ONE of those new threads is an optional subscription thread. So no Im not sure it was *Just* Ncsoft but a combination of NC and the minority that screams the loudest. Now the majority is turning their head and is getting pissed off because, this is exactly why they came to guild wars in the first place to GET AWAY FROM THIS CRAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Nah, mature people understand games cost money to run and devrlop, and are willing to pay if they are entertained by a product. Unfortunately there is a certain modern breed of player that literally act like parasites in the truest sense of the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Erasculio.2914" said: > > @"DoRi Silvia.4159" said: > > Im sure ANET cannot and will not say anything about this as it is a very touchy subject but I just wanted to say i feel for these guys because I know how Koreans can be when it comes to money and knowing what NC is like over in the korean market I can speculate that they will be pressuring ANET at this time of hardship to squeeze out $$$ from players > > And thus, what could we do about it? > > The best we can do is speak as loudly as possible against this, so ArenaNet can show NC Soft how much of an outcry their decision has caused and how said outcry could hurt more than help the game on the long run. > > So those who are complaining about this are actually doing a favor to those who are just saying "everything is fine" and complaining about the "negativity". Really now... making a lot of noise will show them huh? Couple years ago Anet monetized Mount Skins in a way that made this community go full nuke. One week later you couldn't do a bounty train and see a single default mount skin. Sorry... making noise does exactly nothing. This community has a long proud history of pitching a fit and then letting it go. If you don't like it, vote with your wallet. That's the only thing NCSoft will listen to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Erasculio.2914" said: > And thus, what could we do about it? > > The best we can do is speak as loudly as possible against this, so ArenaNet can show NC Soft how much of an outcry their decision has caused And then NCsoft could decide to cancel further development of the game. _Great_ idea. ;) @"DoRi Silvia.4159", thank you for the insight! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpyderArachnid.5619 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Mewcifer.5198" said:Charging for them is perfectly fine. The game needs funding somehow, and it has always been that most convenience items are gem store. People will get over this. Always dislike when people keep using this excuse "The game needs funding somehow". Really? The thousands of items in the Gem Store, along with expansions, is not enough funding for them already? Do we really have to monetize every single feature of the game because "Anet needs funding somehow"? There is a point when that "funding" crosses a line, especially when there is already thousands of things already giving them funding as it is. Anet is not some poor homeless beggar, living off our scraps. Saying "They need funding somehow" makes them sound like they are struggling and desperate. We can have features that don't require us to pay money for them all the time. If this was the case, then this would truly be an NCSoft game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firebeard.1746 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"Erasculio.2914" said: > > > @"DoRi Silvia.4159" said: > > > Im sure ANET cannot and will not say anything about this as it is a very touchy subject but I just wanted to say i feel for these guys because I know how Koreans can be when it comes to money and knowing what NC is like over in the korean market I can speculate that they will be pressuring ANET at this time of hardship to squeeze out $$$ from players > > > > And thus, what could we do about it? > > > > The best we can do is speak as loudly as possible against this, so ArenaNet can show NC Soft how much of an outcry their decision has caused and how said outcry could hurt more than help the game on the long run. > > > > So those who are complaining about this are actually doing a favor to those who are just saying "everything is fine" and complaining about the "negativity". > > Really now... making a lot of noise will show them huh? > > Couple years ago Anet monetized Mount Skins in a way that made this community go full nuke. > One week later you couldn't do a bounty train and see a single default mount skin. > > Sorry... making noise does exactly nothing. This community has a long proud history of pitching a fit and then letting it go. > If you don't like it, vote with your wallet. > That's the only thing NCSoft will listen to. If op is correct, it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. If it doesn't make enough money, ncsoft will step in and fire more people/throw the game into maintenance mode. If ncsoft is really aiming to turn gw2 into a pay 2 win buy to play game like so many games in the market, throwing more money at them would just embolden them. That said, this isn't pay 2 win and doesn't even come close to the crap i've seen in other games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babana.7521 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 You do know GW2 template is already in the game right??? if you don't, go to PvP and check out the Anet's prebuild template. they just take something from the game and sell it to you. not that its not theirs to sell but why are they doing this to the players who already happily using arcdps? Don't remove the arcdps templates. the people who wants to buy the templates is going to buy it regardless, people who aren't going to buy it, like myself isn't going to buy it, its a simple solution, why make it such a fuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > If op is correct, it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. If it doesn't make enough money, ncsoft will step in and fire more people/throw the game into maintenance mode. This kind of drama-mongering serves no one. People don't buy mount skins to save the company they buy them because they like them. If you don't like a product or it's pricing, it's on you to not purchase it. You simply do not open your wallet. You don't buy a 20 dollar hamburger and say "if I don't pay 20 dollars for this hamburger, this place selling them will shut down." You either buy it because you feel the product is worth the price or you go across the street and buy a 5 dollar hamburger until the 20 dollar hamburger lowers it's price to a point you see it as value. It's called being a responsible consumer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mewcifer.5198 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > Nah, mature people understand games cost money to run and devrlop, and are willing to pay if they are entertained by a product. Unfortunately there is a certain modern breed of player that literally act like parasites in the truest sense of the word. > > > > > > This is not that, and you know it. Buying expansions is one thing but paying for something you have no control over whether you have or not is another, they are making UI changes for this and removing the gear seperation between modes as well for this from what I hear. Its being enforced so even if I don't care about it as a item, and if I don't want it I still have to deal with the fallout. Either way we all are effected by this change, now if It was something I could opt into or not Id be more than willing to allow it to slide. > > Has nothing to do with maturity, this is a dangerous glimpse as to what could happen. ESO does this kinda kitten, and they break the game apart to a basic level you have to buy new zone + dungeons + whatever else unless you pay the "Optional" sub. This is the direction this could head, not saying it will but telling them any monetization is ok is how games go to 100% pay to win. That has nothing to do with maturity, if you're advocating that that you are either willfully ignorant or are simply not intelligent to note the ramifications of what this action can and might cause. There was never gear separation between game modes. Whatever you have equipped would be what you had equipped. Only builds were separate, which is fine because we are getting free templates that will work fine for people to still have their PvE and WvW builds separated. You can still change your gear and traits manually whenever you want, the templates are 100% convenience. Just like the salvage-o-matics and the boss portal device. Stop making wild predictions and doomsaying. This new addition to the gem store is not different from how the gem store has ALWAYS been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 > @"Randulf.7614" said: > Pretty much nothing to do with ncsoft. The community even suggested doing exacltly this in every build template suggestion thread for the last few years. Theres little doubt this was alwats goingto be the planned way The community didn't suggest it. There might have been individual players that did, at best - and those i personally saw never mentioned buying individual slots - just an one-time purchase of the whole system (and never said they were willing to purchase it at any price, no matter how ridiculous). You could as well say that community suggested Anet should raise level cap and introduce new gear tier every half a year or so. > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > Am i the only one that don't care about the template? I mean is a convenient feature, they charging for it. If you don't want to pay, you can use the arcdps template right? Or unless you can't use arcdps template anymore? You can't. Anet made sure arc templates will no longer be allowed once they release their own, paid, build templates. So, no, there will be no alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyShroud.2865 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 > @"DoRi Silvia.4159" said: > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > Am i the only one that don't care about the template? I mean is a convenient feature, they charging for it. If you don't want to pay, you can use the arcdps template right? Or unless you can't use arcdps template anymore? > > Im sure I have read that deltaconnect aka arcdps will not support the templates anymore once ANET releases their own version That sucks, no wonder some people are pissed. The people who do multiple modes for sure will be unhappy. From a free unlimited option to a limited option and you need to pay to access more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualkenny.9817 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 If it were that much of a cash grab, they would have given only 1 or 0 free templates and 0 free gear templates, and made it a p2w element. They are giving 2 more build slots (per char) and 1 more gear slot for free, which is all that the vast majority of their player base might need. (I have played Korean-origin mmos before, too) I personally had no idea there were even any players using 10+builds per char - I wonder if Anet knew there was such a thing. Yknow, they make purchased skins char bound in some Korean games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 > @"SpyderArachnid.5619" said: > > @"Mewcifer.5198" said:Charging for them is perfectly fine. The game needs funding somehow, and it has always been that most convenience items are gem store. People will get over this. > > Always dislike when people keep using this excuse "The game needs funding somehow". Really? The thousands of items in the Gem Store, along with expansions, is not enough funding for them already? Do we really have to monetize every single feature of the game because "Anet needs funding somehow"? Considering many of the items are not consumables, the answer to that is pretty much yes. Also, to be fair .. you don't NEED to use your money to buy those features either (seems that people conveniently forget they can buy gems with gold when it favours their argument to do so) So instead of making Anet look like they always have their hands in your wallets for every feature they offer in the GS, maybe take a second to have a more objective view of how **reasonably** Anet offers things to players to understand how this business works. > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > Has nothing to do with maturity, this is a dangerous glimpse as to what could happen. Is that a serious comment? So Anet selling features on the GS (like they have done for the last 7 years) is some dangerous precedent? This is the kind of dishonesty that really kills whatever legit concerns people have for how this feature is offered. If Anet wanted to do what you are suggesting, there is absolutely nothing that would have stopped doing so in the last 7 years ... **except for their own restraint**. So maybe think about that before you plant the conspiracy theory seed that Anet has some nefarious plan to impose questionable business practices on it's customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Randulf.7614" said: > > Pretty much nothing to do with ncsoft. The community even suggested doing exacltly this in every build template suggestion thread for the last few years. Theres little doubt this was alwats goingto be the planned way > The community didn't suggest it. There might have been individual players that did, at best - and those i personally saw never mentioned buying individual slots - just an one-time purchase of the whole system (and never said they were willing to purchase it at any price, no matter how ridiculous). > > You could as well say that community suggested Anet should raise level cap and introduce new gear tier every half a year or so. > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > Am i the only one that don't care about the template? I mean is a convenient feature, they charging for it. If you don't want to pay, you can use the arcdps template right? Or unless you can't use arcdps template anymore? > You can't. Anet made sure arc templates will no longer be allowed once they release their own, paid, build templates. So, no, there will be no alternative. > > > I saw plenty of threads suggesting and expecting monetised slots in this and the old forum over the years. I don't recall much objection to the idea - quite the opposite. I think the issue is that as time went on, a section of the playerbase has got used to the 3rd party tool and at this point it became ingrained for them and that's a finger pointed both at them (we always knew it wouldn't be around forever as did the developer of it who was quite candid on that point) and Anet for allowing it whilst not really getting their act together to make this a reality sooner - esp given the murmurings of it being developed back in 2013/2014. The raising of level cap/gear tier isn't the same analogy given those were ruled out long ago whilst templates were not and templates are a feature that actually should be in the game where as putting up the cap/tier are not. Given the heavy level of suggestions about this feature over 7 years, perhaps the most appropriate comment I've seen is at the end of this article https://massivelyop.com/2019/10/02/heres-why-the-guild-wars-2-community-is-grumpy-over-build-templates/ _“I’m sorry for the developers that put a great effort into finally making this happen, only for it to turn into such an accumulation of negativity,” wrote one player. “I can’t help but think that if we had a more open discussion about this prior development, a lot more people could be looking forward to this today. **But we didn’t, because that’s not how Anet operates**, and that, frankly, is a shame. Both sides could have benefited from this a lot.”_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firebeard.1746 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > If op is correct, it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. If it doesn't make enough money, ncsoft will step in and fire more people/throw the game into maintenance mode. > This kind of drama-mongering serves no one. People don't buy mount skins to save the company they buy them because they like them. > If you don't like a product or it's pricing, it's on you to not purchase it. You simply do not open your wallet. > You don't buy a 20 dollar hamburger and say "if I don't pay 20 dollars for this hamburger, this place selling them will shut down." You either buy it because you feel the product is worth the price or you go across the street and buy a 5 dollar hamburger until the 20 dollar hamburger lowers it's price to a point you see it as value. > It's called being a responsible consumer. Well if no one does buy that 20 dollar hamburger, that joint will shut down. The reality though is Guild wars 2 is a persistent service many of us use, and it would be irresponsible to believe the one time transaction will keep the lights on. I think that much of the player base doesn't realize this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > Well if no one does buy that 20 dollar hamburger, that joint will shut down. Or they will lower the price of their burgers Or they will make enough money on onion rings Or they will make enough on 20 dollar burgers that the niche audience who buys them will keep them open >The reality though is Guild wars 2 is a persistent service many of us use, and it would be irresponsible to believe the one time transaction will keep the lights on. I think that much of the player base doesn't realize this. And yet you yourself said.... >If it doesn't make enough money, ncsoft will step in and fire more people/throw the game into maintenance mode. But hey better to backpeddal your fearmongering than to stick with it. Kudos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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