Balance Feedback for Devs - Can we talk about the new deflecting shot?

[Derm.4932]

 

* Deflecting Shot: This skill now knocks back and its animation has been slowed down so the arrow is fired at 740ms (up from 280 ms). Reduced power coefficient from 1.8 to 0.01 in PvP and WvW.

 

There are 3 big changes here, but I'm only gonna focus on 2:

 

First, the skill now knocks back. I think that most people who have used LB can agree that this is a great, really fantastic change that many have asked for over the years(in fact, I would argue that it was the most requested change for DH LB). If there was ever a time to make this change, its now, especially considering the changes to hard CC damage, which would wouldn't make sense for a skill that has optional CC. They clearly listened to feedback here, and I think that is deserving of appreciation.

 

But more importantly, the cast time of the skill has now been almost trippled to .75s. I think most people will glance over this, after all, .75s is is a fairly common cast time for most skills. The problem though is LB3 is really not like most skills. The two big things that make LB3 differ from other projectiles are that

A ) It has a slow projectile(I measured it to be approx 900 units per sec)

B ) It is a manually aimed projectile

 

Since it's a manually aimed projectile, that means that it's target is decided at the beginning of a cast, rather than the end. The implications of this are that you have to predict an enemy's position and aim at where you think they will be. This is fairly typical of most AoEs/aimed skills, but LB3 is also a projectile, so it has travel time(quite slow travel time at that) and it also has a very small radius compared to typical AoEs. A lot of DHs have gotten really good at landing this skill, but even those who are really good at it miss, especially at further ranges mainly because the fast paced nature of the game often times means predicting an enemy's movement such that you can make the shot can be a crapshoot. Despite that, LB3 has become the bread and butter of competitive DH builds, both because of it's impact and relatively high skill ceiling. Landing that 1000+ range LB3 against moving players can be one of the most satisfying things in pvp.

 

Which brings us to the current change that increases cast time from .25s to .75s. This drastically increases the delay in which you have to predict an enemy's movement(>2s at max range). It also gives the enemy a lot more time to react(someone at 600 range will have approx 1.5s to avoid LB3, which can simply be done by changing movement direction or even by simply stopping movement and denying the DH's earlier prediction. Another thing to keep in mind, is that the movement of the DH itself will change the direction of LB3, since the target is set in stone at the beginning of the cast but the player can move around for a full .75s before the skill actually fires. The end result is that LB3 is going to feel ALOT clunkier on a weapon set that is historically very clunky due to roots on both LB2 and LB5. Previously, balance patches had made improvements to LB4's symbol by increasing velocity and removing aftercast which made the skill more smooth, less clunky, and most importantly more fun, which is all the more reason why I don't quite understand the reasoning behind this change. Instead of making LB3 feel more impactful or reasonable for it's new effects, this change is going to make Longbow a far clunkier and less fun weapon. My suggestion is to simply make the cast time .5s, which is the same cast time of Point Blank Shot and the newly changed Overcharged Shot. This will make it feel reasonable for it's newly added effect, while still being fun to use and retaining it's main drawback of being less likely to actually hit, compared to similar skills.

 

tl;dr please make the cast time of Deflecting Shot .5s, as opposed to .75s

 

@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048"

@"Cal Cohen.2358"

[Yasai.3549]

I think they are intentionally doing this so DH can't fire Deflecting Shot behind them when running.

 

 

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> I think they are intentionally doing this so DH can't fire Deflecting Shot behind them when running.

>

>

 

What would the changes have to do with this? As firing it backward will still be possible and one of the least effected, as it is the easiest shot to make with DS, as the person is running in a straight line after you, and from what I have read, the actual travel time will be faster, making rearward shots more effective.

 

What it does is makes it pretty hard to aim outside of point blank range, .75 is a long time in combat that you have to predict someones movement at range, it is hard enough as it is now. However, if the projectile changes are making it's travel speed faster, it should be more effective against people who are not paying attention, however those who do, will be able to see that long animation coming and just walk out of the way, no dodging needed. More or less I see it becoming more and more a noob stomper skill that in upper levels of skill play will be mostly useless. However, the patch is not live yet and I think the judgments should wait until then for what effect it has on builds and play style.

[Derm.4932]

> and from what I have read, the actual travel time will be faster, making rearward shots more effective.

 

Any chance you can tell me where you read this? I searched the notes and couldn't find any mention of it. If true, that would definitely offset a bit of the delay.

 

 

[mes.4607]

@Cal Cohen.2358

[otto.5684]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> I think they are intentionally doing this so DH can't fire Deflecting Shot behind them when running.

>

>

 

Or use it at all in any PvP environment. This skill with 0.75 sec is useless even if it deal a fucking truck load of damage. Oh wait, it will deal zero damage. Fucking idiotic balance.

[LetoII.3782]

Has Anet _ever_ been on the guardian subsection?

I don't believe so

[quaniesan.8497]

These new numbers they threw at guardian obviously never went through any testing, and I will bet any on that. The result is simply unreasonably disastrous for even a starting point, even children can come up with better number for starter. This is likely the result of most dervs playing warriors and kept getting owned by guardians and here we suffer the vengeance. This is an example of "if it's not broken, don't fix it". I also don't like how they carelessly apply a 0.01 coeff for all hard CC skills. Not all hard CC skills are the same, each of them complements different set of skills sitting on their own unique skill bar, and yet Anet pulled a lazy one-size fit all treatment, rendering more a few builds and weapons completely unusable, Guardian's hammer comes to mind.

[Derm.4932]

The patch has come and gone and as I feared Deflecting Shot has been all but destroyed by this change. Its so easy to react to that even if you make a perfect prediction the chances of it landing are low. Its a shame because knockback as a standard on Deflecting Shot would have excited many people and given Longbow something it really needs, but none of it really matters if you can barely land it in the first place.

[Zeljius.9703]

I agree and disagree. Damage removal off of Deflecting shot was enough imo. We need that .25s cast time back. With the new changes and the incredibly slow travel time, its become an unrealistically challenging feat to even try to peg a player within 500 units with Deflecting shot. Literally all ANY player has to do is strafe even just a little left or right and you'll miss your shot.

 

Keep the knockback, revert the cast time.

 

Although I disagree with CC skills losing literally all their damage, if there has to be no damage on the skill then so be it.

But we NEED that .25s cast time. DH as things currently stand; at least DHs trying to use bow are sitting at the bottom of the roaming tier at the moment.

While Soulbeast and their longbow is chilling just fine being able to burst a player down from 1200 units away in a matter of a second and a half.

 

Super disappointing changes.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Zeljius.9703" said:

> While Soulbeast and their longbow is chilling just fine being able to burst a player down from ~~1200~~ 1500 units away in a matter of a second and a half.

 

Corrected that for you, though much anecdotal evidence exists to suggest it may be as much as 1800 units. I run Wall of Reflect as my big F U to Tower Rangers, though sadly it doesn't really work when they are on a tower (course, that's where Spear yoink + SoJ come in)

 

 

[Zeljius.9703]

@"Turkeyspit.3965" Yeah it definitely feels like 1800 units lmao

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Zeljius.9703" said:

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" Yeah it definitely feels like 1800 units lmao

 

At one point about a year ago, someone posted a video Deadeye vs. Ranger, Rifle vs. Longbow, and it was quite clear that while the Deadeye was 'out of range', the Ranger was easily able to ping away with the bow.

 

I keep hoping one day ANET will just end the trolling, and update the tooltip to say 1800 units :)