Are you guys confused?

[Amaranthe.3578]

After HoT we got a bunker meta, then you spent years to buff damage and constantly state you want the combat to feel "deadly", you removed all the bunker amulets, gave people lots of stab. Now you scale the damage/healing back to make us hit like wet noodles again? You make CC skills do no damage? This isn't wow where we have 30 buttons to jerk around with...Take a look at the warriors hammer.

Out of 6 skills on that weapon 3 will do no damage...is it just me or it feels like you need to put this on a public test server before you make such a huge step backwards?

[Ysmir.4986]

> @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> After HoT we got a bunker meta, then you spent years to buff damage and constantly state you want the combat to feel "deadly", you removed all the bunker amulets, gave people lots of stab. Now you scale the damage/healing back to make us hit like wet noodles again? You make CC skills do no damage? This isn't wow where we have 30 buttons to jerk around with...Take a look at the warriors hammer.

> Out of 6 skills on that weapon 3 will do no damage...is it just me or it feels like you need to put this on a public test server before you make such a huge step backwards?

 

This is what people wanted for a long time, complete shave of the current power creep. Game is at a point where everyone can do damage so quickly, the line is blurred between a good player who knows his rotations and one shot monkey that pushes 2 buttons.

 

Bring it on.

[Amaranthe.3578]

> @"Ysmir.4986" said:

> > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > After HoT we got a bunker meta, then you spent years to buff damage and constantly state you want the combat to feel "deadly", you removed all the bunker amulets, gave people lots of stab. Now you scale the damage/healing back to make us hit like wet noodles again? You make CC skills do no damage? This isn't wow where we have 30 buttons to jerk around with...Take a look at the warriors hammer.

> > Out of 6 skills on that weapon 3 will do no damage...is it just me or it feels like you need to put this on a public test server before you make such a huge step backwards?

>

> This is what people wanted for a long time, complete shave of the current power creep. Game is at a point where everyone can do damage so quickly, the line is blurred between a good player who knows his rotations and one shot monkey that pushes 2 buttons.

>

> Bring it on.

 

Trust me the last thing you want is the return of the wet noodle meta that we had after HoT launched

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > @"Ysmir.4986" said:

> > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > After HoT we got a bunker meta, then you spent years to buff damage and constantly state you want the combat to feel "deadly", you removed all the bunker amulets, gave people lots of stab. Now you scale the damage/healing back to make us hit like wet noodles again? You make CC skills do no damage? This isn't wow where we have 30 buttons to jerk around with...Take a look at the warriors hammer.

> > > Out of 6 skills on that weapon 3 will do no damage...is it just me or it feels like you need to put this on a public test server before you make such a huge step backwards?

> >

> > This is what people wanted for a long time, complete shave of the current power creep. Game is at a point where everyone can do damage so quickly, the line is blurred between a good player who knows his rotations and one shot monkey that pushes 2 buttons.

> >

> > Bring it on.

>

> Trust me the last thing you want is the return of the wet noodle meta that we had after HoT launched

 

All the patch is meant to do is establish a baseline, a foundation, for them to work from after it releases. This will allow them to move numbers up or down and rework traits and skills as needed depending on how everything interacts with each other in the new environment that gets established.

 

The patch was never meant to be a one patch fixes all type of release. It is **not** the typical balance patch. Stop thinking of it like that. This process of making PvP balance better was always, **always**, going to be an iterative process over a longer period of time and **never** in one or even two patches.

 

People need to have patience, and I am aware that its been a long time since ANet has done much of anything that will actually inflict meaningful change on PvP balance in the game but this is what that looks like and this is how it is going to get done.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

It's the same across the whole board. All CC damage is being reduced to nothing (including those on weapon skills which may not be the best approach). It basically comes down to this, if one wants to do damage, don't use anything with CC.

 

Look at the Rev hammer for example. Auto-attack nearly cut in half. CoR over doubled in cooldown (and I guarantee will still remain buggy). phase smash power dropped, and drop the hammer does no damage.

 

All this came about because certain players (many of them actually), couldn't keep quiet about damage. They "claim" damage was too high, but it was anything but. Damage was actually far too low compared to defense, but they can't seem to differentiate between being hit by 1 player vs being hit by 10. An example of this, even in full zerker gear the damage was pathetic to a target with even a moderate amount of defense (forget the gambit of boons they have on top of it). It will literally make no sense to invest in any type of damage gear, which means, bring back the bunker condition meta. Which I don't mind; however, power has to have some sort of place.

 

Players need to learn to keep quiet, watch what's going to happen once the patch goes live. We'll see either full bunker condition players or hoards of PVT players with very little means to remove boons.

 

I know there are many vets that play, but it's also coming to fruition that many of these players asking for changes are relatively new to the game mode who havn't a clue what happened in the past when damage wasn't high enough vs too much defense.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> It's the same across the whole board. All CC damage is being reduced to nothing (including those on weapon skills which may not be the best approach). It basically comes down to this, if one wants to do damage, don't use anything with CC.

>

> Look at the Rev hammer for example. Auto-attack nearly cut in half. CoR over doubled in cooldown (and I guarantee will still remain buggy). phase smash power dropped, and drop the hammer does no damage.

>

> All this came about because certain players (many of them actually), couldn't keep quiet about damage. They "claim" damage was too high, but it was anything but. Damage was actually far too low compared to defense, but they can't seem to differentiate between being hit by 1 player vs being hit by 10. An example of this, even in full zerker gear the damage was pathetic to a target with even a moderate amount of defense (forget the gambit of boons they have on top of it). It will literally make no sense to invest in any type of damage gear, which means, bring back the bunker condition meta. Which I don't mind; however, power has to have some sort of place.

>

> Players need to learn to keep quiet, watch what's going to happen once the patch goes live. We'll see either full bunker condition players or hoards of PVT players with very little means to remove boons.

>

> I know there are many vets that play, but it's also coming to fruition that many of these players asking for changes are relatively new to the game mode who havn't a clue what happened in the past when damage wasn't high enough vs too much defense.

 

Damage **and** defense were both too high. But then bringing defense down would have likely made damage too high, and then bringing damage back up would have made defense too high. They brought **both** down (some of it still needs to get worked on, though, like Barrier) so they can adjust accordingly going forward with what might actually need to be increased or decreased if any of it needs to be increased at all. Everything was very scaled up due to boons especially and much of that was brought down, some of it will still likely be brought down that hadn't been touched with this patch.

 

I don't quite buy into the idea that Conditions will become too strong, or that things will get too bunkery. Cleanses went relatively unchanged and they did even bring condition durations down on some skills and traits, more of that will likely still happen depending on what things are like after the patch.

 

The game balance got caught in this garbage cycle of defense going up, oh and now damage needs to go up, oh better compensate that with more boon uptime. This update needed to happen because they needed to establish a new baseline to work from. Its as simple as that. They pretty much said that too.

[felix.2386]

HoT got bunker meta, because all the op sustain new elite spec with new mechanics, they are nerfing all the elite spec all together

 

i do agree that hammer change is funny, specially if u ran something like hammer mace/shield

[Stand The Wall.6987]

some skills need to be reworked entirely.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"Ysmir.4986" said:

> > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > After HoT we got a bunker meta, then you spent years to buff damage and constantly state you want the combat to feel "deadly", you removed all the bunker amulets, gave people lots of stab. Now you scale the damage/healing back to make us hit like wet noodles again? You make CC skills do no damage? This isn't wow where we have 30 buttons to jerk around with...Take a look at the warriors hammer.

> > Out of 6 skills on that weapon 3 will do no damage...is it just me or it feels like you need to put this on a public test server before you make such a huge step backwards?

>

> This is what people wanted for a long time, complete shave of the current power creep.

 

No, that's not what people asked for at all.

 

When they asked for a revert in power creep, most people were imaging maybe an actual 15% to 20% shave in DPS overall from what it is now, while keeping the game mechanics generally similar to how they work now, with small adjustments here or there.

 

They did not ask for like a -50% reduction in damage output and the destruction of certain weapon kits because they have too many hard CCs on them. Have you not sat and compressed the totality of the effects that are going to happen here? First you have a -33% being applied to all non hard CC weapon coefficients. Then you have a MASSIVE reduction in quickness access and quickness uptime from the removal of conc based amulets and the nerfing of conc based runes, which is a HUGE hit to the actual "damage per second" that will be possible during bursting or even brawling on a node. And then you have all hard CCs going to 0 damage output. So some weapon kits & classes who are largely designed around hard CCs, will quite seriously be looking -50% or greater chops in their damage output compared to what it is now. And that's not even to mention the increase in cool down timers...

 

Due to this enormous large decrease in damage output, and increase in cool downs of important skills, the post patch meta will move as slowly as a bunker meta without needing to be a bunker meta.

 

That is not exactly what I asked for. Is that what you asked for?

 

 

 

 

[toxic.3648]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> That is not what the community asked for.

 

(insert batmanvoice here) **but what the community deserves**

 

for real tho, this patch have gotten all the ppl in my guild the most hyped they have been in years. u maybe dont like it but this patch will completely flip the board, for better or for worse. still alot more fun than the stale af game we have played since pof. and dont act like this is the end all be all, they nerf everything down to adjust numbers afterwards. balance pathces will continue after this, im just making sure u know that :)

 

[Luthan.5236]

I have never played when big changes happened (with the expansions coming out) since I played only from release until end of 2013. Then long break until June 2019 when I returned.

 

Gotten used to the situation now (while I still play core only and at a low skill tier ... gold 1). Now with the damage reduced and heavily reduced on CC ... it seems like they want to make the matches last longer. More focussing on teamplay. (A single player not being able to take out a lot of others - if he is more skilled - since it now would take longer. Not being able to constantly CC someone in a 1 vs. 1 if the other one has not brought lots of stunbreak/stability ... if more people decide to not bring CC skills or to use them more careful. since they now only give you the CC and not much damage to spam them for damage as well.)

 

Just curious how this will feel if people tend to try real bunkering as well - with their build. Imagine 5 guys with the most bunker-ish builds quickly capping close and mid and not being able to kill ... but als o the enemy not being able to remove them. :D

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"Ysmir.4986" said:

> > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > After HoT we got a bunker meta, then you spent years to buff damage and constantly state you want the combat to feel "deadly", you removed all the bunker amulets, gave people lots of stab. Now you scale the damage/healing back to make us hit like wet noodles again? You make CC skills do no damage? This isn't wow where we have 30 buttons to jerk around with...Take a look at the warriors hammer.

> > > Out of 6 skills on that weapon 3 will do no damage...is it just me or it feels like you need to put this on a public test server before you make such a huge step backwards?

> >

> > This is what people wanted for a long time, complete shave of the current power creep.

>

> No, that's not what people asked for at all.

>

> When they asked for a revert in power creep, most people were imaging maybe an actual 15% to 20% shave in DPS overall from what it is now, while keeping the game mechanics generally similar to how they work now, with small adjustments here or there.

>

> They did not ask for like a -50% reduction in damage output and the destruction of certain weapon kits because they have too many hard CCs on them. Have you not sat and compressed the totality of the effects that are going to happen here? First you have a -33% being applied to all non hard CC weapon coefficients. Then you have a MASSIVE reduction in quickness access and quickness uptime from the removal of conc based amulets and the nerfing of conc based runes, which is a HUGE hit to the actual "damage per second" that will be possible during bursting or even brawling on a node. And then you have all hard CCs going to 0 damage output. So some weapon kits & classes who are largely designed around hard CCs, will quite seriously be looking -50% or greater chops in their damage output compared to what it is now. And that's not even to mention the increase in cool down timers...

>

> Due to this enormous large decrease in damage output, and increase in cool downs of important skills, the post patch meta will move as slowly as a bunker meta without needing to be a bunker meta.

>

> That is not exactly what I asked for. Is that what you asked for?

>

>

>

>

 

You can't think of this update in the traditional way that the standard balance patches have gone. Cmc even said in the first post that this is **not** a traditional balance patch.

 

> This patch is unusual in that it’s more about establishing a new paradigm than it is a regular balance update, and the result is a giant set of changes.

 

This isn't meant as a patch that goes "Here, this is a fix for these traits and these skills. Ah and yes this particular skill was overperforming." There is *some* of that, but its minimal compared to the sweeping changes made across the board to damage, healing, boon duration and some trait reworks. The only thing that was really a "balance" patch were the reworks and such in the Global changes, and those are likely tooled for the update specifically.

 

I keep saying it because it doesn't seem to be really sticking with people. The entire point of the patch was to just do a wide sweep across skills and traits so they can create a baseline to then work from going forward.

 

Think of it like gutting a room in a house, breaking down even the studs in the walls, and then setting new ones because the old ones were busted, broken and rotting away. Once you do that **then** you can move forward in doing the room over. Will it be better? Who knows, that all depends on the work put into it.

[ParanoidKami.2867]

> @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> After HoT we got a bunker meta, then you spent years to buff damage and constantly state you want the combat to feel "deadly", you removed all the bunker amulets, gave people lots of stab. Now you scale the damage/healing back to make us hit like wet noodles again? You make CC skills do no damage? This isn't wow where we have 30 buttons to jerk around with...Take a look at the warriors hammer.

> Out of 6 skills on that weapon 3 will do no damage...is it just me or it feels like you need to put this on a public test server before you make such a huge step backwards?

 

People who rely too heavily on high damage or skills on rotation to carry them will have a hard time. Just learn how to play the game and you'll be fine.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

>

> I keep saying it because it doesn't seem to be really sticking with people. The entire point of the patch was to just do a wide sweep across skills and traits so they can create a baseline to then work from going forward.

>

> Think of it like gutting a room in a house, breaking down even the studs in the walls, and then setting new ones because the old ones were busted, broken and rotting away. Once you do that **then** you can move forward in doing the room over. Will it be better? Who knows, that all depends on the work put into it.

 

Yup, I get that 100% and I agree with it.

 

But I do not agree at all with the 0 damage on hard CCs decision, damn well knowing that it's going to have seriously lopsided effects, and then leaving the patching in a state of a mess like that, while we all wait several months for the next step. <- As an 8 year old consumer I'm really just getting tired of that. If a development is worth doing, it's worth doing right, and no one is going to change my mind on that.

 

Example of why I don't like the .001 hard CC decision:

 

* 0 damage hard CCs will greatly harm the Warrior class because it depends on the damage output from all of the hard CCs it has.

* 0 damage hard CCs will barely effect a Thief at all, because all of its CCs dealt no damage to begin with, such as Head Shot or Basilisk or Daze as a traited effect that tags onto the Mug damage.

* Result? One class receiving waaaay more damage nerfs than the other, to the point that the Thief in application will have roughly twice the damage output of the Warrior, because his CCs will still deal damage, whereas when the Warrior needs to use a CC, it will deal none.

 

I have no idea how any of you can find an argument in what is wrong with that ^

 

In my opinion, a safer "baseline" approach for a new foundation to build on, would be to lower those hard CC coefficients to something more like .25, and not .001.

[Amaranthe.3578]

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > @"Ysmir.4986" said:

> > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > > After HoT we got a bunker meta, then you spent years to buff damage and constantly state you want the combat to feel "deadly", you removed all the bunker amulets, gave people lots of stab. Now you scale the damage/healing back to make us hit like wet noodles again? You make CC skills do no damage? This isn't wow where we have 30 buttons to jerk around with...Take a look at the warriors hammer.

> > > > Out of 6 skills on that weapon 3 will do no damage...is it just me or it feels like you need to put this on a public test server before you make such a huge step backwards?

> > >

> > > This is what people wanted for a long time, complete shave of the current power creep.

> >

> > No, that's not what people asked for at all.

> >

> > When they asked for a revert in power creep, most people were imaging maybe an actual 15% to 20% shave in DPS overall from what it is now, while keeping the game mechanics generally similar to how they work now, with small adjustments here or there.

> >

> > They did not ask for like a -50% reduction in damage output and the destruction of certain weapon kits because they have too many hard CCs on them. Have you not sat and compressed the totality of the effects that are going to happen here? First you have a -33% being applied to all non hard CC weapon coefficients. Then you have a MASSIVE reduction in quickness access and quickness uptime from the removal of conc based amulets and the nerfing of conc based runes, which is a HUGE hit to the actual "damage per second" that will be possible during bursting or even brawling on a node. And then you have all hard CCs going to 0 damage output. So some weapon kits & classes who are largely designed around hard CCs, will quite seriously be looking -50% or greater chops in their damage output compared to what it is now. And that's not even to mention the increase in cool down timers...

> >

> > Due to this enormous large decrease in damage output, and increase in cool downs of important skills, the post patch meta will move as slowly as a bunker meta without needing to be a bunker meta.

> >

> > That is not exactly what I asked for. Is that what you asked for?

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> You can't think of this update in the traditional way that the standard balance patches have gone. Cmc even said in the first post that this is **not** a traditional balance patch.

>

> > This patch is unusual in that it’s more about establishing a new paradigm than it is a regular balance update, and the result is a giant set of changes.

>

> This isn't meant as a patch that goes "Here, this is a fix for these traits and these skills. Ah and yes this particular skill was overperforming." There is *some* of that, but its minimal compared to the sweeping changes made across the board to damage, healing, boon duration and some trait reworks. The only thing that was really a "balance" patch were the reworks and such in the Global changes, and those are likely tooled for the update specifically.

>

> I keep saying it because it doesn't seem to be really sticking with people. The entire point of the patch was to just do a wide sweep across skills and traits so they can create a baseline to then work from going forward.

>

> Think of it like gutting a room in a house, breaking down even the studs in the walls, and then setting new ones because the old ones were busted, broken and rotting away. Once you do that **then** you can move forward in doing the room over. Will it be better? Who knows, that all depends on the work put into it.

 

Sounds like the kind of thing you wanna test on a PTR instead of releasing it KNOWING it's gonna be a mess and require a lot of additional work.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> >

> > I keep saying it because it doesn't seem to be really sticking with people. The entire point of the patch was to just do a wide sweep across skills and traits so they can create a baseline to then work from going forward.

> >

> > Think of it like gutting a room in a house, breaking down even the studs in the walls, and then setting new ones because the old ones were busted, broken and rotting away. Once you do that **then** you can move forward in doing the room over. Will it be better? Who knows, that all depends on the work put into it.

>

> Yup, I get that 100% and I agree with it.

>

> But I do not agree at all with the 0 damage on hard CCs decision, kitten well knowing that it's going to have seriously lopsided effects, and then leaving the patching in a state of a mess like that, while we all wait several months for the next step. <- As an 8 year old consumer I'm really just getting tired of that. If a development is worth doing, it's worth doing right, and no one is going to change my mind on that.

>

> Example of why I don't like the .001 hard CC decision:

>

> * 0 damage hard CCs will greatly harm the Warrior class because it depends on the damage output from all of the hard CCs it has.

> * 0 damage hard CCs will barely effect a Thief at all, because all of its CCs dealt no damage to begin with, such as Head Shot or Basilisk or Daze as a traited effect that tags onto the Mug damage.

> * Result? One class receiving waaaay more damage nerfs than the other, to the point that the Thief in application will have roughly twice the damage output of the Warrior, because his CCs will still deal damage, whereas when the Warrior needs to use a CC, it will deal none.

>

> I have no idea how any of you can find an argument in what is wrong with that ^

>

> In my opinion, a safer "baseline" approach for a new foundation to build on, would be to lower those hard CC coefficients to something more like .25, and not .001.

 

Its possible those coefficients could still see some increases, or at the very least Hammer could see a rework on Warrior since 60% of its skills now deal 0 damage. That is a concern, like I said I play Warrior, but its a situation where we kind of have to wait and see how things play out after the patch. Maybe something to offset the damage changes on Hammer would be to speed up activation time, or add some more of that chaining concept to them. Maybe Hammer 3 will deal X% more damage if the target is already affected by a Knockdown. I don't know, we don't know the effect it will have quite yet until we get our hands on the changes in the patch.

 

Thief definitely needs some looking at, but so doesn't immob spam potential on DE as well as Druid because none of that was touched. Along with Holo still having 15% Damage Reduction while in Forge mode, pair that with their Protection which didn't really get touched and Barrier which also saw no attention other than an increase in it on Corona Burst to offset the removal of the Stability. There are definitely things that will be problematic after the patch, but we have to see how things will play out and adjust and learn and give feedback. I see that you're doing that quite a bit, but it just feels like it has an air of "This update should have fixed things" and thats not what it is.

 

Its all rough, and it needed to be a rough patch for anything meaningful to happen with this games PvP balance. This is all exactly what I wanted to see out of it, I wanted ANet to take a bat to things. Do it. Bring it. Let it all **burn**. That way maybe, in an ideal world, something better can actually rise out of those ashes of the shitstorm that we've had for **years**.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

Apologies, this is a double post.

 

> @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > @"Ysmir.4986" said:

> > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > > > After HoT we got a bunker meta, then you spent years to buff damage and constantly state you want the combat to feel "deadly", you removed all the bunker amulets, gave people lots of stab. Now you scale the damage/healing back to make us hit like wet noodles again? You make CC skills do no damage? This isn't wow where we have 30 buttons to jerk around with...Take a look at the warriors hammer.

> > > > > Out of 6 skills on that weapon 3 will do no damage...is it just me or it feels like you need to put this on a public test server before you make such a huge step backwards?

> > > >

> > > > This is what people wanted for a long time, complete shave of the current power creep.

> > >

> > > No, that's not what people asked for at all.

> > >

> > > When they asked for a revert in power creep, most people were imaging maybe an actual 15% to 20% shave in DPS overall from what it is now, while keeping the game mechanics generally similar to how they work now, with small adjustments here or there.

> > >

> > > They did not ask for like a -50% reduction in damage output and the destruction of certain weapon kits because they have too many hard CCs on them. Have you not sat and compressed the totality of the effects that are going to happen here? First you have a -33% being applied to all non hard CC weapon coefficients. Then you have a MASSIVE reduction in quickness access and quickness uptime from the removal of conc based amulets and the nerfing of conc based runes, which is a HUGE hit to the actual "damage per second" that will be possible during bursting or even brawling on a node. And then you have all hard CCs going to 0 damage output. So some weapon kits & classes who are largely designed around hard CCs, will quite seriously be looking -50% or greater chops in their damage output compared to what it is now. And that's not even to mention the increase in cool down timers...

> > >

> > > Due to this enormous large decrease in damage output, and increase in cool downs of important skills, the post patch meta will move as slowly as a bunker meta without needing to be a bunker meta.

> > >

> > > That is not exactly what I asked for. Is that what you asked for?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > You can't think of this update in the traditional way that the standard balance patches have gone. Cmc even said in the first post that this is **not** a traditional balance patch.

> >

> > > This patch is unusual in that it’s more about establishing a new paradigm than it is a regular balance update, and the result is a giant set of changes.

> >

> > This isn't meant as a patch that goes "Here, this is a fix for these traits and these skills. Ah and yes this particular skill was overperforming." There is *some* of that, but its minimal compared to the sweeping changes made across the board to damage, healing, boon duration and some trait reworks. The only thing that was really a "balance" patch were the reworks and such in the Global changes, and those are likely tooled for the update specifically.

> >

> > I keep saying it because it doesn't seem to be really sticking with people. The entire point of the patch was to just do a wide sweep across skills and traits so they can create a baseline to then work from going forward.

> >

> > Think of it like gutting a room in a house, breaking down even the studs in the walls, and then setting new ones because the old ones were busted, broken and rotting away. Once you do that **then** you can move forward in doing the room over. Will it be better? Who knows, that all depends on the work put into it.

>

> Sounds like the kind of thing you wanna test on a PTR instead of releasing it KNOWING it's gonna be a mess and require a lot of additional work.

 

Yeah, you're right. I'll copy paste something I posted elsewhere right here.

 

"Unfortunately this is how they need to approach this particular problem with passive traits, and the wider ranging problems in balance for that matter, because there is no Public Test Server for these kinds of things to be tested long term on. I have asked an ANet dev about it before, it is apparently not feasible due to tech constraints they face so this is how this stuff needs to be tested. On the live servers by the community.

 

Is it unfortunate? Yeah, probably. Would it be better if there was a Public Test Server for such things? Absolutely. However that is not the reality of the situation so we have to try to make the best of it and do our best to help ANet make sure balance goes in the right direction from the point of patch release going forward.

 

Legitimately people probably wouldn't be having what I personally equate to emotionally charged breakdowns over these changes if this was something released on a Public Test Server that we had access to and it was being tested long term on it. Unfortunately we have to accept the fact that we don't have that so tough luck, this is how this needs to happen. People just need to be objective, stop flailing wildly like the world is ending, and give some constructive feedback on things when the patch goes live."

[SeikeNz.3526]

if warriors players are crying that means it's a good patch and change

you want to cc while doing high dmg? just change your utility

now you have to play strategically and not spammy

[Tayga.3192]

Since complaints only give a few examples,

 

After the patch, rework hammer and mace and we are good to go.

[kratan.4619]

Just need to cleanse the confusion off you.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Ysmir.4986" said:

> > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > After HoT we got a bunker meta, then you spent years to buff damage and constantly state you want the combat to feel "deadly", you removed all the bunker amulets, gave people lots of stab. Now you scale the damage/healing back to make us hit like wet noodles again? You make CC skills do no damage? This isn't wow where we have 30 buttons to jerk around with...Take a look at the warriors hammer.

> > Out of 6 skills on that weapon 3 will do no damage...is it just me or it feels like you need to put this on a public test server before you make such a huge step backwards?

>

> This is what people wanted for a long time, complete shave of the current power creep. Game is at a point where everyone can do damage so quickly, the line is blurred between a good player who knows his rotations and one shot monkey that pushes 2 buttons.

>

> Bring it on.

 

This really doesn't seem like a plausible argument to me. When you fight 1v1, how long does it typically take you to gauge the skill level of your opponent and adjust your tactics? I mean, sometimes you can tell within the first couple of moves whether you need to play chess or just go for the kill, right? Are you really dying to a noob's opener? I mean, maybe 1-shot backstab build vs. full glass? But the idea that there is some pervasive meta wherein noobs kill skilled players by pressing 2 buttons? I'm just not seeing it.

 

And that wouldn't necessarily be a problem, except here we are turning the world on its head to address a problem that I'm not convinced is actually a problem. I _like_ the way PvP feels currently. I might like it after the changes, too, but the fact is that I don't know! And I'm thinking that if it ain't broke, don't fix it? I mean, I'd personally rather keep combat as it is because it feels fantastic right now. Then put those resources toward things I would actually like. For instance, I would kill for a capture the flag PvP game!

[Dadnir.5038]

Some people complain about "Powercreep".

Some clueless people thought that "powercreep" meant that damage increased.

The idea that damage were "powercrept" spread.

ANet nerf damage and leave the "powercreep" as it is.

 

The point is that professions have been able to one shot other profession since release of the game. What they weren't able to do was to have high survivability at the same time. So, no damage weren't "powercrept", the access to damage was. The patch don't adress it.

 

That said, it put player's builds to a more or less even level of power, reducing the possibilities of being crushed by a direct counter build, so some players might end up being happy.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> Some people complain about "Powercreep".

> Some clueless people thought that "powercreep" meant that damage increased.

> The idea that damage were "powercrept" spread.

> ANet nerf damage and leave the "powercreep" as it is.

>

> The point is that professions have been able to one shot other profession since release of the game. What they weren't able to do was to have high survivability at the same time. So, no damage weren't "powercrept", the access to damage was. The patch don't adress it.

>

> That said, it put player's builds to a more or less even level of power, reducing the possibilities of being crushed by a direct counter build, so some players might end up being happy.

 

I suppose players were incurring 30k ranged attacks and single strikes back in the days of core then?

 

I'm more remembering a time when 7k - 8k was a big backstab.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > Some people complain about "Powercreep".

> > Some clueless people thought that "powercreep" meant that damage increased.

> > The idea that damage were "powercrept" spread.

> > ANet nerf damage and leave the "powercreep" as it is.

> >

> > The point is that professions have been able to one shot other profession since release of the game. What they weren't able to do was to have high survivability at the same time. So, no damage weren't "powercrept", the access to damage was. The patch don't adress it.

> >

> > That said, it put player's builds to a more or less even level of power, reducing the possibilities of being crushed by a direct counter build, so some players might end up being happy.

>

> I suppose players were incurring 30k ranged attacks and single strikes back in the days of core then?

>

> I'm more remembering a time when 7k - 8k was a big backstab.

 

I recall taking quite a few 21 to 25k backstab in 2013 and that was as a soldier stats necromancer. The mesmer shattercat build was also quite painful to face. I had also a one trick pony build on necromancer with which I had quite the burst against isolated foes (full zerk, focus#5, focus#4, shroud, shrd#2, AA = killing anything in 1.5 seconds). Back in the days, before ANet nerfed the ranger's pet damage in favor of survivability (Yeah I shed a tear at that time) I also had quite a lot of fun one shoting thiefs with birds, oh and there was also the build making use of the stealthy cat (nice as well). There was also this guy with it's warrior evicerate build that was reaping lives at an isane rate... etc.

 

So yeah, being one shot (or having the feeling of being one shot) was already pretty common back in the day.

 

Since then might (the boon) have been put everywhere, so yeah there was a feeling of more damage output. But that come from how cheap might is (and boons in general), nothing more.

 

NB.: The 7-8k wasn't backstab in 2013, it was the _hearthseeker_ spam. Now barely anyone use HS for anything else than stealth but back in the day it was spamed for damage. Does it refresh your memory? It should. I think there was even a bitter elementalist that shot a video of him deleting it's character and creating a thief because he was constantly one shot at launch.

[Bassdeff.1895]

Think of this patch as a reset button to undo all the shit that has been done over the years and create a foundation to which things can be balanced on going forward. I'm especially glad that they finally split all 3 game modes, something that should have been done in 2012.