Contested Dungeon mechanic is AWFUL. SICK of it!!

[Selminus.1490]

Just checked every day for 2 weeks for Citadel of Flame to even be OPEN and then it closes again before we can get to the third path. Do you honestly think this motivated people to clear zones? Huge waste of time checking for it and an awful, frustrating mechanic.

[Strider Pj.2193]

It definitely can be frustrating. The two events to open it aren’t very hard and three to five people can clear it fairly quickly.

 

But keep in mind that if it’s just tokens and skins, you could do the WvW reward track to get those also.

 

It’s always open.

[Bron.9647]

It IS a little frustrating. You would think they would keep things like dungeons open all the time. If you have to do a whole quest chain to "unlock" the dungeon, it's a bit of a deterrent for people to even check on the dungeon, much less try to do it. I'm guessing that the reason the dungeon is never open anymore is because everyone is off doing the new content, so there's noone to do the events to keep it open. It would be nice if Anet would just make dungeons be open all the time. The events should all still happen, but a failed event shouldn't close the dungeon. Kind of like the events at the entrance to Arah. They don't close the dungeon down if the events fail. The events still happen and if an event fails it even spawns more enemies in front of the entrance, but the dungeon remains open regardless of the outcome of the events. I think all dungeons should be like this. If the events leading to the dungeon entrance fail, then more enemies should spawn and maybe there should even be repeating AoEs, like in Arah, but the dungeon itself should remain open. Crucible of Eternity has this problem too, I believe.

[Astralporing.1957]

Yes, it's only those two dungeons that can have their access limited that way. By this point in time, you could probably safely do away with it.

[Ultramex.1506]

Doesn't help that not many people do dungeon which lead to not many people do the event, i get it Anet you want the world to be alive but its killing the world by making players loose interest. CoFlame is the worst offender, you have to escort NPCs THAN wait about 6 MINUTES for the gate to open, i should be spending those time in running the dungeon not the requirement to RUN THE DUNGEON. The only reason Arah don't have that because the event require 50 man squad, ironic that Arah isn't empty because of no contested.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

Back in the days CoF would barely get contested because of huge flock of players waiting at the entrance for their teams to assemble and clearing the bridge defense every time it popped up....

 

also iirc Arah used to be contestable in similar fashion - this behavior was removed very quickly once it was realized that players do not like the idea of being locked out of last instance of their personal story (they first removed contestability from Arah, and later on changed last PS step to be instance of it's own instead of telling you to do story mode of a dungeon).

[Fueki.4753]

I don't know about the events for Citadel of Flames, but the "last boss" to open the Crucible of Eternity is required for at least one legendary collections (Flameseeker Prophecies).

 

That aside, people have lamented the existence of these "dungeon blocks".

Seeing how arenanet even fixed methods that allowed people to "bypass" the CoF gate, I doubt Arenanet will ever bother to make them more accessible.

[Lottie.5370]

If you have a Skyscale, you can fly close to the portal even when it is contested and enter (just need to find the right spot). This also works for CoE, unsure about Arah.

[Fueki.4753]

> @"Lottie.5370" said:

> If you have a Skyscale, you can fly close to the portal even when it is contested and enter (just need to find the right spot). This also works for CoE, unsure about Arah.

 

Just wait for more invisible walls being stuck to the gate.

[Lottie.5370]

It's been this way since it was released (edit: I mean since Skyscale release), I'm pretty sure Anet is aware of this, and no effort has been made to add invisible walls.

 

In fact, you have been able to enter contested CoE with Skimmer since that was released too.

 

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

> @"Lottie.5370" said:

> unsure about Arah.

 

Arah does no longer have a gate afaik.

[Westenev.5289]

> @"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:

> > @"Lottie.5370" said:

> > unsure about Arah.

>

> Arah does no longer have a gate afaik.

 

It does, but it's only a physical barrier into the room. The WP and portal are unaffected, I believe.

[TheGrimm.5624]

I will have to disagree, the mechanic of having to do something to open something else is a good one, it can just be counterproductive when it hinders an individual's progress. If anything I would say we need more like this since it lends itself to people working together to achieve a goal. I think we need more dungeons and we need them in the new maps but also feel they should only open after the map's meta is successfully completed granting one more reason for people to want to win the meta since it opens more content. Some of Anets better maps have been modeled after this method as seen by the Silverwastes and a number of the HoT maps which is what also keeps them populated.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> I will have to disagree, the mechanic of having to do something to open something else is a good one, it can just be counterproductive when it hinders an individual's progress. If anything I would say we need more like this since it lends itself to people working together to achieve a goal. I think we need more dungeons and we need them in the new maps but also feel they should only open after the map's meta is successfully completed granting one more reason for people to want to win the meta since it opens more content. Some of Anets better maps have been modeled after this method as seen by the Silverwastes and a number of the HoT maps which is what also keeps them populated.

 

As they have noted there is no more plans for dungeons or their support what they could do is put access points for each of the eight dungeons in the new maps that most relate to that dungeon: like CoF and AC in the blood legion homelands, or CM in the desert, TA somewhere in the HoT maps. Most of the dungeons could have a racial location outside of their original maps depending on the theme of each dungeon.

 

This might allow for improved ‘opening’ of some of the harder to access ones..

[Super Hayes.6890]

> @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> I will have to disagree, the mechanic of having to do something to open something else is a good one, it can just be counterproductive when it hinders an individual's progress. If anything I would say we need more like this since it lends itself to people working together to achieve a goal. I think we need more dungeons and we need them in the new maps but also feel they should only open after the map's meta is successfully completed granting one more reason for people to want to win the meta since it opens more content. Some of Anets better maps have been modeled after this method as seen by the Silverwastes and a number of the HoT maps which is what also keeps them populated.

 

The problem here is that there isn't a lot of motivation to keep this specific map populated. Your idea is fine if they change something about this map to keep more players in it. Otherwise the block should be removed. Group content is only useful if you can assemble a group quickly. If getting a group together becomes a chore players mostly avoid the content.

[TheGrimm.5624]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > I will have to disagree, the mechanic of having to do something to open something else is a good one, it can just be counterproductive when it hinders an individual's progress. If anything I would say we need more like this since it lends itself to people working together to achieve a goal. I think we need more dungeons and we need them in the new maps but also feel they should only open after the map's meta is successfully completed granting one more reason for people to want to win the meta since it opens more content. Some of Anets better maps have been modeled after this method as seen by the Silverwastes and a number of the HoT maps which is what also keeps them populated.

>

> As they have noted there is no more plans for dungeons or their support what they could do is put access points for each of the eight dungeons in the new maps that most relate to that dungeon: like CoF and AC in the blood legion homelands, or CM in the desert, TA somewhere in the HoT maps. Most of the dungeons could have a racial location outside of their original maps depending on the theme of each dungeon.

>

> This might allow for improved ‘opening’ of some of the harder to access ones..

 

They have noted as such, under the old lead developers and game directors.

 

One thing people need to consider with team shifts and lead changes is that what was yesterday may not be tomorrow. Lead changes can be good and bad. Personally in the past I preferred fractals since I hate the stack here to beat a mechanic concept that a lot of dungeons have. But that said dungeons are superior in their concept that you have collections and dungeon currencies to work toward things to collect. I am also not sold on the concept that a dungeon has to tie into the personal story. Dungeons could be great ways to expand on the story. They could be used to give us more insight into a new map/zone/culture. Again to me at least, replayable content needs to be fun, challenging, interesting and rewarding. Dungeons meet a lot of those needs. Add to that mechanics that creates a reason for more people to achieve a goal to allow access to that content engages more players in those metas.

 

That said I understand the other side that it can also lockout that content so alternate ways to open them should also be considered as content ages. Also like the idea of multiple access points to the older dungeons.

[TheGrimm.5624]

> @"Super Hayes.6890" said:

> > @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > I will have to disagree, the mechanic of having to do something to open something else is a good one, it can just be counterproductive when it hinders an individual's progress. If anything I would say we need more like this since it lends itself to people working together to achieve a goal. I think we need more dungeons and we need them in the new maps but also feel they should only open after the map's meta is successfully completed granting one more reason for people to want to win the meta since it opens more content. Some of Anets better maps have been modeled after this method as seen by the Silverwastes and a number of the HoT maps which is what also keeps them populated.

>

> The problem here is that there isn't a lot of motivation to keep this specific map populated. Your idea is fine if they change something about this map to keep more players in it. Otherwise the block should be removed. Group content is only useful if you can assemble a group quickly. If getting a group together becomes a chore players mostly avoid the content.

 

Agree, speaking more at the mechanic of tieing meta events to access of additional content here. Again the more successful maps to me are ones where doing one activity grants access to another.

[Super Hayes.6890]

That is true. When they get it right it is really fun. I hope they re-do some of these core maps someday.

[TheGrimm.5624]

> @"Super Hayes.6890" said:

> That is true. When they get it right it is really fun. I hope they re-do some of these core maps someday.

 

I think they have a lot of potential in the old maps if they tied new content into them and adjusted access that the OP doesn't get limited to because they didn't adjust as times needed. Events, mini-events, mechanisms that allow one to lead to another. Again MMOs are about people doing things together to achieve goals. Remember the time when you saw a horde of people all going somewhere, it triggers that, what's going on there vibe that encourages you to go and look. If they do the meta right you reach those moments.

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Ultramex.1506" said:

> Doesn't help that not many people do dungeon which lead to not many people do the event, i get it Anet you want the world to be alive but its killing the world by making players loose interest. CoFlame is the worst offender, you have to escort NPCs THAN wait about 6 MINUTES for the gate to open, i should be spending those time in running the dungeon not the requirement to RUN THE DUNGEON. The only reason Arah don't have that because the event require 50 man squad, ironic that Arah isn't empty because of no contested.

 

The amount of people doing dungeons doesn't actually matter. This was a problem waaaaaaaaaaaaay back at the height of CoF p1 farming. I remember doing a session of that once. You do one run, come out and the dungeon is contested, do another run, come back and contested again, etc.

 

[Fueki.4753]

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> You do one run, come out and the dungeon is contested, do another run, come back and contested again, etc.

This sounds more like a problem of the overflow maps we used to have, back when players were plentiful everywhere and maps often were full.

Basically, you opened the gate in one overflow and after your run, you got dropped into another overflow with the gate closed.

 

 

 

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > You do one run, come out and the dungeon is contested, do another run, come back and contested again, etc.

> This sounds more like a problem of the overflow maps we used to have, back when players were plentiful everywhere and maps often were full.

> Basically, you opened the gate in one overflow and after your run, you got dropped into another overflow with the gate closed.

>

>

>

 

The end result is the same ...

 

 

[Skotlex.7580]

We must remember that dungeons have low demand, and probably we don't need to add reasons to spread out the game's population further. The way the dailies are set up now (including the LS3/4 ones) allow players to congregate on specific maps.

 

So I'd agree that it shouldn't be needed to uncontest dungeons in order to enter.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"Skotlex.7580" said:

> We must remember that dungeons have low demand, and probably we don't need to add reasons to spread out the game's population further. The way the dailies are set up now (including the LS3/4 ones) allow players to congregate on specific maps.

>

> **So I'd agree that it shouldn't be needed to uncontest dungeons in order to enter.**

 

Got it, because delaying people from finishing the paths on a dungeon will get them to those season 3/4 maps faster.

 

 

[XYLO.7031]

OP, I agree. Open world should not interfere with instanced, closed content and vice-versa.