[Strike Mission] Boneskinner after patch too hard (by bug) ?

[khani.4786]

I love this fight now. People have to actually DO mechanics. My only wish is that they'd add the supreme rune of holding as an uncommon drop to the Boneskinner. Not drop like candy, but enough to entice people to get better at this fight and have a non ecto gamble way of getting those runes.

[Fueki.4753]

I'd rather have them add the invisible shoes box to Strike missions and massively increase the drop rate.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> I'd rather have them add the invisible shoes box to Strike missions and massively increase the drop rate.

 

Which would massively devalue the item and then players will be quickly right back where we are now with the strikes not being rewarding.

[Fueki.4753]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > I'd rather have them add the invisible shoes box to Strike missions and massively increase the drop rate.

> Which would massively devalue the item and then players will be quickly right back where we are now with the strikes not being rewarding.

 

It devalues an item that literally is "nothing" and shouldn't have been an item in the first place.

There is no problem with removing one or two of the zeros after the decimal dot of the drop rate for an item that should have been introduced as a toggle.

 

 

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > I'd rather have them add the invisible shoes box to Strike missions and massively increase the drop rate.

> > Which would massively devalue the item and then players will be quickly right back where we are now with the strikes not being rewarding.

>

> It devalues an item that literally is "nothing" and shouldn't have been an item in the first place.

> There is no problem with removing one or two of the zeros after the decimal dot of the drop rate for an item that should have been introduced as a toggle.

>

>

 

That’s your opinion that it should have been introduced as a toggle. Just because you don’t hold any value for it doesn’t mean that others do not.

[ReActif.9251]

Note to players:

don't come and post simple questions for other players, generally don't look for answers for other players or we'll even pick you up elsewhere than on the forum to take your lead, it's epic now

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > I'd rather have them add the invisible shoes box to Strike missions and massively increase the drop rate.

> > > Which would massively devalue the item and then players will be quickly right back where we are now with the strikes not being rewarding.

> >

> > It devalues an item that literally is "nothing" and shouldn't have been an item in the first place.

> > There is no problem with removing one or two of the zeros after the decimal dot of the drop rate for an item that should have been introduced as a toggle.

> >

> >

>

> That’s your opinion that it should have been introduced as a toggle. Just because you don’t hold any value for it doesn’t mean that others do not.

 

Come on. There's really no sense behind items that are only exchanged via an external website that isn't even in the hands of Arenanet. In addition there's no indication that making some drops a little bit more easier to obtain than right now will hurt the game, the population or anyone else. They would still be special but not impossible to get. At the moment only ingame whales and maybe a lucky person here or there that doesn't sell the item and keep it for their own.

[lare.5129]

yes, it too hard. We make squad, do 5 trying.. get nut luck. Raid over. Strike mission in Bjora s removed from my dayli content.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > > I'd rather have them add the invisible shoes box to Strike missions and massively increase the drop rate.

> > > > Which would massively devalue the item and then players will be quickly right back where we are now with the strikes not being rewarding.

> > >

> > > It devalues an item that literally is "nothing" and shouldn't have been an item in the first place.

> > > There is no problem with removing one or two of the zeros after the decimal dot of the drop rate for an item that should have been introduced as a toggle.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > That’s your opinion that it should have been introduced as a toggle. Just because you don’t hold any value for it doesn’t mean that others do not.

>

> Come on. There's really no sense behind items that are only exchanged via an external website that isn't even in the hands of Arenanet. In addition there's no indication that making some drops a little bit more easier to obtain than right now will hurt the game, the population or anyone else. They would still be special but not impossible to get. At the moment only ingame whales and maybe a lucky person here or there that doesn't sell the item and keep it for their own.

 

They’re also sold on the TP. They’re also selling for slightly more than a legendary weapon. So unless you’re making the assertion that anyone who has been able to afford to make a Legendary weapon is a whale, I don’t believe that is a correct descriptor.

[Randulf.7614]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> I'd rather have them add the invisible shoes box to Strike missions and massively increase the drop rate.

 

I like the idea of something like that in the reward. I would prob choose something more interesting or better since I agree the shoes should be a toggle and not a drop and if they must be a drop, the existing source should be vastly improved.

 

Maybe an exclusive set of ascended weapons ala Tequatl. Or an infusion (I hate those, but they seem a popular draw)

[sokeenoppa.5384]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> yes, it too hard. We make squad, do 5 trying.. get nut luck. Raid over. Strike mission in Bjora s removed from my dayli content.

 

Did you guys know what you need to do there or did you just yolo 5 times and quit?

[Randulf.7614]

Is the open world version changed too? He seems to go into cc phase almost immediately after consuming an npc now when before you had a decent grace period.

[Yasi.9065]

> @"ReActif.9251" said:

> Hi, I would like to have feedback from other players about the Boneskinner after the December 5th patch.

>

> Many of us understood of course that there was a bug in the past because it was far too easy, far too much and it came from the failure of its game mechanics. But after the patch many consider that the developers have not done a test because it seems to have become much too hard, there are several hypotheses that go from the fact that the torches would not do well what they have to do, or that its aura is too high, etc....

>

> What do you think of that?

> Did you manage to do it after the patch?

>

> On our side on several guild there was only one group that managed to do it and yet they found that this one had become too hard for a simple strike mission boss and they too had the impression that there was something wrong with its operation.

>

> 

>

> ----------

> **Edition :** _repost my last answer to close my question._

>

> Thank you for the answers with arguments.

> This makes it possible to confirm the normality of this fight and therefore to exclude the hypotheses that some had an abnormal (_although necessary_) difficulty.

> After reading all the posts (_except those that have nothing to say_) it appears that it is considered balanced (_regardless of the individual point of view_)

> I will be able to give them the information that they will not have to hope for any changes.

 

Is the boneskinner strikemission too difficult? Hmm, somewhat.

Why? Because its a strikemission and considering the other strikemissions before, the jump in difficulty is too big.

Theres also the fact that you get punished for doing the torch mechanic when its way easier to stack 3-4 fullhealers and just cheese it. Im sure, stacking healers to ignore the mechanics was not what the devs had in mind to teach with this strikemission.

 

The mechanic at 75% etc that puts out all torches (boneskinner jumps up) needs a graceperiod before putting the debuffstacks on everybody so everyone (with swiftness) can run out to a torch and re-light it, without dieing halfway there.

On the other hand (haha!) the aoe circle mechanic needs to continue below 80%, because thats a really good way of teaching players to watch their surroundings.

 

With those small adjustments thats going to be a really good strikemission, a step up towards teaching mechanics without forcing specialized builds.

[Kelly.7019]

The Boneskinner strike mission is way too hard considering the mix of players. Strike missions should fall somewhere BETWEEN world bosses and raid bosses. It should not be the difficulty level of a raid boss. I see posts in the LFG for RAID META builds for strike missions :/ and it most definitely should NOT be this way. If it were a raid training tool (which from my understanding it's not, it is it's own separate thing.) it could have similar mechanics but those mechanics should be easier allowing people to learn and not constantly wipe.

 

I think the main problem here is there is too much damage from this strike mission on to players and people are not ready for that. The previous 3 Strike mission bosses were basically a walk in the park and the difficulty level didn't ramp up much. Strikes should slowly ramp up in difficulty which might just be different kinds of fights. This smackdown is just too much. Turn the damage meter down a bit and i think it would be a better fight and helpful for people learning mechanics.

 

[Ayrilana.1396]

It’s not at the difficulty of a raid boss though. The issue is that players are choosing not to learn, and execute, mechanics. I’ve been in some fail groups where players who were assigned torches chose not to do them.

[Fueki.4753]

> @"Yasi.9065" said:

> On the other hand (haha!) the aoe circle mechanic needs to continue below 80%, because thats a really good way of teaching players to watch their surroundings.

If they'd just turn down particle density from player effects, It'd help with that point.

One of my friends complains about Red Mage Limit breaks in FF14, but that's nothing compared to how blinding GW2 particles can be.

[XatraZaytrax.2601]

Last night was the first opportunity I had to do the boneskinner strike mission. I was determined to put in the time to learn it. I mean, I once was in a group that was willing to take four hours to successfully do a mote boss in pof, so I understood what it might take to get there. I hopped on a toon that I put a raid build on -- one I got off the forums and it is one of my toons that has full ascended. In the first three groups I got in never even got to the boss part. When we finally got 10 players one of then said something rude then left, and the tag said something about lepers and left, and the group dissolved. The next two dissolved when players admitted this was their first time doing the strike, first the commander would leave and then all would follow. Never any talk about build or mechanics.

 

The fourth group finally made it to the boss. No one knew much except keep the torches lit. We did a yolo, cause what better way to see what is going on. We wipe real fast and everyone leaves. Fifth group we seem to be a bit better. We talk about healing and how maybe we need to kill wisps. We go at it and live for a bit, but the aoe gets us. But, huzzah -- I think -- no one left. We talk more about what needs to be done, about healing, about designating people for wisps and torches. Then charge in. We are doing really good, get the boss at half health before people start to falter, and die.

 

After we lose, one person quits, saying "we'll never get this," which is ok. We could still try again, but when we just get started and are doing ok -- before anyone starts dying, two more tap out and we collapse. Couldn't find another group.

 

So is the boss impossible? No. Is it easily learnable? Not the way this game is designed. Like most games, bosses -- well good ones -- are like puzzles to be figured out. The harder the puzzle and the worst the player is at puzzles, the harder the fight. It takes patients and time to pick to threads if you can't just brute force the mechanics. And people have to have role and play those roles.

 

But for what I thought was supposed to be partly tutorial content, there is no tutorial. Even in story boss fights Anet throws an occasional bone, like "aurene wants to help you." If anet is waiting for more experienced players to help less experienced ones figure it out, kitten will freeze over first. What would be the harm to give advice to those who need it, maybe an optional tutorial npc. Those who are able or willing to do it themselves can do it, and those of us learning can learn. I am not even suggesting nerfing the bosses, but giving enough hints to help get through. And once again I am asking for suggested builds like they do in Elder Scrolls. It helped me become better at group content and have me unsnarky help at getting a good build.

[Kelly.7019]

> @"XatraZaytrax.2601" said:

i like what you said.

 

Yeah basically those first couple paragraphs are my experience with raids. :/ From what i've read on the forums and doing the fight myself i know its possible to beat but the issue here is difficulty level for the masses who are interested in strikes and not just for people who already raid and have proper gear & figuring out the mechanics. Anet should just call them raid training missions if that is what they are, but anyways. It seems much more like a random group on discord working together should be able to beat this boss, but what seems to happen like **always** if its too hard from the start, the group splinters after a few wipes.

 

Strikes shouldn't be raid groups. Pug groups with patience (not for hours) should be able to beat this. More Beta testing is needed i think with a bigger pool of casuals. Otherwise it's just more content for raiders.

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> They’re also sold on the TP. They’re also selling for slightly more than a legendary weapon. So unless you’re making the assertion that anyone who has been able to afford to make a Legendary weapon is a whale, I don’t believe that is a correct descriptor.

 

I'm not talking about items in the price range of legendary weapons - these are totally different and actually of way less value. I'm talking about those you cannot buy via TP because whales already made several buying offers and if you try to get into that order you have to wait aeons because those things aren't going to drop on a daily basis. In that way you would need to wait years to get them via TP. That's why those items aren't listed in the TP and immediately offered at gw2exchange. You can negotiate the deal very fast plus getting more gold for the item due to not having a gold limit.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > > > > I'd rather have them add the invisible shoes box to Strike missions and massively increase the drop rate.

> > > > > > Which would massively devalue the item and then players will be quickly right back where we are now with the strikes not being rewarding.

> > > > >

> > > > > It devalues an item that literally is "nothing" and shouldn't have been an item in the first place.

> > > > > There is no problem with removing one or two of the zeros after the decimal dot of the drop rate for an item that should have been introduced as a toggle.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > That’s your opinion that it should have been introduced as a toggle. Just because you don’t hold any value for it doesn’t mean that others do not.

> > >

> > > Come on. There's really no sense behind items that are only exchanged via an external website that isn't even in the hands of Arenanet. In addition there's no indication that making some drops a little bit more easier to obtain than right now will hurt the game, the population or anyone else. They would still be special but not impossible to get. At the moment only ingame whales and maybe a lucky person here or there that doesn't sell the item and keep it for their own.

> >

> > They’re also sold on the TP. They’re also selling for slightly more than a legendary weapon. So unless you’re making the assertion that anyone who has been able to afford to make a Legendary weapon is a whale, I don’t believe that is a correct descriptor.

>

> I'm not talking about items in the price range of legendary weapons - these are totally different and actually of way less value. I'm talking about those you cannot buy via TP because whales already made several buying offers and if you try to get into that order you have to wait aeons because those things aren't going to drop on a daily basis. In that way you would need to wait years to get them via TP. That's why those items aren't listed in the TP and immediately offered at gw2exchange. You can negotiate the deal very fast plus getting more gold for the item due to not having a gold limit.

 

Well the discussion I was having with the other poster that you joined in on was about the invisible shoes. It was not about the one or two infusions that have many max buy offers on the TP.

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> Well the discussion I was having with the other poster that you joined in on was about the invisible shoes. It was not about the one or two infusions that have many max buy offers on the TP.

 

It was **one** example of rewards. But anyways that doesn't change the fact that the reward system could need some changes. Not to make more loot pinatas but to balance things out that playing every content feels worthy playing but also with difficulty and replayability in mind.

 

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > Well the discussion I was having with the other poster that you joined in on was about the invisible shoes. It was not about the one or two infusions that have many max buy offers on the TP.

>

> It was **one** example of rewards. But anyways that doesn't change the fact that the reward system could need some changes. Not to make more loot pinatas but to balance things out that playing every content feels worthy playing but also with difficulty and replayability in mind.

>

 

And the discussion was about that specific example.

[Dante.1763]

> @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > > @"Moi.5013" said:

> > > > the rewards are not reflective of the difficulty.....

> > >

> > > Dhuum raid boss gives you 2 gold and 1 random exotic weekly when you kill it and its considered as hardest boss in game. So strike rewards are perfectly fine.

> >

> > This. If strike rewards get buffed, raid rewards better get doubled/tripled.

>

> Yeah. Not sure why strike missions even need better rewards anyways. They are a learning bridge to raids, might aswell teach that raids are not rewarding ?

 

The bigger problem i see, is that players are going to lose interest quickly. They already are. I got lucky and did it before the buff, and -everyone- was doing it then. Honestly, SMs need a slower increase in difficulty than they did, or way better rewards. Im not gonna play through the toxicity of what this SM has become for nothing. Raids have legendary armour, what do SMs have that make it worth while? A learning experience? no, because they arent even that, they are either to easy, or to hard right of the get go. Add to that, almost no group wants to do anything but speed run these due to the rewards vanishing over time, which promotes a terrible learning environment which is what these are supposed to be for. Is it working? i dont think so.

[LucianDK.8615]

Did it once for the mp before buff. See no point in running it more, even with the buff. The rewards is not useful anymore. Crafted all restored boreal weapons.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Raknar.4735" said:

> Not a good attitude to have, the "stay away"-Attitude.

 

I said, "If you do not have it in you to adjust and learn the mechanics."

What attitude is to say, "This is too hard for me, because I just don't care to learn the mechanics"? That's much worse!

 

As long as ANet does not have the resources (or will) to implement levels of difficulty to choose from, I prefer to have it challenging rather than "kindergarten mode", and I stand by this opinion. If someone doesn't enjoy "challenging", then don't play that particular content - as simple as that. No one is forcing you.