Why Guardians Have the lowest base health?

[Largo Cifer.3495]

I mean, look at what level Holo is on right now. The damage it puts out with leadership runes and demolisher amulet in pvp is clear proof that other classes have the same sustain and damage like guardians but more hp

[Crab Fear.1624]

Guardian with 19k health and demo ammy

[KrHome.1920]

Guardians have the lowest base health because they have plenty of unlimited damage mitigation (blocks) and a lot of healing. In contrast necromancers have no unlimited damage mitigation but have the health and life force to soak up damage. Thieves have a low health pool because they are as evasive as guardians have block access.

 

That's basic game design and it makes no sense at all to throw in balance issues at this point (holo has so much more sustain mimimi). You don't fix imbalances through basic game design changes - like raise the guardian health pool because holo is strong. That will just mess up a thousand other things. You adjust skills and traits of the holosmith!

 

Side Note: Even necromancers can not afford to go to pvp with base health and base life force. If they pick demolisher they have to pick soul reaping as well (more life force). If you don't pick soul reaping or vitality gear on necro you won't get far.

[SeikeNz.3526]

> @"Sleepwalker.1398" said:

> > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > > > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > > guardians already have alot of heals, blocks and retaliation and you want high health on top of all that?

> > > >

> > > > well maybe more hp than a deadeye? also 90% of the classes has access to it

> > >

> > > not to guardians level they don't. that's ike saying necro isn't condi focused because other classes have condi's

> >

> > yes they do, guardians only have better heals

>

> So what exactly do you want to play if you had high hp guard? dps? support? condi?

 

let's say that i put a diviner amulet+gs on a guardian, what i have left? 11k hp, bad heals, an aegis block every 30s, 1900 of defense

 

warriors gonna one shot you, burst mesmers, holos, soulbeasts

[otto.5684]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > aren't then supposed to be tank?

>

> From what I remember, in beta Guardian had the same health tier as warrior. But it was deemed op due to guardians access to a multitude of blocks, aegis and boons in general. So they were nerfed to the lowest tier.

 

Good old days lol. Damage avoidance, mobility or CC guardian is pretty terrible (except FB on avoidance). Only area from the original design where guardian still holds up is healing. And since FB adds a ton of blocks (and CC if using axe) it is the only viable build, and mostly as support.

 

At this point HP pools is nothing more than an ancient system that no longer fits in the game. But since It requires work to change it will never happen, cuz Anet only does easy crap and they still half bake it most of the time.

[Ashimmu.4219]

People who says Guardian have LOTS of heals/blocks - did you actually played Guardian?

If you sacrifice 2 utility slots for meditation skills (which heals ~2000hp and have 30sec cooldown) you will find yourself with basic healing skill and rare aegis (it blocks 1 (ONE!) hit).

But one thing that most people misses - lack of mobility which can be translated into lack of tank (just remember warrior - he can tank by moving).

I feel the intent of lowest HP was to make all classes 'the same' in term of tanking - which is bulshit!

Guard is supposed to be most tankier unit in GW.

Lowest also HP means he can't use certain amulets - which limits its capabilities.

I resume - Guardian NEEDS that HP to make this class playable.

Now it's underperforming.

 

[Aza.2105]

> @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > > aren't then supposed to be tank?

> >

> > From what I remember, in beta Guardian had the same health tier as warrior. But it was deemed op due to guardians access to a **multitude of blocks, aegis and boons in general**. So they were nerfed to the lowest tier.

>

> isn't that what a warrior/holo/ranger are now?

 

Yes, but they weren't at the beginning.

 

[Aza.2105]

> @"Ashimmu.4219" said:

> People who says Guardian have LOTS of heals/blocks - did you actually played Guardian?

> If you sacrifice 2 utility slots for meditation skills (which heals ~2000hp and have 30sec cooldown) you will find yourself with basic healing skill and rare aegis (it blocks 1 (ONE!) hit).

> But one thing that most people misses - lack of mobility which can be translated into lack of tank (just remember warrior - he can tank by moving).

> I feel the intent of lowest HP was to make all classes 'the same' in term of tanking - which is kitten!

> Guard is supposed to be most tankier unit in GW.

> Lowest also HP means he can't use certain amulets - which limits its capabilities.

> I resume - Guardian NEEDS that HP to make this class playable.

> Now it's underperforming.

>

 

This is a summary of each class design directly from Anet back in 2012:

 

**Warrior**

We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.

 

**Guardian**

The Guardian is a heavy armor class who relies on boons to make up for their low levels of innate health. They focus on area control and punishing enemies for the position on the battlefield. We want them to feel very powerful when their boons are active, but if those boons are removed, they will start to feel pressure. They can remove conditions more easily than the Warrior, but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage.

 

**Ranger**

The ranger class combines its own innate abilities with the skills of their pets. We’ve balanced the class around the idea that you always have a pet with you to aid in any fight. The fact that the ranger can have multiple pets allows them to combine their pets in ways that most impact the current fight. We want the Ranger to have some of the evasion enjoyed by the Thief, as well as the mobility other classes employ. The class is able to deal physical or condition damage, and it can do this in melee or at range.

 

**Engineer**

The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.

 

**Thief**

Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.

 

**Mesmer**

Mesmers rely on illusions in order to accomplish their goals. They need illusions to accomplish some of their highest damage and control, and without the illusions, they become fairly fragile. They can deal with enemy boons better than most classes, but enemy conditions can often be a problem. They share some of the stealth and mobility that the Thief enjoys, but suffer from a low health pool if you get past all their tricks.

 

**Ele**

We see the elementalist as the king of versatility. The skill ceiling for the Ele is exceptional, as the ability to leverage all four attunements at the right time is crucial for understanding the elemetnalist. The Ele boasts some of the best team support and control abilities in the game, as well as some great area of effect damage.

 

**Necro**

The necro boasts the highest natural health of all the caster classes, and also has death shroud to extend that life total even higher. While they don’t have some of the escape or damage reduction capabilities that other classes boast, they do have a lot of ways to win attrition fights. They have access to poison on multiple weapons, they are able to combine condition damage with raw damage, and they have multiple disables to interrupt enemy skills. Necomancers also have multiple movement disabling abilities, while allows them to chase down enemies who are low on health.

 

**Going forward**

 

Tank vs spike vs physical DPS vs condie DPS. We want to keep making balance changes that allow all classes to have various builds they can use. We don’t want tanks dominating the game, and we don’t want spike builds dominating. It’s healthy to have multiple types of builds in the meta, so we’ll be improving the balance to facilitate a healthy meta.

 

AOE balance. We feel that in PvP some AOE builds are too strong for the opportunity cost, and we’ll be bringing those in line in the next few patches.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012

[Largo Cifer.3495]

It's true that FBs are good at tanking and supporting. Good FBs can easily 1v3 average players and keep shitting out aegis and other boons. But that makes FB the only viable guardian spec. Imagine a bruiser core guard. The so called "insane healing" comes from that only valor trait and guards are stuck with that for life. If that is taken away then u have no heal, even less compared to other classes. Also virtues are outdated. f3 only blocks a single attack with aegis and thats a 45 cd skill which is a joke. So, yes....guardian would be much better with a higher hp pool and in no way will be broken. FBs can still have the lower pool....

[Ashimmu.4219]

Seems logical approach but they failed to implement that boon-generating potency.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> > @"Ashimmu.4219" said:

> > People who says Guardian have LOTS of heals/blocks - did you actually played Guardian?

> > If you sacrifice 2 utility slots for meditation skills (which heals ~2000hp and have 30sec cooldown) you will find yourself with basic healing skill and rare aegis (it blocks 1 (ONE!) hit).

> > But one thing that most people misses - lack of mobility which can be translated into lack of tank (just remember warrior - he can tank by moving).

> > I feel the intent of lowest HP was to make all classes 'the same' in term of tanking - which is kitten!

> > Guard is supposed to be most tankier unit in GW.

> > Lowest also HP means he can't use certain amulets - which limits its capabilities.

> > I resume - Guardian NEEDS that HP to make this class playable.

> > Now it's underperforming.

> >

>

> This is a summary of each class design directly from Anet back in 2012:

>

> **Warrior**

> We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.

>

> **Guardian**

> The Guardian is a heavy armor class who relies on boons to make up for their low levels of innate health. They focus on area control and punishing enemies for the position on the battlefield. We want them to feel very powerful when their boons are active, but if those boons are removed, they will start to feel pressure. They can remove conditions more easily than the Warrior, but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage.

>

> **Ranger**

> The ranger class combines its own innate abilities with the skills of their pets. We’ve balanced the class around the idea that you always have a pet with you to aid in any fight. The fact that the ranger can have multiple pets allows them to combine their pets in ways that most impact the current fight. We want the Ranger to have some of the evasion enjoyed by the Thief, as well as the mobility other classes employ. The class is able to deal physical or condition damage, and it can do this in melee or at range.

>

> **Engineer**

> The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.

>

> **Thief**

> Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.

>

> **Mesmer**

> Mesmers rely on illusions in order to accomplish their goals. They need illusions to accomplish some of their highest damage and control, and without the illusions, they become fairly fragile. They can deal with enemy boons better than most classes, but enemy conditions can often be a problem. They share some of the stealth and mobility that the Thief enjoys, but suffer from a low health pool if you get past all their tricks.

>

> **Ele**

> We see the elementalist as the king of versatility. The skill ceiling for the Ele is exceptional, as the ability to leverage all four attunements at the right time is crucial for understanding the elemetnalist. The Ele boasts some of the best team support and control abilities in the game, as well as some great area of effect damage.

>

> **Necro**

> The necro boasts the highest natural health of all the caster classes, and also has death shroud to extend that life total even higher. While they don’t have some of the escape or damage reduction capabilities that other classes boast, they do have a lot of ways to win attrition fights. They have access to poison on multiple weapons, they are able to combine condition damage with raw damage, and they have multiple disables to interrupt enemy skills. Necomancers also have multiple movement disabling abilities, while allows them to chase down enemies who are low on health.

>

> **Going forward**

>

> Tank vs spike vs physical DPS vs condie DPS. We want to keep making balance changes that allow all classes to have various builds they can use. We don’t want tanks dominating the game, and we don’t want spike builds dominating. It’s healthy to have multiple types of builds in the meta, so we’ll be improving the balance to facilitate a healthy meta.

>

> AOE balance. We feel that in PvP some AOE builds are too strong for the opportunity cost, and we’ll be bringing those in line in the next few patches.

> https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012

 

Except warriors, guards, holo's and rangers etc have the same high burst u mention thieves have so dont think ur post really follows anets balancing lol

[Aza.2105]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > @"Ashimmu.4219" said:

> > > People who says Guardian have LOTS of heals/blocks - did you actually played Guardian?

> > > If you sacrifice 2 utility slots for meditation skills (which heals ~2000hp and have 30sec cooldown) you will find yourself with basic healing skill and rare aegis (it blocks 1 (ONE!) hit).

> > > But one thing that most people misses - lack of mobility which can be translated into lack of tank (just remember warrior - he can tank by moving).

> > > I feel the intent of lowest HP was to make all classes 'the same' in term of tanking - which is kitten!

> > > Guard is supposed to be most tankier unit in GW.

> > > Lowest also HP means he can't use certain amulets - which limits its capabilities.

> > > I resume - Guardian NEEDS that HP to make this class playable.

> > > Now it's underperforming.

> > >

> >

> > This is a summary of each class design directly from Anet back in 2012:

> >

> > **Warrior**

> > We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.

> >

> > **Guardian**

> > The Guardian is a heavy armor class who relies on boons to make up for their low levels of innate health. They focus on area control and punishing enemies for the position on the battlefield. We want them to feel very powerful when their boons are active, but if those boons are removed, they will start to feel pressure. They can remove conditions more easily than the Warrior, but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage.

> >

> > **Ranger**

> > The ranger class combines its own innate abilities with the skills of their pets. We’ve balanced the class around the idea that you always have a pet with you to aid in any fight. The fact that the ranger can have multiple pets allows them to combine their pets in ways that most impact the current fight. We want the Ranger to have some of the evasion enjoyed by the Thief, as well as the mobility other classes employ. The class is able to deal physical or condition damage, and it can do this in melee or at range.

> >

> > **Engineer**

> > The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.

> >

> > **Thief**

> > Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.

> >

> > **Mesmer**

> > Mesmers rely on illusions in order to accomplish their goals. They need illusions to accomplish some of their highest damage and control, and without the illusions, they become fairly fragile. They can deal with enemy boons better than most classes, but enemy conditions can often be a problem. They share some of the stealth and mobility that the Thief enjoys, but suffer from a low health pool if you get past all their tricks.

> >

> > **Ele**

> > We see the elementalist as the king of versatility. The skill ceiling for the Ele is exceptional, as the ability to leverage all four attunements at the right time is crucial for understanding the elemetnalist. The Ele boasts some of the best team support and control abilities in the game, as well as some great area of effect damage.

> >

> > **Necro**

> > The necro boasts the highest natural health of all the caster classes, and also has death shroud to extend that life total even higher. While they don’t have some of the escape or damage reduction capabilities that other classes boast, they do have a lot of ways to win attrition fights. They have access to poison on multiple weapons, they are able to combine condition damage with raw damage, and they have multiple disables to interrupt enemy skills. Necomancers also have multiple movement disabling abilities, while allows them to chase down enemies who are low on health.

> >

> > **Going forward**

> >

> > Tank vs spike vs physical DPS vs condie DPS. We want to keep making balance changes that allow all classes to have various builds they can use. We don’t want tanks dominating the game, and we don’t want spike builds dominating. It’s healthy to have multiple types of builds in the meta, so we’ll be improving the balance to facilitate a healthy meta.

> >

> > AOE balance. We feel that in PvP some AOE builds are too strong for the opportunity cost, and we’ll be bringing those in line in the next few patches.

> > https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012

>

> Except warriors, guards, holo's and rangers etc have the same high burst u mention thieves have so dont think ur post really follows anets balancing lol

 

But I didn't write that, Anet themselves did. It was from the dec 2012 patch notes.

 

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012

 

I also want to quote something else from the patch notes, its important to understand WHY things are out of control now:

 

**Class balance philosophies**

"We normally try to employ metered and controlled balance changes with each pass, rather than huge reductions or improvements to classes. We want to get all classes on the same playing field, and we want to avoid “whack-a-mole” style balance. HUGH increases and HUGE decreases lead to meta instability, and thusly, we try to make multiple small tweaks rather than putting in massive changes that we have to later correct.

**When designing and balancing the classes, we try to make sure that class roles and identities stay intact. So, in doing so, we make sure that there are rules and boundaries outlining the capabilities and weaknesses of each class.**"

 

 

 

 

 

Who ever balances classes now tossed that shit out the window. The weakness of each class played a important part of their initial designs. Engi never was suppose to do the damage like a thief, warrior was never suppose to have the sustain of a guardian, mesmer was suppose to be vulnerable when their clones were destroyed. All that is gone, what is left is just a big mess.

 

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Ashimmu.4219" said:

> People who says Guardian have LOTS of heals/blocks - did you actually played Guardian?

> If you sacrifice 2 utility slots for meditation skills (which heals ~2000hp and have 30sec cooldown) you will find yourself with basic healing skill and rare aegis (it blocks 1 (ONE!) hit).

> But one thing that most people misses - lack of mobility which can be translated into lack of tank (just remember warrior - he can tank by moving).

> I feel the intent of lowest HP was to make all classes 'the same' in term of tanking - which is kitten!

> Guard is supposed to be most tankier unit in GW.

> Lowest also HP means he can't use certain amulets - which limits its capabilities.

> I resume - Guardian NEEDS that HP to make this class playable.

> Now it's underperforming.

>

 

underperforming you say ? o.O

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > > @"Ashimmu.4219" said:

> > > > People who says Guardian have LOTS of heals/blocks - did you actually played Guardian?

> > > > If you sacrifice 2 utility slots for meditation skills (which heals ~2000hp and have 30sec cooldown) you will find yourself with basic healing skill and rare aegis (it blocks 1 (ONE!) hit).

> > > > But one thing that most people misses - lack of mobility which can be translated into lack of tank (just remember warrior - he can tank by moving).

> > > > I feel the intent of lowest HP was to make all classes 'the same' in term of tanking - which is kitten!

> > > > Guard is supposed to be most tankier unit in GW.

> > > > Lowest also HP means he can't use certain amulets - which limits its capabilities.

> > > > I resume - Guardian NEEDS that HP to make this class playable.

> > > > Now it's underperforming.

> > > >

> > >

> > > This is a summary of each class design directly from Anet back in 2012:

> > >

> > > **Warrior**

> > > We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.

> > >

> > > **Guardian**

> > > The Guardian is a heavy armor class who relies on boons to make up for their low levels of innate health. They focus on area control and punishing enemies for the position on the battlefield. We want them to feel very powerful when their boons are active, but if those boons are removed, they will start to feel pressure. They can remove conditions more easily than the Warrior, but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage.

> > >

> > > **Ranger**

> > > The ranger class combines its own innate abilities with the skills of their pets. We’ve balanced the class around the idea that you always have a pet with you to aid in any fight. The fact that the ranger can have multiple pets allows them to combine their pets in ways that most impact the current fight. We want the Ranger to have some of the evasion enjoyed by the Thief, as well as the mobility other classes employ. The class is able to deal physical or condition damage, and it can do this in melee or at range.

> > >

> > > **Engineer**

> > > The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.

> > >

> > > **Thief**

> > > Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.

> > >

> > > **Mesmer**

> > > Mesmers rely on illusions in order to accomplish their goals. They need illusions to accomplish some of their highest damage and control, and without the illusions, they become fairly fragile. They can deal with enemy boons better than most classes, but enemy conditions can often be a problem. They share some of the stealth and mobility that the Thief enjoys, but suffer from a low health pool if you get past all their tricks.

> > >

> > > **Ele**

> > > We see the elementalist as the king of versatility. The skill ceiling for the Ele is exceptional, as the ability to leverage all four attunements at the right time is crucial for understanding the elemetnalist. The Ele boasts some of the best team support and control abilities in the game, as well as some great area of effect damage.

> > >

> > > **Necro**

> > > The necro boasts the highest natural health of all the caster classes, and also has death shroud to extend that life total even higher. While they don’t have some of the escape or damage reduction capabilities that other classes boast, they do have a lot of ways to win attrition fights. They have access to poison on multiple weapons, they are able to combine condition damage with raw damage, and they have multiple disables to interrupt enemy skills. Necomancers also have multiple movement disabling abilities, while allows them to chase down enemies who are low on health.

> > >

> > > **Going forward**

> > >

> > > Tank vs spike vs physical DPS vs condie DPS. We want to keep making balance changes that allow all classes to have various builds they can use. We don’t want tanks dominating the game, and we don’t want spike builds dominating. It’s healthy to have multiple types of builds in the meta, so we’ll be improving the balance to facilitate a healthy meta.

> > >

> > > AOE balance. We feel that in PvP some AOE builds are too strong for the opportunity cost, and we’ll be bringing those in line in the next few patches.

> > > https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012

> >

> > Except warriors, guards, holo's and rangers etc have the same high burst u mention thieves have so dont think ur post really follows anets balancing lol

>

> But I didn't write that, Anet themselves did. It was from the dec 2012 patch notes.

>

> https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012

 

Ah lol sry than arenets balance is no where close to their class visions. But its been that way since I can remember.

[otto.5684]

@"Aza.2105" Just reading this part:

 

**Guardian

The Guardian is a heavy armor class who relies on boons to make up for their low levels of innate health. They focus on area control and punishing enemies for the position on the battlefield. We want them to feel very powerful when their boons are active, but if those boons are removed, they will start to feel pressure. They can remove conditions more easily than the Warrior, but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage.**

 

As for boons, FB support is really the only guardian build that have access to good chunk of boons. Any other guardian build access to boons is limited when you compare with most meta builds. Also, the part is "very powerful when their boons are active," the only offensive boon guardian has consistent access to is fury.. and so does every single build. DH have zero access to might. Core maybe 5-6 might with 10-12 spikes, if using virtues. Quickness, you cannot realistically access it in PvP.

 

Condi removal still holds, but we have been in a power meta.. since ever. If most of the meta builds are condi, we would see more guardian builds, but since Anet blanket condi nerf in 2017, it is impossible for any condi build to be meta except mirage, scourge and sometimes condi thief. And all three are now on shaky ground. And needless to say, guardian is not the only class with strong condi removal. So I would not look at this as an exclusive advantage by any stretch.

 

**Going forward

 

Tank vs spike vs physical DPS vs condie DPS. We want to keep making balance changes that allow all classes to have various builds they can use. We don’t want tanks dominating the game, and we don’t want spike builds dominating. It’s healthy to have multiple types of builds in the meta, so we’ll be improving the balance to facilitate a healthy meta.**

 

Man, half of the meta now is tanky builds with spike damage **-_-"**

[Psycoprophet.8107]

This is what happens when a company reacts they way they do to nerf cries from players that die to high burst glass classes.

1st- nerf dps of the low sustain classes

2nd- give high sustain classes buffs that increase their burst dps resulting in matching or actually surpassing that of the low sustain classes lol on top of already being given other counter measures to deal with high burst low sustain classes.

That's gw2 for u, the pvp is a mess.

[Aza.2105]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> Man, half of the meta now is tanky builds with spike damage **-_-"**

 

Right! And thats why the game has so many problems now. Remember when the game first launched it was sort of polarized. If you work a toughness amulet you didn't do much damage. Same as when you wore a healing power amulet.

 

 

[aelska.4609]

> @"FtoPScrub.5476" said:

> Because the original design behind the low hp pool was that Core Guard would be what FB support is today. It might've been true for a little bit in WvW but these days it no longer makes sense to impose 11k hp on Core/DH. **Many balancing issues would be solved if they had elite spec specific hp pools rather than class wide.**

 

Imo this comment is underrated. That would be a pretty easy fix to bring back balance, which could be tuned perfectly.

 

Besides, guardian's low health pool wouldn't be so problematic if all the other classes didn't have so many boons (facing a class with 25 stacks of might and perma prot as a guardian really feels like fighting some kind of dark souls boss) and so many CC. Before buffing stuffs, I would recommend to nerf problematic stuffs, as it is for me a better way to bring healthy gameplay.

 

Other tweaks than raising the hp pool could be used to bring guardians more in line with what the game currently is. for instance symbols could be modified so that they actually follow the guardian (like war torch #5, although symbol damage should be lowered - king of the melee biatches), or the trait tree could be more consistent. But I doubt the balance team has sufficient knowledge for such modifications, they disappointed us way too often ^^

[Caedmon.6798]

Because their survival comes from having acces to aegis/blocks and more "insta" heals compared to other specs,theres a reason theyre the most wanted spec in wvw aswell in blobs/raids. Warri's, the in your face "bruiser" spec has a high hp pool because while having acces to a "constant" heal ( Adren Hp ) which is locked behind a burst before theyre able to get those stacks up,while having acces to invulns,theyre on a long cd with a short uptime. As on thief,why do they have a 11k hp pool ? Because their survival comes from mechanics like stealth and having more acces to dodges on certain builds compared to other builds. Why is nec hp pool so large while having acces to life force hp ? Because they don't have acces to blocks,invulns. Having a high hp pool or an equalized hp pool across all specs doesn't make sense because all specs serve a different role and certain specs like guards would get extremely unbalanced if their hp pool would get increased.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"aelska.4609" said:

> Besides, guardian's low health pool wouldn't be so problematic if all the other classes didn't have so many boons (facing a class with 25 stacks of might and perma prot as a guardian really feels like fighting some kind of dark souls boss) and so many CC. Before buffing stuffs, I would recommend to nerf problematic stuffs, as it is for me a better way to bring healthy gameplay.

The health pool is not problematic! Every single guardian spec has the capability to outsustain and outdamage necros and warriors.

 

Guardian would need heavy nerfs if you would raise the base health just to revenant levels. Did you notice that firebrands and weavers are the best bunkers in the game due to incredible damage mitigation and healing? So you think it's a good idea to increase their base HP that they can afford to change some vitality to power to become the best bunker in the game that also deals bruiser style damage?

 

I really suggest that you find some decent guardian player who will teach you how well the class performs in any game mode. Guardian is a strong and flexible class! Other classes can only dream of the amount of viable options you have game wide.

 

And please stop debating as if marauder gear would not exist. Only 12% less damage, but 50% more health for you - End of Story!

[Math.5123]

> @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> Because their survival comes from having acces to aegis/blocks and more "insta" heals compared to other specs,theres a reason theyre the most wanted spec in wvw aswell in blobs/raids. Warri's, the in your face "bruiser" spec has a high hp pool because while having acces to a "constant" heal ( Adren Hp ) which is locked behind a burst before theyre able to get those stacks up,while having acces to invulns,theyre on a long cd with a short uptime. As on thief,why do they have a 11k hp pool ? Because their survival comes from mechanics like stealth and having more acces to dodges on certain builds compared to other builds. Why is nec hp pool so large while having acces to life force hp ? Because they don't have acces to blocks,invulns. Having a high hp pool or an equalized hp pool across all specs doesn't make sense because all specs serve a different role and certain specs like guards would get extremely unbalanced if their hp pool would get increased.

 

But Guardian has less blocks than ... Warrior. Revenant. Ranger. Holo and Mesmer.

It also has less "Protective boon uptime" than Revenant. Engineer. Ranger. Mesmer. Necromancer.

It also has less sustained damage than just about every other spec out there.

It also has sub-par burst damage (outside of a 4 seconds wind-up focus 5).

It also has the worst mobility in the entire game. We have been forced to run Lynx / Traveler runes since HoT launch, when we finally dropped our staff.

It's also one out of two classes without any form of evade frames tied to weapon and / or Utility skills.

It also has zero access to Vigor.

 

By all means, I know Firebrand is bullshit right now. I've been advocating for nerfs against it since release. But DO NOT say that Core Guardian and DH have more blocks and heals than other specs out there.

[Caedmon.6798]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > Because their survival comes from having acces to aegis/blocks and more "insta" heals compared to other specs,theres a reason theyre the most wanted spec in wvw aswell in blobs/raids. Warri's, the in your face "bruiser" spec has a high hp pool because while having acces to a "constant" heal ( Adren Hp ) which is locked behind a burst before theyre able to get those stacks up,while having acces to invulns,theyre on a long cd with a short uptime. As on thief,why do they have a 11k hp pool ? Because their survival comes from mechanics like stealth and having more acces to dodges on certain builds compared to other builds. Why is nec hp pool so large while having acces to life force hp ? Because they don't have acces to blocks,invulns. Having a high hp pool or an equalized hp pool across all specs doesn't make sense because all specs serve a different role and certain specs like guards would get extremely unbalanced if their hp pool would get increased.

>

> But Guardian has less blocks than ... Warrior. Revenant. Ranger. Holo and Mesmer.

> It also has less "Protective boon uptime" than Revenant. Engineer. Ranger. Mesmer. Necromancer.

> It also has less sustained damage than just about every other spec out there.

> It also has sub-par burst damage (outside of a 4 seconds wind-up focus 5).

> It also has the worst mobility in the entire game. We have been forced to run Lynx / Traveler runes since HoT launch, when we finally dropped our staff.

> It's also one out of two classes without any form of evade frames tied to weapon and / or Utility skills.

> It also has zero access to Vigor.

>

> By all means, I know Firebrand is kitten right now. I've been advocating for nerfs against it since release. But DO NOT say that Core Guardian and DH have more blocks and heals than other specs out there.

 

How does a warri have more blocks than a guard ? Just no,they have prot when counter gets hit or a shieldblock but that's it. I also meant guard in general,it being fb moreso than core yes. Guard is also a support class,a class that shouldnt have high mobility + damage ontop of their sustain. And on Dh their damage is still proper and able to oneshot people.

[Math.5123]

> @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > > Because their survival comes from having acces to aegis/blocks and more "insta" heals compared to other specs,theres a reason theyre the most wanted spec in wvw aswell in blobs/raids. Warri's, the in your face "bruiser" spec has a high hp pool because while having acces to a "constant" heal ( Adren Hp ) which is locked behind a burst before theyre able to get those stacks up,while having acces to invulns,theyre on a long cd with a short uptime. As on thief,why do they have a 11k hp pool ? Because their survival comes from mechanics like stealth and having more acces to dodges on certain builds compared to other builds. Why is nec hp pool so large while having acces to life force hp ? Because they don't have acces to blocks,invulns. Having a high hp pool or an equalized hp pool across all specs doesn't make sense because all specs serve a different role and certain specs like guards would get extremely unbalanced if their hp pool would get increased.

> >

> > But Guardian has less blocks than ... Warrior. Revenant. Ranger. Holo and Mesmer.

> > It also has less "Protective boon uptime" than Revenant. Engineer. Ranger. Mesmer. Necromancer.

> > It also has less sustained damage than just about every other spec out there.

> > It also has sub-par burst damage (outside of a 4 seconds wind-up focus 5).

> > It also has the worst mobility in the entire game. We have been forced to run Lynx / Traveler runes since HoT launch, when we finally dropped our staff.

> > It's also one out of two classes without any form of evade frames tied to weapon and / or Utility skills.

> > It also has zero access to Vigor.

> >

> > By all means, I know Firebrand is kitten right now. I've been advocating for nerfs against it since release. But DO NOT say that Core Guardian and DH have more blocks and heals than other specs out there.

>

> How does a warri have more blocks than a guard ? Just no,they have prot when counter gets hit or a shieldblock but that's it. I also meant guard in general,it being fb moreso than core yes.

 

Core Guardian has 2 aegis on a 45 second cooldown. It has 3 "Aegis" on focus 5. On ~35 second cd.

 

Warrior blocks EVERYTHING for 3 seconds per 20 seconds.

So unless you're getting hit by less than 1 attack per second while channeling your block ( you wont ) Warrior has by definition more blocks.

[Caedmon.6798]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > > > Because their survival comes from having acces to aegis/blocks and more "insta" heals compared to other specs,theres a reason theyre the most wanted spec in wvw aswell in blobs/raids. Warri's, the in your face "bruiser" spec has a high hp pool because while having acces to a "constant" heal ( Adren Hp ) which is locked behind a burst before theyre able to get those stacks up,while having acces to invulns,theyre on a long cd with a short uptime. As on thief,why do they have a 11k hp pool ? Because their survival comes from mechanics like stealth and having more acces to dodges on certain builds compared to other builds. Why is nec hp pool so large while having acces to life force hp ? Because they don't have acces to blocks,invulns. Having a high hp pool or an equalized hp pool across all specs doesn't make sense because all specs serve a different role and certain specs like guards would get extremely unbalanced if their hp pool would get increased.

> > >

> > > But Guardian has less blocks than ... Warrior. Revenant. Ranger. Holo and Mesmer.

> > > It also has less "Protective boon uptime" than Revenant. Engineer. Ranger. Mesmer. Necromancer.

> > > It also has less sustained damage than just about every other spec out there.

> > > It also has sub-par burst damage (outside of a 4 seconds wind-up focus 5).

> > > It also has the worst mobility in the entire game. We have been forced to run Lynx / Traveler runes since HoT launch, when we finally dropped our staff.

> > > It's also one out of two classes without any form of evade frames tied to weapon and / or Utility skills.

> > > It also has zero access to Vigor.

> > >

> > > By all means, I know Firebrand is kitten right now. I've been advocating for nerfs against it since release. But DO NOT say that Core Guardian and DH have more blocks and heals than other specs out there.

> >

> > How does a warri have more blocks than a guard ? Just no,they have prot when counter gets hit or a shieldblock but that's it. I also meant guard in general,it being fb moreso than core yes.

>

> Core Guardian has 2 aegis on a 45 second cooldown. It has 3 "Aegis" on focus 5. On ~35 second cd.

>

> Warrior blocks EVERYTHING for 3 seconds per 20 seconds.

> So unless you're getting hit by less than 1 attack per second while channeling your block ( you wont ) Warrior has by definition more blocks.

 

Haha righto,don't count the passives aswell !

 

Warri's are the masters of blocking and sharing blocks everyone in wvw always wants warri's in their squad because their ability to block/share blocks/reflect and share heals + cleanses.

[Math.5123]

> @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > > @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > > > > Because their survival comes from having acces to aegis/blocks and more "insta" heals compared to other specs,theres a reason theyre the most wanted spec in wvw aswell in blobs/raids. Warri's, the in your face "bruiser" spec has a high hp pool because while having acces to a "constant" heal ( Adren Hp ) which is locked behind a burst before theyre able to get those stacks up,while having acces to invulns,theyre on a long cd with a short uptime. As on thief,why do they have a 11k hp pool ? Because their survival comes from mechanics like stealth and having more acces to dodges on certain builds compared to other builds. Why is nec hp pool so large while having acces to life force hp ? Because they don't have acces to blocks,invulns. Having a high hp pool or an equalized hp pool across all specs doesn't make sense because all specs serve a different role and certain specs like guards would get extremely unbalanced if their hp pool would get increased.

> > > >

> > > > But Guardian has less blocks than ... Warrior. Revenant. Ranger. Holo and Mesmer.

> > > > It also has less "Protective boon uptime" than Revenant. Engineer. Ranger. Mesmer. Necromancer.

> > > > It also has less sustained damage than just about every other spec out there.

> > > > It also has sub-par burst damage (outside of a 4 seconds wind-up focus 5).

> > > > It also has the worst mobility in the entire game. We have been forced to run Lynx / Traveler runes since HoT launch, when we finally dropped our staff.

> > > > It's also one out of two classes without any form of evade frames tied to weapon and / or Utility skills.

> > > > It also has zero access to Vigor.

> > > >

> > > > By all means, I know Firebrand is kitten right now. I've been advocating for nerfs against it since release. But DO NOT say that Core Guardian and DH have more blocks and heals than other specs out there.

> > >

> > > How does a warri have more blocks than a guard ? Just no,they have prot when counter gets hit or a shieldblock but that's it. I also meant guard in general,it being fb moreso than core yes.

> >

> > Core Guardian has 2 aegis on a 45 second cooldown. It has 3 "Aegis" on focus 5. On ~35 second cd.

> >

> > Warrior blocks EVERYTHING for 3 seconds per 20 seconds.

> > So unless you're getting hit by less than 1 attack per second while channeling your block ( you wont ) Warrior has by definition more blocks.

>

> Haha righto !

>

> Warri's are the masters of blocking and sharing blocks.

 

Sharing blocks? Yeah dude, Guardian can share 1 aegis every 45 seconds. Talk about massive support capabilities.