Concerned about the upcoming big balance

[Hederrain.9207]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> Greatsword F1 is a slow, highly telegraphed skill that can only be landed in 130 range. Warrior is one of the only classes stuck at 130 range to do any damage and also has clunky and buggy mobility skills. 9k is fine.

 

9k is fine? thats more than half the hp for 90% of the classes atm in 1 shot. and not like its hard to land with the cc warrior has acces to. from a holo perspective my hardest hitting skill is prime light beam that crits for 7.5k, thats a 60 sec cd ELITE skill vs 1 adrenaline burst 8 sec cd skill xD

 

dmg is fine, nothing to see here /o/

[witcher.3197]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > @"witcher.3197" said:

> > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > I’m concerned because there seems to be a misconception that damage is too high.

> >

> > Are you out of your mind? Damage on average is about 300% higher than what we had pre-HoT. The powercreep is insane in this game. It's as if they have raised the level cap but forgot to adjust the HP.

>

> It feels fine to me. In fact if anything I would say sustain feels higher than damage atm.

 

Because they raised sustain to match the damage over time.. right now if you spend 1.5 seconds in a fight without dodging/blocking you're dead because any random source of damage can blow you up. That's not fine.

 

Their plan is to lower both damage and sustain which they should've done 4 years ago, they literally had to bring in new guys who understand the concept of powercreep to fix the balance.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > > @"Khalisto.5780" said:

> > > > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Khalisto.5780" said:

> > > > > > > > nerfing all the one man army builds should be ok, their over all dmg and sustain. If they do that they also have to nerf some role buids, like scrapper and firebrand sustain.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Im kinda ok with one shots as long as you dont have a lot of everything else along with it, I think fresh weaver and power mesmer are the best examples of it

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > While I'd rank their burst 100 they lack sustain and you have to work on your positioning to stay alive. But every other meta build has like a rank 80 burst while also having similar sustain and mobility, holo, war, weaver are the ones that come to my mind with crazy burst and sustain and good mobility

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > How does Warrior have crazy burst and sustain? Spellbreaker has strong damage and excellent sustain, but it's hardly OP burst (especially not since Rampage was nerfed). Infact Spellbreaker barely has burst at all. I can't think of a single OP burst skill on Spellbreaker. Then you have Berserker with TRASH sustain but amazing burst. If Berserker burst gets nerfed then you might aswell bury the spec entirely because the sustain is hot trash.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Khalisto.5780" said:

> > > > > > > > nerfing all the one man army builds should be ok, their over all dmg and sustain. If they do that they also have to nerf some role buids, like scrapper and firebrand sustain.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Im kinda ok with one shots as long as you dont have a lot of everything else along with it, I think fresh weaver and power mesmer are the best examples of it

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > While I'd rank their burst 100 they lack sustain and you have to work on your positioning to stay alive. But every other meta build has like a rank 80 burst while also having similar sustain and mobility, holo, war, weaver are the ones that come to my mind with crazy burst and sustain and good mobility

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > How does Warrior have crazy burst and sustain? Spellbreaker has strong damage and excellent sustain, but it's hardly OP burst (especially not since Rampage was nerfed). Infact Spellbreaker barely has burst at all. I can't think of a single OP burst skill on Spellbreaker. Then you have Berserker with TRASH sustain but amazing burst. If Berserker burst gets nerfed then you might aswell bury the spec entirely because the sustain is hot trash.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I still see some 9k from gs f1, the gs spin has some high crits as well. I think warrior has the best suatained dmg of all classes, when I fight them i don't feel i have time to breathe. Sure they should have unnerfed gs f1 and FC dmg when they nerfed rampage.

> > > > >

> > > > > Greatsword F1 is a slow, highly telegraphed skill that can only be landed in 130 range. Warrior is one of the only classes stuck at 130 range to do any damage and also has clunky and buggy mobility skills. 9k is fine.

> > > >

> > > > Warriors GS F1, is 1/2s Cast time skill. Wouldnt call it slow, expecially since it can be combined with quickness or after cancelling dash to suprise oponents.

> > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcing_Slice

> > > > Its range is also 150 not 130.

> > >

> > > Anything can be combined with quickness. And the telegraphing is obvious imo, it's not an OP skill in any sense. 9k damage isn't even that high. It's a burst skill, what should it do on a glass build? Autoattack damage? And yeah my mistake, GS F1 is 150 range unlike the usual 130. But that's still very short. Getting into that range in the first place with no port is another thing entirely, anyone who has a brain won't be in melee range of a Warrior without CDs up. Just my argument for why Warrior skills are fine to hit quite hard, because landing them is more difficult than other classes.

> >

> > If you call Meta SPB warrior Glass canon, I invite you to play

> > Illu/Domi/Dueling berserker mesmer, so you can feel what actual glass canon feels like.

> > Spb can troll 1v1 infinitely, I just cant accept it as a glass canon. sorry.

> > What arcing is SPAMMABLE burst skill, its damage is frontloaded. You dont have to use more then 1 bar of adrenaline becouse all damage happens with 1 bar.

>

> Maybe you misunderstood, I meant glass simply as in using zerk amulet, that was my bad. I don't think spb is glassy at all of course, quite the opposite. And arcing isn't spammable by design. Adrenaline isn't free.

 

why in the world would SPB use berserker amulet???

it doesnt even scale well with power due to all the free stats spb gets from 25might, extra power from might, power on GS AND attackers insight.

extra power from berserker provides almost NO damage bonus, while you sacrifice crit and toughtness. Use demo, have same dmg and be more tanky

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

> @"Hederrain.9207" said:

> > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > Greatsword F1 is a slow, highly telegraphed skill that can only be landed in 130 range. Warrior is one of the only classes stuck at 130 range to do any damage and also has clunky and buggy mobility skills. 9k is fine.

>

> 9k is fine? thats more than half the hp for 90% of the classes atm in 1 shot. and not like its hard to land with the cc warrior has acces to. from a holo perspective my hardest hitting skill is prime light beam that crits for 7.5k, thats a 60 sec cd ELITE skill vs 1 adrenaline burst 8 sec cd skill xD

>

> dmg is fine, nothing to see here /o/

 

It's a burst skill. Is it so hard to dodge, use your own skills, kite, etc? You say Warrior has CC and that's true. So if you also failed to dodge this or avoid it, ok, so this is where you use stunbreak. If all that failed, yeah, you get hit for 9k. Only half hp, really not that much for a burst skill delivered by a zerk amulet spellbreaker at high might stacks (cause that's what arcing slice would need to do that damage). It's not like you don't have a heal you can use or mobility. I don't get the complaint tbh.

[Ragnar.4257]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> But in my opinion damage is actually fine

 

Yeah, that's your problem right there.

 

This is your opinion.

 

Not an objective fact.

 

Most people in the game feel that damage has been power-crept too far (as has sustain, cleansing, condi spam, boon spam etc etc). All you have to do to see evidence of this is read the threads on this Forum.

 

Should ANet make choices based on the 1 guy who thinks everything's fine, or on the 99% of players who want stuff toned down?

[Hederrain.9207]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> It's a burst skill. Is it so hard to dodge, use your own skills, kite, etc? You say Warrior has CC and that's true. So if you also failed to dodge this or avoid it, ok, so this is where you use stunbreak. If all that failed, yeah, you get hit for 9k. Only half hp, really not that much for a burst skill delivered by a zerk amulet spellbreaker at high might stacks (cause that's what arcing slice would need to do that damage). It's not like you don't have a heal you can use or mobility. I don't get the complaint tbh.

 

my complaint is that dmg is too high, warrior's are the biggest offender in my eyes atm with a plethora of dmg multipliers, ez acces to 25 might and the cc to land that dmg. holo is in the same ballgame in that regard. they dont have the same burst but higher sustained dmg and more aoe focused. still too much for my liking

thinking 50% hp gone in 1 skill is fine . just wow

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

> @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > But in my opinion damage is actually fine

>

> Yeah, that's your problem right there.

>

> This is your opinion.

>

> Not an objective fact.

>

> Most people in the game feel that damage has been power-crept too far (as has sustain, cleansing, condi spam, boon spam etc etc). All you have to do to see evidence of this is read the threads on this Forum.

>

> Should ANet make choices based on the 1 guy who thinks everything's fine, or on the 99% of players who want stuff toned down?

 

If you read my post, I say that there's a misconception that damage is too high and that in my opinion damage is fine. So I'm already well aware other people feel damage is too high.

 

My concern was actually that I hope the balance team doesn't reduce build diversity by removing high damage on abilities which clearly need to be high damage abilities. It'll just create a bunker meta instead of what we have now. And most people actually say that right now balance isn't so bad at all.

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

> @"Hederrain.9207" said:

> > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > It's a burst skill. Is it so hard to dodge, use your own skills, kite, etc? You say Warrior has CC and that's true. So if you also failed to dodge this or avoid it, ok, so this is where you use stunbreak. If all that failed, yeah, you get hit for 9k. Only half hp, really not that much for a burst skill delivered by a zerk amulet spellbreaker at high might stacks (cause that's what arcing slice would need to do that damage). It's not like you don't have a heal you can use or mobility. I don't get the complaint tbh.

>

> my complaint is that dmg is too high, warrior's are the biggest offender in my eyes atm with a plethora of dmg multipliers, ez acces to 25 might and the cc to land that dmg. holo is in the same ballgame in that regard. they dont have the same burst but higher sustained dmg and more aoe focused. still too much for my liking

> thinking 50% hp gone in 1 skill is fine . just wow

 

Can't dodge point blank skill, just wow

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > @"Hederrain.9207" said:

> > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > Greatsword F1 is a slow, highly telegraphed skill that can only be landed in 130 range. Warrior is one of the only classes stuck at 130 range to do any damage and also has clunky and buggy mobility skills. 9k is fine.

> >

> > 9k is fine? thats more than half the hp for 90% of the classes atm in 1 shot. and not like its hard to land with the cc warrior has acces to. from a holo perspective my hardest hitting skill is prime light beam that crits for 7.5k, thats a 60 sec cd ELITE skill vs 1 adrenaline burst 8 sec cd skill xD

> >

> > dmg is fine, nothing to see here /o/

>

> It's a burst skill. Is it so hard to dodge, use your own skills, kite, etc? You say Warrior has CC and that's true. So if you also failed to dodge this or avoid it, ok, so this is where you use stunbreak. If all that failed, yeah, you get hit for 9k. Only half hp, really not that much for a burst skill delivered by a zerk amulet spellbreaker at high might stacks (cause that's what arcing slice would need to do that damage). It's not like you don't have a heal you can use or mobility. I don't get the complaint tbh.

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/BYNvCDF

8,3k Dmg against heavy golem.

Demolisher amulet. ( - 500 offensive stats )

NO peak performance. ( no 10% dmg bonus )

NO tether ( no 10% dmg bonus )

2/5 Attackers Insight stacks ( would be 135 fero and 135 power more )

And again, its heavy golem.

IF stars align, if this was zerk it would land for 13k+

 

[Ragnar.4257]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > But in my opinion damage is actually fine

> >

> > Yeah, that's your problem right there.

> >

> > This is your opinion.

> >

> > Not an objective fact.

> >

> > Most people in the game feel that damage has been power-crept too far (as has sustain, cleansing, condi spam, boon spam etc etc). All you have to do to see evidence of this is read the threads on this Forum.

> >

> > Should ANet make choices based on the 1 guy who thinks everything's fine, or on the 99% of players who want stuff toned down?

>

> If you read my post, I say that there's a misconception that damage is too high and that in my opinion damage is fine. So I'm already well aware other people feel damage is too high.

>

> My concern was actually that I hope the balance team doesn't reduce build diversity by removing high damage on abilities which clearly need to be high damage abilities. It'll just create a bunker meta instead of what we have now. And most people actually say that right now balance isn't so bad at all.

 

If you're saying that it's a "misconception" then you are saying that it isn't a matter of opinion, and that it's actually an objective measurable fact that other people are getting wrong.

 

Do you have any proof of this?

 

Because all I'm seeing is your opinion that it's fine vs others opinion that it isn't.

 

A "misconception" this does not make. Are you still contending that damage being fine is a fact, or will you concede that it's just your opinion?

[otto.5684]

Honestly, I highly doubt the patch will change much. They will probably reduce boon stacking a bit. Nerf weaver, FB and rev a bit. If you expecting more, you will be disappointed.

[Hederrain.9207]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > @"Hederrain.9207" said:

> > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > It's a burst skill. Is it so hard to dodge, use your own skills, kite, etc? You say Warrior has CC and that's true. So if you also failed to dodge this or avoid it, ok, so this is where you use stunbreak. If all that failed, yeah, you get hit for 9k. Only half hp, really not that much for a burst skill delivered by a zerk amulet spellbreaker at high might stacks (cause that's what arcing slice would need to do that damage). It's not like you don't have a heal you can use or mobility. I don't get the complaint tbh.

> >

> > my complaint is that dmg is too high, warrior's are the biggest offender in my eyes atm with a plethora of dmg multipliers, ez acces to 25 might and the cc to land that dmg. holo is in the same ballgame in that regard. they dont have the same burst but higher sustained dmg and more aoe focused. still too much for my liking

> > thinking 50% hp gone in 1 skill is fine . just wow

>

> Can't dodge point blank skill, just wow

 

if u use arcing slice without cc first yea, dodge ftw. but a **good** war wouldnt do that.

still dosnt take away from my argument that 50% hp gone in 1 skill is bad for the game. regardless of what skill that does it.

[Alin.2468]

They shave the PvP game for 7 years, and it's still the same PvP rebalanced here and there for 7 years (except for SoloQ/DuoQ which has only 3 years). In my opinion it will be another meta shift, to give players something to do, like switching their builds in order to play a bit differently.

[bravan.3876]

I am just worried they will destroy gameplay flow and class mechanics and often lower the skill ceiling/ floor instead increase it, when they go forward with this trade off mess the way they did in the past and when i read they want to look at instant skills during i only have 2-3 things in mind are rly problematic (FA, MoP, MoT) but they most likely will touch way more. Also i hope we will not run into another, way more noobfriendly, bunker meta. We want bad players to die fast, so we want good dmg in the game but we want it in a reactive way that has counterplay and cannot be braindeadly spammed on low cds, in particular not on classes can also facetank for days.

 

Means i think in tendency the sustain (in the first place passive sustain) needs to be reduced a little bit more than dmg. Dmg doesn't even need to be reduced that hard in general. Most important is to balance out the sustain-dmg relation not the overall dmg that can be done. Glassy builds can have burst dmg, semi bunker/ bruiser not. Sustain needs overall way higher opportunity costs in dmg. Only reduce spammable dmg (like less dmg on autoattacks and short cd skills, less dmg on skills that are mainly for cc or utility purposes). That should be enough, don't overnerf dmg in general. Bunker meta was what hurt the game the most in the past.

 

And don't listen to the forum buddies crying the loudest, in particular not for classes where the mechanic needs a few more braincells to understand. Mesmer is the best example, when i see 99,9% of the nerf or rework suggestions for IH or MC even from some Mesmer mains i want to hit my head against a wall. Start to follow balance logic and not the loudest complains you read the most pls.

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

> Greatsword F1 is a slow, highly telegraphed skill that can only be landed in 130 range. Warrior is one of the only classes stuck at 130 range to do any damage and also has clunky and buggy mobility skills. 9k is fine.

 

what telegraphics are we referring to here? a brief moment of winding back the sword that is barely distinguishable from an autoattack with all the visual clutter these days?

[mortrialus.3062]

I think we're all a bit nervous.

 

I do hope @"Cal Cohen.2358" l is ready though because it sounds like they are extensively going through and nerfing literally everything. Like they've set up a barometer for how strong a skill and trait should be based on it's cooldown, and have gone through hammering everything that's deviating from it.

 

> “The big thing we have coming down the line for both PvP and WvW is a major balance update. We’ve talked a little about it on the forums and on the WvW weekly stream, but to reiterate: our main goal is to reevaluate the desired power level for competitive game modes. We’re reviewing every skill and trait in the game to bring them more in line with our goals."

 

Sounds to me like the Wizard of the [Coast's Jedi Curve](

) when it came to Mana in to Power Out for creatures. I do hope he's prepared for an ocean of negative feed back because if everything in the game is getting hammered down balancewise, literally everyone is going to walk away initially angry and upset regardless of whether the changes are good or bad.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> I think we're all a bit nervous.

>

> I do hope @"Cal Cohen.2358" l is ready though because it sounds like they are extensively going through and nerfing literally everything. Like they've set up a barometer for how strong a skill and trait should be based on it's cooldown, and have gone through hammering everything that's deviating from it.

>

> > “The big thing we have coming down the line for both PvP and WvW is a major balance update. We’ve talked a little about it on the forums and on the WvW weekly stream, but to reiterate: our main goal is to reevaluate the desired power level for competitive game modes. We’re reviewing every skill and trait in the game to bring them more in line with our goals."

>

> Sounds to me like the Wizard of the [Coast's Jedi Curve](

) when it came to Mana in to Power Out for creatures. I do hope he's prepared for an ocean of negative feed back because if everything in the game is getting hammered down balancewise, literally everyone is going to walk away initially angry and upset regardless of whether the changes are good or bad.

 

getting pissed off is part of the fun.

If nobody is mad after the patch then the patch was bad.

Alot of passives need to be slapped, singular traits should never provide perma boons.

Looks at mirage regeneration or thiefs vigor/swiftness.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > I think we're all a bit nervous.

> >

> > I do hope @"Cal Cohen.2358" l is ready though because it sounds like they are extensively going through and nerfing literally everything. Like they've set up a barometer for how strong a skill and trait should be based on it's cooldown, and have gone through hammering everything that's deviating from it.

> >

> > > “The big thing we have coming down the line for both PvP and WvW is a major balance update. We’ve talked a little about it on the forums and on the WvW weekly stream, but to reiterate: our main goal is to reevaluate the desired power level for competitive game modes. We’re reviewing every skill and trait in the game to bring them more in line with our goals."

> >

> > Sounds to me like the Wizard of the [Coast's Jedi Curve](

) when it came to Mana in to Power Out for creatures. I do hope he's prepared for an ocean of negative feed back because if everything in the game is getting hammered down balancewise, literally everyone is going to walk away initially angry and upset regardless of whether the changes are good or bad.

>

> getting pissed off is part of the fun.

> If nobody is mad after the patch then the patch was bad.

> Alot of passives need to be slapped, singular traits should never provide perma boons.

> Looks at mirage regeneration or thiefs vigor/swiftness.

 

I know, it's just anyone who's had to be in the driver's seat of an ongoing game knows it can be pretty toxic right now.

 

I think people would shocked to see how glacially slow 2012-2015 gameplay footage looks compared to what we're useful. I don't think I want to see it go back to tha tlevel. Maybe a 10-20% decrease in over all damage, trimming some of the extreme evade/block/invuln chaining some builds have access to, and hit healing to prevent fights from stalling out for longer than a minute straight.

[Axl.8924]

> @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:

> I’m not looking forward to the patch for a few reasons

>

> I think the balance dev is a good guy and has good intentions. But the problem here is that the things that are wrong with gw2 balance is not in the realm of tuning numbers or switching traits around. The issue is MUCH deeper and more fundamental.

>

> I have my own hypothesis about why the game has struggled to be balanced for years now, and I’ve already made my contribution via a WvW thread late last month. But my concern with this patch is that it’s still not touching the fundamental problems of the games balance, and thus we are still going to see imbalance.

>

> Now should TTK go up? Yes it should and I’m all for a change to TTK. But fixing TTK won’t fix balance. That’s key to understand about why this patch won’t be happy unicorns and rainbows.

 

You are correct, it is deep-seeded in the elites themselves which created huge power creep over time. Too many bonuses, also too much hatred of condis meant that most classes except a couple are actually worth doing condis, and because of all the Q_Q Power creep in the form of turning condis into boons and more resist spam and cleanses.

 

The combination of boons plus build in bonuses is insane creating ridiculous damage. 50% damage to players with a barrier? what? that's completely insane and a heavy nerf to not only necro but also this effects Eles and when combined with other things you get insane bonuses to damage vs players.

 

The pof elites are a disaster.

 

weaver throwing out enough burns to insta kill is a disaster

Deadeye going invis and one shotting you with rifle is a disaster

 

They need to not only nerf damage and sustain and boons, but overhaul the elites as well the traits, so they can see the light of day.

 

Chronomancer's with their spam of phantoms was problematic so can we get an overhaul to make chronomancer, not problematic and viable in SPVP? I think it could be good for mesmers, as they seem a little sad.

 

Can we get some fixes to the soulbeast pets and what abilities they can use to make them strong but not overpowered and 1 shot?

 

 

 

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > I think we're all a bit nervous.

> > >

> > > I do hope @"Cal Cohen.2358" l is ready though because it sounds like they are extensively going through and nerfing literally everything. Like they've set up a barometer for how strong a skill and trait should be based on it's cooldown, and have gone through hammering everything that's deviating from it.

> > >

> > > > “The big thing we have coming down the line for both PvP and WvW is a major balance update. We’ve talked a little about it on the forums and on the WvW weekly stream, but to reiterate: our main goal is to reevaluate the desired power level for competitive game modes. We’re reviewing every skill and trait in the game to bring them more in line with our goals."

> > >

> > > Sounds to me like the Wizard of the [Coast's Jedi Curve](

) when it came to Mana in to Power Out for creatures. I do hope he's prepared for an ocean of negative feed back because if everything in the game is getting hammered down balancewise, literally everyone is going to walk away initially angry and upset regardless of whether the changes are good or bad.

> >

> > getting pissed off is part of the fun.

> > If nobody is mad after the patch then the patch was bad.

> > Alot of passives need to be slapped, singular traits should never provide perma boons.

> > Looks at mirage regeneration or thiefs vigor/swiftness.

>

> I know, it's just anyone who's had to be in the driver's seat of an ongoing game knows it can be pretty toxic right now.

>

> I think people would shocked to see how glacially slow 2012-2015 gameplay footage looks compared to what we're useful. I don't think I want to see it go back to tha tlevel. Maybe a 10-20% decrease in over all damage, trimming some of the extreme evade/block/invuln chaining some builds have access to, and hit healing to prevent fights from stalling out for longer than a minute straight.

 

I honestly want the monkey perma evade builds gone, fighting rev 1v3 and he just chain evades for over 20s on node is just honestly pissing me off to no end.

Having them stunned 3 times and just remove all of it back to back is a big yikes too. Sustain of holo, boons across the board. Fb vomit.

Thiefs mobility and evades. Stupid level of might on some classes like engi/war/ele. Passive condi from mirage, it all needs to go.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > I think we're all a bit nervous.

> > > >

> > > > I do hope @"Cal Cohen.2358" l is ready though because it sounds like they are extensively going through and nerfing literally everything. Like they've set up a barometer for how strong a skill and trait should be based on it's cooldown, and have gone through hammering everything that's deviating from it.

> > > >

> > > > > “The big thing we have coming down the line for both PvP and WvW is a major balance update. We’ve talked a little about it on the forums and on the WvW weekly stream, but to reiterate: our main goal is to reevaluate the desired power level for competitive game modes. We’re reviewing every skill and trait in the game to bring them more in line with our goals."

> > > >

> > > > Sounds to me like the Wizard of the [Coast's Jedi Curve](

) when it came to Mana in to Power Out for creatures. I do hope he's prepared for an ocean of negative feed back because if everything in the game is getting hammered down balancewise, literally everyone is going to walk away initially angry and upset regardless of whether the changes are good or bad.

> > >

> > > getting pissed off is part of the fun.

> > > If nobody is mad after the patch then the patch was bad.

> > > Alot of passives need to be slapped, singular traits should never provide perma boons.

> > > Looks at mirage regeneration or thiefs vigor/swiftness.

> >

> > I know, it's just anyone who's had to be in the driver's seat of an ongoing game knows it can be pretty toxic right now.

> >

> > I think people would shocked to see how glacially slow 2012-2015 gameplay footage looks compared to what we're useful. I don't think I want to see it go back to tha tlevel. Maybe a 10-20% decrease in over all damage, trimming some of the extreme evade/block/invuln chaining some builds have access to, and hit healing to prevent fights from stalling out for longer than a minute straight.

>

> I honestly want the monkey perma evade builds gone, fighting rev 1v3 and he just chain evades for over 20s on node is just honestly pissing me off to no end.

> Having them stunned 3 times and just remove all of it back to back is a big yikes too. Sustain of holo, boons across the board. Fb vomit.

> Thiefs mobility and evades. Stupid level of might on some classes like engi/war/ele. Passive condi from mirage, it all needs to go.

 

I would love for classes that have Innate low sustain and are designed to use mobility and evade chains to avoid being 2 or 3 shot get nerfed to the ground so they all become easy kills,1/4 or 1/3 of the already low playerbase say f this and quit forcing the devs to boost their sustain In other means making them seem OP again resulting in a full circle if the game survived the player drop that is lol be fun.

A rev or thief without evade chains might as well just commit suicide before every fight lol

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > I think we're all a bit nervous.

> > > > >

> > > > > I do hope @"Cal Cohen.2358" l is ready though because it sounds like they are extensively going through and nerfing literally everything. Like they've set up a barometer for how strong a skill and trait should be based on it's cooldown, and have gone through hammering everything that's deviating from it.

> > > > >

> > > > > > “The big thing we have coming down the line for both PvP and WvW is a major balance update. We’ve talked a little about it on the forums and on the WvW weekly stream, but to reiterate: our main goal is to reevaluate the desired power level for competitive game modes. We’re reviewing every skill and trait in the game to bring them more in line with our goals."

> > > > >

> > > > > Sounds to me like the Wizard of the [Coast's Jedi Curve](

) when it came to Mana in to Power Out for creatures. I do hope he's prepared for an ocean of negative feed back because if everything in the game is getting hammered down balancewise, literally everyone is going to walk away initially angry and upset regardless of whether the changes are good or bad.

> > > >

> > > > getting pissed off is part of the fun.

> > > > If nobody is mad after the patch then the patch was bad.

> > > > Alot of passives need to be slapped, singular traits should never provide perma boons.

> > > > Looks at mirage regeneration or thiefs vigor/swiftness.

> > >

> > > I know, it's just anyone who's had to be in the driver's seat of an ongoing game knows it can be pretty toxic right now.

> > >

> > > I think people would shocked to see how glacially slow 2012-2015 gameplay footage looks compared to what we're useful. I don't think I want to see it go back to tha tlevel. Maybe a 10-20% decrease in over all damage, trimming some of the extreme evade/block/invuln chaining some builds have access to, and hit healing to prevent fights from stalling out for longer than a minute straight.

> >

> > I honestly want the monkey perma evade builds gone, fighting rev 1v3 and he just chain evades for over 20s on node is just honestly pissing me off to no end.

> > Having them stunned 3 times and just remove all of it back to back is a big yikes too. Sustain of holo, boons across the board. Fb vomit.

> > Thiefs mobility and evades. Stupid level of might on some classes like engi/war/ele. Passive condi from mirage, it all needs to go.

>

> I would love for classes that have Innate low sustain and are designed to use mobility and evade chains to avoid being 2 or 3 shot get nerfed to the ground so they all become easy kills,1/4 or 1/3 of the already low playerbase say f this and quit forcing the devs to boost their sustain In other means making them seem OP again resulting in a full circle if the game survived the player drop that is lol be fun.

 

low sustain like thief loses to holo becouse unlike holo, thief cant fully heal every 25s.

IF holo would lose its sustain alongside thief evade, this would be fair game.

Getting a drop on thief, seing him CHAIN DODGE 7 times and not be punished.

[Zenix.6198]

Burst as a gameplay option is fine.

But tbh, a multi-key combo that takes about 50% of your targets health ALREADY is burst.

It's really only in GW2 where the "burst"-concept is dialed up to 11 by being able to literally oneshot somebody (or at least 100-0 someone in <1 second).

 

Try selling this idea of "burst" to any other MMO and your playerbase will actually revolt.

But in GW2 it apparently is fine and considered skillful cause you are able to dodge attacks.

 

And yes, dodging is a very good mechanic and incentives active and skillful gameplay....but by no means does it justify sub 1 second 100 to 0s just because "just dodge it 4Head".

[XECOR.2814]

Play necro your opinions will change lol

[Gryxis.6950]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

>

> Greatsword F1 is a slow, highly telegraphed skill that can only be landed in 130 range. Warrior is one of the only classes stuck at 130 range to do any damage and also has clunky and buggy mobility skills. 9k is fine.

 

Slow ? Most of my skills take more time to cast and yet i play mesmer