Balance Feedback for Dev's: Further considerations on changes to skills and traits.

[RUNICBLACK.7630]

These are just some personal observations being as there are so many changes coming soon that for most of it I'm going with a wait and see opinion but that being said there are a few things that either weren't touched on or were and again just from my personal viewpoint either a case of a missed opportunity or going in the wrong direction .

Hammer skills : Zealot's Embrace ?!? As has been said before by others why have it as a single target (yes it's piercing and can potentially hit 5 people in a row but none of our followup atttacks take advantage of that with exception of LB's True Shot)with a 1200 range and it's only a 2 second immobilize, and then we really don't have alot of ways to close with the target, possible changes bring the range down to 300 or 600 and make it a multiple target arc this way it syncs up to Mighty Blow ( this doesn't increase attacks damage etc it just makes more sense for the weapon ).

 

Staff: Symbol of Swiftness it is still completely counterintuitive in that you create a Symbol to give yourself Swiftness as your moving but you have stop and stand in it to gain anything greater than 4 seconds(and it is entirely possibly to not gain any Swiftness while passing thru if your timing is bad) This should give you at least 4 seconds (or higher) guaranteed irrespective of where the Symbol is placed(or if it is at least cast at your present location because presently you can cast at your location but before you receive any benefit your outside of the Symbol and receive nothing ) , again this in no way changes overall offensive damage just it's utility and it would make it on par with other classes speed buff weapon the Warhorn.

 

Focus: Shield of Wrath this skill while it does decent damage and is a blast finisher is still more controlled by your opponents than by the Guardian ( in the sense of blocks attacks versus doing damage) if this was changed so that it was triggerable not unlike the Guardian Shield skills than the Guardian would have the trade off decision of defensive versus offensive.

 

Torch: Zealot's Fire we still can't seem to get this skill to hit worth anything at any range etc.. So why not dump the Range and make it's effects Point Blank AOE(as a trade off for the lose of range give it an extra benefit of some kind maybe Unblockable or possible an extra Ammo charge just a thought).

 

Longbow: Deflecting Shot it's already been mentioned by others that changing the cast to 3/4 of a second is just to long for a skill that really needs to be directed , 1/2 second we could probably work with but 3/4 just makes it to easy to avoid and leaves the DH doing a obvious tell for to long.

Still to many LB skills rooting the DH , the DH needs greater mobility to really ever even bother to use the LB and while it would great to see more access to Swiftness or Quickness I doubt we will see those anytime soon .

 

Healing Skills : the adjustments for the various classes with regard to Cool Down and Healing Coefficient seems kind of uneven with some classes just getting CD increases and some getting hit with both CD's increases and Lowering the HC's but it's going to be hard to determine the impact until the patch is out.

 

Utilities:

Hallowed Ground vs Stand Your Ground: Ok some people really need to talk to each other, I understand bring SYG back down to 5 targets from 10 and even increasing its Cool Down but if the goal from previous patches was to increase the use of Hallowed Ground that just got shot in the foot with its Cool Down increase to 60 seconds if they had left it at 45 second players might have at least considered it (personal opinion it either needs Retaliation changed to something else like maybe Resistance(granted that maybe to powerful a possible lower key option could be either Protection or Fury) or possibly apply a Condition on foes like Vulnerability or Weakness instead of Retaliation (or in addition to Retaliation but I doubt Anet would go for it).

 

Bow of Truth: I'm not sure how badly this got dropped but when they cut the healing coefficient from .15 to .05 I suspect this skills useful days are numbered.

 

Hammer of Wisdom: being it's only really use now is for CC (assuming you can land a hit , I've never had great luck in a PvP situation, I've had better odds with SoJ for some reason) there really isn't any reason for this skill to have one less Ammo charge than the Sword and the Shield (arguably depending on how much the Bow of Truth has been weaken on it's healing capabilities the same could be said for the Bow)

 

Dragon's Maw: got nuked pretty sure I will not be bothering with that skill anytime soon.

 

Wrath of Justice: Lesser Signet of Wrath : Being as the Immobilize duration was dropped from 3 seconds to 1 second could we possible see the Cool Down dropped also so we might see it being more available when Virtue of Justice active is triggered(which can happen much more often than every 25 seconds)

 

Everything is just matter of wait and see how is in actually game play .

Granted this is just my viewpoint.

P.S. As a side thought or more accurately a question there are some Grand Master Guardian traits that have been languishing for a while and I was wondering if anybody actually ever uses them and for what.

Radiance: Prefect Inscriptions:not alot of call for Signets presently that I've seen outside of Bane Sigil in Raid or Frac's or maybe Mercy and Courage on some team stuff but it still does make very useful compared to the other choices.

Valor:Tenacious Defense: One second reduction on Courage Cool Down for ever block from Aegis when your looking at anywhere from 45 to 75 seconds feels ridiculously underwhelming

Honor : Pure of Voice: Shouts while used(Stand Your Ground as a case in point) are not at the forefront as far usage that I've seen and Cleansing only one Condition per Shout isn't really effective presently when you have other options.

Virtues: Battle Presence: I never used it and even in team oriented activities it feels very lackluster.

Thank you for any input or you opinions.

 

 

[Arken.3725]

Remember when we had a similar discussion back in May of '19 about weapons? Good times.

 

I love that you're putting in effort toward's something like this, the passion is flowing through you. However, and this isn't mean to be rude but don't waste your breathe. You've seen the countless thread's made by myself and others that were largely ignored.

 

Anyway man, appreciate the effort.

 

 

[otto.5684]

Honestly, this patch has so much garbage that going through one by one is counter intuitive. Many of the changes are so mind baffling. DS is surely the most offensive, but is not the only.

 

Just a note for the heals. Mantra and purification will remain solid. Purification is barely nerfed. On the other hand, LoW the increased duration kills it completely. The heal signet is garbage on live. With extra 5 sec will remain so.

 

I do not see any game play path for core, LB or hammer. Same for for most utilities. Stand your ground is probably the only none mantra, mediation and trap that was ever used In sPvP. 45 sec? Not anymore.

[RUNICBLACK.7630]

> @"Arken.3725" said:

> I love that you're putting in effort toward's something like this, the passion is flowing through you. However, and this isn't mean to be rude but don't waste your breathe. You've seen the countless thread's made by myself and others that were largely ignored.

>

> Anyway man, appreciate the effort.

>

>

No problem this was more of intellectual curiosity effort anyway and seeing if anybody else was interested in discussing it and honestly my expectations weren't that high so thank you for responding..

 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

stand your ground and hammer 2 changes are horrid and shouldn't go thru.

[RUNICBLACK.7630]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> Honestly, this patch has so much garbage that going through one by one is counter intuitive. Many of the changes are so mind baffling. DS is surely the most offensive, but is not the only.

>

I get where your coming from but as said in my post to Arken this more of an exercise in curiousity than anything else but as I said thank you for responding

[RUNICBLACK.7630]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> stand your ground and hammer 2 changes are horrid and shouldn't go thru.

 

While I'm not what I would call thrilled with some of the various changes , the fact that so many of the same caliber of changes are happening across the board to all the classes leads to a wait an see attitude. On Stand Your Ground the Cool Down increase I find inconvenient but not that problematic and with regard to dropping the number of allies effected from 10 to 5 to be honest in my personal opinion outside of Raids I don't think having something effect over 5 individuals should not even be available and maybe not even there but that is just my viewpoint. Hammer: Mighty Blow ok honestly I do think jumping the Cool Down from 4 to 10 seconds is a pretty extreme (6 or even an 8 sec would have been easier to accept) but to be fair it isn't unprecedented already on skills presently or other skills in this patch (for reference most number 2 skills CD are between 5 to 8 seconds but there already several number 2 skills already with a CD of 10 and Rev's Coalesence of Ruin is getting the same change to it's Cool Down) . While don't entirely agree with your opinion I do appreciate your viewpoint and thanks for responding.

[otto.5684]

> @"RUNICBLACK.7630" said:

> > @"otto.5684" said:

> > Honestly, this patch has so much garbage that going through one by one is counter intuitive. Many of the changes are so mind baffling. DS is surely the most offensive, but is not the only.

> >

> I get where your coming from but as said in my post to Arken this more of an exercise in curiousity than anything else but as I said thank you for responding

 

Appreciate the effort you put man. To me the patch is kinda the end of sPvP. It will slow, bunkerish and will take month to fix the horrendous balance. There is clearly little to no thought put in balancing individual skills and traits. Just look at the 5 min CD on passive CD and no damage on any skill that can CC. Zero thought or effort is being put in here.

 

This also means that years and years of effort put to balancing PvP will be demolished.

 

I am just going to stick to PvE for now. The virtue damage change seems interesting, depending on duration and intensity. We could see some core power builds. Buff to stoic demeanor puts it in range of being viable. A buff to LB too. A buff to mace symbol cast time and hammer damage all skills, and we can have guardian PvE viability and diversity at the best point ever.

 

[Gwaihir.1745]

Yeah the staff symbol has never made sense and somehow it made it through the staff rework.

[Fashion Mage.3712]

> @"Gwaihir.1745" said:

> Yeah the staff symbol has never made sense and somehow it made it through the staff rework.

 

Lol, it still has the icon of a shield from back in beta(?) when it was symbol of protection.

[crazyhusky.2985]

Can we get some retaliation on the Heavy light trait. if only for PvE only.

"Grants stability and retaliation whenever you disable an enemy. You additionally deal increased damage to disabled foes."

It does have to compete with the "Big game Hunter" trait in terms usefulness and damage, I feel this trait won't be used much otherwise, it needs something unique and good on it to make it stand out, it is a Grandmaster trait after all.

 

I say this from a Raid/Fractal point of view.

 

For ages now cthey've been expecting Dragonhunter's get the retaliation buff on it to deal damage for power builds.

But Dragonhunter DOESN'T actually have a way within the elite spec to get retaliation on itself.

The only weapon we can use to get retaliation is Greatsword. I spend most of my time using a Greatsword because its only way to deal a lot of damage.

I need all my Utility skills are all needed to damge foes, so its not option switch them out.

 

They slightly buffed Guardian's sword recently for PvE but its still not appealing to most players, like myself I still use scepter over Sword in PvE.

If they put retaliation into that trait for PvE only, it would allow Dragonhunter's to get some retaliation from sword 2 (Symbol of Blades) as Blinding a foe is counted as disabling it, Therefore Dragonhunter will have a way to upkeep its retaliation duration outside using Greatsword.

Not every Fractal group will have some way of giving retaliation as only really Power Gaurdians need it, so most you have provide your own as a Dragonhunter which is rather limited.

 

Dragonhunter's really do need someway of getting retaliation within it's traitline or its Utility skills.

They aren't going to shove retaliation onto natively onto sword to make more useful for Dragonhunter's in PvE so why not make it a DH only thing.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"crazyhusky.2985" said:

> Can we get some retaliation on the Heavy light trait. if only for PvE only.

> "Grants stability and retaliation whenever you disable an enemy. You additionally deal increased damage to disabled foes."

> It does have to compete with the "Big game Hunter" trait in terms usefulness and damage, I feel this trait won't be used much otherwise, it needs something unique and good on it to make it stand out, it is a Grandmaster trait after all.

>

> I say this from a Raid/Fractal point of view.

>

> For ages now cthey've been expecting Dragonhunter's get the retaliation buff on it to deal damage for power builds.

> But Dragonhunter DOESN'T actually have a way within the elite spec to get retaliation on itself.

> The only weapon we can use to get retaliation is Greatsword. I spend most of my time using a Greatsword because its only way to deal a lot of damage.

> I need all my Utility skills are all needed to damge foes, so its not option switch them out.

>

> They slightly buffed Guardian's sword recently for PvE but its still not appealing to most players, like myself I still use scepter over Sword in PvE.

> If they put retaliation into that trait for PvE only, it would allow Dragonhunter's to get some retaliation from sword 2 (Symbol of Blades) as Blinding a foe is counted as disabling it, Therefore Dragonhunter will have a way to upkeep its retaliation duration outside using Greatsword.

> Not every Fractal group will have some way of giving retaliation as only really Power Gaurdians need it, so most you have provide your own as a Dragonhunter which is rather limited.

>

> Dragonhunter's really do need someway of getting retaliation within it's traitline or its Utility skills.

> They aren't going to shove retaliation onto natively onto sword to make more useful for Dragonhunter's in PvE so why not make it a DH only thing.

 

They should just modify a trait like Zealot's Speed to grant retaliation when standing on any Guardian symbol, then remove the Retaliation from Symbol of Wrath and replace it with burning or something.

[RUNICBLACK.7630]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> They should just modify a trait like Zealot's Speed to grant retaliation when standing on any Guardian symbol, then remove the Retaliation from Symbol of Wrath and replace it with burning or something.

 

That would be really helpful. While I'm not sure if they would go for it, but an interesting option to replace Retaliation on Symbol of Wrath would be Taunt in that while it doesn't do any damage by itself it would help keep opponents close while Great Sword 5 is in effect and obviously it is a CC so you'll the benefit from those traits that proc when you disable a opponent also( Glacial Heart, Stoic Demeanor, and the new change to Heavy Light). Now obviously if they did change it to Taunt we would also see them drastically reduce the Symbols damage coefficient like they have to must if not all of the skills that have a CC component, this of course would change the dynamic of Great Sword weapon play in the game significantly but depending on how everything worked out it could still be interesting.

[crazyhusky.2985]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"crazyhusky.2985" said:

> > Can we get some retaliation on the Heavy light trait. if only for PvE only.

> > "Grants stability and retaliation whenever you disable an enemy. You additionally deal increased damage to disabled foes."

> > It does have to compete with the "Big game Hunter" trait in terms usefulness and damage, I feel this trait won't be used much otherwise, it needs something unique and good on it to make it stand out, it is a Grandmaster trait after all.

> >

> > I say this from a Raid/Fractal point of view.

> >

> > For ages now cthey've been expecting Dragonhunter's get the retaliation buff on it to deal damage for power builds.

> > But Dragonhunter DOESN'T actually have a way within the elite spec to get retaliation on itself.

> > The only weapon we can use to get retaliation is Greatsword. I spend most of my time using a Greatsword because its only way to deal a lot of damage.

> > I need all my Utility skills are all needed to damge foes, so its not option switch them out.

> >

> > They slightly buffed Guardian's sword recently for PvE but its still not appealing to most players, like myself I still use scepter over Sword in PvE.

> > If they put retaliation into that trait for PvE only, it would allow Dragonhunter's to get some retaliation from sword 2 (Symbol of Blades) as Blinding a foe is counted as disabling it, Therefore Dragonhunter will have a way to upkeep its retaliation duration outside using Greatsword.

> > Not every Fractal group will have some way of giving retaliation as only really Power Gaurdians need it, so most you have provide your own as a Dragonhunter which is rather limited.

> >

> > Dragonhunter's really do need someway of getting retaliation within it's traitline or its Utility skills.

> > They aren't going to shove retaliation onto natively onto sword to make more useful for Dragonhunter's in PvE so why not make it a DH only thing.

>

> They should just modify a trait like Zealot's Speed to grant retaliation when standing on any Guardian symbol, then remove the Retaliation from Symbol of Wrath and replace it with burning or something.

 

This is even better, but I was thinking for it to be a Dragonhunter ONLY thing.

Buffing Base Guardian would just make it shine more than DH then it already does outside PvE and potentially make Firebrand power builds viable for raids.

We need to give Dragonhunter more tools or update it to make more viable for other modes too. Right outside of PvE DH isn't used much.

I think Pure of Sight trait would be suitable for it. But be renamed to "Vision of Retribution"

**"Deal bonus damage based on your distance to the enemy. While standing in Symbols , they give you retaliation and you deal extra bonus damage"**

 

I say keep the retaliation on Greatsword But if want to replace the retaliation on it, then they should replace the retaliation with Quickness. I mean you're spinning and its called the symbol of wrath so, it needs to give an offensive buff like Quickness or Fury. But we have symbols that give fury already so it has to be a boon that isnt in use already.

Remember all Symbols give 1 boon, so if you take the retaliation off of Greatsword 4, you need to put another boon in its place so it still gives a boon. [LINK](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Symbol)

Quickness, Alacrity and Resistance are the only booons not used by symbols. I'd rather take Quickness on my GS as it can help out with allies overall DPS.

Alacrity and Resistance don't suit the greatsword. Also having Alacrity on symbol might be a little OP.