Can PvE not have retal?

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Dante.1508" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"Dante.1508" said:

> > > > @"borgs.6103" said:

> > > > > @"Solnos.8045" said:

> > > > > For all the people who keep saying boon strip, how about every class get access to boon strip first?

> > > > >

> > > > > Even then by that logic, every monster in the game can have 25 might, perma fury, and protection, but it's okay, cause some people can boon strip.

> > > >

> > > > Now you're just being disingenuous. It's all about the challenge of the specific encounter.

> > > >

> > > > Let's take some other monsters for example:

> > > > * The Chak have goop that slows you down and makes you take more damage from them the longer you stand in it. Can be nullified by a mastery which removes it the goop and makes one immune to it for a short time after dodging. They also have reflect shields that pretty much a death sentence like Retaliation to any ranged attackers.

> > > > * Smokescales are literally invulnerable in their smoke fields and when you melee them, you get blinded for days. Ranged damage deals with them easy.

> > > > * Wyverns, Rolling Devils and their big daddy Bonebreakers are such a pain to both melee and ranged, unless you break their defiance bar. Once broken though, they're as easy to kill as ambient creatures.

> > > > * Awakened Canids are so much pain to deal with on melee, and will get boons when attack from ranged. To beat them, you just have to kite them and wait out their "spring from the ground" attack, then attack in melee or if you're ranged, just deal with the protection boon's 33% damage reduction of your attacks.

> > > > * Awakened Abomination counter attacks and reflects range damage. You just wait out that attack and deal as otherwise.

> > > > * Diplomat Tarban's neverending confusion stacks. He gets harder every time Anet decides to buff confusion in PVE. Best way to deal with him is to not attack at all when he stacks those up and always have reflects and condition clears equipped when fighting him.

> > > >

> > > > Look at these hard monsters before that champion murellow. They all pose a challenge that require at least a little bit of effort to succeed. Some classes are totally going to have a hard time with those encounters while some can breeze through them.

> > > >

> > > > Without that retaliation, what would be that Champion Murrelow *Group Event* (mind you!)'s challenge? Might as well replace it with a static hunk of meat.

> > > >

> > > > And FYI, everyone can boonstrip. Use Sigils. Too much effort you say? Unfair? Well, it's also unfair that other classes can pretty much have permament 25 stacks of might, fury and swiftness, or tank a whole lot of damage while on full Berserker gear, or block everything, or dodge everything. Got to have variety in roles and group up, people. At the end of the day, you're playing an MMORPG.

> > >

> > > What boon strip do rangers get?

> >

> > Did you read his last paragraph?

> >

> > Here let me highlight the relevant parts:

> > > And FYI, everyone can boonstrip. **Use Sigils. Too much effort you say? Unfair? Well, it's also unfair that other classes can pretty much have permament 25 stacks of might, fury and swiftness, or tank a whole lot of damage while on full Berserker gear**, or block everything, or dodge everything. Got to have variety in roles and group up, people. At the end of the day, you're playing an MMORPG.

> >

> > Take a gander at where boon ranger falls.

>

> You sound very salty over rangers.. its ok.

 

I'm fine with rangers, I have 4. One of which who has my medium legendary armor.

 

Not sure why I would be salty about rangers when I am against making the easiest content in this game even more brain dead. Those two seem unrelated.

[Sobx.1758]

No, it can't.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> >

> > >

> > > Making monsters closer to PvP is a positive thing IMO. The more PvE feel like PvP, the more you have to be tactical/smart in the fight.

> > > Not having permanent application of Retaliation/Torment/Confusion is right, but it shouldn't be excluded from PvE.

> > > I would have some monsters block, dodge, have Aegis, have real cooldown on their ability so Chilled/Weakness become useful counters.

> >

> > Most of us who play PVE alot do so because we dont like PVP and how it works, and the toxicity of it. id rather not have it be like PVP at all. So no, IMO its a terrible idea.

>

> Why would you want PvE to be just about dps on a punching bag ?

 

I care less about it being a dps punching and more about making sense for what all classes have available, and not bringing the toxicity that is pvp into pve.

 

not all classes, or elite specs have access to boonstrip, if they did this wouldnt be an issue as one could just throw a boonstrip skill into their build.

 

Not everyone is capable of or wants to be forced to play with another player 100% of the time, yes this is an MMO but that doesnt mean "YOU MUST ALWAYS PLAY WITH PEOPLE" This MMO has thankfully done very well without forcing that idea, and it never should be forced either.

 

Not enough players ever have or ever will run support classes in PVE to warrant giving retal to regular mobs, bosses, fine, im okay with that as bosses -should- be challenging to fight, and ive never complained about any boss aside from the serpents ire bosses and thats only due to how few people do it. Any boon that locks players out of using skills because the mobs can pop the boon -whenever they want to- is not healthy for the game IMO, and should never be added, its cheap, its frustrating, and it does nothing to make the game more fun.

 

Thankfully, i havent played my ele at all for this or id actually be annoyed and pissed off instead of just talking about my opinion on the matter. Thankfully ANET is adding OOC weapon swap for eles so ill be able to decide what weapon to use before engaging in combat with mobs that are known to have retal which was my biggest concern and issue with mobs having access to it.

 

But, since you and others in this thread want to make this a black or white issue of "Casuals VS elitists" ill see my way out, its nonconstructive to respond to people who do so. This is open world PVE, not Raids, WVW, or PVP and such mechanics need to stick to those places where cooperation between players is expected and required, its not and should never be in open world PVE IMO.

 

Fare thee well.

 

 

 

[Lottie.5370]

I haven't read the entire thread because there are too many posts... but the Murellow only gets retaliation if he hits you with his chomp. You can do the entire fight without him ever getting retaliation, just have the person with fixation dodge around.

 

I'm aware that you'll get people afk DPSing and it will likely get it, but then you just have to not fast attack, use your heavy hitting one-hit skills for the most part. It's just another mechanic to play around, and it's not hard.

[DaFishBob.6518]

Personally I'd want retaliation changed over eliminated in PVE. I'd want the damage to use the scaling of whatever attack is hitting the target with retaliation and be affected by toughness and damage reducing effects like protection.

[casualkenny.9817]

(I only read the first pg)

 

Sounds like a soln is to,

 

Firstly, all dots activated before retal triggers deal no (or sharply reduced) reflect.

 

Secondly, make the retal noticeable when in a fireworks show. (there have been boss fights where I don't even know what they look like or where they are)

 

 

-

 

Alternatively, give each count of retal a max range of (source distance) x 1.2