ZDragon.3046 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > @"ZDragon.3046" > Corrupt boon very similar yet very different to AT. > Corrupt boon CAN be defensive, but it depends on the oponents. I dont agree here as i said there are exceptions where it can act as the best defense being the best offense but generally how its used and what it does no its not a defensive skill. > Against holo? Corrupting might works, Fury works, Stab works, swiftness works. > Less might = less damage. Weakness = less damage. > Less fur = less damage + blind. > Stab = fear, hard CC. > Swiftness into cripple gives ALOT of ground against different classes, expecially when you have swiftness yourself. > > Against FB its amazing, Against warrior its amazing, Against ranger its amazing, Against holo its amazing, Against necro its good. You know naming classes with alot of critical boons makes AT good agains them too im just pointing that out. Most things that corrupt boon is good against AT is also good against when used for the aspect of simply removing the boons or pressuring you foe. Yes CB is good against these things but so is AT > Its weak against mesmer ( mesmer doesnt really have important boons to corrupt, no stab, low number of might, fury gets quickly reapplied, regen gets reapplied too ) > Its weak against thief too ( same story as mesmer ) > Its straight up one of the best abilities in the game, fits necro. Has skillfull aspect. I like it. Well boon corruption is a necro's balance tool *cough* i mean feature of the profession. Even still its not the be all end all. > > Now AT. > When you thinka bout it, you before you read about anything, you need to know 1 thing. > Mesmer has GARBAGE condi clear. I mean techncially speaking mesmer has good condition clear skills people just dont use them thus people make the claim that they have bad condi clear. Its more like condi clear is not important enough to invest in alone because the game gives you a offensive tool that can also be used with the defensive aspect clearing condi. Technically speaking there is - Inspiration line which offers lesser condi clear via shatters and phantom summoning - Null Field which offers slow over time condi clear - Mantra of Resolve/Power Cleanse which is more like burst condition removal - Arcane thievery of course which acts as burst removal and offensive pressure tool - There is technically even elusive mind but people dont use that either That said its not that mesmers have garbage condi clear, its more so that people refuse to accept the other tools because it means trading something they dont want to lose which is how the game should technically be. I dont think its fair to say mesmer has garbage condi clear when there are plenty of tools that can make mesmers very resistant to condi should they choose to accept them. Realistically if you built around being condition resistant as a mesmer you would fair just as well as anyone else. > After you accept that you realise that it has VERY different role then corrupt. > In fact AT is more similar to Shake it off from warrior. > Its condi clear, that can be used as something else when the clear is not needed. Not even its more like plague signet with the minimal that something will always happen on hit regardless if boons or conditions are in play. Shake it off and AT are nowhere near the same skills i dont understand the logic here. > In cmirage vs cmirage nobody will use AT to strip boons alone. > First and foremost its condi clear, only and ONLY when you are safe from condis, you think about using it to strip boons. Of course not because its cmirage in that matchup you obviously want to use it more to throw condis back in other matchups its not really the same story though. As we already established Corrupt boon is weak against mesmers for eating their boons because their boons are easily replaced and not as important... same kind of applies to AT here. Side note you also cant say AT is different from other condi clears and has counter play because its not instant removal on button press and in the same breath compare it to shake it off which is exactly that..... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 @"ZDragon.3046" you dont get it. everyone avoids plain condi clear like fire, becouse almost nobody uses condis becouse they SUCK. thats why EVERYONE uses condiclears that have secoundary roles warriors shake it off doubles up as stun removing tool. thiefs shadowstep is the same. mesmer uses AT as damage and clear or boonsteal. necro uses spectral walk for both mobility stunremove AND condi clear. Sure I can take Mantra to cleanse condis but its literarly useless against classes that dont apply condis, meanwhile other have cleanses that have multifunctions like I mentioned. Im not saying Shake it off is the same as AT. Im saying it has similar role in the build like it. Whats the role of corrupt? remove boons, apply condis that lower enemies damage/hard CC. At -> condi clear that deals damage when you clear, cherry on the cake is stealing boons. You take AT to have condi clear against condi spec and to NOT have dead utility against everyone else. Shake it off is good stun removing tool against most AND amazing condi clear against condi, its condi clear that has multi functions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > it should be noted that arcane thievery steals the entire duration of boons. it will always get stab. > > > > > > Arcane Thievery frequently fails to get stab. In fact if there are four boons and stab is one of them, I can almost depend on the skill to NOT get stab. > > > > Corrupt boon is very similar it mostly depends on how many boons are covering the stab. IF there are 4+ boons and stab is at the tail end of the line corrupt boon will not convert it. Stability is the last in the priority list for corrupt boon as far as i know. ITs just the fact that most classes dont have access to every boon in the game which makes it easier to hit on some professions and not so much on others. I want to think AT is the sam way. > > I've never had this problem with either skill. haven't used AT as much tho, but CB? lol. I've used it in zergs and it still gets stab. you're trippin. Depends on what you aimed at and what was most recently applied. if stab is one of the 3 boons to the far left it will get converted... if its beyond the 3rd from the left you will not get it. That said test ive looked up in the past show that as a priority boon stab is last in the list for corrupt boon. (thats probably not true today) For every time you do hit it in a zerg there are probably more times in which you also do not hit it. Just because someone has stab does not mean pressing corrupt boon means instant fear. My several years of necro play can account to that. Considering ive used the skill thousands of times i can confidently say that basically if the boon is covered by other boons you will not corrupt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > it should be noted that arcane thievery steals the entire duration of boons. it will always get stab. > > > > > > > > Arcane Thievery frequently fails to get stab. In fact if there are four boons and stab is one of them, I can almost depend on the skill to NOT get stab. > > > > > > Corrupt boon is very similar it mostly depends on how many boons are covering the stab. IF there are 4+ boons and stab is at the tail end of the line corrupt boon will not convert it. Stability is the last in the priority list for corrupt boon as far as i know. ITs just the fact that most classes dont have access to every boon in the game which makes it easier to hit on some professions and not so much on others. I want to think AT is the sam way. > > > > I've never had this problem with either skill. haven't used AT as much tho, but CB? lol. I've used it in zergs and it still gets stab. you're trippin. > > Depends on what you aimed at and what was most recently applied. if stab is one of the 3 boons to the far left it will get converted... if its beyond the 3rd from the left you will not get it. That said test ive looked up in the past show that as a priority boon stab is last in the list for corrupt boon. (thats probably not true today) For every time you do hit it in a zerg there are probably more times in which you also do not hit it. Just because someone has stab does not mean pressing corrupt boon means instant fear. My several years of necro play can account to that. Considering ive used the skill thousands of times i can confidently say that basically if the boon is covered by other boons you will not corrupt it. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/90781/list-of-skill-and-trait-boon-rip-priority-here Dunno if its 100% legit or not but from the read NECROMANCER Corrupt Boon - stab + swift + retal, resist + prot + vigor, aegis + might + alac, regen + quick + fury seems stab is hight on priority. but from what I played it doesnt seem to work like that, its annoying and timeconsuming to test anyways. Stuff like this should be provided by developers in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > it should be noted that arcane thievery steals the entire duration of boons. it will always get stab. > > > > Arcane Thievery frequently fails to get stab. In fact if there are four boons and stab is one of them, I can almost depend on the skill to NOT get stab. > > Corrupt boon is very similar it mostly depends on how many boons are covering the stab. IF there are 4+ boons and stab is at the tail end of the line corrupt boon will not convert it. Stability is the last in the priority list for corrupt boon as far as i know. ITs just the fact that most classes dont have access to every boon in the game which makes it easier to hit on some professions and not so much on others. I want to think AT is the sam way. Boon conversion, boon to condi and condi to boon , is **completely random**. Removal is LIFO unless the skill has some other priority like some boon and condi removal skills do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > > it should be noted that arcane thievery steals the entire duration of boons. it will always get stab. > > > > > > > > > > Arcane Thievery frequently fails to get stab. In fact if there are four boons and stab is one of them, I can almost depend on the skill to NOT get stab. > > > > > > > > Corrupt boon is very similar it mostly depends on how many boons are covering the stab. IF there are 4+ boons and stab is at the tail end of the line corrupt boon will not convert it. Stability is the last in the priority list for corrupt boon as far as i know. ITs just the fact that most classes dont have access to every boon in the game which makes it easier to hit on some professions and not so much on others. I want to think AT is the sam way. > > > > > > I've never had this problem with either skill. haven't used AT as much tho, but CB? lol. I've used it in zergs and it still gets stab. you're trippin. > > > > Depends on what you aimed at and what was most recently applied. if stab is one of the 3 boons to the far left it will get converted... if its beyond the 3rd from the left you will not get it. That said test ive looked up in the past show that as a priority boon stab is last in the list for corrupt boon. (thats probably not true today) For every time you do hit it in a zerg there are probably more times in which you also do not hit it. Just because someone has stab does not mean pressing corrupt boon means instant fear. My several years of necro play can account to that. Considering ive used the skill thousands of times i can confidently say that basically if the boon is covered by other boons you will not corrupt it. > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/90781/list-of-skill-and-trait-boon-rip-priority-here > Dunno if its 100% legit or not but from the read > NECROMANCER > Corrupt Boon - stab + swift + retal, resist + prot + vigor, aegis + might + alac, regen + quick + fury > seems stab is hight on priority. > but from what I played it doesnt seem to work like that, its annoying and timeconsuming to test anyways. Stuff like this should be provided by developers in the first place. Can confirm thats not real...... lol The only time thats gonna be real is if stab is one of the 3 recent boons applied if it was the 4th or higher applied you just wont hit it. As you said its strong against warriors and thats because warriors generally dont have more than swiftness might, fury, and stab, (rarely quickness) Thus its easier for corrupt boon to screw them 80% of the time. If you look at firebrand who can have a wide plethora range of boons its often not as easy to hit because they can have almost everything in that list except alacrity. Should stab be sitting at the end of the line on the right you need to go through everything else to hit it. If anet actually prioritized corrupts to hit stab first 100% of the time necros would be in a much stronger place then they are right now. Basically people wouldnt dare bother using stab at all agains them cause it would mean near instant / free damage for landing any skill that corrupted a single boon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > it should be noted that arcane thievery steals the entire duration of boons. it will always get stab. > > > > > > Arcane Thievery frequently fails to get stab. In fact if there are four boons and stab is one of them, I can almost depend on the skill to NOT get stab. > > > > Corrupt boon is very similar it mostly depends on how many boons are covering the stab. IF there are 4+ boons and stab is at the tail end of the line corrupt boon will not convert it. Stability is the last in the priority list for corrupt boon as far as i know. ITs just the fact that most classes dont have access to every boon in the game which makes it easier to hit on some professions and not so much on others. I want to think AT is the sam way. > > Boon conversion, boon to condi and condi to boon , is **completely random**. Removal is LIFO unless the skill has some other priority like some boon and condi removal skills do. The only thing that keeps it feeling random is how fast other professions can reapply boons over the ones you generally want to hit. In the time you can cast corrupt boon followed by any other skill a profession might refresh its boons that were just converted meaning it feels random but based on my exp it seems to be based on whats on the far left in the line. Some one can correct me if im mistaken but thats how im pretty sure it works and thats why some times it can be impossible to cover stab to fear its just hard covered. The same also applies to conditions being converted to boons for most skills its starts on the far left with what was most recently applied in other words if bleed is on the far left and poison is on the far right you will convert the bleed to vigor Most xfers also work this way far left from what was most recently applied are the ones that are sent. IF AT works this way will take some test (will do when i get home) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > @"ZDragon.3046" you dont get it. > everyone avoids plain condi clear like fire, becouse almost nobody uses condis becouse they SUCK. > thats why EVERYONE uses condiclears that have secoundary roles > warriors shake it off doubles up as stun removing tool. > thiefs shadowstep is the same. > mesmer uses AT as damage and clear or boonsteal. > necro uses spectral walk for both mobility stunremove AND condi clear. > > Sure I can take Mantra to cleanse condis but its literarly useless against classes that dont apply condis, meanwhile other have cleanses that have multifunctions like I mentioned. > Im not saying Shake it off is the same as AT. Im saying it has similar role in the build like it. > > Whats the role of corrupt? remove boons, apply condis that lower enemies damage/hard CC. The role of corrupt is to bring other professions down to a similar level of that of the necro. Or that was the original concept and why necro lacks mobility, damage out of shroud, and hard defenses. It was to make them as vulnerable as the necro was/is. > At -> condi clear that deals damage when you clear, cherry on the cake is stealing boons. You take AT to have condi clear against condi spec and to NOT have dead utility against everyone else. Techncially speaking that only accounts for the mantra at best (which actually still has a secondary function just not for the caster) not the other tools which have perfectly fine secondary effects or trigger as the secondary effect. Like i said people dont take these things because it means trading off not because they are bad. I've become some what picky about what people call "dead" in this game. Some times when people say something is "dead" what they are realistically saying is "its balanced." There are some exceptions where something really is dead but those things are very far and few. However you make fair points here But maybe this is what im on about when i say skills doing too much at once. perhaps some skills shouldnt be doing secondary functions or regardless i dont think that makes mesmers condi clear garbage. The tools are there just not used by player choice. Until anet forces people to invest in choices like that globally the game will always be a hot mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > > > it should be noted that arcane thievery steals the entire duration of boons. it will always get stab. > > > > > > > > > > > > Arcane Thievery frequently fails to get stab. In fact if there are four boons and stab is one of them, I can almost depend on the skill to NOT get stab. > > > > > > > > > > Corrupt boon is very similar it mostly depends on how many boons are covering the stab. IF there are 4+ boons and stab is at the tail end of the line corrupt boon will not convert it. Stability is the last in the priority list for corrupt boon as far as i know. ITs just the fact that most classes dont have access to every boon in the game which makes it easier to hit on some professions and not so much on others. I want to think AT is the sam way. > > > > > > > > I've never had this problem with either skill. haven't used AT as much tho, but CB? lol. I've used it in zergs and it still gets stab. you're trippin. > > > > > > Depends on what you aimed at and what was most recently applied. if stab is one of the 3 boons to the far left it will get converted... if its beyond the 3rd from the left you will not get it. That said test ive looked up in the past show that as a priority boon stab is last in the list for corrupt boon. (thats probably not true today) For every time you do hit it in a zerg there are probably more times in which you also do not hit it. Just because someone has stab does not mean pressing corrupt boon means instant fear. My several years of necro play can account to that. Considering ive used the skill thousands of times i can confidently say that basically if the boon is covered by other boons you will not corrupt it. > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/90781/list-of-skill-and-trait-boon-rip-priority-here > > Dunno if its 100% legit or not but from the read > > NECROMANCER > > Corrupt Boon - stab + swift + retal, resist + prot + vigor, aegis + might + alac, regen + quick + fury > > seems stab is hight on priority. > > but from what I played it doesnt seem to work like that, its annoying and timeconsuming to test anyways. Stuff like this should be provided by developers in the first place. > > Can confirm thats not real...... lol > The only time thats gonna be real is if stab is one of the 3 recent boons applied if it was the 4th or higher applied you just wont hit it. > As you said its strong against warriors and thats because warriors generally dont have more than swiftness might, fury, and stab, (rarely quickness) Thus its easier for corrupt boon to screw them 80% of the time. > If you look at firebrand who can have a wide plethora range of boons its often not as easy to hit because they can have almost everything in that list except alacrity. Should stab be sitting at the end of the line on the right you need to go through everything else to hit it. > > If anet actually prioritized corrupts to hit stab first 100% of the time necros would be in a much stronger place then they are right now. Basically people wouldnt dare bother using stab at all agains them cause it would mean near instant / free damage for landing any skill that corrupted a single boon. I don't know what to say. I can't recall CB ever failing to get stab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > > > > it should be noted that arcane thievery steals the entire duration of boons. it will always get stab. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arcane Thievery frequently fails to get stab. In fact if there are four boons and stab is one of them, I can almost depend on the skill to NOT get stab. > > > > > > > > > > > > Corrupt boon is very similar it mostly depends on how many boons are covering the stab. IF there are 4+ boons and stab is at the tail end of the line corrupt boon will not convert it. Stability is the last in the priority list for corrupt boon as far as i know. ITs just the fact that most classes dont have access to every boon in the game which makes it easier to hit on some professions and not so much on others. I want to think AT is the sam way. > > > > > > > > > > I've never had this problem with either skill. haven't used AT as much tho, but CB? lol. I've used it in zergs and it still gets stab. you're trippin. > > > > > > > > Depends on what you aimed at and what was most recently applied. if stab is one of the 3 boons to the far left it will get converted... if its beyond the 3rd from the left you will not get it. That said test ive looked up in the past show that as a priority boon stab is last in the list for corrupt boon. (thats probably not true today) For every time you do hit it in a zerg there are probably more times in which you also do not hit it. Just because someone has stab does not mean pressing corrupt boon means instant fear. My several years of necro play can account to that. Considering ive used the skill thousands of times i can confidently say that basically if the boon is covered by other boons you will not corrupt it. > > > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/90781/list-of-skill-and-trait-boon-rip-priority-here > > > Dunno if its 100% legit or not but from the read > > > NECROMANCER > > > Corrupt Boon - stab + swift + retal, resist + prot + vigor, aegis + might + alac, regen + quick + fury > > > seems stab is hight on priority. > > > but from what I played it doesnt seem to work like that, its annoying and timeconsuming to test anyways. Stuff like this should be provided by developers in the first place. > > > > Can confirm thats not real...... lol > > The only time thats gonna be real is if stab is one of the 3 recent boons applied if it was the 4th or higher applied you just wont hit it. > > As you said its strong against warriors and thats because warriors generally dont have more than swiftness might, fury, and stab, (rarely quickness) Thus its easier for corrupt boon to screw them 80% of the time. > > If you look at firebrand who can have a wide plethora range of boons its often not as easy to hit because they can have almost everything in that list except alacrity. Should stab be sitting at the end of the line on the right you need to go through everything else to hit it. > > > > If anet actually prioritized corrupts to hit stab first 100% of the time necros would be in a much stronger place then they are right now. Basically people wouldnt dare bother using stab at all agains them cause it would mean near instant / free damage for landing any skill that corrupted a single boon. > > I don't know what to say. I can't recall CB ever failing to get stab. Seems to be a bit of inconsistency between different people which means it really needs to be tested in different game modes and everything to be sure. Prob should also put arcane to the test in the same aspect to see what it actually prioritizes on stealing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > it should be noted that arcane thievery steals the entire duration of boons. it will always get stab. > > > > > > > > Arcane Thievery frequently fails to get stab. In fact if there are four boons and stab is one of them, I can almost depend on the skill to NOT get stab. > > > > > > Corrupt boon is very similar it mostly depends on how many boons are covering the stab. IF there are 4+ boons and stab is at the tail end of the line corrupt boon will not convert it. Stability is the last in the priority list for corrupt boon as far as i know. ITs just the fact that most classes dont have access to every boon in the game which makes it easier to hit on some professions and not so much on others. I want to think AT is the sam way. > > > > Boon conversion, boon to condi and condi to boon , is **completely random**. Removal is LIFO unless the skill has some other priority like some boon and condi removal skills do. > > The only thing that keeps it feeling random is how fast other professions can reapply boons over the ones you generally want to hit. In the time you can cast corrupt boon followed by any other skill a profession might refresh its boons that were just converted meaning it feels random but based on my exp it seems to be based on whats on the far left in the line. Some one can correct me if im mistaken but thats how im pretty sure it works and thats why some times it can be impossible to cover stab to fear its just hard covered. > The same also applies to conditions being converted to boons for most skills its starts on the far left with what was most recently applied in other words if bleed is on the far left and poison is on the far right you will convert the bleed to vigor Most xfers also work this way far left from what was most recently applied are the ones that are sent. > > IF AT works this way will take some test (will do when i get home) Again no idea why you need further correction. I've explained how it works. One more time. Unless stated otherwise removal skills will be LIFO and all corruption and conversion skills, again unless stated otherwise, will convert boons and conditions at random. Literally on the patch they did with the conversion tables they stated it's random. Go and find it. Conditions and boons are also applied in a specific order but not to go into too much depth they are applied in the order they read down a skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > > it should be noted that arcane thievery steals the entire duration of boons. it will always get stab. > > > > > > > > > > Arcane Thievery frequently fails to get stab. In fact if there are four boons and stab is one of them, I can almost depend on the skill to NOT get stab. > > > > > > > > Corrupt boon is very similar it mostly depends on how many boons are covering the stab. IF there are 4+ boons and stab is at the tail end of the line corrupt boon will not convert it. Stability is the last in the priority list for corrupt boon as far as i know. ITs just the fact that most classes dont have access to every boon in the game which makes it easier to hit on some professions and not so much on others. I want to think AT is the sam way. > > > > > > Boon conversion, boon to condi and condi to boon , is **completely random**. Removal is LIFO unless the skill has some other priority like some boon and condi removal skills do. > > > > The only thing that keeps it feeling random is how fast other professions can reapply boons over the ones you generally want to hit. In the time you can cast corrupt boon followed by any other skill a profession might refresh its boons that were just converted meaning it feels random but based on my exp it seems to be based on whats on the far left in the line. Some one can correct me if im mistaken but thats how im pretty sure it works and thats why some times it can be impossible to cover stab to fear its just hard covered. > > The same also applies to conditions being converted to boons for most skills its starts on the far left with what was most recently applied in other words if bleed is on the far left and poison is on the far right you will convert the bleed to vigor Most xfers also work this way far left from what was most recently applied are the ones that are sent. > > > > IF AT works this way will take some test (will do when i get home) > > Again no idea why you need further correction. I've explained how it works. One more time. Unless stated otherwise removal skills will be LIFO and all corruption and conversion skills, again unless stated otherwise, will convert boons and conditions at random. > > Literally on the patch they did with the conversion tables they stated it's random. Go and find it. Because sorry if i don't trust some stranger whom i don't really know over internet communication to be 100% correct. (you could be correct but this is not a promise) and you cannot tell me in anyway where i wouldnt be doubtful based on my personal exp with the skills over the past several years. The only thing that you could technically do to make me side with you would be getting a dev in here to confirm that it is infact random. To which if thats the case my reply would be "Thats pretty bad design" Based on my experience these things are not random in fact they tend to be clear cut. For example well of power will continuously convert bleed into vigor over other conditions so long as you can reapply a bleed (as the most recent condition) before it pulses the next clear. IT will not randomly skip the bleed for another condition to convert into a boon randomly. As far as i know Corrupt boon seems to work the same way it hits the most recent boons applied going from left to right. > Conditions and boons are also applied in a specific order but not to go into too much depth they are applied in the order they read down a skill. This part is fine and i think this to be true but your statements above not so much. I think you do not understand me though when i talk about most recent applications if a skill applies bleed then torment the foe will have bleed then torment I a second skill is used that applies weakness and poison then now the order is from newest to oldest weakness, poison, bleed, torment If you use the first skill again the order is still weakness, poison, bleed, torment.... If the target wants to use a skill to convert 2 conditions into boons then only weakness and poison will be targeted, although the skill that last hit you technically applied more stacks of bleed and torment. The only time condition removal or converts to boons skip order is if the skill targets a specific type of condition. For example traits that remove movement imparting conditions or target only damaging conditions. Or only target a set hand full of conditions. Otherwise as far as i know its from most recent aka going from left to right with the left being the most recent condition and the right being the oldest condition. Even if more stacks of the oldest condition are added on it will not move to be the most recent condition applied unless its been removed somehow then reapplied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > > > it should be noted that arcane thievery steals the entire duration of boons. it will always get stab. > > > > > > > > > > > > Arcane Thievery frequently fails to get stab. In fact if there are four boons and stab is one of them, I can almost depend on the skill to NOT get stab. > > > > > > > > > > Corrupt boon is very similar it mostly depends on how many boons are covering the stab. IF there are 4+ boons and stab is at the tail end of the line corrupt boon will not convert it. Stability is the last in the priority list for corrupt boon as far as i know. ITs just the fact that most classes dont have access to every boon in the game which makes it easier to hit on some professions and not so much on others. I want to think AT is the sam way. > > > > > > > > Boon conversion, boon to condi and condi to boon , is **completely random**. Removal is LIFO unless the skill has some other priority like some boon and condi removal skills do. > > > > > > The only thing that keeps it feeling random is how fast other professions can reapply boons over the ones you generally want to hit. In the time you can cast corrupt boon followed by any other skill a profession might refresh its boons that were just converted meaning it feels random but based on my exp it seems to be based on whats on the far left in the line. Some one can correct me if im mistaken but thats how im pretty sure it works and thats why some times it can be impossible to cover stab to fear its just hard covered. > > > The same also applies to conditions being converted to boons for most skills its starts on the far left with what was most recently applied in other words if bleed is on the far left and poison is on the far right you will convert the bleed to vigor Most xfers also work this way far left from what was most recently applied are the ones that are sent. > > > > > > IF AT works this way will take some test (will do when i get home) > > > > Again no idea why you need further correction. I've explained how it works. One more time. Unless stated otherwise removal skills will be LIFO and all corruption and conversion skills, again unless stated otherwise, will convert boons and conditions at random. > > > > Literally on the patch they did with the conversion tables they stated it's random. Go and find it. > > Because sorry if i don't trust some stranger whom i don't really know over internet communication to be 100% correct. (you could be correct but this is not a promise) and you cannot tell me in anyway where i wouldnt be doubtful based on my personal exp with the skills over the past several years. The only thing that you could technically do to make me side with you would be getting a dev in here to confirm that it is infact random. To which if thats the case my reply would be "Thats pretty bad design" > Based on my experience these things are not random in fact they tend to be clear cut. For example well of power will continuously convert bleed into vigor over other conditions so long as you can reapply a bleed (as the most recent condition) before it pulses the next clear. IT will not randomly skip the bleed for another condition to convert into a boon randomly. As far as i know Corrupt boon seems to work the same way it hits the most recent boons applied going from left to right. > June 25th patchnotes when it changed: >Boon and Condition Conversion >Boon to condition conversion and condition to boon conversion has been standardized and is functionality changed. Skills that convert boons and conditions now randomly select from all boons and conditions on the target. This is easy to test with Master of Corruption and just spamming yourself with condi as a necro and seeing which gets removed first. Spam the same two skills in the same order and the conditions will be removed in no specific order every time. It hasn't changed since. Literally test it for a while you'll see what I mean. Considering you'll only have 3~5 conditions on you at a time it may seem ordered but it really is random. > > Conditions and boons are also applied in a specific order but not to go into too much depth they are applied in the order they read down a skill. > This part is fine and i think this to be true but your statements above not so much. > > I think you do not understand me though when i talk about most recent applications if a skill applies bleed then torment the foe will have bleed then torment > I a second skill is used that applies weakness and poison then now the order is from newest to oldest weakness, poison, bleed, torment > If you use the first skill again the order is still weakness, poison, bleed, torment.... > > If the target wants to use a skill to convert 2 conditions into boons then only weakness and poison will be targeted, although the skill that last hit you technically applied more stacks of bleed and torment. > > The only time condition removal or converts to boons skip order is if the skill targets a specific type of condition. For example traits that remove movement imparting conditions or target only damaging conditions. Or only target a set hand full of conditions. Otherwise as far as i know its from most recent aka going from left to right with the left being the most recent condition and the right being the oldest condition. > > Even if more stacks of the oldest condition are added on it will not move to be the most recent condition applied unless its been removed somehow then reapplied. > > New stacks of a condition will push the old stacks all the way to the top of the bunch. From the wiki: >For generic condition removal, the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first. Go use blood is power, then any other corruption skill, then use dagger 3. Take the shrouded removal trait and bleeding will be the condition removed. Or better yet, take master of corruption trait and do the following then do dagger 3, epidemic, corrupt boon. youve just gone bleeding>vuln>weakness>poison>bleeding. Or just make sure you use them in an order where bleeding is in the middle than use dagger 3.Shrouded removal will again remove bleeding. Even if its not the left to right stuff you're on about, its literally last in first out for generic removal. There are some condi builds currently and those int he past that would be so much more manageable if the conditions were applied in a different order. Like why the cripple from manifest sand shade was SO annoying, it was always getting pushed to the bottom of a 4 condi stack; Or why chill from reapers with bitter chill can get punishing since it will always be covered by vulnerability. The game is filled with random nuance like this. Like if a trait adds the condi to the skill tooltip it follows the normal order but if it ends up being on hit it falls somewhere else in the stack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > > > > it should be noted that arcane thievery steals the entire duration of boons. it will always get stab. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arcane Thievery frequently fails to get stab. In fact if there are four boons and stab is one of them, I can almost depend on the skill to NOT get stab. > > > > > > > > > > > > Corrupt boon is very similar it mostly depends on how many boons are covering the stab. IF there are 4+ boons and stab is at the tail end of the line corrupt boon will not convert it. Stability is the last in the priority list for corrupt boon as far as i know. ITs just the fact that most classes dont have access to every boon in the game which makes it easier to hit on some professions and not so much on others. I want to think AT is the sam way. > > > > > > > > > > Boon conversion, boon to condi and condi to boon , is **completely random**. Removal is LIFO unless the skill has some other priority like some boon and condi removal skills do. > > > > > > > > The only thing that keeps it feeling random is how fast other professions can reapply boons over the ones you generally want to hit. In the time you can cast corrupt boon followed by any other skill a profession might refresh its boons that were just converted meaning it feels random but based on my exp it seems to be based on whats on the far left in the line. Some one can correct me if im mistaken but thats how im pretty sure it works and thats why some times it can be impossible to cover stab to fear its just hard covered. > > > > The same also applies to conditions being converted to boons for most skills its starts on the far left with what was most recently applied in other words if bleed is on the far left and poison is on the far right you will convert the bleed to vigor Most xfers also work this way far left from what was most recently applied are the ones that are sent. > > > > > > > > IF AT works this way will take some test (will do when i get home) > > > > > > Again no idea why you need further correction. I've explained how it works. One more time. Unless stated otherwise removal skills will be LIFO and all corruption and conversion skills, again unless stated otherwise, will convert boons and conditions at random. > > > > > > Literally on the patch they did with the conversion tables they stated it's random. Go and find it. > > > > Because sorry if i don't trust some stranger whom i don't really know over internet communication to be 100% correct. (you could be correct but this is not a promise) and you cannot tell me in anyway where i wouldnt be doubtful based on my personal exp with the skills over the past several years. The only thing that you could technically do to make me side with you would be getting a dev in here to confirm that it is infact random. To which if thats the case my reply would be "Thats pretty bad design" > > Based on my experience these things are not random in fact they tend to be clear cut. For example well of power will continuously convert bleed into vigor over other conditions so long as you can reapply a bleed (as the most recent condition) before it pulses the next clear. IT will not randomly skip the bleed for another condition to convert into a boon randomly. As far as i know Corrupt boon seems to work the same way it hits the most recent boons applied going from left to right. > > > > June 25th patchnotes when it changed: > >Boon and Condition Conversion > >Boon to condition conversion and condition to boon conversion has been standardized and is functionality changed. Skills that convert boons and conditions now randomly select from all boons and conditions on the target. > > This is easy to test with Master of Corruption and just spamming yourself with condi as a necro and seeing which gets removed first. Spam the same two skills in the same order and the conditions will be removed in no specific order every time. It hasn't changed since. Literally test it for a while you'll see what I mean. Considering you'll only have 3~5 conditions on you at a time it may seem ordered but it really is random. > > > > Conditions and boons are also applied in a specific order but not to go into too much depth they are applied in the order they read down a skill. > > This part is fine and i think this to be true but your statements above not so much. > > > > I think you do not understand me though when i talk about most recent applications if a skill applies bleed then torment the foe will have bleed then torment > > I a second skill is used that applies weakness and poison then now the order is from newest to oldest weakness, poison, bleed, torment > > If you use the first skill again the order is still weakness, poison, bleed, torment.... > > > > If the target wants to use a skill to convert 2 conditions into boons then only weakness and poison will be targeted, although the skill that last hit you technically applied more stacks of bleed and torment. > > > > The only time condition removal or converts to boons skip order is if the skill targets a specific type of condition. For example traits that remove movement imparting conditions or target only damaging conditions. Or only target a set hand full of conditions. Otherwise as far as i know its from most recent aka going from left to right with the left being the most recent condition and the right being the oldest condition. > > > > Even if more stacks of the oldest condition are added on it will not move to be the most recent condition applied unless its been removed somehow then reapplied. > > > > > > New stacks of a condition will push the old stacks all the way to the top of the bunch. > From the wiki: > >For generic condition removal, the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first. > > Go use blood is power, then any other corruption skill, then use dagger 3. Take the shrouded removal trait and bleeding will be the condition removed. Or better yet, take master of corruption trait and do the following then do dagger 3, epidemic, corrupt boon. youve just gone bleeding>vuln>weakness>poison>bleeding. Or just make sure you use them in an order where bleeding is in the middle than use dagger 3.Shrouded removal will again remove bleeding. Even if its not the left to right stuff you're on about, its literally last in first out for generic removal. > > There are some condi builds currently and those int he past that would be so much more manageable if the conditions were applied in a different order. Like why the cripple from manifest sand shade was SO annoying, it was always getting pushed to the bottom of a 4 condi stack; Or why chill from reapers with bitter chill can get punishing since it will always be covered by vulnerability. > > The game is filled with random nuance like this. Like if a trait adds the condi to the skill tooltip it follows the normal order but if it ends up being on hit it falls somewhere else in the stack. > In any case ill still want to test it for myself when i get the chance cause my experience never has made it seem random. Its for the most part always seemed to follow an order in general if it really is random that seems like a poor design choice to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viquing.8254 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > I mean techncially speaking mesmer has good condition clear skills people just dont use them thus people make the claim that they have bad condi clear. > Its more like condi clear is not important enough to invest in alone because the game gives you a offensive tool that can also be used with the defensive aspect clearing condi. > > Technically speaking there is > - Inspiration line which offers lesser condi clear via shatters and phantom summoning > - Null Field which offers slow over time condi clear > - Mantra of Resolve/Power Cleanse which is more like burst condition removal > - Arcane thievery of course which acts as burst removal and offensive pressure tool > - There is technically even elusive mind but people dont use that either > > Realistically if you built around being condition resistant as a mesmer you would fair just as well as anyone else. Interesting view and it's true that mesmer can have good condiclear but : In your list, the real condi clear are mantra of resolve and arcane thievery because no condi class, even on condi applying by power class put only 1 condi that null field or inspiration can overclear. Taking inspiration mean dropping too much pressure thoses day and the survivability you gain with this traitline is outpressured by other on point fighter it's even more visible when you have to use your shatter not to CC/pressure but to condiclear. Mean in most encounter it's better to pressure the opponent than to let him do his best rotation output, you will take overall less damage/condi. Now when you look at other class condiclear : they either have multiple effects or are in traitline which will not let them do 0 pressure or are in trailine who give them real sustain (with better HPS or boons for example.). So in the current environnement, mesmer condiclear can be resumed at taking MoR or not. > That said its not that mesmers have garbage condi clear, its more so that people refuse to accept the other tools because it means trading something they dont want to lose which is how the game should technically be. > I dont think its fair to say mesmer has garbage condi clear when there are plenty of tools that can make mesmers very resistant to condi should they choose to accept them. Which isn't accurate when you face professions that haven't drawback on their condiclear access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 > @"viquing.8254" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > I mean techncially speaking mesmer has good condition clear skills people just dont use them thus people make the claim that they have bad condi clear. > > Its more like condi clear is not important enough to invest in alone because the game gives you a offensive tool that can also be used with the defensive aspect clearing condi. > > > > Technically speaking there is > > - Inspiration line which offers lesser condi clear via shatters and phantom summoning > > - Null Field which offers slow over time condi clear > > - Mantra of Resolve/Power Cleanse which is more like burst condition removal > > - Arcane thievery of course which acts as burst removal and offensive pressure tool > > - There is technically even elusive mind but people dont use that either > > > > Realistically if you built around being condition resistant as a mesmer you would fair just as well as anyone else. > > Interesting view and it's true that mesmer can have good condiclear but : > In your list, the real condi clear are mantra of resolve and arcane thievery because no condi class, even on condi applying by power class put only 1 condi that null field or inspiration can overclear. > Taking inspiration mean dropping too much pressure thoses day and the survivability you gain with this traitline is outpressured by other on point fighter it's even more visible when you have to use your shatter not to CC/pressure but to condiclear. This is the whole issue i have with this game and its balance right now. You dont need to invest in things like this and that the best defense is offense. Anet has pushed this far harder than they should have which has lead to such an imbalanced state of the game. Well that combined with the fact that pvp was tied to pve balance so it became impossible to nerf things once boosted without the community who mains that class going into a riot in both pve and pvp. Ideally you should be forced to make choices like that dropping pressure for survivability. Anet has made the game reach a point where people dont take defensive tools if it means giving up damage because damage pressure is more reliable as means of staying alive There is no forced balance between the two and kill potential is too high. There are very few professions who are balanced around the idea of taking one thing for the loss of something else they often have the most counters because they are forced to give up one thing for another. Their builds dont let them cover 90% of situations only about a modest 30-40% of situations at best. > Mean in most encounter it's better to pressure the opponent than to let him do his best rotation output, you will take overall less damage/condi. This is fact, i agree and dislike that the game has pigeon-toed into this method being the only method worth using. > Now when you look at other class condiclear : they either have multiple effects or are in traitline which will not let them do 0 pressure or are in trailine who give them real sustain (with better HPS or boons for example.). So in the current environnement, mesmer condiclear can be resumed at taking MoR or not. Im not going to argue that mesmer condi clear is on equal footing with everyone elses cause in truth it might not be exactly equal but i also wont reject it like it does not exists and that be the sole means for why AT must be clssified as "the only condi clear" in players eyes. Not every aspect of a professions kit especially right now can be equal to another professions kit aspects. For example mesmer has advantages that other professions do not currently and we cant write of those aspects on other professions as garbage though just because mesmer does it better or pretend they dont exists. > > > That said its not that mesmers have garbage condi clear, its more so that people refuse to accept the other tools because it means trading something they dont want to lose which is how the game should technically be. > > I dont think its fair to say mesmer has garbage condi clear when there are plenty of tools that can make mesmers very resistant to condi should they choose to accept them. > Which isn't accurate when you face professions that haven't drawback on their condiclear access. Depends on which professions you look at technically speaking most professions do have draw backs for taking condi clear access you just dont see them for a few reasons. 1 anet has allowed their kits to cover condi clear too well while letting them keep their offensive power through other means although technically they still do have more proper lines that are designed specifically for dealing with condi and would actually enforce a trade off if used. 2 people do exactly what you said they say "screw it" and go with the best offense is the best defense strat. If Rev for example wants condi clear there are clear cut draw backs. They have to take completely different legends to even get minimal clear or resistances to condi. And this is probably one of the most proper example in the game of how it should be but of course they go with the "screw it" method and just risk it all and it works against most professions most of the time. I think the lack of enforcing defensive investment and enforcing high pressure offense has imbalanced the game which is why we see so many people complaining about different things here. Generally speaking if someone wants decent condi removal they should have to invest in it. Its silly that anet allows most professions to not invest in defensive traits or stats and have such high sustain because of utility skills covering the weak points in those builds far too well or because one profession can instantly kill/lockdown another before it has ample time to really retaliate. If its one thing i know about games.... its not enjoyable getting to not play and thats what his meta encourages.. kill em quickly keep em locked down with cc so that they cannot use skills Do your damage while evading which does not allow em to hit you back. All of these things have been some of the most hot topics over the recent months in pvp. In a nutshell.... anet really should aim to take a different route than what the game encourages right now without slipping back into the bunker meta. Some professions and elites have already been hard balanced into that but the majority have not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasdamas Anklast.1607 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 > @"Odik.4587" said: > > @"Vasdamas Anklast.1607" said: > > 1.2k range, unblockable, transfers 3 conditions, steals 3 boons, applies quickness to you, inflicts slow on your enemy and has cooldown of 20 seconds with 3 seconds of superspeed on top of that if you get Master of Manipulation trait. > > Bet some necromancer weeps in a corner whenever they read that literal load of busted kitten > I dont remember you do anything but cry 24/7 in game and on forum. Lets actually nerf busted kitten as riposting shadows, since release busted as hell. By the way, it would be busted as heck if it would corrupt and had 2 charges ;) Yeah and I don't remember you playing anything but busted mesmer and boonbeast specs ingame while acting from high horse about it every time with your barely comprehensible broken arse english fitting that exact image of rolling in cheese mesmers that plague the game and noone likes. Cringy af Riposting shadows =) ? Comming from a main that has stunbreak as their dodge mecanics with zero animation so it's basically a free invulnerability. But at least you didn't choose phase traversal as comparison. I'd agree if you complained about rev's sword 2 though, that shit is broken imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poelala.2830 Posted January 8, 2020 Author Share Posted January 8, 2020 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > I still think based on what CaL said i hope Arcane will see some changes i think its easily classed under the > > > > **"skills that do too many things at once"** category > > > > > > > > **Arcane thievery's** actions per single use on successful hit. > > > > Grants quickness > > > > Inflicts slow > > > > Steals up to 3 boons > > > > xfers up to 3 conditions > > > > is unblockable. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if we compare it to **Corrupt Boon** > > > > Convers 3 boons to conditions > > > > is Unblockable > > > > Inflicts self poison > > > > > > Corruption is stronger than a transfer and a boonsteal. And corrupt boon was already seeing meta use before it became an ammo skill, which you left out. > > > > Thats subjective though. There is no blunt fact you can find on the wiki or anything ( im pretty sure) that factually states boon corruption is stronger than boon steal. > > I personally would rather steal boons rather than corrupt them to be perfectly honest with you. > > > > The second part of your statement is not relevant to the things i listed as for why i listed them. > > These are the things they are looking to change with upcoming balance which is why i even bothered to point it out. I didnt point it out based on meta use i pointed out by looking at how many actions a skill does per 1 use which is factual and has nothing to do with meta vs non meta. A skill being meta or not is not something included in its tool tip as for the number of effects it does at 1 time. > > > > Corrupt Boon: > Removes 3 boons > Applies 3 conditions > Unblockable > 18s cool down > 2 charges. > > Arcane Thievery: > Removes 3 boons > Applies ~~3~~ 4 conditions > Unblockable > 25s cool down > > "but but...." So this is from the perspective of someone having both skills used on them, they're actually more similar than you think and 100% corrupt boon is stronger because you can control what conditions are put on the player. On the other hand the enemy can take some measures not to have stab corrupted but that's about it. > > "but apharma, nice bias there, you forgot the mesmer gets those 3 boons and quickness" > > Yeah I know but realistically it's a chaos mesmer running it, what are they getting they don't already have or that is actually useful? Quickness and the most annoying part about AT is the slow to be hit with which leads me back too... > > "Edit: What's the point of story time with apharma? It's a really buggy skill that needs fixing and didn't "need" quickness and slow adding." > > Also you should in generally use realistic examples, you're unlikely to always transfer 3 conditions and steal 3 boons, even when maximum usage is realised (when it doesn't random fail too) only 1 aspect is facilitating you usually. > > Edit: As I say the actual mechanic of AT needs fixing then it should lose the quickness and slow, then maybe look at the cool down bringing it in line with the power level CMC hopefully nerfs everything down to. I find it hilarious that you compare those two skills as if they exist in a vacuum. The ability to remove protection, regeneration, and stability while gaining those yourself and inflicting four conditions before 1-shotting or doing all the BS condi mesmer does is unique to mesmer only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viquing.8254 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > I still think based on what CaL said i hope Arcane will see some changes i think its easily classed under the > > > > > **"skills that do too many things at once"** category > > > > > > > > > > **Arcane thievery's** actions per single use on successful hit. > > > > > Grants quickness > > > > > Inflicts slow > > > > > Steals up to 3 boons > > > > > xfers up to 3 conditions > > > > > is unblockable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if we compare it to **Corrupt Boon** > > > > > Convers 3 boons to conditions > > > > > is Unblockable > > > > > Inflicts self poison > > > > > > > > Corruption is stronger than a transfer and a boonsteal. And corrupt boon was already seeing meta use before it became an ammo skill, which you left out. > > > > > > Thats subjective though. There is no blunt fact you can find on the wiki or anything ( im pretty sure) that factually states boon corruption is stronger than boon steal. > > > I personally would rather steal boons rather than corrupt them to be perfectly honest with you. > > > > > > The second part of your statement is not relevant to the things i listed as for why i listed them. > > > These are the things they are looking to change with upcoming balance which is why i even bothered to point it out. I didnt point it out based on meta use i pointed out by looking at how many actions a skill does per 1 use which is factual and has nothing to do with meta vs non meta. A skill being meta or not is not something included in its tool tip as for the number of effects it does at 1 time. > > > > > > > Corrupt Boon: > > Removes 3 boons > > Applies 3 conditions > > Unblockable > > 18s cool down > > 2 charges. > > > > Arcane Thievery: > > Removes 3 boons > > Applies ~~3~~ 4 conditions > > Unblockable > > 25s cool down > > > > "but but...." So this is from the perspective of someone having both skills used on them, they're actually more similar than you think and 100% corrupt boon is stronger because you can control what conditions are put on the player. On the other hand the enemy can take some measures not to have stab corrupted but that's about it. > > > > "but apharma, nice bias there, you forgot the mesmer gets those 3 boons and quickness" > > > > Yeah I know but realistically it's a chaos mesmer running it, what are they getting they don't already have or that is actually useful? Quickness and the most annoying part about AT is the slow to be hit with which leads me back too... > > > > "Edit: What's the point of story time with apharma? It's a really buggy skill that needs fixing and didn't "need" quickness and slow adding." > > > > Also you should in generally use realistic examples, you're unlikely to always transfer 3 conditions and steal 3 boons, even when maximum usage is realised (when it doesn't random fail too) only 1 aspect is facilitating you usually. > > > > Edit: As I say the actual mechanic of AT needs fixing then it should lose the quickness and slow, then maybe look at the cool down bringing it in line with the power level CMC hopefully nerfs everything down to. > > I find it hilarious that you compare those two skills as if they exist in a vacuum. The ability to remove protection, regeneration, and stability while gaining those yourself and inflicting four conditions before 1-shotting or doing all the BS condi mesmer does is unique to mesmer only. I find it hilarious that you whine about a skill while your profession have a better noobfriendly 3 in 1 button in his toolbar. You know, it's all about context... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poelala.2830 Posted January 9, 2020 Author Share Posted January 9, 2020 > @"viquing.8254" said: > > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > I still think based on what CaL said i hope Arcane will see some changes i think its easily classed under the > > > > > > **"skills that do too many things at once"** category > > > > > > > > > > > > **Arcane thievery's** actions per single use on successful hit. > > > > > > Grants quickness > > > > > > Inflicts slow > > > > > > Steals up to 3 boons > > > > > > xfers up to 3 conditions > > > > > > is unblockable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if we compare it to **Corrupt Boon** > > > > > > Convers 3 boons to conditions > > > > > > is Unblockable > > > > > > Inflicts self poison > > > > > > > > > > Corruption is stronger than a transfer and a boonsteal. And corrupt boon was already seeing meta use before it became an ammo skill, which you left out. > > > > > > > > Thats subjective though. There is no blunt fact you can find on the wiki or anything ( im pretty sure) that factually states boon corruption is stronger than boon steal. > > > > I personally would rather steal boons rather than corrupt them to be perfectly honest with you. > > > > > > > > The second part of your statement is not relevant to the things i listed as for why i listed them. > > > > These are the things they are looking to change with upcoming balance which is why i even bothered to point it out. I didnt point it out based on meta use i pointed out by looking at how many actions a skill does per 1 use which is factual and has nothing to do with meta vs non meta. A skill being meta or not is not something included in its tool tip as for the number of effects it does at 1 time. > > > > > > > > > > Corrupt Boon: > > > Removes 3 boons > > > Applies 3 conditions > > > Unblockable > > > 18s cool down > > > 2 charges. > > > > > > Arcane Thievery: > > > Removes 3 boons > > > Applies ~~3~~ 4 conditions > > > Unblockable > > > 25s cool down > > > > > > "but but...." So this is from the perspective of someone having both skills used on them, they're actually more similar than you think and 100% corrupt boon is stronger because you can control what conditions are put on the player. On the other hand the enemy can take some measures not to have stab corrupted but that's about it. > > > > > > "but apharma, nice bias there, you forgot the mesmer gets those 3 boons and quickness" > > > > > > Yeah I know but realistically it's a chaos mesmer running it, what are they getting they don't already have or that is actually useful? Quickness and the most annoying part about AT is the slow to be hit with which leads me back too... > > > > > > "Edit: What's the point of story time with apharma? It's a really buggy skill that needs fixing and didn't "need" quickness and slow adding." > > > > > > Also you should in generally use realistic examples, you're unlikely to always transfer 3 conditions and steal 3 boons, even when maximum usage is realised (when it doesn't random fail too) only 1 aspect is facilitating you usually. > > > > > > Edit: As I say the actual mechanic of AT needs fixing then it should lose the quickness and slow, then maybe look at the cool down bringing it in line with the power level CMC hopefully nerfs everything down to. > > > > I find it hilarious that you compare those two skills as if they exist in a vacuum. The ability to remove protection, regeneration, and stability while gaining those yourself and inflicting four conditions before 1-shotting or doing all the BS condi mesmer does is unique to mesmer only. > > I find it hilarious that you whine about a skill while your profession have a better noobfriendly 3 in 1 button in his toolbar. You know, it's all about context... I could give endless examples of game-breaking and decadent mesmer builds but playing core fresh air Elementalist for four years despite being horridly out-classed by every other build is, again, completely different than playing a mesmer build that can do 20k damage in half a second from stealth. You have no response to my statement, so you talk about my main and fail. Whoops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viquing.8254 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > I still think based on what CaL said i hope Arcane will see some changes i think its easily classed under the > > > > > > > **"skills that do too many things at once"** category > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **Arcane thievery's** actions per single use on successful hit. > > > > > > > Grants quickness > > > > > > > Inflicts slow > > > > > > > Steals up to 3 boons > > > > > > > xfers up to 3 conditions > > > > > > > is unblockable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if we compare it to **Corrupt Boon** > > > > > > > Convers 3 boons to conditions > > > > > > > is Unblockable > > > > > > > Inflicts self poison > > > > > > > > > > > > Corruption is stronger than a transfer and a boonsteal. And corrupt boon was already seeing meta use before it became an ammo skill, which you left out. > > > > > > > > > > Thats subjective though. There is no blunt fact you can find on the wiki or anything ( im pretty sure) that factually states boon corruption is stronger than boon steal. > > > > > I personally would rather steal boons rather than corrupt them to be perfectly honest with you. > > > > > > > > > > The second part of your statement is not relevant to the things i listed as for why i listed them. > > > > > These are the things they are looking to change with upcoming balance which is why i even bothered to point it out. I didnt point it out based on meta use i pointed out by looking at how many actions a skill does per 1 use which is factual and has nothing to do with meta vs non meta. A skill being meta or not is not something included in its tool tip as for the number of effects it does at 1 time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Corrupt Boon: > > > > Removes 3 boons > > > > Applies 3 conditions > > > > Unblockable > > > > 18s cool down > > > > 2 charges. > > > > > > > > Arcane Thievery: > > > > Removes 3 boons > > > > Applies ~~3~~ 4 conditions > > > > Unblockable > > > > 25s cool down > > > > > > > > "but but...." So this is from the perspective of someone having both skills used on them, they're actually more similar than you think and 100% corrupt boon is stronger because you can control what conditions are put on the player. On the other hand the enemy can take some measures not to have stab corrupted but that's about it. > > > > > > > > "but apharma, nice bias there, you forgot the mesmer gets those 3 boons and quickness" > > > > > > > > Yeah I know but realistically it's a chaos mesmer running it, what are they getting they don't already have or that is actually useful? Quickness and the most annoying part about AT is the slow to be hit with which leads me back too... > > > > > > > > "Edit: What's the point of story time with apharma? It's a really buggy skill that needs fixing and didn't "need" quickness and slow adding." > > > > > > > > Also you should in generally use realistic examples, you're unlikely to always transfer 3 conditions and steal 3 boons, even when maximum usage is realised (when it doesn't random fail too) only 1 aspect is facilitating you usually. > > > > > > > > Edit: As I say the actual mechanic of AT needs fixing then it should lose the quickness and slow, then maybe look at the cool down bringing it in line with the power level CMC hopefully nerfs everything down to. > > > > > > I find it hilarious that you compare those two skills as if they exist in a vacuum. The ability to remove protection, regeneration, and stability while gaining those yourself and inflicting four conditions before 1-shotting or doing all the BS condi mesmer does is unique to mesmer only. > > > > I find it hilarious that you whine about a skill while your profession have a better noobfriendly 3 in 1 button in his toolbar. You know, it's all about context... > > I could give endless examples of game-breaking and decadent mesmer builds but playing core fresh air Elementalist for four years despite being horridly out-classed by every other build is, again, completely different than playing a mesmer build that can do 20k damage in half a second from stealth. When is the last time you kill a ele with a condi mes ? Ho sorry ! they have passive condiclear on their rotation so didn't care about condi... Why even dedicate a utility slot to condiclear... > You have no response to my statement, Your statement about how power mesmer cast AT from stealth before bursting so you have tells of the incoming burst ? Sorry I didn't meet this kind of play. > so you talk about my main and fail. Whoops. Again, the grass seems greener in the neighboor garden yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FyzE.3472 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Noooo don’t nurf muh memesmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > I still think based on what CaL said i hope Arcane will see some changes i think its easily classed under the > > > > > **"skills that do too many things at once"** category > > > > > > > > > > **Arcane thievery's** actions per single use on successful hit. > > > > > Grants quickness > > > > > Inflicts slow > > > > > Steals up to 3 boons > > > > > xfers up to 3 conditions > > > > > is unblockable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if we compare it to **Corrupt Boon** > > > > > Convers 3 boons to conditions > > > > > is Unblockable > > > > > Inflicts self poison > > > > > > > > Corruption is stronger than a transfer and a boonsteal. And corrupt boon was already seeing meta use before it became an ammo skill, which you left out. > > > > > > Thats subjective though. There is no blunt fact you can find on the wiki or anything ( im pretty sure) that factually states boon corruption is stronger than boon steal. > > > I personally would rather steal boons rather than corrupt them to be perfectly honest with you. > > > > > > The second part of your statement is not relevant to the things i listed as for why i listed them. > > > These are the things they are looking to change with upcoming balance which is why i even bothered to point it out. I didnt point it out based on meta use i pointed out by looking at how many actions a skill does per 1 use which is factual and has nothing to do with meta vs non meta. A skill being meta or not is not something included in its tool tip as for the number of effects it does at 1 time. > > > > > > > Corrupt Boon: > > Removes 3 boons > > Applies 3 conditions > > Unblockable > > 18s cool down > > 2 charges. > > > > Arcane Thievery: > > Removes 3 boons > > Applies ~~3~~ 4 conditions > > Unblockable > > 25s cool down > > > > "but but...." So this is from the perspective of someone having both skills used on them, they're actually more similar than you think and 100% corrupt boon is stronger because you can control what conditions are put on the player. On the other hand the enemy can take some measures not to have stab corrupted but that's about it. > > > > "but apharma, nice bias there, you forgot the mesmer gets those 3 boons and quickness" > > > > Yeah I know but realistically it's a chaos mesmer running it, what are they getting they don't already have or that is actually useful? Quickness and the most annoying part about AT is the slow to be hit with which leads me back too... > > > > "Edit: What's the point of story time with apharma? It's a really buggy skill that needs fixing and didn't "need" quickness and slow adding." > > > > Also you should in generally use realistic examples, you're unlikely to always transfer 3 conditions and steal 3 boons, even when maximum usage is realised (when it doesn't random fail too) only 1 aspect is facilitating you usually. > > > > Edit: As I say the actual mechanic of AT needs fixing then it should lose the quickness and slow, then maybe look at the cool down bringing it in line with the power level CMC hopefully nerfs everything down to. > > I find it hilarious that you compare those two skills as if they exist in a vacuum. The ability to remove protection, regeneration, and stability while gaining those yourself and inflicting four conditions before 1-shotting or doing all the BS condi mesmer does is unique to mesmer only. AT doesnt prioritize these boons (ReGeNeRaTiOn AlErT!1!1!1) while CB 100% prioritize stability (cant speak for other boons as I didnt play necro too much to remember what else it prioritizing). Feel free to prove otherwise 1shot mesmer never used AT because its trash for any power based mesmer. It doesnt apply 4 conditions unless we speak about perfect conditions where is CB would be always better "Fear takes molehills for mountains" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 > @"Odik.4587" said: > > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > I still think based on what CaL said i hope Arcane will see some changes i think its easily classed under the > > > > > > **"skills that do too many things at once"** category > > > > > > > > > > > > **Arcane thievery's** actions per single use on successful hit. > > > > > > Grants quickness > > > > > > Inflicts slow > > > > > > Steals up to 3 boons > > > > > > xfers up to 3 conditions > > > > > > is unblockable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if we compare it to **Corrupt Boon** > > > > > > Convers 3 boons to conditions > > > > > > is Unblockable > > > > > > Inflicts self poison > > > > > > > > > > Corruption is stronger than a transfer and a boonsteal. And corrupt boon was already seeing meta use before it became an ammo skill, which you left out. > > > > > > > > Thats subjective though. There is no blunt fact you can find on the wiki or anything ( im pretty sure) that factually states boon corruption is stronger than boon steal. > > > > I personally would rather steal boons rather than corrupt them to be perfectly honest with you. > > > > > > > > The second part of your statement is not relevant to the things i listed as for why i listed them. > > > > These are the things they are looking to change with upcoming balance which is why i even bothered to point it out. I didnt point it out based on meta use i pointed out by looking at how many actions a skill does per 1 use which is factual and has nothing to do with meta vs non meta. A skill being meta or not is not something included in its tool tip as for the number of effects it does at 1 time. > > > > > > > > > > Corrupt Boon: > > > Removes 3 boons > > > Applies 3 conditions > > > Unblockable > > > 18s cool down > > > 2 charges. > > > > > > Arcane Thievery: > > > Removes 3 boons > > > Applies ~~3~~ 4 conditions > > > Unblockable > > > 25s cool down > > > > > > "but but...." So this is from the perspective of someone having both skills used on them, they're actually more similar than you think and 100% corrupt boon is stronger because you can control what conditions are put on the player. On the other hand the enemy can take some measures not to have stab corrupted but that's about it. > > > > > > "but apharma, nice bias there, you forgot the mesmer gets those 3 boons and quickness" > > > > > > Yeah I know but realistically it's a chaos mesmer running it, what are they getting they don't already have or that is actually useful? Quickness and the most annoying part about AT is the slow to be hit with which leads me back too... > > > > > > "Edit: What's the point of story time with apharma? It's a really buggy skill that needs fixing and didn't "need" quickness and slow adding." > > > > > > Also you should in generally use realistic examples, you're unlikely to always transfer 3 conditions and steal 3 boons, even when maximum usage is realised (when it doesn't random fail too) only 1 aspect is facilitating you usually. > > > > > > Edit: As I say the actual mechanic of AT needs fixing then it should lose the quickness and slow, then maybe look at the cool down bringing it in line with the power level CMC hopefully nerfs everything down to. > > > > I find it hilarious that you compare those two skills as if they exist in a vacuum. The ability to remove protection, regeneration, and stability while gaining those yourself and inflicting four conditions before 1-shotting or doing all the BS condi mesmer does is unique to mesmer only. > > AT doesnt prioritize these boons (ReGeNeRaTiOn AlErT!1!1!1) while CB 100% prioritize stability (cant speak for other boons as I didnt play necro too much to remember what else it prioritizing). Feel free to prove otherwise Ill say it again thats false Ive been using corrupt boon in a few corruption heavy builds the past few days instead of my lesser corrupt builds and on any profession that can apply stability and more than 3-4 other boons at the same time it can totally miss the stability due to other boon coverage. There was even an instance in which i converted every thing except stability. Please dont use false information. I play necro daily and any time ive ever used corrupt boon on a boon heavy profession like guardian , some eles, rangers using plasma etc. Its totally possible to completely miss the stability while hitting 3 other boons on the bar with CB. So either im right and you are wrong or both of us are wrong and neither one of us is correct. There is no priority on CB hitting stability lets just get that right.... Dont be fooled into thinking CB auto hits stability every single time when the reality is most players dont even realize how much stability they pump out in their powercrept builds without a lot of boon coverage. Warriors and Ele will say that necro fear is op and that necros have too many fears without realizing the source of that fear is the stability they keep spamming with almost no other boons sitting along side it making it easier to convert. IF stab is like the 1 of the only 3 boons on the bar of course you will land it with CB if its up there with 8 or 9 other boons there is a good chance you can totally miss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > I still think based on what CaL said i hope Arcane will see some changes i think its easily classed under the > > > > > > > **"skills that do too many things at once"** category > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **Arcane thievery's** actions per single use on successful hit. > > > > > > > Grants quickness > > > > > > > Inflicts slow > > > > > > > Steals up to 3 boons > > > > > > > xfers up to 3 conditions > > > > > > > is unblockable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if we compare it to **Corrupt Boon** > > > > > > > Convers 3 boons to conditions > > > > > > > is Unblockable > > > > > > > Inflicts self poison > > > > > > > > > > > > Corruption is stronger than a transfer and a boonsteal. And corrupt boon was already seeing meta use before it became an ammo skill, which you left out. > > > > > > > > > > Thats subjective though. There is no blunt fact you can find on the wiki or anything ( im pretty sure) that factually states boon corruption is stronger than boon steal. > > > > > I personally would rather steal boons rather than corrupt them to be perfectly honest with you. > > > > > > > > > > The second part of your statement is not relevant to the things i listed as for why i listed them. > > > > > These are the things they are looking to change with upcoming balance which is why i even bothered to point it out. I didnt point it out based on meta use i pointed out by looking at how many actions a skill does per 1 use which is factual and has nothing to do with meta vs non meta. A skill being meta or not is not something included in its tool tip as for the number of effects it does at 1 time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Corrupt Boon: > > > > Removes 3 boons > > > > Applies 3 conditions > > > > Unblockable > > > > 18s cool down > > > > 2 charges. > > > > > > > > Arcane Thievery: > > > > Removes 3 boons > > > > Applies ~~3~~ 4 conditions > > > > Unblockable > > > > 25s cool down > > > > > > > > "but but...." So this is from the perspective of someone having both skills used on them, they're actually more similar than you think and 100% corrupt boon is stronger because you can control what conditions are put on the player. On the other hand the enemy can take some measures not to have stab corrupted but that's about it. > > > > > > > > "but apharma, nice bias there, you forgot the mesmer gets those 3 boons and quickness" > > > > > > > > Yeah I know but realistically it's a chaos mesmer running it, what are they getting they don't already have or that is actually useful? Quickness and the most annoying part about AT is the slow to be hit with which leads me back too... > > > > > > > > "Edit: What's the point of story time with apharma? It's a really buggy skill that needs fixing and didn't "need" quickness and slow adding." > > > > > > > > Also you should in generally use realistic examples, you're unlikely to always transfer 3 conditions and steal 3 boons, even when maximum usage is realised (when it doesn't random fail too) only 1 aspect is facilitating you usually. > > > > > > > > Edit: As I say the actual mechanic of AT needs fixing then it should lose the quickness and slow, then maybe look at the cool down bringing it in line with the power level CMC hopefully nerfs everything down to. > > > > > > I find it hilarious that you compare those two skills as if they exist in a vacuum. The ability to remove protection, regeneration, and stability while gaining those yourself and inflicting four conditions before 1-shotting or doing all the BS condi mesmer does is unique to mesmer only. > > > > AT doesnt prioritize these boons (ReGeNeRaTiOn AlErT!1!1!1) while CB 100% prioritize stability (cant speak for other boons as I didnt play necro too much to remember what else it prioritizing). Feel free to prove otherwise > Ill say it again thats false > Ive been using corrupt boon in a few corruption heavy builds the past few days instead of my lesser corrupt builds and on any profession that can apply stability and more than 3-4 other boons at the same time it can totally miss the stability due to other boon coverage. There was even an instance in which i converted every thing except stability. Please dont use false information. > > I play necro daily and any time ive ever used corrupt boon on a boon heavy profession like guardian , some eles, rangers using plasma etc. Its totally possible to completely miss the stability while hitting 3 other boons on the bar with CB. So either im right and you are wrong or both of us are wrong and neither one of us is correct. There is no priority on CB hitting stability lets just get that right.... > > Dont be fooled into thinking CB auto hits stability every single time when the reality is most players dont even realize how much stability they pump out in their powercrept builds without a lot of boon coverage. > > Warriors and Ele will say that necro fear is op and that necros have too many fears without realizing the source of that fear is the stability they keep spamming with almost no other boons sitting along side it making it easier to convert. IF stab is like the 1 of the only 3 boons on the bar of course you will land it with CB if its up there with 8 or 9 other boons there is a good chance you can totally miss it. Second or third time you are writing a wall instead of short answer... :pepehands: tldr : CB doesnt convert stability if someone applied 3 boons over it... and... even if it would be true ( unless you run multipletests, but you didnt ) they should be able to cover it instant after applying stability and they would likely to use CP for stability asap... What the point you were trying to make? That corrupted stability = fear, wew, never knew that /s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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