Randulf.7614 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > @"Randulf.7614" said: > > And how will it make money if it scares off players? > > > > Im all for suggestions (although given the community suggested gem store build templates and then fussed when we got them, maybe we shouldnt be suggesting...), but im utterly convinced this would not be a positive for the game 7 years in. Anet have rejected the idea before and they are in a better position to understand costs and revenue than we are to make that call. > > > > Optional is a optional. Doesnt matter. Perception will override that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > They should keep cranking out supply requisition drops that rotate contents and theme. > > It is a good fake subscription. I like those, but they need to be kept sparse, otherwise players will eventually reject them. As they are, I suspect the uptake is decent. Even I buy them and my in game spend is otherwise stopped. And that brings in my other point. They want more revenue, they need to deliver more quality and fairly across modes. Player spending s driven by satisfaction. Throwing out a random optional sub is not the answer. Using the existing revenue to drive quality and retain players will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramex.1506 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > @"Randulf.7614" said: > > And how will it make money if it scares off players? > > > > Im all for suggestions (although given the community suggested gem store build templates and then fussed when we got them, maybe we shouldnt be suggesting...), but im utterly convinced this would not be a positive for the game 7 years in. Anet have rejected the idea before and they are in a better position to understand costs and revenue than we are to make that call. > > > > Optional is a optional. So was build template and look how the community reacted, let me put this quote here "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 > @"Ultramex.1506" said: > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > @"Randulf.7614" said: > > > And how will it make money if it scares off players? > > > > > > Im all for suggestions (although given the community suggested gem store build templates and then fussed when we got them, maybe we shouldnt be suggesting...), but im utterly convinced this would not be a positive for the game 7 years in. Anet have rejected the idea before and they are in a better position to understand costs and revenue than we are to make that call. > > > > > > > Optional is a optional. > > So was build template and look how the community reacted, let me put this quote here "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." Build templates are just fine. We should be grateful the devs are implementing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 > @"Randulf.7614" said: > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > They should keep cranking out supply requisition drops that rotate contents and theme. > > > > It is a good fake subscription. > > > I like those, but they need to be kept sparse, otherwise players will eventually reject them. As they are, I suspect the uptake is decent. Even I buy them and my in game spend is otherwise stopped. > > And that brings in my other point. They want more revenue, they need to deliver more quality and fairly across modes. Player spending s driven by satisfaction. Throwing out a random optional sub is not the answer. Using the existing revenue to drive quality and retain players will. Maybe some want an option sub. Maybe it will help produce things with more “quality and more “fairly” for all modes. You are well within your right to spend money on something you deem worthy, and an optional sub wouldn’t be mandatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crepuscular.9047 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 I'm not against games with subscription model but Guild Wars from the inception had always targeted a different demographic of gamers, those who dont want a subscription model the game and the company had also come too long and far down the track with the model, any sudden shift will cause mass chaos and split the community Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 > @"crepuscular.9047" said: > I'm not against games with subscription model > > but Guild Wars from the inception had always targeted a different demographic of gamers, those who dont want a subscription model > > the game and the company had also come too long and far down the track with the model, any sudden shift will cause mass chaos and split the community Again, the key word here is “optional”. Those that don’t like it don’t have to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > @"crepuscular.9047" said: > > I'm not against games with subscription model > > > > but Guild Wars from the inception had always targeted a different demographic of gamers, those who dont want a subscription model > > > > the game and the company had also come too long and far down the track with the model, any sudden shift will cause mass chaos and split the community > > Again, the key word here is “optional”. Those that don’t like it don’t have to use it. The problem is there aren't any optional subscription models out there that don't heavily penalize players who do not have the sub. Maybe not at the start, but it always seems to end up that way. So again, no to any official optional subscription. You want one? There's already a way to do that. Open your wallet on the 1st of each month and buy $20 worth of gems. Or whatever you want to give them. There. There's your optional subscription. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crepuscular.9047 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > @"crepuscular.9047" said: > > I'm not against games with subscription model > > > > but Guild Wars from the inception had always targeted a different demographic of gamers, those who dont want a subscription model > > > > the game and the company had also come too long and far down the track with the model, any sudden shift will cause mass chaos and split the community > > Again, the key word here is “optional”. Those that don’t like it don’t have to use it. Even if optional, as long as the non-subscribers have any sense of disadvantage in any form will create a racket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josiah.2967 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 The day there is a subscription is the day we all move back to WOW. Gem store combined with subscription is a hard NO for us. We pay more now then we would in WOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephire.8049 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Hard no. Even if it's optional, it still creates two tiers of players: those who can pay for it monthly and those who can't. To entice people to pay monthly, they would need to offer certain conveniences or high discounts which means they would have to intentionally deny such things to people who not only don't buy gems with money but those who spend money but perhaps not monthly. GW2 was designed so everyone was pretty much equal and the game was accessible regardless of your monthly income. Yes people who can afford to buy gems with money can buy more cosmetics or convenience items (or even gold!) than those who can't, but it's still possible to buy those items with gold. Adding a sub goes against that design because suddenly only those able or willing to pay monthly get certain things. That's what the deluxe and ultimate editions of HoT and PoF were for, and even then you can upgrade to the deluxe version of both using gems. The supply drops look to be Anet's version of a sub, and they're designed pretty well. They could maybe tweaked a bit but everything in it is accessible to everyone eventually and you can buy it using gems. At this point, if an MMO requires a subscription, I'm out. I've played subscription MMOs enough to have no interest feeling forced to play it or deal with being hamstrung because the game is designed to deny major QoL features unless someone pays money (or worse, pays money monthly). Been playing GW2 since closed beta and if they added a sub, optional or otherwise, I'd be out. I will tolerate ads to buy things/sub to mobile games. I will not tolerate them in a B2P game (the base of GW2 is F2P, but you still need to buy the expansions) from a AAA publisher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeG.6389 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 This is one of those that pop up every few days, it seems. Do a search before trying to reinvent the wheel. Remember: in almost all cases, whenever you have a bright idea, somebody will have gotten there way before you. On topic: A sub fee is in direct contradiction of Anet's business model. You know, the one they've been maintaining for the last 14 years. Forget it already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 > @"Josiah.2967" said: > The day there is a subscription is the day we all move back to WOW. Gem store combined with subscription is a hard NO for us. We pay more now then we would in WOW. What do you have to pay to play gw2 that is more than wow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante.1508 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Its bad enough in ESO we don't need it here... > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > @"crepuscular.9047" said: > > I'm not against games with subscription model > > > > but Guild Wars from the inception had always targeted a different demographic of gamers, those who dont want a subscription model > > > > the game and the company had also come too long and far down the track with the model, any sudden shift will cause mass chaos and split the community > > Again, the key word here is “optional”. Those that don’t like it don’t have to use it. These things are never optional even if the devs say it is.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poormany.4507 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > @"crepuscular.9047" said: > > I'm not against games with subscription model > > > > but Guild Wars from the inception had always targeted a different demographic of gamers, those who dont want a subscription model > > > > the game and the company had also come too long and far down the track with the model, any sudden shift will cause mass chaos and split the community > > Again, the key word here is “optional”. Those that don’t like it don’t have to use it. Most sub systems in MMOs I've seen end up eventually locking non-sub players out of over half of the content because its "sub/member only", so those who don't want to spend money each month and be forced to play the game every day to get their money's worth (i.e. casual players) have little to do in game and quit as soon as they finish the non-sub content. Big NO from me to any sub system in GW2 since the series was strictly advertised as non-sub from day 1 of GW1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menadena.7482 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 That would be a no. Every 'optional' subscription game I have seen did so at the expense of those that opted not to pay monthly. Two of my accounts I bought before the game went FTP (and were not the cheepest option to get the game either). I bought both expansions. I long ago lost count how many gems I have bought. The day this game has a sub of any sort s the day I leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Nobody forces you when something is optional folks. But I’m sure you’d all love the increased content and updates more revenue provides lol Seems like some don’t want Anet to perform better as a company, yet y’all want Anet to produce all this stuff for you instead. Strange way of thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 I dont mind any kind of subs esp subs that would otherwise take stuff you buy rn like storage expanders, bad tabs etc and auto enable them for monthly fee across your acount. But ehh ive suggested a gem/living world unlock jecause it would make the game ALOT more accessible to new players and wouldnt be in any way be p2w. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 If so many players would take advantage of an _optional_ subscription, what makes one think those same players aren't already _optionally_ purchasing Gems monthly? I mean, it's _optional_, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoRi Silvia.4159 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 > @"Swagger.1459" said: > Nobody forces you when something is optional folks. But I’m sure you’d all love the increased content and updates more revenue provides lol > > Seems like some don’t want Anet to perform better as a company, yet y’all want Anet to produce all this stuff for you instead. Strange way of thinking. No way in hell anyone thinks that........ hopefully Just saying it's too risky for anet to make such a move right now which could cost a big chunk of players leaving - some who are regular gem buying players (like my self) I'm sure anet knows that too , they would get hit pretty harsh trying to pull this off Its a bit late in the game to add these things ya know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 > @"Swagger.1459" said: > Nobody forces you when something is optional folks. But I’m sure you’d all love the increased content and updates more revenue provides lol > > Seems like some don’t want Anet to perform better as a company, yet y’all want Anet to produce all this stuff for you instead. Strange way of thinking. Since when does how a company earns its money equate to performing better as a company and/or producing content? You don't seem to be getting what we are saying. We are saying that we can't think of any time when an optional sub didn't turn out badly for the players who choose not to or worse can't afford the optional sub. Because the only way to get people to pay monthly for something is to put something that players want locked behind that paywall. And that's what many of us are saying that we don't like. That we've seen it way too often end up with the players who don't sub getting the short end of the stick and the game gets a hard split between those who have the optional sub and those who do not. We've yet to find an MMO where that doesn't happen. If you know of one, please speak up. For me, I wouldn't do an optional sub (I wouldn't do a required sub either). I would feel too pressured that I had to play GW2 for several hours each month to make the sub worth it and I don't know in advance which months I will and will not be playing often. And I don't want to feel forced to play the game. I'm not afraid to buy gems with real money when I want something from the gem store. Or want more gold. Those games with optional subs in them might be great games with great content being added to the game, but that doesn't change my opinion on optional subs or make me want to play them. Because those games have such a deep divide between what you can and can't do with and without the sub. And that doesn't get into my opinion on subs to games in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Nik.2518 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 I buy gems monthly because I want to support the game (and because I love QoL gem store stuff ;) ). However, I would probably stop playing if any subscriptions are introduced. ArenaNet already has done enough for monetisation of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexxxDelta.1806 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 > @"Swagger.1459" said: > I’m guaranteed to find huge and expensive lists of things that player want If I were to go through posting history of players. This game needs to make money, and I believe it has been the 2nd lowest earner in the NCSOFT family consistently. > > When you look at pace of development, recent layoffs, other projects being shelved... you have to consider this... If GW2 was generating more revenue, then those things would most likely not have happen. Money is vital and needs of the game changes, so consider that when we discuss optional ways for the team to perform better overall, while boosting the QoL for players. > > Edit- For context... > > https://massivelyop.com/2019/08/03/ncsoft-q2-2019-financials-guild-wars-2-may-be-eyeing-a-mobile-version-again/ They are the ones who chose the no sub model and it was one of the main selling points of this game. If the model is unsustainable, they should just let it die instead of pulling a bait and switch. A switch that would be having the same result (game dying). Not even Anet is that disconnected with their audience. And even if they ever were, I'm sure the response to the gazillion threads about it serves as a reminder.> @"Swagger.1459" said: > Nobody forces you when something is optional folks. But I’m sure you’d all love the increased content and updates more revenue provides lol > > Seems like some don’t want Anet to perform better as a company, yet y’all want Anet to produce all this stuff for you instead. Strange way of thinking. Optional subs are never truly optional but I'm sure you know that already. Actually yes, I don't give two kittens how Anet performs as a company and I only care about the service I'm receiving. And if they can't keep providing it in the same manner, I will just move on. It's called being a consumer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigur.9453 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 while i would prefer a sub model anytime over current system, you still have the problem that the game is heavely designed around the gemstore. Making most of the sub fee advantages useless. SO you will just end up paying more for minimal gain. not that great of a deal from a consumer perspective. To add to one of OPs points: More revenue =/= more money for developing THIS game. WE should already know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Despond.2174 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 I mean we're all free here to discuss ideas and thoughts but I hope you know this will never happen in GW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now