Official Feedback Thread about Build and Equipment Templates

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:

> How about reducing the liquid gold from Raids and reduce the price of the Teamplates in the same time (from 500 gems to 150?) ?

> The excitementof the hard engagement and the Legendary gear aquicision , remains .

>

> Or putting more adds/events to make the Raid length arbitary longer ? More fitting for a 85 gold reward instance ?

> I mean nowdays bosses can be killed in 4,5 min . And they are 3 in each Wing.

>

> Gizmos (sold to the trading post) + Selling runs for gold to the unfortunate people that dont have Killproof , yield some Money income there.

 

First, it's around 60 gold per full run, not 85. The average gold yield is 5 wings with 3 bosses at 2 gold per boss (total 30 gold) and 2 extra wings with 3 bosses with 4 gold per boss (24 gold) with a slight variation between wing 2 and 4 where the former has 2 bosses and the later has 4.

 

Second, your assumption that bosses take 4.5 minutes is at best valid for the absolute upper echelon of raiders ala Lucky Noobs, Snowcrows and the like and only during record attempts. It doesn't even account for time lost to loading screens and character switching or even slightest mistakes and as such is not representative of how much a raid will yield. The full clear group I am running with takes an average 3.5 hours for a FC (with our record being 3 hours, 5 minutes) and this group is made up of some dedicated raiders.

 

You can expect around 20 gold from exotics on top of those 60 gold (with a 5-10 gold variation in either direction depending on drop luck). That's it in liquid gold.

 

The math on Magnetite Shards and Gaeting Crystals is rather simple with 150 per week (and a random amount for selling double minis ranging from 0 to maybe 200 extra on average) since the items one can convert those into and sell are known. It's 90-100 gold per 1,000 MS (9s per MS) and around 350-400 gold per 2,000 GS (17.5s per GS).

 

Not included in that calculation is ascended gear, which is not easily (or at all) converted into gold. It merely poses less of an investment in the future into gearing (which for players who reach such times is insignificant. Most this dedicated raiders drown in spare ascended gear from raids and fractals over the last few years).

 

That's without factoring in for learning the fights, mastering the fights and even clearing all the raid wings in this time frame.

 

**TL;DR**:

If you want to petition for cheaper Build Template slots, fine, but don't do that on the back of content you obviously have no idea how high or low rewarding it is. If you wanted to cut gold from instanced content, try hitting fractals, since those reward far more gold on a daily basis for far less effort. I doubt though you'll get a very positive response from players who enjoy fractals.

[TPMN.1483]

@Killthehealersffs.8940 - Players were getting upset with a build inspect tool - however this is off-topic.

 

http://martionlabs.com/stopping-development/ - check the reason for stopping development:

"_**Stopping development**_

I’m stopping development of my mechanics log and boon table plugins. In practice I haven’t touched the code in over a month, but the recent announcement of official build templates has lost whatever faith I had left in Arenanet. There have been content releases for GW2. There has been a drought – sure – but things like the new Icebrood Saga and Strike Mission are “content”. It’s just not content I enjoy playing. I am a raider. Raids in GW2 have been very slow to come out. Still, Wing 7 was a raid and it made the game better than not releasing anything at all.

Enter official build templates. This is a patch that Arenanet has been working on for a long time. By doing this, they force Delta to disable his templates. Yet, the official build templates cannot do as much as the unofficial one that Delta made. My ranger has 20+ templates (1 per boss + power/condi/wvw roaming/misc). Such a use case is simply not supported by the official solution.

The microtransactions are also really dumb to me. If they are trying to monetize the raid community, they should have said something about how they are working on a new raid, maybe? I would have been happier if on the same day they said “…and we’re working on wing 8 to be released later this year”, but they didn’t. They effectively want us to pay for something worse than what we already had for free with no promise of what that money is going towards.

Build templates were the 1st example for me where Arenanet spent a significant amount of resources making raids worse. That is why I drew the line at build templates.

I will still be raiding in Guild Wars 2, but not enough to maintain the plugins for any new content. The existing plugins will work as they do now as long as arcdps itself maintains the same combat api."

 

-- The decrease in the number of raiders is the length of time is has taken to get raid wings released.

W1 - Nov 2015 | W2 - March 2016 (4 months after W1) | W3 - June 2016 (3 Months after W2) | W4 - Feb 2017 ( 9 Months) | W5 - Nov 2017 (9 months) | W6 - Sept 2018 (10 months) | W7 - June 2019 (9 months) … .Fast forward to Feb 2020 (11 months and no new RAID wing) - no wing 8.

- You will see a drop off after W4 as many were complaining how long it was taking to release raids, w5 was tied to an expansion with the 3 releases being very spaced out which will show a drop in people doing than an increase in players... new players learning raids will start with W1-W4 not W5, 6 or 7; as often they will do W1-W4 or parts of it to get the LI for legendary armour.

 

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

> @"TPMN.1483" said:

> Enter official build templates. This is a patch that Arenanet has been working on for a long time. By doing this, they force Delta to disable his templates. Yet, the official build templates cannot do as much as the unofficial one that Delta made. My ranger has 20+ templates (1 per boss + power/condi/wvw roaming/misc). Such a use case is simply not supported by the official solution.

 

**Yeah people , for 6 year they could recall any build the wanted from memory

I am sorry you cant do this after the April of 2018 ....how did you manage before that ?

You can create any build you want and Save/Copy paste into a Word.file ...its free , and copy it ingame

Just leave the Word open > Alt+Tab copy the string of code (which represent a Build > paste it inside ...its 8-10 sec job and free.. **

 

> The microtransactions are also really dumb to me. If they are trying to monetize the raid community, they should have said something about how they are working on a new raid, maybe? I would have been happier if on the same day they said “…and we’re working on wing 8 to be released later this year”, but they didn’t. They effectively want us to pay for something worse than what we already had for free with no promise of what that money is going towards.

 

**They said theat future Raids are not canceled , but postpone because of the Ncsoft firing /started new companies and the stuff is re-organise

They hired back Ben

bah another male**

They should create a different section in the Gemstore called Patreon , where it shows your name and your contribution do the raids .

So we can ''support you'' (freely) emotionally and pressing the company to release faster the raid

 

 

> Build templates were the 1st example for me where Arenanet spent a significant amount of resources making raids worse. That is why I drew the line at build templates.

 

**What ?

Raid Designers =/= PvP designer =/= Template Designers**

The build might be from a preivious Devs unfinished that dont work in the company any more

What has the ''Difficulty'' of the Raid (that was made more accessible) has to do with Build Templates ?

Build where created after Wind 7 , 3 months ago **

 

 

> -- The decrease in the number of raiders is the length of time is has taken to get raid wings released.

> W1 - Nov 2015 | W2 - March 2016 (4 months after W1) | W3 - June 2016 (3 Months after W2) | W4 - Feb 2017 ( 9 Months) | W5 - Nov 2017 (9 months) | W6 - Sept 2018 (10 months) | W7 - June 2019 (9 months) … .Fast forward to Feb 2020 (11 months and no new RAID wing) - no wing 8.

 

**Yeah because , they had to pull stuff members to polish the future x-pack (PoF) instead of Raid 5

 

Casuals in the open world where reduced by 9,5% based on the 260k sample from the 11 million accounts (63% > 57% end season boss kiled) .... but in Raids was -67% (from 17% to 5,7 participation Wing 5 )

Either casuals never heard the announcement (let me see.....Raids+PvP threads in Reddit...contant downvote all the time ....more fan-art- sexySylvari Redhead Engineer ...do better job otherwise i will kick you .... upvotes most of the time ) , or simply they dont enjoy hardcore raids and the devs looked at the redit as censous ?

> - You will see a drop off after W4 as many were complaining how long it was taking to release raids, w5 was tied to an expansion with the 3 releases being very spaced out which will show a drop in people doing than an increase in players... new players learning raids will start with W1-W4 not W5, 6 or 7; as often they will do W1-W4 or parts of it to get the LI for legendary armour.

>

 

Casuals where/ARE STILL whinning about not getting inved in the raids , because of lack of DPS + no Killproof

 

Who again whined about Raids took long enought ?

Only the usual suspects , that they are still trying to say ''There is not Toxicity in Raids , but you are toxic for not participating and trying to stir things up''

''Its your lack of skill/proper Spells that you dont do enought dps and you get kicked ''

''I dont want casuals in my game that dont know how to destroy breakbar''

 

Noone wants the other ?

Fine !

Who pays ?

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Fire Attunement.9835" said:

> I have another update for you on what we're working on for Build and Equipment Templates. As mentioned in a previous post, one thing we've been working on is a way to give you all greater flexibility when making experimental changes to templates. That's almost ready, and a Revert button for changes to templates will be shipping with the February 25 build.

 

Now, _that_ was a just another impractical, disappointing "feature". People need to come to terms with the fact that your "templates" system will never be an actual templates system and will always fall short to what ARC users and GW1 players had hoped for in the first place.

 

Will there, at least, be a sale for those loadout slots anytime soon?

[Fenella.2634]

BTW, what about including outfits or even just colors in templates? For a game focused that much on fashion that's kind of important...

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Fenella.2634" said:

> BTW, what about including outfits or even just colors in templates? For a game focused that much on fashion that's kind of important...

Frankly, the system being as it is, wardrobe loadouts would be probably the only thing it might be good for.

 

[UnDeadFun.5824]

I'm sorry Anet, if you don't have more updates for templates and fix templates, I will not be purchasing your expansion.

[TPMN.1483]

I would hate this to be left on the table out back where ideas go to die... there is a new shiney toy coming called expansion. Given this normally bring more weapons,traits,elite specs it’s going to be even more essential to have proper equipment save files rather than what we have now.

[kharmin.7683]

It might yet be possible for Anet to be working on more than one thing at a time.

[UnDeadFun.5824]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> It might yet be possible for Anet to be working on more than one thing at a time.

 

I agree but they are not being clear what they are actually working on. They need to stop the cloak and dagger nonsense and say yes we are going to fix the problems with legendary gear, yes we are going to fix the problems with Revenant skills randomly changing, yes we are going to come up with a better solution than triple monetization or no we are done working on templates and buy them or go play something else.

[c space cowboy.2764]

I chose the later, and began playing something else.

 

It appears that nothing is going to change so I'll keep it that way.l

[AliamRationem.5172]

Can I have a system where I set up a complete build with everything, save it in one place, and then be able to just click once to change into that build? Is that really just not a thing you guys can design?

[Giotto.2607]

For equipment template, I advice we can have an account wise "ready bag" that let us can only put all the sigils, runes, infusions, bounded weapons, bounded armors in. if account bound or not bounded, we show account wise; if it's char bound, we show it only for that char. Then we won't have this inventory mess.

[Balthzar.3807]

its been over 6 months can we have some information on where this stands. even if its to tell us it isn't getting any better

 

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Balthzar.3807" said:

> ... even if its to tell us it isn't getting any better

I can't imagine any company would ever make such a statement.

 

 

[Anthonev.6452]

Legendary gear needs to go into an account wide gear storage, which then allows you to apply any of that gear, to any gear template, on any toon, with any selected stats and applied runes/infusions remembered.

Of course armour weight limits still apply (can only add Legendary light armour to a light armour class, etc) and the same with weapon restrictions, but if I have a light armour legendary set, I should be able to select and apply that armour set on both say an Ele and Mesmer, with different stats/runes/infusions per gear template tab, all at the same time.

Right now, one has to physically move the gear, which stuffs up all the templates and is a total pain in the neck, hence one doesn't do it.

As such, the whole template system rather devalues Legendary gear and its still that way some 6 months later, with no word it will ever change and one reason why I've not bought any gear template slots.

[Zok.4956]

> @"Anthonev.6452" said:

> Legendary gear needs to go into an account wide gear storage, which then allows you to apply any of that gear, to any gear template, on any toon,

 

Not only legendary gear, but also ascended gear and every other gear, that is not soul bound and that can be switched between characters.

 

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Zok.4956" said:

> > @"Anthonev.6452" said:

> > Legendary gear needs to go into an account wide gear storage, which then allows you to apply any of that gear, to any gear template, on any toon,

>

> Not only legendary gear, but also ascended gear and every other gear, that is not soul bound and that can be switched between characters.

>

 

I like the idea, but I don't see how ANet profits?

[Zok.4956]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Zok.4956" said:

> > > @"Anthonev.6452" said:

> > > Legendary gear needs to go into an account wide gear storage, which then allows you to apply any of that gear, to any gear template, on any toon,

> >

> > Not only legendary gear, but also ascended gear and every other gear, that is not soul bound and that can be switched between characters.

> >

>

> I like the idea, but I don't see how ANet profits?

 

Direct: They could sell "account gear storage" like bank storage

Indirect: Happy customers buy more stuff.

 

 

[beogoat.9215]

The Build Templates and Build Slots seems fine, however, I'm not fully satisfied with how the Equipment Templates work.

 

Gear such as Back items are stored within the Equipment slots themselves when switching between the different slots, and this can be disadvantageous if you're a player that likes to store gear in the Shared Inventory Slots instead.

 

For example, storing Ad Infinitum configured for healing in one Equipment slot, but the second Equipment slot tab has a totally different Back item for DPS. In this example, switching between the two Equipment slot does not permit Ad Infinitum be placed automatically into the Shared Inventory Slot when swapping.

 

Just my two cents worth.

[Balthzar.3807]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Zok.4956" said:

> > > @"Anthonev.6452" said:

> > > Legendary gear needs to go into an account wide gear storage, which then allows you to apply any of that gear, to any gear template, on any toon,

> >

> > Not only legendary gear, but also ascended gear and every other gear, that is not soul bound and that can be switched between characters.

> >

>

> I like the idea, but I don't see how ANet profits?

 

ncsoft west profits by giving something to the community that they would like and increases overall satisfaction in the game. They have lost almost $200 a month income just from me alone. I have no interest in rewarding them when I am not happy. s That should answer your question satisfactory. If there is anything else I can answer and clear up for you please don't hesitate to ask @"kharmin.7683" as I know you are pretty active here and have a lot of questions for people.

 

 

 

[kharmin.7683]

@"Balthzar.3807" I get what you're saying. Truly, I do. But you are just one player out of (probably) millions. Your $200/month loss may not be so significant to Anet, and they are willing to accept that.

 

I was questioning the other poster who wanted this to be something account wide for legendary, ascended and other items that are not soul bound. My devil's advocate point was Anet probably wouldn't accommodate that request because doing so only gets money from a player one time whereas the current model allows for multiple transactions should a player want the 'full' system. Granted, most players probably haven't purchased all of the available load-out slots, so my question might not be on solid ground. Only Anet has the figures and knows whether or not the current template system is a financial success (or enough of one) that satisfies their investors.

 

As a casual, non-competition mode player, the current system suits me fine and I haven't had to buy anything beyond what was originally released. I've thought about it, but even I wasn't willing to justify the cost. I _completely_ understand where the non-casual (raid, WvW, PvP) crowd gets their anger, especially as the official system, to them, no way replaces ARC. I never used ARC, so I can't say; but I do understand the discontent.

 

I just keep coming back to the same question for the suggestions in this thread: what's in it for ANet? There is no way that we can know the financial reasons and/or repercussions of this decision and implementation.

 

Now, if someone could come up with a solution that makes enough profit for Anet (including whatever developing resources would have to be expended), then I'm certain that they would listen. There aren't many things that speak louder to a company than dollars.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

When the actual fuck are you guys fixing the “revenant utilities swap locations” bug. It’s been around in its current iteration for 5 months now and is extremely annoying as a Rev main.

 

I haven’t bought any expansions for build templates due to this single issue

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Balthzar.3807" said:

> > ... even if its to tell us it isn't getting any better

> I can't imagine any company would ever make such a statement.

Exactly. Which is why no statement from Anet almost certainly means exactly this - that "templates" _won't_ be getting fixed.

 

[Rukia.4802]

Coming back I find the whole system very convoluted and confusing where in GW1 its really obvious how a template works and you have unlimited number of them saving to your computer. This is (GW2) a pretty terrible way of implementing them and charging money for extra slots is just hilarious, they had to know that would not go over well. This should be a completely free feature and greatly improved on. When your predecessor template system is 10x better you know theres a problem or miscommunication at arenanet, but thats not surprising with their management track record.